Since she getting a new writer I just have to know is Azzarello's run terrible or good? Personally I like all ever issues was connected and could be use to make a show or a trilogy, but I haven't read every single issue and keep getting mix reviews on his work.

It's a great story but not a good tribute to Wonder Woman and the Amazons. If you love them like I do you'll find a few things wrong with it. She's a bit like Zola's german shepherd but Chiang draws everything nicely so I care a little bit less.

It was more character driven than plot driven for me and i liked that. It was ok for me nice little intro into the new universe.

It really is an awesome lore to her origins and how things work on her greek side of the world. However the series did make her seem pretty disconnected to everything outside her family problems.

All seem to be more helpful to her, since past renditions didn't really make her standout. This was the first time I felt like she wasnt a female superman, but her own character. Of course there are some problems with how all this was going down, but it made it possible for her to really standout in sm/ww

Its awesome, best run in a long while.

I think the last years worth of comics were pretty good where he actually starts getting Diana's personality right. Brings around some of the more questionable story developments early on but not all of them. Of course those first two years worth of comics seemed dragged out way to much, were filled with things that seemed to serve no purpose other then to troll fans, and Diana herself had the personality of a naive piece of toast. It's almost hard to believe that it was the same writer all the way through.

She stood out in sm/ww as the worst incarnation of Wonder Woman I have ever seen. If you like sm/ww you don't like Wonder Woman, you don't like anything about the character. Everything I love and I think is unique about Wonder Woman was jettisoned and replaced by the polar opposite. I'm looking forward to seeing what Tomasi's got in store for us.

It's fabulous in many ways ... I find it bold, interesting and well written. It's a departure from what long time fans expect of WW. She's put in positions where she loses her composure and is more impulsive/reactionary in the earlier stages. She's got a quiet sense of self that the art gets across beautifully. The story is a classic and epic Greek myth.

BUT ... It's lingered for too long, I'm happy with it, but many fans have lost interest because it's taken so long to get to this point. We're still missing some key points of the backstory so we don't know as much about Diana as we'd like ... This affects other story lines such JL and SM/WW and has caused some poor depictions because she's not as tightly defined as some would like her to be.

The Amazons have been stripped of most of their culture and are more like the Perez Bana Mighdal Amazons rather than the Themiscaran Amazons.

I enjoy the changes, but many do not. I would suggest reading the whole thing from start to finish with no interruptions ... When the whole story is presented it's very powerful.

@csg_cl: Just stop it! The plot was boring and I didn't see anything special but WW getting her butt kicked on every panel of the series. Azz could have done a much better job and I give his run a 6/10. I'm glad that the Finches are taking over so they can actually use her right.

stop what? having a different opinion on the Azzarello run than you? That's clearly not going to happen. I've acknowledged that it's not perfect, but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to not like it because you find it boring.

I think it is really good.

It's more valid for people to tell you to stop continuously hating on one of the best things to happen to Wonder Woman in a long time. Plenty of the actual reasonable discussion on this topic and not the angry, spiteful nonsense that comes out of most posters in the WW forum indicates that this is a very good Wonder Woman run.

You mean like your long, bilious rants about Thor being temporarily replaced by a Woman. Wonder Woman's been replaced by a german shepherd, by a lobotomized Xena and even a complete manicured f*ckwit, none of whom knows how to win a fight. Yes we feel pretty hard done by, one would think you'd be familiar with the sensation

Seriously? If these are your thoughts on Wonder Woman, you completely miss the point and appeal of Azzarello's run. Sometimes, a writer who reinvents the character is much better than one who does same old, same old. Moreover, my rants on the female Thor are hardly 'bilious' when they have valid points and a logical foundation to them. Does that sound like bilious ranting to you? I didn't think so. I'm aware of what bilious means and it's not the word most would use to describe my posts.

I'm not familiar with the sensation because what Azzarello has done to Wonder Woman is vastly superior to what Marvel plan to do with the female Thor. They're completely different plans as one has just had her history, origin and world changed whereas the other is literally being changed. And the former is better than the latter.

I don't see how Wonder Woman has been replaced by "a german shepherd, by a lobotomized Xena and even a complete manicured f*ckwit, none of whom knows how to win a fight." I've read Azz's entire run and none of those things fit his depiction Wonder Woman at all. I don't see why you believe this nonsense nor do I see any valid criticisms against Azz's depiction of Wonder Woman. Just same old same old fanboyism and a poor attempt at the pot-kettle accusation that has no bearing on my opinions.

You word them beautifully Lvenger but your rants still reek of bile and fanboyism. I grew up watching a german show called Kommissar Rex or Rex, the police dog and Wonder Woman reminds me a bit of that german shepherd. She's adorable, likeable, she's loyal, imprudent and impetuous but not intelligent, like a dog. I don't remember seeing Wonder Woman make an autonomous decision that didn't backfire, whip up a strategy, there's no stream of consciousness so there's no indication that this Wonder Woman possesses the faculty of thinking. She also reminds me of Naruto in that she's got this christ-like ability to convert foes to friends but unlike Wonder Woman, Naruto found a lot more success in his exploits and he's won a few fights through the analysis of his opponent's abilites. I'm enjoying the story too but this Wonder Woman is a shadow of the Woman I used to be inspired by, her personality's only now coming together. I've chalked it up to Wonder Woman being young but now it's finally time to show that Wonder Woman's come a long way since the beginning of her journey!

@foamborn: This isn't even a coherent discussion of the character, just a blatant rant with no point and no rational thought process. You were presented with a coherent and well reasoned post and you jump,straight to "fanboyism" ... That's as sad as the consistent default to "it's sexist" or anything a reader doesn't like being arbitrarily "PIS". N52 WW has had some amazing moments and some not so great ones, but so did every other version of the character. If you dint like the character so be it, but don't attack a clearly intelligent post because you don't have an actual counterpoint.

Right, I'll let you be the judge of that because I know how much you enjoy judging

@foamborn: well I'm certainly more qualifies to judge these things than you.

Probably the best, most coherent run she's ever had, but it's apparently not for everyone.

No one's saying it's a bad, incoherent run, only that it's a bad portrayal of Wonder Woman and the Amazons which should be the heroes of the story.

I don't get why people think this is a bad portrayal of Diana, and I've been hearing it since issue 1. I get why people aren't thrilled about the Amazons, but atleast now people are talking about them instead of them just being there.

@justice_teen said:

Yeah, it's probably the best book in the New 52

Because Wonder Woman's not the sharpest tool in the toolbox to put it nicely and the only reason Azzarello reduced the Amazons to a barbaric tribe of women was so that he could reunite them with men which in and of itself is not a terrible idea but the whole thing about the Amazons is that they're a glorious society of Women that do fine without them. So we can all agree his run is enjoyable but it's not a good tribute to women.

@foamborn: So it's the 'Diana looks dumb' argument, no, I don't get that perception. The problem with the Amazons' glorious society was that they rarely did anything with it, so while its a fine idea it's not terribly useful beyond the idea of it.

Well I do and I'm not the only one so it can't be a coincidence. Wonder Woman didn't achieve anything independently apart from charming a few of her enemies into joining the gang which is lovely but not enough. I'm not terribly bummed by this because I know she's supposed to be quite young but now so close to the finale I think she needs to step up.

Are you saying that turning the Amazons into an archaic, stagnant tribe of unsophisticated women is somehow more "useful" than portraying them as a Glorious Society, something along the lines of Wakanda. Let's turn Krypton into the planet of the Apes and see how long before people freak the f*ck out.

The problem I have with the argument is that people who make it, often follows it up with: "She should have done something to solve Zola's problem!"

And my usual response/thought to that is: "What? What should she have done to solve this?"

Making them glorious and stagnant for the sake of it left them as disposable nobodies DC could slaughter and send away at their leisure and no one would actually care. It's the same with Wakanda, you care about Black Panther and maybe you care about Suri, the rest of the place is practically worthless save as something to occasionally fight over.

Is the change better for them? Honestly, I think the New 52 has actually been a boon to the Amazons. Before Flashpoint, in a DCU filled with magic and monsters, the Amazons were practically non-existent after they left for Paradise Island. After Flashpoint, they have a reputation for maintaining possibly the greatest army on Earth for countless years (Demon Knights), they were the jailers of countless monsters that threatened mankind (Batwoman) yes, they have practices that seem horrific to us, but I think DC has decided its time the Amazons become more than wallpaper.

They did worse, they blew it up. Hard to imagine when populated by the near god-like Kryptonians that could build rocket ships in their garage during sundays.

Never heard that one before. I for one think that the inclusion of some stream of consciousness could've helped fix it. Would've been nice to see Wonder Woman devise a strategy to beat an opponent, it would've been nice to see Wonder Woman defeat an opponent. I think she could've won the one against Hermes and given a better account of herself before eventually losing to the First Born. It's worse outside her eponymous book, it's not just that she loses abundantly, people just kind of swat her aside like they've got bigger fish to fry.

Anyway, what makes the new Amazons cool is how mean and vicious they are which has little or nothing to do with the primitiveness of their society. It's a little bit unsettling that people think the only way to make the Amazons and Wonder Woman nice and crisp is to bereave them of their magnificence.

I will point out you saw that kind of planning in issue 5 where they dragged Hera into an argument with Posidon and Hades in order to rob her of the pool she was using to track them.

I don't think I said it was their viciousness that made them cool for me. As for their magnificence; tell me, whats the point of them being shining exemplars when no one can or wants to use them for anything more than wallpaper? Whats the point of being perfect if it's never going to be used for anything?

Yeah Lennox came up with that plan. I meant that the new Amazons are cool because they've got a tinge of villainy as I think the Amazons should but killing babies was probably one step too far. I don't mind that personally, I was talking about them being portrayed as a backward, anachronistic tribe as opposed to a glorious, powerful nation.

@foamborn: So you want the cliche isolated utopian Paradise Island, ala Krypton, Atlantis, Wakanda, Asgard etc...

Yeah I do, the point of difference being that the Amazons despise the world of Men. Why should the Amazons be the retarded ones? Before there was Wakanda and Asgard, there was Themyscira.

Some of these people aren't even WW fans so what gives them the right to criticize us true fans for not liking her New 52 run.

@zhurong: get over yourself. I've been reading WW since 1978 and have seen more iterations and changes to her than I can count. A true fan embraces change and learns to enjoy it ... Not sit around b!tching that our character stagnates. I read back issues when I feel nostalgic and get excited to see what someone new can add to her ever evolving history. A real fan would understand that in order to continue she must evolve with the times and be made relevant to new audiences too.

@csg_cl: Azz is a great writer but he has turned WW into a joke. The story itself is very genius but he isn't writing her to her full capacity. Superman and Batman getting written like they supposed but I cant say the same for WW. Even fans are complaining about her lack of characterization and feats in the New 52. Perez and Simone establish a great and iconic Wonder Woman. My rants might be a bit too much but I really can't help it. The Finches already got her kicking Swamp Thing in the face. I can finally see she is going be push to her potential.

@zhurong: the same can be said of Perez when he relaunched her. Or Kanigher (who made the mistake of engaging with his detractors) or O'Neil or Simone ... The current writer will always have detractors and will inevitably be referenced by some as "the good old days". That doesn't make anyone less of a fan if they like what's current or prefer the past.

I'm unsure what to make of the early art from the Finches and refuse to jump to conclusions from a pencil with no story ... We have no way on knowing what leads to her kicking ST in the face ... Maybe it will suck and maybe she has an awesome reason to do so. I choose to be positive until proven otherwise, and I know myself well enough to admit that I'll find the parts I do like in the Finch run, even if it completely sucks.

I am pretty certain Lennox only informed Diana that Hera had the pool, considering what he did at the very end and how he usually managed himself, planning wasn't his strongest suit.

I think you are leaning a little too hard on what colors and shades have been used when PI has been the setting, because PI has never from a modern military standpoint looked powerful. Its a few thousand women and all they have to make do with went out of fashion with the bronze age.

@outside_85: and why is it somehow considered bad that she takes a team approach? The best leaders in history listen to and take advice from the people around them. It's one of her strengths IMO that she knows when to listen to advice and follow the lead of another.

@csg_cl: Let's not bring Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman into this because she was portrayed better than New 52 by margins. The problem these days she is basically like Thor (a hotheaded warrior that keeps getting their butt handed to them). Perez wrote her as a smart and strong woman that had to fight her way through obstacles. Another problem is all these unnessary upgrades that she not even utilizing in battle. God of War? What has she done to earn that title? All this stuff is just making me sick. The Finches will do better job with her and I actually like the art.

@zhurong: yes, well when Perez rebooted her people were polarized about it too ... He made a lot of changes to her and many fans hated that too ... nothing is black and white here and you will find many who disagree with how you see N52 Diana. In 10 years you may well look back on Azz and think "wow this was really good"

@csg_cl: She can't breathe in space and almost died from lightning. Nothing to be proud of there. That's pretty much every character when they get rebooted, they change obviously but usually for the better. Look at Wolverine for example, Cornel has made a mockery out of him. These new reboots are ruining characters that were already perfect. Wonder Woman is going go down the drain if she don't get written like the demigod she suplosed to be.

@zhurong: your obsession with feats and power levels is your problem. These things change on practically an issue by issue basis ... I've learned to not pay that much attention to something like this as it's every changing and just frustrating ... Especially when you get a change in writers or a line-wide reboot like N52. Perez Diana struggled to lift a rocket in his first story arc ... But just a year or so later could lift Paradise Island. It's the nature of all comics.

If go by that then Storm has been more impressive than Wonder Woman in her run (Hell, even Mera have better showings). There's a big difference between being overpowered and being a jobber, the latter describes Diana. I only want what is best for WW and her fanbase. I'm sure you see how the other WW fans complain also. She is basically Superman's sidekick in the New 52. We are lucky to even have her flying otherwise she'll still be running on foot.

@zhurong: and I think you are overreacting because you want more action. There are plenty of problems with N52 ... It's far from perfect, but it's also still really young. 36 issues ... That's less than 1% of WW's total appearances in comics ... Even if you count all of her N52 appearances it's less than 2% of her history. I like plot driven comics so I'm down with Azzarello ... I don't love Johns and I'm Luke warm with Soule ... But we already know within a couple of months at least 2 of these guys are moving on and new writers are coming in ... Change is the only thing that never changes.

@csg_cl: This is a action comic series not Romeo & Juliet. Azzarello even stated if it was up to him then WW wouldn't be fighting. Wonder Woman is a fighter not a entertainer. What do you expect her to do? Stay in the kitchen while Superman destroys every threat in DC? All Im hearing is change this and change that but what is being changed? Her character is bland and her origin have no real sense so far.

@zhurong: that's how you see it ... I find the air of mystery and the exploration of her personal challenges interesting. Azzarello has thrown her into a moment of massive personal upheaval and is showing us how she responds to everything she believed to be true about herself, her mother and her people to be false. She's suddenly strapped with a family of unsavory @ssholes and the whole world is about to be consumed by a hate driven monster who is also her oldest brother. The fight she's fighting isn't physical, it's emotional and it's challenging the foundation of the character. It stands out to me because it's never been explored to such depths in WW before ... Rucka made some attempts, but ultimately reverted to action, which is too bad IMO, he could have done something more unique.

Zola actually flat out stated that the plan was Lennox's but you're right about the Amazons having never been portrayed as a military superpower but why not now. The point is Azz reimagined Themyscira as an island of murderous idiots who for several millennia didn't accomplish anything but go on murderous sex expeditions to preserve their existence. I think someone should address why these women live in concealment and what the purpose of their existence is. I would personally like to see the Amazons portrayed as an independent nation of mortal women living somewhere along the banks of the Amazon River.

Dunno, but I think it has to do with it's taking place in a solobook where traditionally the title character is the one with all the answers.

I don't recall that ever being mentioned. But I am imagining the Amazons aren't a military superpower because there is no point for them to be that.

Considering what they do according to the Batwoman issues, they aren't just sitting on their hands. And I wouldn't call them any more stupid than they used to be either, because they have always inhabited this weird middle-ground of having access to very advanced technology, but favor living in the bronze age.

I wouldn't, because the name of the Amazon River was given when European explorers encountered natives who had women to do the fighting, who then ended up being referred to as Amazons and later naming the river after them. DC's Amazons belong on their Mediterranean Paradise Island inspired by the Hellenistic world they were born into. However, I am not opposed to seeing splinter tribes appear elsewhere, like Bana-Mighdall or jungle dwelling Amazons.

@outside_85: yeah, perhaps it's better to call it an eponymous series. Solo implies that the hero is the only main character. Which isn't the case with BM or SM either. I like that she has her little Scooby gang around her. It's one of the things all the great WW writers did well. Marston have Etta, the Holiday Girls and Steve, Perez brought us Julia and Vanessa as well as Steve and Etta and now Azzarello has given us Zola/Zeke, Hera and Orion.

Traditionally the hero of the story's helped by friends and allies but ultimately the hero shines above them. Having answers isn't tantamount to having all of them. The hero can very well possess the faculty of thinking without however being intellectually self-sufficient. I guarantee this is achievable. Honestly, I'm a bit tired of this black-and-white, all-or-nothing mentality.

Anyway, I've conceived a story in my mind where the Amazons were the first European people to find the American continent, before the Spanish and the Portuguese descobridores. As war and famine spread through Europe like an illness, the Amazons sailed their ships to new lands in pursuit of peace. They could come up with 3000 years worth of history for the Amazons.