Wonder Woman's Appearance in Superman #708 With WW Spoiler

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#1 Edited by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio

 
I just read this book and was surprised at the dialog between Wonder Woman and Superman. Are we actually supposed to believe that the NEW Wonder Woman will get her inspiration to be a hero from Superman? Are they serious?.
  
This is the moment when Diana realizes her destiny. That she is not just a warrior, but a hero. A superhero. So why the hell is it happening in Superman 708? And why the hell is Superman her inspiration anyway?  
 
Does anybody else find this REALLY screwed up on a fundamental level?
 
I am sure Phil Hester did not know about this
 

#2 Posted by No_Name_ (17409 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just about to write an article about this

#3 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

i read about this...

#4 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio

why not? Superman is a great role model.
 
I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever.

#5 Posted by Backflip (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh... Wonder Woman is such a mess.

#6 Posted by MrDelicious (8 posts) - - Show Bio

For christ sakes, seriously? Is this the best writers can come up with in terms of storytelling? I'm not a huge Wonder Woman fan, but I respect the fact she has a history just as long as Superman,  and while most of her villains are lame, she's an icon. And I liked the new plot, for as best I could stomach it, but this is why Superman comes off as Intergalatic Reincarnated Super Jesus. She is an amazonian demi-god who becomes a superhero, not through her own trials and tribulations, but from the man she has known and called one of her best friends for over decades. Oh I can't wait for Superboy Prime to punch a hole in reality again, because this character is just a mess.

#7 Edited by DEGRAAF (7909 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:
"  

 
"

You dont happen to have any more scans on how this plays out do you? 
 
@MrDelicious said:

"Oh I can't wait for Superboy Prime to punch a hole in reality again, because this character is just a mess. "



sure seems like something like that is gonna have to happen with all the changes going on in the DCU as of the last couple of years
#8 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" why not? Superman is a great role model.  I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever. "
Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful.
#9 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@DEGRAAF:  yeah I do I will PM you
#10 Posted by DEGRAAF (7909 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:
"Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful. "
 
thats true. It should have at least been in her own solo.
#11 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:
" @Caligula said:
" why not? Superman is a great role model.  I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever. "
Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful. "
Why is it disrespectful. I mean plenty of Captain Marvel's defining moments have been in other people's books and he is still great. 
 
And Maybe it's part of Superman's story because they know more people read Superman, than Wonder Woman. That is a fact. so maybe their logic was give her an epic moment in his book, and maybe we can convert some readers. it can be a good thing. Consider how many people read Superman each issue, if you could get even a portion of those readers to start picking up Diana's book it will be good for her.
#12 Posted by Baddamdog (2224 posts) - - Show Bio

WONDER WOMAN IS A DAMN HOT MESS!     

#13 Posted by DEGRAAF (7909 posts) - - Show Bio

So do you think that is where she will get the idea of Wonder Woman from? and do you think she will start to wear the red yelllow and blue?
#14 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW: @Babs: @Backflip: @MrDelicious: @DEGRAAF: @Baddamdog: 
 
Also isn't that big Eclipso event coming up. Maybe this is leading up to that. Maybe Eclipso is somehow involved with this.
#15 Edited by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:

" @WDW said:

" @Caligula said:
" why not? Superman is a great role model.  I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever. "
Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful. "
Why is it disrespectful. I mean plenty of Captain Marvel's defining moments have been in other people's books and he is still great.   And Maybe it's part of Superman's story because they know more people read Superman, than Wonder Woman. That is a fact. so maybe their logic was give her an epic moment in his book, and maybe we can convert some readers. it can be a good thing. Consider how many people read Superman each issue, if you could get even a portion of those readers to start picking up Diana's book it will be good for her. "
So you would be cool if Batman's parents dieing happend in a Wonder Woman comic and Superman's crash landing to earth for the first time happend in Batman?   whats the point of having different comic book names then. Captain America became captain America in a Captian America comic not a Hulk comic.
#16 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@DEGRAAF said:
" So do you think that is where she will get the idea of Wonder Woman from? and do you think she will start to wear the red yelllow and blue? "
I dont think the current writer of Wonder Womans story arch even knew about this happening..... As far as  I am concerned its still up to Phil Hester to finish his job. But I really hope this is not what it looks like it is.
#17 Edited by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:

" @Caligula said:

" @WDW said:
" @Caligula said:
" why not? Superman is a great role model.  I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever. "
Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful. "
Why is it disrespectful. I mean plenty of Captain Marvel's defining moments have been in other people's books and he is still great.   And Maybe it's part of Superman's story because they know more people read Superman, than Wonder Woman. That is a fact. so maybe their logic was give her an epic moment in his book, and maybe we can convert some readers. it can be a good thing. Consider how many people read Superman each issue, if you could get even a portion of those readers to start picking up Diana's book it will be good for her. "
So you would be cool if Batman's parents dieing happend in a Wonder Woman comic and Superman's crash landing to earth for the first time happend in Batman?   whats the point of having different comic book names then. "
if Batman's sales were hurting yes, yes I think it would be great for Batman's reboot to be in Wonder Woman's book (if Wonder Woman was doing well). And vice-versa, I'm down with that as long as it is written well. If it helps breath life back into my favorite character (which is batman BTW, then im fine with it because I know that with his sales going up i will be able to keep reading his stories because they won't give his book the axe).
 
Facts are facts Wonder Woman's books for the most part don't really do to well, and it would be a shame for one of the big three to be forced into only appearing in a team-book. You see what i'm saying. it's like you don't want her books to do well. (I know you do want her series. you are obviously a big fan, of hers.)
 
Im just saying from a business and marketing stand-point it is obvious why it was in Superman. He is popular and they are trying to get more fans interested in the third member of the big three. cause right now really according to most fans Flash and Hal are more deserving. I disagree, but I know as a Wonder Woman fan you have heard and seen these concerns.
#18 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @WDW said:
" @Caligula said:
" @WDW said:
" @Caligula said:
" why not? Superman is a great role model.  I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever. "
Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful. "
Why is it disrespectful. I mean plenty of Captain Marvel's defining moments have been in other people's books and he is still great.   And Maybe it's part of Superman's story because they know more people read Superman, than Wonder Woman. That is a fact. so maybe their logic was give her an epic moment in his book, and maybe we can convert some readers. it can be a good thing. Consider how many people read Superman each issue, if you could get even a portion of those readers to start picking up Diana's book it will be good for her. "
So you would be cool if Batman's parents dieing happend in a Wonder Woman comic and Superman's crash landing to earth for the first time happend in Batman?   whats the point of having different comic book names then. "
if Batman's sales were hurting yes, yes I think it would be great for Batman's reboot to be in Wonder Woman's book (if Wonder Woman was doing well). And vice-versa, I down with that as long as it is written well. If it helps breath life back into my favorite character (which is batman BTW, then im fine with it because I know that with his sales going up i will be able to keep reading his stories because they won't give his book the axe).  Facts are facts Wonder Woman's books for the most part don't really do to well, and it would be a shame for one of the big three to be forced into only appearing in a team-book. You see what i'm saying. it's like you don't want her books to do well. (I know you do want her series. you are obviously a big fan, of hers.)  Im just saying from a business and marketing stand-point it is obvious why it was in Superman. He is popular and they are trying to get more fans interested in the third member of the big three. cause right now really according to most fans Flash and Hal are more deserving. I disagree, but I know as a Wonder Woman fan you have heard and seen these concerns. "
Nothing personal but I dont think you have the slightest idea about what you are talking about.... What you are suggesting makes NO sense at all. Maybe we should just call the New Wonder Woman TV show Batman because that is what you are suggesting based on your logic and reasoning.
#19 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW: You didn't tell me why I have no idea what I'm talking about. all you did was tell I'm wrong with no logical argument.
 
I never said change the name of her comic to Superman. re-read my comment.
 
I said they are trying to bring her more fans. Superman has a lot of fans, so showing how cool Wonder Woman can in Superman it will draw more fans to her book. logic.
 
It's like if you were a singer but didn't have much recognition then made a huge guest appearance in a more popular artists song your fanbase would explode. Just look at Justin Bieber, He first appeared in an Usher song, so you could say his origin story was in Usher's song. And now look he outsells most every other artist. (no i don't like Bieber) I'm just making a point.
 
You are the one who seems to have no clue what you are talking about.
#20 Posted by SC (13305 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah fer realz? Son of a frak flark grrrRRrrRRrrrRRrr. Maybe I shouldn't read my copy now... 

Moderator Online
#21 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: lol. It's actually a really good issue, I'll vouch for it.
#22 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (19714 posts) - - Show Bio

Well JMS was scripting both books so I guess it makes sense he would find a way to meld the two books together.

#23 Posted by SC (13305 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @SC: lol. It's actually a really good issue, I'll vouch for it. "
 
I will probably read it lol, and like most of it. I just reread though some of the thread, I understand your points, and I think I generally agree with your views everywhere else, like every single time, but times have been tough for fans of Wondy lately. The whole JMS thing, essentially huge plot changes designed to bring in new readers, which is good... but its a balance between long term fans being required to have patience. Regardless of the major plot changes, a huge appeal of her as a character is that she was so independent and as inspirational in her own right as much as Superman, and Batman. Sure in one sense it might be a silly thing to be stubborn over, lol, but its kind of a matter of pride. Character trading should not be happening with Diana in this context, especially given their whole purpose of bringing new fans to her. Any benefits it might bring, because I agree it could and would, and it is a typical comics trope, but in my opinion benefits are not worth it. Better to have a low selling book where Wonder Woman does the inspiring and learns though her own trails than pick up easy fans for a character that gets giddy in the presence of a character we all already know is all that and a bag of crispy crunchy fresh chips, mmmn yum, Chips! 
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#24 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: I wouldn't say she gets giddy though. She simply saw what he was doing and realized she could be doing something better that what she was. i don't think it comes across as her getting all gooey over him when the issue is read in context. but i do get where you are coming from.
#25 Posted by danhimself (22695 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really have a problem with this and I don't understand why anyone else would....it would diverge from the plot of the Wonder Woman series to much for something like this to happen there....plus we all know that by the time the story is over Wonder Woman will be back to her old self

#26 Posted by SC (13305 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @SC: I wouldn't say she gets giddy though. She simply saw what he was doing and realized she could be doing something better that what she was. i don't think it comes across as her getting all gooey over him when the issue is read in context. but i do get where you are coming from. "
 
Yes, I should reserve judgement until I read it in full context. Generally I am always on the side of caution with these things when it comes to these sorts of moments. Especially with the invisible scoreboard. (how each individual ranks what parts and characters in comics they think are more valuable and how and why etc)
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#27 Edited by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:

" @WDW: You didn't tell me why I have no idea what I'm talking about. all you did was tell I'm wrong with no logical argument.  I never said change the name of her comic to Superman. re-read my comment.  I said they are trying to bring her more fans. Superman has a lot of fans, so showing how cool Wonder Woman can in Superman it will draw more fans to her book. logic. 


How is this showing how cool Wonder Woman is? you have it backwards. Normally you have the more popular character guest-star in Wonder Woman's book not the other way around....During "sacrifice" WW 219 Superman guest starred in Wonder Woman and they fought.... and WW comic sales went through the ROOF even for a few issues after the event. If Superman 708's story continued in Wonder Woman then you would have a good argument but it does not. Few if anybody is going to buy Wonder Woman because they saw her in superman 708 without continuation of the story line.
 

 It's like if you were a singer but didn't have much recognition then made a huge guest appearance in a more popular artists song your fanbase would explode. Just look at Justin Bieber, He first appeared in an Usher song, so you could say his origin story was in Usher's song. And now look he outsells most every other artist. (no i don't like Bieber) I'm just making a point.  You are the one who seems to have no clue what you are talking about. "

 
 
Yeah right I have no clue? Justin Bieber was an UNKNOWN and rising star with no record deal when he was signed by  usher......WONDER WOMAN is not an UNKNOWN she is the most recognised female superhero With her OWN Comic for 70 years. If she was an unknown and being invented for the first time then you may have a point however Wonder Woman is 70 years old. People are expecting her to be similar to who she was at her core for the last 70 years.  Again, you are backwards in your thinking.......Its the same reason why TV shows have guest stars on them..... if you want to improve ratings in a BOOK or TV SHOW you have a popular GUEST STAR visit the BOOK or TV show you want to improve..... You dont have the already less popular character, of a less popular book or TV show you are trying to improve "Guest-Star" in a more popular book or TV show hoping that person will seem "cool" so people will go back and buy the book or watch the TV show of the less popular character. What you are suggesting makes no SENSE. Besides, Wonder Woman's appearance in Superman #708 was FAR from "cool" it did not contain anything we have not seen her do in 100's of other times she has guest starred in other comics she actually appeared WEAKER here. So what makes you think her sales will improve because she shows up in Superman 708? again you are not making sense.
 
 
I had to buy a Superman comic because Wonder Woman was in it. Pretty much all the Wonder Woman fans interested in her current story arch are going to buy Superman 708 or read it. However, Superman fans are not going to all of a sudden turn around and buy Wonder Woman comic because she was "COOL" in   Superman #708. Wonder Woman has been "cool" in Justice League comics and cartoons for a long time and her sales are pretty stable..... one Superman #708 showing will change nothing. Infact her showing in Superman #708 DIRECTLY improves Supermans SALES over all not Wonder Womans.
 

  I think it would be great for Batman's reboot to be in Wonder Woman's book (if Wonder Woman was doing well). And vice-versa, I'm down with that as long as it is written well. If it helps breath life back into my favorite character (which is batman BTW, then im fine with it because I know that with his sales going up i will be able to keep reading his stories because they won't give his book the axe). 

Another idea that makes no sense.... if Batman's sales are falling and he needed a reboot you would put his RE-BOOT in a Wonder Woman comic (if she was VERY popular) and vice versa?.....  Now, if Wonder Woman's comic are now reserved for the Batman- Reboot what happens to Wonder Womans stories they get pushed to Batman comics?...... or are you suggesting that Batman's reboot (and central reason for being batman) should involve Wonder Woman suggesting to him to become a hero in order to avenge his parents death in a Wonder Woman's comic? That way people will see how cool "Batman is and buy his comics" ? Seriously does that make sense to you?..... A MUCH more sensible way to go about it would to have  Wonder Woman simply guest star in Batman's comics to improve his sales directly..... That way you wont piss off the hardcore Batman fan's by having them buy Wonder Woman comics in order to see Batman's reboot and you avoid pissing off Wonder Woman fans by having her character wasting time trying to support Batman's reboot in her own comic when her fans should be reading stories which made her so popular in the first place.
 
Also by doing it your illogical way We have the Wonder Woman writer now writing the most important part of Batman's reboot while the Batman writer is stuck with the boring details?.....So now you have 2 writers from 2 seperate books trying to reboot Batman in Wonder Woman comic? Hopeful I am getting through to you.
 
What do you love about BATMAN? now imagine the core reason why you love Batman was completely missrepresented in a Superman comic.

  I'm down with that as long as it is written well

That is why I say you have no idea what you are talking about. However,  I am glad you added this caveat because ...in this instance, Wonder Woman showing up in superman #708  was NOT well written based on the work Phil Hester has already did establishing her superhero origin in her current story arch. 
 
Again having Wonder Woman in Superman's comic will in no way improve her sales  appreciably. However, It improves Superman's sales
 
Its totally fine to have crossovers and I was VERY excited to buy Superman 708 because Wonder Woman was in it. I would help relieve the pain of having to wait for Wonder Woman #607 to come out because I would get to see WW in action..... But to put The New Wonder Woman's primary reason to becoming a Superhero in a Superman comic which improves Supermans sales is a big problem for me. Especially when it contradicts work already done by the Wonder Woman writer.
#28 Posted by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

Hilarious. 
Now we need her to visit gotham and become a member of batman INC.
#29 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:
" Hilarious. Now we need her to visit gotham and become a member of batman INC. "
LOL
#30 Edited by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio

 
 Anyway Phil Hester already did a great job establishing Diana's SUPERHERO ROOTs  in Wonder Woman #605....and based on the continuity timeline(She was 8 years old) DIANA was already an international (albet unknown) hero while Superman was still plowing his fathers fields in Smallville. And Batman was just getting over his parents death. I am just going to disregard what I read in Superman #708 as inconsistent HOGWASH  which is completely disjointed from Wonder Womans current continuity as currently  established by Phil Hester.  
 
Posting these scans already makes me feel much better about the situation.
 








#31 Posted by MrDirector786 (43636 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like this either. Just like how Superman got his inspiration from his foster parents, Wonder Woman was is supposed to get her inspiration from her mother and the Greek Gods. I know Superman is supposed to be an icon to everyone including other heroes, but Wonder Woman is supposed to be an icon of her own - not inspired by Superman. I don't know if what I'm saying has come out right, but I hope you all at least get what I'm saying.

#32 Edited by Batcrow (232 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:

" @WDW said:

" @Caligula said:

" @WDW said:

" @Caligula said:

" why not? Superman is a great role model.  I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever. "
Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful. "
Why is it disrespectful. I mean plenty of Captain Marvel's defining moments have been in other people's books and he is still great.   And Maybe it's part of Superman's story because they know more people read Superman, than Wonder Woman. That is a fact. so maybe their logic was give her an epic moment in his book, and maybe we can convert some readers. it can be a good thing. Consider how many people read Superman each issue, if you could get even a portion of those readers to start picking up Diana's book it will be good for her. "
So you would be cool if Batman's parents dieing happend in a Wonder Woman comic and Superman's crash landing to earth for the first time happend in Batman?   whats the point of having different comic book names then. "
Im just saying from a business and marketing stand-point it is obvious why it was in Superman. He is popular and they are trying to get more fans interested in the third member of the big three. cause right now really according to most fans Flash and Hal are more deserving. I disagree, but I know as a Wonder Woman fan you have heard and seen these concerns. "
I'm sorry but I have to disagree....completely. 
Do you really think people would want to read the comic of a character who got influenced by Superman, instead of one who actually had a strong showing and was prominently featured? 
If they wanted people to start reading Wonder Woman they would have brought in one of her villains to tell people that her rogues' gallery isnt as bad as they think. or shown her doing something in a better way than Superman. Like if Superman was trying to forcefully wrestle a raging beast, they could show Wonder Woman using her animal empathy and stopping the beast right on its tracks. It would stop people thinking of her as someone who is a female Superman who's just not as good.  
I believe Wonder Woman should be given more respect and be shown as equal to Superman, if not better. Such empowerment and equality is central to her character and the last thing I would want to see is her being inspired by someone else, let alone a depressed, downtraught Superman. 
 
It's Superman who should be shown the error of his ways. Just like Black Canary showed Superboy who's boss in the YJ episode "Schooled". Superboy thought combat skill was a joke for him, that is, until Black Canary taught him better. Wonder Woman could have AT LEAST encouraged Superman. She could have told him that if she's learned anything by her Amazon sisters about being a warrior, is that a warrior ALWAYS gets up. Even if he/she has already lost the battle. It's not their pride they have to protect - it's their dignity. But instead the comic made the Amazons look bad.
It would prove to people that she's not a boring old nun who goes preaching to people. Well yeah, she does, but she's also a bad-a$$ warrior nun. 
 
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, Superman clapped away a tornado and Wonder Woman suddenly, somehow, in some crooked twisted manner, decided to be a hero, 
 
That actually would make Superman fans boastful about Superman and more disrespectful of Wonder Woman. Why would they care about someone who was taught by their hero? I don't care how messed up her timeline is, that is JUST PLAIN STUPID. If you think that people would like to read about WW without even learning anything about her character, villains, or personality, except that she was inspired by a hero who, himself, has lost his way - then we can agree to disagree. :)
#33 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW: 
A: you obviously have some sort attachment to Phil Hester, and that's fine, I haven't really like anyone who'd worked on X-Men since Whedon. But what you gotta realize is there is a time to move on. The same person can't write one book forever.
 
B: This whole argument is coming off as more, of an I hate Superman rant, and that Wonder Woman is the only hero that matters thread.
 
C: you are blowing this whole thing out of proportion, the writing is good JMS is doing a great job imo. Before him I didn't really care about Wonder Woman most of her stories came of flat as just another Women's empowerment book. it was like the life-time channel in written format. I can understand that you don't like this new direction or the fact that she thinks highly of and is inspired by Superman, but that really doesn't matter because there is going to be someone out whose first time reading about her will be here and may one day grow to be a bigger fan of her than yourself, and if you were to meet they would tell you that you are wrong and that this was one of Wonder Woman's brightest Moments. Batman's character has gone through a lot of things that I didn't like, like him nearly revealing himself as Bruce by openly admitting to funding Batman, But I didn't go and create a thread on a forum to cry about. why? because it's a good story. get over sexist attitude and read the story for what it is, and not what you're trying to make it out to be. Superman is many other heroes role model and some villains for that matter.
 
D: whenever you say i have no clue because I said "as long as it is written well im okay with it" you do realize that makes you sound crazy right? basically what you are saying is that even if it was the greatest story ever told you wouldn't like because it wasn't like what Phil Hester did with her. that's a little immature.
#34 Edited by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Batcrow said:

" @Caligula said:

" @WDW said:

" @Caligula said:

" @WDW said:
" @Caligula said:
" why not? Superman is a great role model.  I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever. "
Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful. "
Why is it disrespectful. I mean plenty of Captain Marvel's defining moments have been in other people's books and he is still great.   And Maybe it's part of Superman's story because they know more people read Superman, than Wonder Woman. That is a fact. so maybe their logic was give her an epic moment in his book, and maybe we can convert some readers. it can be a good thing. Consider how many people read Superman each issue, if you could get even a portion of those readers to start picking up Diana's book it will be good for her. "
So you would be cool if Batman's parents dieing happend in a Wonder Woman comic and Superman's crash landing to earth for the first time happend in Batman?   whats the point of having different comic book names then. "
Im just saying from a business and marketing stand-point it is obvious why it was in Superman. He is popular and they are trying to get more fans interested in the third member of the big three. cause right now really according to most fans Flash and Hal are more deserving. I disagree, but I know as a Wonder Woman fan you have heard and seen these concerns. "
I'm sorry but I have to disagree....completely. 
Do you really think people would want to read the comic of a character who got influenced by Superman, instead of one who actually had a strong showing and was prominently featured? 
If they wanted people to start reading Wonder Woman they would have brought in one of her villains to tell people that her rogues' gallery isnt as bad as they think. or shown her doing something in a better way than Superman. Like if Superman was trying to forcefully wrestle a raging beast, they could show Wonder Woman using her animal empathy and stopping the beast right on its tracks. It would stop people thinking of her as someone who is a female Superman, just not as good.  
I believe Wonder Woman should be given more respect and be shown as equal to Superman, if not better. Such empowerment and equality is central to her character and the last thing I would want to see is her being inspired by someone else, let alone a depressed, downtraught Superman. 
 
It's Superman who should be shown the error of his ways. Just like Black Canary showed Superboy who's boss in the YJ episode "Schooled". Superboy thought combat skill was a joke for him, that is, until Black Canary taught him better. Wonder Woman could have AT LEAST encouraged Superman. She could have told him that if she's learned anything by her Amazon sisters about being a warrior, is that a warrior ALWAYS gets up. Even if he/she has already lost the battle. It's not their pride they have to protect - it's their dignity. It would prove to people that she's not a boring old nun who goes preaching to people. Well yeah, she does, but she's also a bad-a$$ warrior nun.  BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, Superman clapped away a tornado and Wonder Woman suddenly, somehow, in some crooked twisted manner, decided to be a hero,  That actually would make Superman fans boastful and more disrespectful of Wonder Woman. Why would they care about someone who was taught by their hero? I don't care how messed up her timeline is, that is JUST PLAIN STUPID. If you think that people would like to read about WW without even learning anything about her character, villains, or personality, except that she was inspired by a hero who, himself, has lost his way - then we can agree to disagree. :) "
you are being very judgmental of Superman fans. You are prejudging them all based on what? their comic book preferences? How long did Captain Marvel mean absolutely nothing to no one except for die hard Captain Marvel Fans, then he appears in Superman and is inspired by him and look at the legions of fans he has now. Mind it's not Superman or Batman level of fandom no but it's far more than he had. and i will bet you straight money that if were to create a poll right now about who people liked better out of Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman, i'll bet you Cap crushes her. (and it will be because more people care about him, and that all spawned from Superman).
#35 Posted by Batcrow (232 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @Batcrow said:

" @Caligula said:

" @WDW said:

" @Caligula said:

" @WDW said:
" @Caligula said:
" why not? Superman is a great role model.  I really like the new direction that Diana has been taken in. I'm reading more Wonder Woman than ever. "
Even if you are cool with this why is  Wonder Womans defining moment written into Superman's book? That was very disrespectful. "
Why is it disrespectful. I mean plenty of Captain Marvel's defining moments have been in other people's books and he is still great.   And Maybe it's part of Superman's story because they know more people read Superman, than Wonder Woman. That is a fact. so maybe their logic was give her an epic moment in his book, and maybe we can convert some readers. it can be a good thing. Consider how many people read Superman each issue, if you could get even a portion of those readers to start picking up Diana's book it will be good for her. "
So you would be cool if Batman's parents dieing happend in a Wonder Woman comic and Superman's crash landing to earth for the first time happend in Batman?   whats the point of having different comic book names then. "
Im just saying from a business and marketing stand-point it is obvious why it was in Superman. He is popular and they are trying to get more fans interested in the third member of the big three. cause right now really according to most fans Flash and Hal are more deserving. I disagree, but I know as a Wonder Woman fan you have heard and seen these concerns. "
I'm sorry but I have to disagree....completely. 
Do you really think people would want to read the comic of a character who got influenced by Superman, instead of one who actually had a strong showing and was prominently featured? 
If they wanted people to start reading Wonder Woman they would have brought in one of her villains to tell people that her rogues' gallery isnt as bad as they think. or shown her doing something in a better way than Superman. Like if Superman was trying to forcefully wrestle a raging beast, they could show Wonder Woman using her animal empathy and stopping the beast right on its tracks. It would stop people thinking of her as someone who is a female Superman, just not as good.  
I believe Wonder Woman should be given more respect and be shown as equal to Superman, if not better. Such empowerment and equality is central to her character and the last thing I would want to see is her being inspired by someone else, let alone a depressed, downtraught Superman. 
 
It's Superman who should be shown the error of his ways. Just like Black Canary showed Superboy who's boss in the YJ episode "Schooled". Superboy thought combat skill was a joke for him, that is, until Black Canary taught him better. Wonder Woman could have AT LEAST encouraged Superman. She could have told him that if she's learned anything by her Amazon sisters about being a warrior, is that a warrior ALWAYS gets up. Even if he/she has already lost the battle. It's not their pride they have to protect - it's their dignity. It would prove to people that she's not a boring old nun who goes preaching to people. Well yeah, she does, but she's also a bad-a$$ warrior nun.  BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, Superman clapped away a tornado and Wonder Woman suddenly, somehow, in some crooked twisted manner, decided to be a hero,  That actually would make Superman fans boastful and more disrespectful of Wonder Woman. Why would they care about someone who was taught by their hero? I don't care how messed up her timeline is, that is JUST PLAIN STUPID. If you think that people would like to read about WW without even learning anything about her character, villains, or personality, except that she was inspired by a hero who, himself, has lost his way - then we can agree to disagree. :) "
How long did Captain Marvel mean absolutely nothing to no one except for die hard Captain Marvel Fans, then he appears in Superman and is inspired by him and look at the legions of fans he has now.
Captain Marvel was not an established character at the time. Equality and empowerment are/were not central to his character. He is very similar to Superman in terms of power, but when was he a member of the Trinity? Sorry if you thought i was being judgemental, but how would you feel if Superman was inspired by Batman in his book? It seems fitting because he is very depressed at the moment and has been trying to find his way. I would know because I have been reading his comics. 
 
When was Captain Marvel an iconic symbol right from the beginning of his creation? He was relatively unknown and used Superman to boost himself into stardom. Over here, Wonder Woman and all she stands for, are being sacrificed to make Superman look good. I like Superman, but he already has enough fame and stardom and already has tons of followers, as shown in the very same comic book issue. I don't see why, of all people, Wonder Woman, was used to propel him, rather than increasing awareness about her own story and villains and giving people A REASON to care about her. To make people actually know something about her, the way they did with CM.
#36 Edited by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:

" @WDW: 
A: you obviously have some sort attachment to Phil Hester, and that's fine, I haven't really like anyone who'd worked on X-Men since Whedon. But what you gotta realize is there is a time to move on. The same person can't write one book forever. 


 
Yeah he is currently writing Wonder Woman after JMS has left and he is going to finish the ARCH..... I dont care who writes wonder woman in the future as long as someone (currently Phil Hester) finishes the arch
 


B: This whole argument is coming off as more, of an I hate Superman rant, and that Wonder Woman is the only hero that matters thread.

Your last comment to me was to tell you why I think you have no idea what you are talking about and thats what I did..... So now you regret it? 
 
Where did I say or imply I hate Superman? 
 

  I can understand that you don't like this new direction 

WHAT? I love what JMS did and what Phil Hester are doing to Wonder Woman. I am probably the biggest fan of this new Wonder Woman reboot obviously you are not paying attention
 
 
 

You dont like the fact that she thinks highly of and is inspired by Superman,


 That part did not come from JMS or PHIL HESTER.  Roberson has taken over writing Superman so this is not a part of Wonder Womans reboot.... and it conflicts to what has already been written in Wonder Womans reboot so why wouldnt fans be upset.... Its not good writting if it conflicts with already established information correct? or do you like stories that conflict?
 
 

 but that really doesn't matter because there is going to be someone out whose first time reading about her will be here and may one day grow to be a bigger fan of her than yourself, and if you were to meet they would tell you that you are wrong and that this was one of Wonder Woman's brightest Moments. 


 OOOH GEE I AM SCARED ok I won't hold my breath
 
 

 Batman's character has gone through a lot of things that I didn't like, like him nearly revealing himself as Bruce by openly admitting to funding Batman, But I didn't go and create a thread on a forum to cry about. why? because it's a good story.  

Thats because that important  EVENT happend in a BATMAN comic book and was written by Batmans writers. It did not happen in Green Lantern, Plastic man or Superman. However, Wonder Woman fans have to be happy about buying a Superman comic in order to find out why Wonder Woman became a superhero? and What if you thought it was a BAD story would you then create a thread and complain? because thats what I am doing
 

D: whenever you say i have no clue because I said "as long as it is written well im okay with it" you do realize that makes you sound crazy right? basically what you are saying is that even if it was the greatest story ever told you wouldn't like because it wasn't like what Phil Hester did with her. that's a little immature. "

I am talking about 5 panels in Superman 708 being innacurate to what is going on in Wonder Woman's own book....EVERYTHING else about Wonder Womans reboot I love. The 5 panels are a contradiction and not written by the Wonder Woman writer ...  Of course I am going to complain....and I am not the only one.... people are posting the same thing all over the internet..... maybe its you thats crazy LOL
#37 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW:
@Batcrow:  The Trinity wasn't the Trinity when she was created. She wasn't immediately successful. He books have a long history of being less than popular with the average crowd. Am I saying that makes her a bad character no, I'm not. And as for Captain marvel being similar in terms of power to Superman yes that is true, but it also stands true for Wondy like it or not. I don't get where you are coming from you guys act like this is the first time this has ever happened and are pre-judging the story based on one issue, that may come back to make Wonder Woman look even more powerful that Superman. Superman has lost his direction right? well what if Superman, gets into a situation soon where he has lost faith and is in a depression. Then Wonder Woman comes along rallies him to his feet, and he is inspired by her. Her saying something like "When I was lost you gave me direction, Now get back on your feet soldier" (or something like that) and Superman is re-encouraged knowing that if was able to inspire somebody as powerful as Diana then what was he doing feeling sorry for himself. And all of that could very well happen in her book. (I bet you two wouldn't be crying in your cheerios then huh?)
 
You never know, This story isn't over until it's over. You guys are acting like this is the last issue she will ever be featured in or something. Give it time before you decide this was a poor move. It may very well be a part of something much larger.
#38 Posted by Batcrow (232 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:

" @WDW:
@Batcrow: Her saying something like "When I was lost you gave me direction, Now get back on your feet soldier" (or something like that) and Superman is re-encouraged knowing that if was able to inspire somebody as powerful as Diana then what was he doing feeling sorry for himself.   

Ring me up when that happens. And are you sure that she's going to keep appearing in Superman's comic. Considering how the cover said "Guest-starring Wonder Woman" I really doubt it. 
 
@Caligula
said:

" @WDW:
@Batcrow: (I bet you two wouldn't be crying in your cheerios then huh?) You never know, This story isn't over until it's over.

Tell that to Babs, Trippe and Phil Hester.  
 http://www.comicvine.com/news/brutally-honest-moments-that-make-you-shake-your-head/142813/  
 http://bettween.com/dcwomenkicknass/deantrippe  
http://bettween.com/dcwomenkicknass/philhester
#39 Posted by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

I love this ,supes/wonder fans were constantly moaning about batman being treated like god or having so many books . 
Looks like turnabout is fairplay. 
All hail BARBATOS.
#40 Edited by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:

" @WDW:
@Batcrow:  The Trinity wasn't the Trinity when she was created. She wasn't immediately successful. He books have a long history of being less than popular with the average crowd. Am I saying that makes her a bad character no, I'm not. And as for Captain marvel being similar in terms of power to Superman yes that is true, but it also stands true for Wondy like it or not. I don't get where you are coming from you guys act like this is the first time this has ever happened and are pre-judging the story based on one issue, that may come back to make Wonder Woman look even more powerful that Superman. Superman has lost his direction right? well what if Superman, gets into a situation soon where he has lost faith and is in a depression. Then Wonder Woman comes along rallies him to his feet, and he is inspired by her. Her saying something like "When I was lost you gave me direction, Now get back on your feet soldier" (or something like that) and Superman is re-encouraged knowing that if was able to inspire somebody as powerful as Diana then what was he doing feeling sorry for himself. And all of that could very well happen in her book. (I bet you two wouldn't be crying in your cheerios then huh?) You never know, This story isn't over until it's over. You guys are acting like this is the last issue she will ever be featured in or something. Give it time before you decide this was a poor move. It may very well be a part of something much larger. "

You are clearly not listening... my issue is that this event should have happend in the WONDER WOMAN BOOK! not Superman's because the way its presented here is totally out of context to where WONDER WOMAN is in her development in her own RE-BOOT. It simply does not fit into Wonder Woman's reboot. Its actually a step back in character development. Her role has no PURPOSE in superman 708 other than to make superman look good as Batcrow said. It does not help Wonder Woman in  her development or in rebooting her character.
 
You have been arguing that it should be in Supermans book because it will bring more readers to Wonder Woman's book which is totally illogical
#41 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Batcrow said:

" @Caligula said:

" @WDW:
@Batcrow: Her saying something like "When I was lost you gave me direction, Now get back on your feet soldier" (or something like that) and Superman is re-encouraged knowing that if was able to inspire somebody as powerful as Diana then what was he doing feeling sorry for himself.   

Ring me up when that happens. And are you sure that she's going to keep appearing in Superman's comic. Considering how the cover said "Guest-starring Wonder Woman" I really doubt it. 
 

nice. classic internet... taking something out of context. here let me remind you that you forgot this part "And all of that could very well happen in her book." You are still crying about a story that is over yet. I'm surprised you aren't a Storm fan :P j/k
 
 
@Batcrow said:

@Batcrow: (I bet you two wouldn't be crying in your cheerios then huh?) You never know, This story isn't over until it's over.


Tell that to Babs, Trippe and Phil Hester.  
 http://www.comicvine.com/news/brutally-honest-moments-that-make-you-shake-your-head/142813/  
 http://bettween.com/dcwomenkicknass/deantrippe  
http://bettween.com/dcwomenkicknass/philhester "


 A: I don't really care about what Babs says. I have disagreed with her on pretty much every article she has ever written on Diana. And the Majority of her reviews. Pretty much at this point it's easier for me judge whether or not I will like the book based on how much she hates it. That is how often I disagree with her. (She is a nice person, but we just don't even come close to having the same taste in comics)
 
B: If I went my whole life caring what other people think, I would have been Blonde, Athletic, And listened to Coldplay :D
#42 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:
" @Caligula said:

" @WDW:
@Batcrow:  The Trinity wasn't the Trinity when she was created. She wasn't immediately successful. He books have a long history of being less than popular with the average crowd. Am I saying that makes her a bad character no, I'm not. And as for Captain marvel being similar in terms of power to Superman yes that is true, but it also stands true for Wondy like it or not. I don't get where you are coming from you guys act like this is the first time this has ever happened and are pre-judging the story based on one issue, that may come back to make Wonder Woman look even more powerful that Superman. Superman has lost his direction right? well what if Superman, gets into a situation soon where he has lost faith and is in a depression. Then Wonder Woman comes along rallies him to his feet, and he is inspired by her. Her saying something like "When I was lost you gave me direction, Now get back on your feet soldier" (or something like that) and Superman is re-encouraged knowing that if was able to inspire somebody as powerful as Diana then what was he doing feeling sorry for himself. And all of that could very well happen in her book. (I bet you two wouldn't be crying in your cheerios then huh?) You never know, This story isn't over until it's over. You guys are acting like this is the last issue she will ever be featured in or something. Give it time before you decide this was a poor move. It may very well be a part of something much larger. "

You are clearly not listening... my issue is that this event should have happend in the WONDER WOMAN BOOK! not Superman's because the way its presented here is totally out of context to where WONDER WOMAN is in her development in her own RE-BOOT. It simply does not fit into Wonder Woman's reboot. Its actually a step back in character development. Her role has no PURPOSE in superman 708 other than to make superman look good as Batcrow said. It does not help Wonder Woman in  her development or in rebooting her character. You have been arguing that it should be in Supermans book because it will bring more readers to Wonder Woman's book which is totally illogical "
No. there is logic in it. do you know what that word means (I'm sorry that sounded insulting, But it is logical) you have yet to prove how it isn't your previous posts do not invalidate my argument.
 
But I'm just gonna leave this be because, you are just stuck in you ways. Much like a republican :D (that was a joke i'm not trying to insult you) It's fine for you to be stuck in your ways it shows back-bone. I still disagree strongly but further argument is pointless because I don't think you are listening to reason, and you don't think I am. And when soemthing like this reaches this point it just becomes the two side repeating previous sentiments, and no one gets anywhere.
 
you are free to hate this as much as you want, but I'm going to enjoy it. (although when this story arc is over and turns out to be great, I hope you won't be angry when I say I told you so) (and please feel free to do the same to me if it turns out poorly)
#43 Posted by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

Dont understand what the whole fuss is all about? 
Newsflash ,this reboot will be rebooted. 
Diana was her normal self in return of bruce wayne ,the time masters said that events arranged by the omega sanction CANNOT BE ALTERED,hence why eobard thawne/zoom is looking for omega energy . 
Then there's flashpoint ,of whic thawne will be the the main antagonist.
#44 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @WDW said:
" @Caligula said:

" @WDW:
@Batcrow:  The Trinity wasn't the Trinity when she was created. She wasn't immediately successful. He books have a long history of being less than popular with the average crowd. Am I saying that makes her a bad character no, I'm not. And as for Captain marvel being similar in terms of power to Superman yes that is true, but it also stands true for Wondy like it or not. I don't get where you are coming from you guys act like this is the first time this has ever happened and are pre-judging the story based on one issue, that may come back to make Wonder Woman look even more powerful that Superman. Superman has lost his direction right? well what if Superman, gets into a situation soon where he has lost faith and is in a depression. Then Wonder Woman comes along rallies him to his feet, and he is inspired by her. Her saying something like "When I was lost you gave me direction, Now get back on your feet soldier" (or something like that) and Superman is re-encouraged knowing that if was able to inspire somebody as powerful as Diana then what was he doing feeling sorry for himself. And all of that could very well happen in her book. (I bet you two wouldn't be crying in your cheerios then huh?) You never know, This story isn't over until it's over. You guys are acting like this is the last issue she will ever be featured in or something. Give it time before you decide this was a poor move. It may very well be a part of something much larger. "

You are clearly not listening... my issue is that this event should have happend in the WONDER WOMAN BOOK! not Superman's because the way its presented here is totally out of context to where WONDER WOMAN is in her development in her own RE-BOOT. It simply does not fit into Wonder Woman's reboot. Its actually a step back in character development. Her role has no PURPOSE in superman 708 other than to make superman look good as Batcrow said. It does not help Wonder Woman in  her development or in rebooting her character. You have been arguing that it should be in Supermans book because it will bring more readers to Wonder Woman's book which is totally illogical "
 (although when this story arc is over and turns out to be great, I hope you won't be angry when I say I told you so) (and please feel free to do the same to me if it turns out poorly) "
Which story arch are you even talking about? Superman's? or Wonder Woman's?..... because I already know Wonder Womans story arch will be great. It has been so far and nobody is disputing that.....( futher proof you have no idea what I have been talking about)..... Well atleast we are finally done here
 
Thanks.
#45 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW: thanks for keeping the insults up. :D
#46 Edited by Batcrow (232 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:

 you are free to hate this as much as you want, but I'm going to enjoy it. (although when this story arc is over and turns out to be great, I hope you won't be angry when I say I told you so) (and please feel free to do the same to me if it turns out poorly) "

As long as this issue convinced you to read/ keep reading Wonder Woman - then fine by me.  Maybe I was thinking that you didn't respect WW, the character itself, as much.
 
It's just that, for me personally, Wonder Woman means more than just to make an appearance in someone else's comic as a random plot device. You may not think so, but that okay. I felt that the issue went against Diana's central character elements to be kept under the wing of another hero. It's just not her. Maybe I was excited to see them together but Diana didn't have nearly the amount of importance as i wanted, and I felt that this portrayal went against her basic character roots.  
 
But i assume this issue will make you keep reading WW, so good. If you just liked that she made an appearance, and weren't bothered by the incorrect portrayal, I can't change your mind. Apparently you like Diana for different reasons, or she may just not be your favourite character.  
The fact that you're reading her comic is more than we can ask for, I guess, in that case. but just to make sure you are, Name the 3 goddesses that make up the Morrigan, and which one revived Cheetah, Giganta, and Artemis?? :P lol.
#47 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW: btw it's "ARC" not "ARCH"
#48 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @WDW: btw it's "ARC" not "ARCH" "
Oh thank you so much
#49 Posted by entropy_aegis (15472 posts) - - Show Bio

Things are heating up.
#50 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @WDW: thanks for keeping the insults up. :D "
Was not intending to insult you. I was just pointing out  that you dont seem to be reading and understanding my posts :D 
 
However
 
I like the Wonder Woman Reboot and you like the Wonder Woman reboot so the universe makes sense.

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