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    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8719 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    Wonder Woman vs Superman

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    Avatar image for reinhardjanssenwijaya
    reinhardjanssenwijaya

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    Poll Wonder Woman vs Superman (105 votes)

    wonder woman 40%
    superman 59%
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    Klaus

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    @frozen: I gave you the example of the Kryptonite being less effective than usual. It was clear that Superman was more powerful than usual. You are using one example from Swamp thing. Do you know if Superman actually entered the surface or was hovering just at the surface. And do you know how long he was there?

    I think you are confusing your words as I didn't say you said Diana hit Bruce to the Earth. I said twice Diana hit Bruce to the Moon. Diana wasn't on Earth no, but they were right above it as you see it very closely in the background. Regardless of it being a surprise attack, she hit him all the way to the Moon. Bruce later hit Diana to Earth. He was focusing on her as she was the biggest threat. The only thing that made Bruce's instance more impressive was that he was multi tasking. Then again neither Diana or Bruce were trying to kill each other. This instance doesn't show anything about there power levels.

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    Klaus

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    @saint_sophie: You are right about Zod and Faora just getting use to their powers, however Apollo had been slowly charging them up faster than a normal Kryptonian so they would be powerful enough to handle Superman. And while its true that Superman didn't want to fight back at first, he has no excuse for why he still lost to Zod after Diana showed up and handled Faora.

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    ZhuRong

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    @csg_cl: I hope not. The last thing we need is a bunch of PowerWoman's trolling this forum.

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    reinhardjanssenwijaya

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    ariesxmasters

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    #56  Edited By ariesxmasters

    Wonder Woman has been shown to be able to take and trade blows with Superman, when he was driven insane, and he was saying he was going to kill her in short he was going all out.

    She was doing alright to me minus that surprise blow he got on here, she was holding her own though, it most certainly wasn't a stomp in anyway.

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    TheBlondeGod

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    Whoops, this doesn't seem to come to an end. Lol

    Where are you actually basing the win? On the poll results or the more logical conclusion of each viners post to argue each characters capabilities? This has been done many times, actually.

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    Lvenger

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    @agent41 said:

    Superman is not much more powerful than Wonder Woman in Pre 52. She held her own in all their fights. Pre 52 Batman soloing the whole JL with superman's powers is beyond PIS and i can't believe anybody can be serious using that as an example of anything. Even then Batman admited that she would be back very soon and had to take care of the others fast acknowledging her as a big threat to care off first. And you know very well that many members of the JL can hold their own in a one on one fight against superman. No way in hell would superman beat them all at the same time.

    Physically he's a clear peg above Wonder Woman in physical strength and striking power. Not to mention his high end durability feats are more consistent than what Diana was tanking too. As for Batman soloing the League with Superman's powers, he didn't beat everyone. He BFRed WW, stripped Hawkgirl of her oxygen mask to force Firestorm and John Stewart to save her and only Red Tornado was actually KOed by SuperBats. And yes most of the League could hold their own or beat Superman in a 1v1 fight but the Leaguers SuperBats fought were; Wonder Woman, Firestorm, Hawkgirl, John Stewart and Red Tornado. Hal and Supergirl never got involved but evidently it's agreed on here that the former could beat Superman. Superman wouldn't have a chance against the original 7 line up but against the JLAers Superbats did fight, he did use the environment to his advantage to help him win.

    @frozen said:

    @lvenger said:

    @frozen: Well said mate, I've missed your fierce debating on the battle forums.

    Superman wins in both Pre New 52 and New 52 incarnations. Especially New 52 versions, Diana is much weaker than Superman currently compared to their physicals before.

    Thanks, it does feel good gain to engage in some debate.

    I agree; especially for the New-52. 2015 will mark the fourth year of the New-52 and it's clear by this point the direction they have went with in regards to power. Superman is simply more powerful.

    I agree with you for now but I have a feeling that, when Wonder Woman and Superman break up, they'll probably have a fight with each other where Diana is established as more of an equal than she has been before. Either that or Clark will hold back against Diana, that could happen too.

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    Lvenger

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    @ariesxmasters: I'm sure you know that's Earth 2 Superman and Wonder Woman right? In which case, I don't know why you've posted those scans here because they have no relevance on the mainstream Superman and Wonder Woman.

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    ariesxmasters

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    @lvenger said:

    @ariesxmasters: I'm sure you know that's Earth 2 Superman and Wonder Woman right? In which case, I don't know why you've posted those scans here because they have no relevance on the mainstream Superman and Wonder Woman.

    I'm aware I have those issues.

    They're pretty similar to mainstream Superman and Wonder Woman.

    In a actual fight I do think Superman does have a slight advantage, but to say "Superman stomps" is a stretch. Superman is a little faster and a good amount stronger (Lifting wise ad least, I don't know how he is striking wise), but I don't think so much so that he is going to drop her in one blow, or be to fast for her to react to anything. I think it could go either way, if she fights like she way with Zod and Faora she could beat him, but if not she bites the big one more than likely.

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    Saren

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    #61  Edited By Saren

    They're pretty similar to mainstream Superman and Wonder Woman.

    Somehow this idea never seems to be valid when someone brings up Absolute Power's Superman and Wonder Woman

    No Caption Provided

    Or does it only apply when things look good for Di?

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    Saint_Sophie

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    Was this suppose to be a battle or something else? As the male Clark takes the majority lol. Jokes aside, he does.

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    Lvenger

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    @ariesxmasters: Currently, New 52 Superman does stomp Wonder Woman based on the evidence for it despite those who don't want to accept it. He's stronger, hits harder, is faster, more durable, more versatile etc than Diana is currently by miles. This isn't the Pre New 52 versions where it could go either way, Diana has no feats comparable to what Superman can do. And if the argument came down to which more powerful foes each has beaten, Superman has Wraith, H'El and Doomsday to his name in 2014 alone.

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    ariesxmasters

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    @lvenger: @saren:

    Zat es Pre-52 gaaaah badge, Mod, zoes no belong here.

    Lvenger, you mistake me for bias which is not false. I'm actually pretty balanced on both these two, also you're right Superman is superior in stats, but I don't think so much so that he is going to be stomping anything.

    Let me explain further since you wanna talk feats so badly.

    Superman is a little stronger and faster than Supergirl. She was able to keep up with him when they were flying, and he said he is a little stronger.

    Wonder Woman was able to rush and take down Supergirl when needed.

    Superman cannot break Wonder Woman's lasso.

    Zod and Faora WERE just getting use to their powers yet Wonder Woman was keeping it together while Superman was pretty much a Kryptonian punching bag for them.

    Hmmm I won't get into stronger villains here.

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    Saren

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    #65  Edited By Saren

    @ariesxmasters: So that means Pre-52, Superman would effortlessly murder Wonder Woman, in your estimation?

    Superman is much stronger and faster than Supergirl, that's already been demonstrated in the New 52 by Supergirl getting curbstomped by a Superman doppelganger that the real deal then destroyed without much difficulty.

    Doomsday one-shotted Wonder Woman, broke both her arms in one hit and would have killed her if he hadn't been sucked back into the Phantom Zone; later, after Doomsday had mutated to become stronger and exude a death aura that was killing thousands just from his mere presence, Superman punched him out of orbit, blitzed him to Venus and ripped him in half with his bare hands. Wraith ragdolled Diana all over the Batcave before Superman swooped in and took him down. Why don't we conclude from all this that Superman is much more powerful? Again, do these comparisons only apply when they make Di look good?

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    Lvenger

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    #66  Edited By Lvenger

    @ariesxmasters:

    Zat es Pre-52 gaaaah badge, Mod, zoes no belong here.

    Um...what? If that was your attempt at humourously saying you don't know/like the Pre New 52, you failed there.

    Lvenger, you mistake me for bias which is not false. I'm actually pretty balanced on both these two, also you're right Superman is superior in stats, but I don't think so much so that he is going to be stomping anything.

    Considering that you're one of the few users on CV who seems to deny Wally West being an apex battle forum character who can beat practically anyone below Herald level when free of PIS and WIS, you're not helping yourself by trying to distance yourself from being balanced. Not to mention I haven't exactly agreed with you most of the time and have countered your arguments before. Maybe you've learnt something since then.

    Let me explain further since you wanna talk feats so badly.

    Well of course since feats are the currency of the battle forums and make for a better empirical method of determining what a character can do

    Superman is a little stronger and faster than Supergirl. She was able to keep up with him when they were flying, and he said he is a little stronger.

    Haha nope, Superman is not just a little bit stronger than Supergirl. He's a league above Kara completely. Take Superman #6 - The Measure of a Superman for example. A nanite clone of Superman was stomping Supergirl when it fought Supergirl whilst channelling Superman's abilities. Shortly after he broke free, Superman owned that nanite clone handily. I can't post all the scans due to the new scan rule but here's a link to a New 52 Superman vs New 52 Wonder Woman CAV I had a while ago. That has all the scans you need to see for my proof. It's clear Superman is much stronger, faster and more powerful than Supergirl, not just a little.

    Wonder Woman was able to rush and take down Supergirl when needed.

    True but you're forgetting that Diana also admitted that Kara matched her in strength and speed as well.

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    Even if I subscribe to your faulty ABC logic, Superman>Supergirl=Wonder Woman. He's still superior and further feats only solidify this claim.

    Superman cannot break Wonder Woman's lasso.

    Again true but Diana won't get a chance to incapacitate Superman in the lasso due to the difference in physical stats and raw power in the New 52 Superman and Wonder Woman.

    Zod and Faora WERE just getting use to their powers yet Wonder Woman was keeping it together while Superman was pretty much a Kryptonian punching bag for them.

    Yes, they WERE inexperienced in using their powers yet they somehow beat the more experienced Superman who had a lifetime of solar energy whilst they only had a few hours of solar radiation in their cells at best? How does that make sense? Besides, it's inconsistent when matched up with Superman's track record against more powerful foes than Wonder Woman, e.g Wraith. Wraith stomped Wonder Woman but Superman managed to fight him all across the world, to the moon and the core of the Earth. Or what about Doomsday? He one shotted Wonder Woman in a weaker form and then overpowered her in Doomed but then Superman stepped up to the ring and owned Doomsday twice.

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    ariesxmasters

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    @lvenger: @saren:

    So that means Pre-52, Superman would effortlessly murder Wonder Woman, in your estimation?

    Considering that you're one of the few users on CV who seems to deny Wally West being an apex battle forum character who can beat practically anyone below Herald level when free of PIS and WIS, you're not helping yourself by trying to distance yourself from being balanced. Not to mention I haven't exactly agreed with you most of the time and have countered your arguments before. Maybe you've learnt something since then.

    Mod, I know nothing about Pre-52, I got into Comic during the New-52.

    For you, Lvenger, I don't give a damn about Wally West he ain't doing anything right now besides having a bad attitude. I don't recall you, but apparently your not a big fan of me for something I said.

    Superman is much stronger and faster than Supergirl, that's already been demonstrated in the New 52 by Supergirl getting curbstomped by a Superman doppelganger that the real deal then destroyed without much difficulty.

    Haha nope, Superman is not just a little bit stronger than Supergirl. He's a league above Kara completely. Take Superman #6 - The Measure of a Superman for example. A nanite clone of Superman was stomping Supergirl when it fought Supergirl whilst channelling Superman's abilities. Shortly after he broke free, Superman owned that nanite clone handily. I can't post all the scans due to the new scan rule but here's a link to a New 52 Superman vs New 52 Wonder Woman CAV I had a while ago. That has all the scans you need to see for my proof. It's clear Superman is much stronger, faster and more powerful than Supergirl, not just a little.

    That Superman beating Kara falls apart under scrutiny. The doppleganger was buffed somehow, because why was he impervious to heat vision, and physical attacks? Doesn't add up, specially when regular Superman isn't imperious to those things and has shown to be hurt by them.

    Doomsday one-shotted Wonder Woman, broke both her arms in one hit and would have killed her if he hadn't been sucked back into the Phantom Zone; later, after Doomsday had mutated to become stronger and exude a death aura that was killing thousands just from his mere presence, Superman punched him out of orbit, blitzed him to Venus and ripped him in half with his bare hands. Wraith ragdolled Diana all over the Batcave before Superman swooped in and took him down. Why don't we conclude from all this that Superman is much more powerful? Again, do these comparisons only apply when they make Di look good?

    The Doomsday that broke Diana's arms is not the same Doomsday who was exhibiting poison to anything in his radius. Wraith kicked Superman across the continent like a soccer ball too, and was showing complete dominance in there scraps.

    True but you're forgetting that Diana also admitted that Kara matched her in strength and speed as well.

    That is correct.

    Yes, they WERE inexperienced in using their powers yet they somehow beat the more experienced Superman who had a lifetime of solar energy whilst they only had a few hours of solar radiation in their cells at best? How does that make sense? Besides, it's inconsistent when matched up with Superman's track record against more powerful foes than Wonder Woman, e.g Wraith. Wraith stomped Wonder Woman but Superman managed to fight him all across the world, to the moon and the core of the Earth. Or what about Doomsday? He one shotted Wonder Woman in a weaker form and then overpowered her in Doomed but then Superman stepped up to the ring and owned Doomsday twice.

    You may feel it is inconstant, and you can make any excuse you like but it happened cause' apparently stats aren't everything, Superman is strong but when match with someone close to his powers but with higher skill he seems to fall apart quickly. Superman saving the day was to justify his presence to be there. If Diana would of beat Doomsday by herself Superman would have no reason to be in that issue so of course he had to do something. Doomsday is as strong as Superman, so Superman being able to rip him in half is another scene that falls apart under scrutiny.

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    Saren

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    That Superman beating Kara falls apart under scrutiny. The doppleganger was buffed somehow, because why was he impervious to heat vision, and physical attacks? Doesn't add up, specially when regular Superman isn't imperious to those things and has shown to be hurt by them.

    Heat vision and physical attacks are not uniformly powerful regardless of who uses them. The clone was not impervious to heat vision or physical attacks; it started falling apart after Superman blasted it in the face with heat vision. It may have been impervious to Supergirl's heat vision because she's not as powerful as her cousin. The doppelganger was not buffed; if he was, present evidence to that effect. That you disagree with the outcome does not qualify, and is a fairly terrible grounds for falling apart under your scrutiny.

    The Doomsday that broke Diana's arms is not the same Doomsday who was exhibiting poison to anything in his radius. Wraith kicked Superman across the continent like a soccer ball too, and was showing complete dominance in there scraps.

    Exactly --- that Doomsday was more powerful than the one that crushed Wonder Woman, and Superman ripped it apart. Wraith was clearly stronger than Superman, and Clark himself testified to that, but Wonder Woman could do nothing to stop him while Superman devised two different plans to beat him during their fight, one of which almost worked until Wraith created kryptonite rays, and one that did work and took Wraith down. If the idea is to present evidence of the character's respective effectiveness in combat, how does that not qualify?

    You may feel it is inconstant, and you can make any excuse you like but it happened cause' apparently stats aren't everything, Superman is strong but when match with someone close to his powers but with higher skill he seems to fall apart quickly. Superman saving the day was to justify his presence to be there. If Diana would of beat Doomsday by herself Superman would have no reason to be in that issue so of course he had to do something. Doomsday is as strong as Superman, so Superman being able to rip him in half is another scene that falls apart under scrutiny.

    Justify his presence, don't make me laugh. Superman doesn't fall apart against opponents because of higher skill, he falls apart so Wonder Woman can be at least slightly relevant in the team-up because otherwise she doesn't contribute anything that he's not already packing. If Superman was half as competent in Superman/Wonder Woman as he is in his own books, there would be no need for Wonder Woman's presence at all. I consider it a minor miracle that Soule didn't do something stupid like having Wonder Woman's "skills" magically make up for Doomsday's overwhelming physical superiority like some of her fans think should be the case. Doomsday has not been as powerful as Superman for at least a decade now, and Doomed didn't change that at all. The last time Doomsday and Superman could be compared or that it could be argued that Doomsday was stronger was in Our Worlds at War, which ended in 2001.

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    TDK_1997

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    The eternal argument if Superman or Wonder Woman would win is still going on. And the big problem is that it is always the same arguments for Diana and people underestimating Superman nad in the same time overrating Wonder Woman.

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    reaverlation

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    I stand by what I said.

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    ariesxmasters

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    @saren said:

    Heat vision and physical attacks are not uniformly powerful regardless of who uses them. The clone was not impervious to heat vision or physical attacks; it started falling apart after Superman blasted it in the face with heat vision. It may have been impervious to Supergirl's heat vision because she's not as powerful as her cousin. The doppelganger was not buffed; if he was, present evidence to that effect. That you disagree with the outcome does not qualify, and is a fairly terrible grounds for falling apart under your scrutiny.

    Exactly --- that Doomsday was more powerful than the one that crushed Wonder Woman, and Superman ripped it apart. Wraith was clearly stronger than Superman, and Clark himself testified to that, but Wonder Woman could do nothing to stop him while Superman devised two different plans to beat him during their fight, one of which almost worked until Wraith created kryptonite rays, and one that did work and took Wraith down. If the idea is to present evidence of the character's respective effectiveness in combat, how does that not qualify?

    Justify his presence, don't make me laugh. Superman doesn't fall apart against opponents because of higher skill, he falls apart so Wonder Woman can be at least slightly relevant in the team-up because otherwise she doesn't contribute anything that he's not already packing. If Superman was half as competent in Superman/Wonder Woman as he is in his own books, there would be no need for Wonder Woman's presence at all. I consider it a minor miracle that Soule didn't do something stupid like having Wonder Woman's "skills" magically make up for Doomsday's overwhelming physical superiority like some of her fans think should be the case. Doomsday has not been as powerful as Superman for at least a decade now, and Doomed didn't change that at all. The last time Doomsday and Superman could be compared or that it could be argued that Doomsday was stronger was in Our Worlds at War, which ended in 2001.

    But you see that still makes no sense, she should be able to make that copy feel a punch, she was able to knock regular Superman flying away. That clone was buffed in some form he should of not have been tanking her punches and heat vision it just doesn't add up.

    Superman ripping apart Doomsday like that was complete BS, Doomsday was said to be as strong as Superman in the New 52, yet Superman rips him in half like a sheet of paper, yeah, okay, sure, that's not nonsense at all. Superman beating Wraith was also bogus, Superman took him to the center of the earth then proceeded to start blabbing something about powers not working down there because of some yada yada yada, but then flies out of there, like what I thought powers didn't work, and even if there powers were weakened down there Wraith still should have had the advantage since they would both be lowered the same amount.

    To bad intellect has not been one of his "Super" features for a long time, which is fine for multiple reasons so I won't get into that. Skills in something can take you a long way just, just because someone is bigger than me doesn't necessarily mean all hope is lost especially in this case. Superman, Doomsday and whoever else you wanna put in that category is not so ahead of Wonder woman that it is a complete blow out like you guys want to make it, what I mean is: Can Wonder Woman inflict damage on Superman? Yes. If she gets a fatal blow in can she put Superman out of business? Yes. Can Wonder Woman react to Superman? Yes, Can she make him feel a punch? Yes. It was stated in New 52 Action Comics that Doomsday was as strong as Superman. Do I really need to dig through this computer and show you, Saren? I like Superman as much as the next guy, but I also like Wonder Woman as well

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    Lvenger

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    @ariesxmasters: Fine I'll ignore the Wally West issue, this isn't about him after all.

    That Superman beating Kara falls apart under scrutiny. The doppleganger was buffed somehow, because why was he impervious to heat vision, and physical attacks? Doesn't add up, specially when regular Superman isn't imperious to those things and has shown to be hurt by them.

    Saren's already rebutted this point but I'll give it a go too. I don't see how it falls apart under scrutiny, because simply put, Superman is obviously more powerful than his cousin by a significant margin. Whereas she could barely keep up with a holding back Flash, Superman managed to tag him in his first outing. Where Supergirl was barely holding back whilst fighting Superman across China, Superman was holding back all the time and took minor damage from Kara's attacks. Where Supergirl hurt her hands whilst bullrushing H'El, Superman manged to stagger and even harm the more powerful Kryptonian. I could go on but suffice to say, there are ample examples where Superman is clearly his cousin's superior. Scott Lobdell said the difference in power was akin to the physical difference between a fit adult and a 16 year old girl.

    You may feel it is inconstant, and you can make any excuse you like but it happened cause' apparently stats aren't everything, Superman is strong but when match with someone close to his powers but with higher skill he seems to fall apart quickly. Superman saving the day was to justify his presence to be there. If Diana would of beat Doomsday by herself Superman would have no reason to be in that issue so of course he had to do something. Doomsday is as strong as Superman, so Superman being able to rip him in half is another scene that falls apart under scrutiny.

    If this were a street level battle, I would be more inclined to agree with you. Skill, experience and tactics tend to be the criteria for winning those. Not so much in powerhouse battles as skill isn't everything in those kinds of battles. You say Superman is useless against someone who matches his powers and is more skilled but you do not grasp the fact that Wonder Woman is not close to Superman in powers anymore. Sure she can bleed him and bruise him and her weapons might harm him but she lacks the feats to compare to Superman in strength, speed, durability and versatility. I made a list of all the best feats Superman got in 2014, what has Diana done that's close to them?

    @lvenger said:
    • 2 planetary strength feats, one of moving Warworld into the Phantom Zone and the other of moving Brainiac's ship, which was several times bigger than Earth and falling at 36,000mph. Alongside the "Lifting the Earth for 5 days" insanity.
    • Overpowered Doomsday and was stated to be the only hero capable of doing so.
    • Used a container ship like a battering ram (and based on their Deadweight Tonnage scale, can weigh 6,000 tonnes on average)
    • Punched Wraith from Earth to the moon (a distance of 238,855 miles)
    • Withstood being thrown by Wraith from The Gobi Desert to Anapurnas (a section of The Himalayas) and then crashing through several mountains as well as them collapsing on him. A Mult Mountain busting attack only broke 2 of Superman's ribs and he was still able to fight Wraith.
    • Survived the shockwave of a planetary explosion as well as large chunks of the planets crashing into him (Not quite a planetary durability feat but it's still very impressive nonetheless)
    • And then there's the fact Superman survived being dragged into a black hole and a flight back to Earth which took 2 months to finish. Easily the rival of Hulk's recent star feat from Infinity.

    As for Doomsday, you can't deny what happened on panel I'm afraid. Twice Diana went up against Doomsday and twice she got her behind handed to her. In contrast, twice Superman went up against Doomsday and twice he defeated the monster. That's undeniable proof that Superman is clearly Diana's superior, and skill can't match up to Superman's raw power.

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    SodamYat

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    This is close. Cant decide.

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    ariesxmasters

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    #76  Edited By ariesxmasters

    @lvenger:

    Saren's already rebutted this point but I'll give it a go too. I don't see how it falls apart under scrutiny, because simply put, Superman is obviously more powerful than his cousin by a significant margin. Whereas she could barely keep up with a holding back Flash, Superman managed to tag him in his first outing. Where Supergirl was barely holding back whilst fighting Superman across China, Superman was holding back all the time and took minor damage from Kara's attacks. Where Supergirl hurt her hands whilst bullrushing H'El, Superman manged to stagger and even harm the more powerful Kryptonian. I could go on but suffice to say, there are ample examples where Superman is clearly his cousin's superior. Scott Lobdell said the difference in power was akin to the physical difference between a fit adult and a 16 year old girl.

    I don't want to bring Flash into this so I'm just going to skip over that sentence. Whether Superman took minor damage or not he still was flinching and getting knocked back from the punches, he was not standing there tanking them like that clone was, so just off that difference you know something was wrong with that clone. I know Kara is not his equal, but she is more than close enough to make Superman feel a punch, like Aquaman and Wonder Woman can. H'el was beating all of there tails Superman, Supergirl and Superboy they stood no chance.

    If this were a street level battle, I would be more inclined to agree with you. Skill, experience and tactics tend to be the criteria for winning those. Not so much in powerhouse battles as skill isn't everything in those kinds of battles. You say Superman is useless against someone who matches his powers and is more skilled but you do not grasp the fact that Wonder Woman is not close to Superman in powers anymore. Sure she can bleed him and bruise him and her weapons might harm him but she lacks the feats to compare to Superman in strength, speed, durability and versatility. I made a list of all the best feats Superman got in 2014, what has Diana done that's close to them?

    Sorry, Lvenger, but when you can "bleed him and bruise him and her weapons might harm him" I don't consider you that far behind, because apparently you can inflict damage on the person. Now if it was Frank Castle vs Superman than that is different, Frank cannot inflict any kind of damage on Superman unless he talks to Batman and gets his hands on some kind of Kryptonite, but he wouldn't, so that's void, anyway in that fight it is a complete stomp Frank cannot do anything to Superman while, Superman can easily beat Frank. For Wonder Woman that is so much not the case she can inflict damage and hurt him. The only feat you need to see and worry about is the one where Wonder Woman was beating Faora, while Superman was falling apart against Zod. Superman has been on earth longer than them yet they went to town on him, so what did it come down to? Who was the better fighter. Zod said he is strong, but he is no warrior which basically meant he doesn't know how to fight he just depends on his powers and hopes his opponent is weaker. Wonder Woman was having no problems from what I recall.

    As for Doomsday, you can't deny what happened on panel I'm afraid. Twice Diana went up against Doomsday and twice she got her behind handed to her. In contrast, twice Superman went up against Doomsday and twice he defeated the monster. That's undeniable proof that Superman is clearly Diana's superior, and skill can't match up to Superman's raw power.

    You're right I can't and won't deny what is on panel as long as you don't either, and take into consideration that beating Zod and Faora was giving Superman, while Wonder Woman was doing fine. Now as I said above I like both character and try to keep a pretty level headed argument, and take both side low and high into consideration to try to keep it as balanced as possible. Which is why I say it could go either way.

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    ZhuRong

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    We have yet to see Superman to bust a planet in canon within the past decade or so but he's supposedly the "strongest superhero". What a joke. I will just stick to Marvel where every character isn't a subordinate to one character.

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    TDK_1997

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    @agent41: I am not trying to deny anything, I am just trying to state the obvious. Every single fan, of both Superman and Wonder Woman, knows the outcome of a battle between the two. The winner is more than obvious even if Diana gives him a helluva beating or a contest at least. I am just annoyed that WW fans always say that we are overrating Supes and that Diana would win but sometimes, when they decide to be reasonable, they even THEY point out the truth - that no matter what happens Diana would lose. And that, my dear friend, is driving me crazy.

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    TDK_1997

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    @agent41: Well at moments like that all you need to do is just ignore the ignorant comments and show no irritation by it or anything like that. Because in the end it always ends with flame wars or a Wonder WOman/Superman fan posting some terrible proof and feats for either character. I am not talking anyone personally but for this thread I think all of us should see and listen to what @saren is saying because at least in my opinion, he is right.

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    Lvenger

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    #81  Edited By Lvenger

    @ariesxmasters:

    I don't want to bring Flash into this so I'm just going to skip over that sentence. Whether Superman took minor damage or not he still was flinching and getting knocked back from the punches, he was not standing there tanking them like that clone was, so just off that difference you know something was wrong with that clone. I know Kara is not his equal, but she is more than close enough to make Superman feel a punch, like Aquaman and Wonder Woman can. H'el was beating all of there tails Superman, Supergirl and Superboy they stood no chance.

    Well you kind of have to here considering that these examples compare how Superman and Supergirl fared in tagging Barry Allen. The same guy that can work through a warzone of bullets as if it's in slow motion in the New 52. Anyway, you're really grasping at straws here and it's showing since the clone shrugged off Kara's attacks with ease for their fight yet took noticeable damage from Superman's punches and heat vision. It would be folly to deny how that shows how much more powerful Supergirl is than Superman. Moreover, lots of beings can 'make Superman feel a punch' but can those same beings beat Superman in combat? Most probably not since they lack the power, speed and versatility to compete with Superman. I've proven the notable power difference between New 52 Superman and Wonder Woman in that CAV link I gave you.

    Sorry, Lvenger, but when you can "bleed him and bruise him and her weapons might harm him" I don't consider you that far behind, because apparently you can inflict damage on the person. Now if it was Frank Castle vs Superman than that is different, Frank cannot inflict any kind of damage on Superman unless he talks to Batman and gets his hands on some kind of Kryptonite, but he wouldn't, so that's void, anyway in that fight it is a complete stomp Frank cannot do anything to Superman while, Superman can easily beat Frank. For Wonder Woman that is so much not the case she can inflict damage and hurt him. The only feat you need to see and worry about is the one where Wonder Woman was beating Faora, while Superman was falling apart against Zod. Superman has been on earth longer than them yet they went to town on him, so what did it come down to? Who was the better fighter. Zod said he is strong, but he is no warrior which basically meant he doesn't know how to fight he just depends on his powers and hopes his opponent is weaker. Wonder Woman was having no problems from what I recall.

    I'd consider it 'that far behind' because where Wonder Woman struggles to catch falling planes and aircraft carriers, Superman can catch falling ships bigger than Earth itself. Where Wonder Woman was one shotted by the First Born 3 times and even KOed by a featless Minotaur, Superman tanked multi mountain busting attacks and the collateral shockwave of a planet's destruction. Where Wonder Woman blocks bullets, Superman can pick over a dozen out of the air. You can harp on about Wonder Woman's skill edge till the cows come home but the difference between Pre New 52 and New 52 versions of these characters is this; In terms of feats and showings, Superman is a clear level and then some above Wonder Woman in most categories. I've given you numerous examples already which reinforce this notion. Diana can't apply her skill because Superman outmatches her in power, strength, speed, versatility etc.

    You're right I can't and won't deny what is on panel as long as you don't either, and take into consideration that beating Zod and Faora was giving Superman, while Wonder Woman was doing fine. Now as I said above I like both character and try to keep a pretty level headed argument, and take both side low and high into consideration to try to keep it as balanced as possible. Which is why I say it could go either way.

    Trying to trick me with a double standard argument won't work I'm afraid. It's easily rebutted when I bring up the consistency factor. Wonder Woman somehow handling Zod and Faora better than Superman did is equivalent to a scientific anomaly in an experiment. An outcome outside the established norm expected in test conditions. In contrast, Superman fought much better against Wraith, Doomsday and H'El, all of whom were beating Wonder Woman rather handily. Those fit the consistency of power rankings that place Superman way above Diana compared to the closer pedestal they were on Post Crisis. Where was Diana's skill advantage with those foes hmm? Furthermore, I'm also a fan of both Superman and Wonder Woman (even current versions) and also keep level headed arguments on the battle forums based on logic, reasonable probability and empirical evidence. Which is why I sustain Superman easily beats Diana as of now, it's subject to change based on whether the writers give her an amp.

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    ZhuRong

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    Technically, Superman is being depicted as more powerful than any League member right now. Then we have his fanbase rubbing it in our faces of how much better he is than any of our favorite member. Look at how the JL got stomped by Doomsday but Superman flies in and saves the day. Welp! No point in having a league when we can just have Superman beating the crap out of any threat to the Earth. Like I stated, the League aren't being portrayed more than subordinates to Superman. We should just put a crown on Superman's head and make the other JL members bow down like the peasants they are.

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    ariesxmasters

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    @zhurong said:

    Technically, Superman is being depicted as more powerful than any League member right now. Then we have his fanbase rubbing it in our faces of how much better he is than any of our favorite member. Look at how the JL got stomped by Doomsday but Superman flies in and saves the day. Welp! No point in having a league when we can just have Superman beating the crap out of any threat to the Earth. Like I stated, the League aren't being portrayed more than subordinates to Superman. We should just put a crown on Superman's head and make the other JL members bow down like the peasants they are.

    Yeah, Okay, just stop it, Zhurong, whether Superman is strong enough to solo the whole Marvel & DC Universe at the same time or weak enough to lose to Bane doesn't take away from the other characters in the Justice League. To say that only Superman matters is just ridiculous and feels very contributed, because it is not true or else he would be the only one in there, which he obviously is not true. No one the Justice League is any less important than Superman.

    Just about every character can be replaced on the Justice League when you think about it, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Superman could pretty much replace each other. They could just buff and tweak Wonder Woman or Aquaman a little and go from there. They can easily think of a way to justify Batman using some kind of computer magic, and have him use a machine like the Justice League Buster or something along those lines to fight with instead of him just going normal, they could say the same thing for Cyborg as well. So, no, every character has a viable function regardless of how powerful they are.

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    FoamBorn

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    @zhurong: And Superman will receive a new power this week, his most destructive power yet which he will harness eventually.

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    Saint_Sophie

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    #85  Edited By Saint_Sophie

    All characters can be lowballed or wanked. Diana's no exception. No need to get so pissed over a fictional character losing.. Nor do you guys need to get so uptight over someone not agreeing eith you. Sweet Jesus. Okay, I admit I can do this too so who am I to talk lol.

    Truth be told though, current Diana is kind of overrated (but still fun to read hehe).

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    ariesxmasters

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    All characters can be lowballed or wanked. Diana's no exception. No need to get so pissed over a fictional character losing.. Nor do you guys need to get so uptight over someone not agreeing eith you. Sweet Jesus. Okay, I admit I can do this too so who am I to talk lol.

    Truth be told though, current Diana is kind of overrated (but still fun to read hehe).

    Lol I agree with you, Sophie. The character that gets more overrated is the one who has more fans in the thread at the time.

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    Saint_Sophie

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    ZhuRong

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    @ariesxmasters: @foamborn: It won't be long before Superman start performing Pre-Crisis level feats. It is a fact that the League members are subordinates to Superman and Wonder Woman is one of the main ones. Even his fans know it, that is why they're here trolling her. The name "Justice League" is just a nice way of saying "Superman and the Struggle". I'm not including Batman in this because that is a whole nother topic. I could care less about some buffs just to please the fans. How about DC start treating Wonder Woman and the other League members with as much respect and dignity as Superman.

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    FoamBorn

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    #89  Edited By FoamBorn

    @ariesxmasters said:

    Lol I agree with you, Sophie. The character that gets more overrated is the one who has more fans in the thread at the time.

    There's so many of us here and she's so outrageously overrated that she's behind with 39%, which I know is actually a very good result considering that her real chance of winning is approximately 0.

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    ariesxmasters

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    #90  Edited By ariesxmasters

    @zhurong:

    Haha, yeah, When Superman does start doing Pre-Crisis feats is when probably stop reading his stuff lol.

    Lol good thing you left out Batman, because I was gonna say they're subordinates of Batman if anyone, but I guess Superman is second in line. Like I said earlier though pretty much anyone on the Justice League can replace anyone very easily. I like Superman in all, but there are some instances where Superman is easily laughed at just as hard here is a example I cracked up when I saw this.

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    Bezza

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    Is WW really that far behind Superman in the New 52? I know she doesn't have bench pressing the earth feats and all that, but she did wade into First Born and got up after being piledriven into the earth by that character, which Is more than Orion managed, a character who stalemated Superman, and a Lobdell written Superman at that.

    Another thing, WWs sword was shown in "Superman for Tomorrow" to be able to cut Supes, being magical and all that, so in an all out fight, I reckon she goes down giving him some nasty damage. I.e. its not a stomp.

    Just being devil's advocate here, as I like both these characters.

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    hyperbeing

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    @bezza said:

    Is WW really that far behind Superman in the New 52? I know she doesn't have bench pressing the earth feats and all that, but she did wade into First Born and got up after being piledriven into the earth by that character, which Is more than Orion managed, a character who stalemated Superman, and a Lobdell written Superman at that.

    Another thing, WWs sword was shown in "Superman for Tomorrow" to be able to cut Supes, being magical and all that, so in an all out fight, I reckon she goes down giving him some nasty damage. I.e. its not a stomp.

    Just being devil's advocate here, as I like both these characters.

    Didn't she do that in her " God Mode" which she goes into when she takes off her bracelets.

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    Madflavor

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    We Super Solar Flare now!

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    ariesxmasters

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    @bezza said:

    Is WW really that far behind Superman in the New 52? I know she doesn't have bench pressing the earth feats and all that, but she did wade into First Born and got up after being piledriven into the earth by that character, which Is more than Orion managed, a character who stalemated Superman, and a Lobdell written Superman at that.

    Another thing, WWs sword was shown in "Superman for Tomorrow" to be able to cut Supes, being magical and all that, so in an all out fight, I reckon she goes down giving him some nasty damage. I.e. its not a stomp.

    Just being devil's advocate here, as I like both these characters.

    No she is not as far as every who is very pro Superman on this thread is making it sound. Saying it is a stomp is a stretch, when Obviously Wonder Woman has just as much chance as stabbing Superman as he does hitting her, he cannot break her lasso, her sword could easily kill him if she stabs him right.

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    Bezza

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    @bezza said:

    Is WW really that far behind Superman in the New 52? I know she doesn't have bench pressing the earth feats and all that, but she did wade into First Born and got up after being piledriven into the earth by that character, which Is more than Orion managed, a character who stalemated Superman, and a Lobdell written Superman at that.

    Another thing, WWs sword was shown in "Superman for Tomorrow" to be able to cut Supes, being magical and all that, so in an all out fight, I reckon she goes down giving him some nasty damage. I.e. its not a stomp.

    Just being devil's advocate here, as I like both these characters.

    Didn't she do that in her " God Mode" which she goes into when she takes off her bracelets.

    Yes you're right and I am aware of that. But even without taking the bracelets off she is hardly a pushover and in fact is one of the few JL characters who could actually kill Superman thanks to that sword.

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    hyperbeing

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    @bezza said:

    @hyperbeing said:

    @bezza said:

    Is WW really that far behind Superman in the New 52? I know she doesn't have bench pressing the earth feats and all that, but she did wade into First Born and got up after being piledriven into the earth by that character, which Is more than Orion managed, a character who stalemated Superman, and a Lobdell written Superman at that.

    Another thing, WWs sword was shown in "Superman for Tomorrow" to be able to cut Supes, being magical and all that, so in an all out fight, I reckon she goes down giving him some nasty damage. I.e. its not a stomp.

    Just being devil's advocate here, as I like both these characters.

    Didn't she do that in her " God Mode" which she goes into when she takes off her bracelets.

    Yes you're right and I am aware of that. But even without taking the bracelets off she is hardly a pushover and in fact is one of the few JL characters who could actually kill Superman thanks to that sword.

    I never meant to say she was unable to hold her own in a fight with him. I just wanted to clarify the god mode thing as i was uncertian if it was accurate or not cause i was reading a respect thread for her.

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    reinhardjanssenwijaya

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    ww

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    MaZeRaIII

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    Superman.

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    Klaus

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    arkhamace

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    diana is very dangerous! heat vision has no effect on diana because the bracelets will reflect that. durability and strength will go to superman but with the new introduced god mode she is maybe like a sundip superman? clark has freeze breath and speed but diana has her sword and fighting. many writers does like to make her weaker as supes but i think diana is stronger as supes. She won against supergirl in her own damn comic book. She could bring wonder girl and supes is history.

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