wonder woman's villans.

#1 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

as many people must know,wonder woman's villans have been treated poorly many times in the past,this affects wonder woman's own image,as her powerhouse statu is questioned by some people,because they have seen her villans getting owned by street level characters,and from all the main powerhouses,wonder woman's villans are probably the ones that had the worst treatment in the past.

what is you oppinion?,what they should do to change this?.

i think is all about stories,first her villans need more development and exposure outside the wonder woman's title,they need a good exposure outside her title,show them doing something important besides fighting wonder woman.

feats are also very important,her villans have been used as the punching bag of street level characters too many times,their lack of presence and good showings outside wonder woman's title affect wonder woman as she doesn't have a true iconic villan on her own,even though many of her villans have the potential to be iconic and they have what they need to be true powerhouses.

so i think they should give her villans more showings outside the wonder woman's title,let them be powerful villans not just for wonder woman,they need to be great villans outside wonder woman's title,for example,cheetah should have some relevant super strength showings,her speeder statu should be more developed,her psychotic,jealous and selfish nature should be more developed as well.

dr psycho has the potential to be a powerful telepath,there are so many tyhings he could do,and her obsession with wonder woman needs to be analyzed with more depth.

so what do you think?.

#2 Edited by lilben42 (2531 posts) - - Show Bio

Circe: Deception as Wonder Woman stands for the truth

Ares: War as Diana stands for peace

Cheetah: I guess um... hate as Diana stands for love

These are her top three villains so these need the most exposure. Writers need to really focus on those main points. I think it would make them much more interesting.

#3 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42: cheetah is everything diana stands against,cheetah is a killer,she loves to kill,she is selfish,she hates society and she has contempt for life,all the oppiste to diana,dr psycho has an obsession with diana,a love-hate relationship with her,so dr psycho and cheeah have a lot of potential,but as i said,they need to be treated better outside wonder woman's title,they need more development,and more feats,we don't see enough of their capabilities either,and let's face it,wonder woman needs villans with story and with feats that make them look like a thread outside wonder woman's title,their presence and powerhouse statu outside wonder woman's title needs to be developed.

#4 Edited by Pokeysteve (8264 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

Circe: Deception as Wonder Woman stands for the truth

Ares: War as Diana stands for peace

Cheetah: I guess um... hate as Diana stands for love

These are her top three villains so these need the most exposure. Writers need to really focus on those main points. I think it would make them much more interesting.

Nailed it!

#5 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: what do you think about wonder woman's villans outside her title?,i think they really need more development and better feats to stand up to their powerhouse status,and become relevant villans for the DC universe like joker,darksied and not be just wonder woman's irrelevant villans.

#6 Edited by PowerWoman (3347 posts) - - Show Bio

My point it is,a female kryptonian

#7 Posted by Pokeysteve (8264 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: what do you think about wonder woman's villans outside her title?,i think they really need more development and better feats to stand up to their powerhouse status,and become relevant villans for the DC universe like joker,darksied and not be just wonder woman's irrelevant villans.

She has a couple that are pretty major threats. Cheetah is finally getting some recognition. Circe has taken on the heroes of DC. It's Ares turn for some major attention. Old school Ares anyways. Not pathetic old man Ares. I don't consider Joker a DC threat. He's Batman's problem.

#8 Edited by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

Circe: Deception as Wonder Woman stands for the truth

Ares: War as Diana stands for peace

Cheetah: I guess um... hate as Diana stands for love

These are her top three villains so these need the most exposure. Writers need to really focus on those main points. I think it would make them much more interesting.

Nailed it!

Nailed it indeed.

Circe and Cheetah probably make the most sense to appear outside of Wonder Woman's title. Ares, being part of the Greek pantheon, is hard to bring in without bringing in that entire pantheon, which isn't going to work in a story with Batman, Flash, etc. But Cheetah and Circe can make that move more easily (I realize Circe is also part of Greek mythology, but her comic version is divorced enough from that that she can make the transition).

I also like Dr. Psycho and wish he would come up more. He's a fun character and a good foil to Wonder Woman in so many ways. It's a shame he's so rarely done well.

#9 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:

as i said to other users,i think that wonder woman's villans really need more development and better feats to stand up to their powerhouse status,and become relevant villans for the DC universe like joker,darksied and not be just wonder woman's irrelevant villans,i want to see them doing something important that affects the DC universe and not just wonder woman,i want to see them outside wonder woman's title getting the feats that the powerhouses like them should get,showing to be a thread not just for wonder woman,with good writters we can see this happening outside wonder woman's solo title.

#10 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: when i said joker i was talking about iconic status,wonder woman needs her own iconic villans,and her villans have the potential to be icons,i want to see them doing something important that affects the DC universe and not just wonder woman,and i want to see them outside wonder woman's title getting the feats that the powerhouses like them should get,showing to be a thread not just for wonder woman,with good writters we can see this happening outside wonder woman's solo title.

#11 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

There was actually a wonderful story with Ares and his kids possessing some Batman villains a few years back.

#12 Edited by Pokeysteve (8264 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: when i said joker i was talking about iconic status,wonder woman needs her own iconic villans,and her villans have the potential to be icons,i want to see them doing something important that affects the DC universe and not just wonder woman,and i want to see them outside wonder woman's title getting the feats that the powerhouses like them should get,showing to be a thread not just for wonder woman,with good writters we can see this happening outside wonder woman's solo title.

In that case I agree and Cheetah could fill that role perfectly. She's getting there.

There was actually a wonderful story with Ares and his kids possessing some Batman villains a few years back.

Gods of Gotham. I think that's collected in the Paradise Found TPB. Good story.

#13 Posted by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

In that regard, it seems to me that Dr. Psycho would have a lot of potential for other titles if someone could write him well. Compared to Marvel, DC doesn't have all that many psychically powered characters, and Dr. Psycho could be an interesting addition.

#14 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: i don't think she needs a kriptonian villan,her villans have the potential to be icons,i want to see them doing something important that affects the DC universe and not just wonder woman,and i want to see them outside wonder woman's title getting the feats that the powerhouses like them should get,showing to be a thread not just for wonder woman,with good writters we can see this happening outside wonder woman's solo title,that's what her villans need.

#15 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: yes dr psycho has potential,i want to see her villans doing important things outside wonder woman's title,getting respect feats outside her title,she and her villans need to be treated right outside her solo title.

#16 Posted by SoA (4777 posts) - - Show Bio

dr psycho is in superboy' book currently

#17 Edited by Evil Incarnate (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

I think what would help is if there was a massive storyline centered around WW. Many would say that Flashpoint brought her to the forefront and although it did she wasn't facing a unique enemy tailored to her and she wasn't the one to save the day. Furthermore I've always believed that a superhero is only as good as their enemies. One of the many reasons that Batman and Superman outclass WW in sales, books, etc is because their enemies are just as iconic as they are. I suggest two things the first being introduce new powerful enemies that truly test Diana in power and skill this would help cement her as a true martial artist if she had someone who regularly matched her and caused her to use her skills as an Amazon.Second is to put some of her enemies outside of her title to help grant them greater exposure and I think that there are a few that can crossover for example...

Circe: Zatanna, Dr. Fate, Captain Marvel

Dr. Psycho: Batman, Red Hood, Birds of Prey,Titans

Cheetah: Flash, Supergirl

Ares: Captain Marvel

Giganta: Teen Titans,

Silver Swan: Birds of Prey

#18 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: i agree,i think her villans need more good exposure(GOOD!)in the way that they need to prove theor worth as powerhouses and as villans.

and new villans can be good too,her biggest nemessis should be someone with a similar origin,a warrior born with god blessings that gone bad,tired of feeling used by the gods,it'd be interesting to see diana's dark male counterpart.

#19 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

The villains could help, but DC's treatment of Wonder Woman is and always has been the key to her success. Her creator gave her everything she needed making her the first stand out, iconic female superhero. He gave her a classic warrior background through her ties to mythology which also easily leant her the wonder of magic.

He gave her villains with dark psychological edges which Diana would try to not only stop but fix. Cheetah's jealousy, Dr. Psycho's shovanistic/hateful/little man syndrome, Silver Swan's manipulated anger, the Baroness's power suppressed by her make counterparts.

Writers who fail to take this plentiful playground of three dimensional, psychologically motivated characters and spin gold is sad beyond words. To focus on only one aspect(mythology, warrior, romance, femininity, hero, activist, feminist) signals a serious disconnect with the character.

Wonder Woman is not and never has been just one dimensional and neither have her villains.

Wonder Woman just needs someone penning her who believes in the character, not just writing an amazon. And she needs a company that gives her the same respect they give her male counterparts, Superman and Batman whom hardly ever go drastic revamps.

#20 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri: we should buy wonder woman's rights,lol,DC really doesn't get it,woner woman and her villans need full development and proper feats outside her solo title to get the fame and respect they deserve,to entratain and show their worth.

#21 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

She was almost creator owned with a clause in her creator's estate where DC could lose her if she is not used in a certain amount of time.

#22 Posted by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

She was almost creator owned with a clause in her creator's estate where DC could lose her if she is not used in a certain amount of time.

So we should all stop buying her books and save the money so that when DC cancels her series cancelled we can afford to buy the rights! Piece of cake.

#23 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: DC doesn't do a right job,leave it to me,i would writte her for free and show them how is done,lol,seriously,sometimes i think they should let a fan writte for a while,we have a better vision about what to do with her than her own company.

#24 Edited by dshipp17 (981 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate said:

I think what would help is if there was a massive storyline centered around WW. Many would say that Flashpoint brought her to the forefront and although it did she wasn't facing a unique enemy tailored to her and she wasn't the one to save the day. Furthermore I've always believed that a superhero is only as good as their enemies. One of the many reasons that Batman and Superman outclass WW in sales, books, etc is because their enemies are just as iconic as they are. I suggest two things the first being introduce new powerful enemies that truly test Diana in power and skill this would help cement her as a true martial artist if she had someone who regularly matched her and caused her to use her skills as an Amazon.Second is to put some of her enemies outside of her title to help grant them greater exposure and I think that there are a few that can crossover for example...

Circe: Zatanna, Dr. Fate, Captain Marvel

Dr. Psycho: Batman, Red Hood, Birds of Prey,Titans

Cheetah: Flash, Supergirl

Ares: Captain Marvel

Giganta: Teen Titans,

Silver Swan: Birds of Prey

I agree with the poster who started this thread that it's time to develop Wonder Woman's own villains, particularly, Dr. Psycho, as opposed to creating new villains. The strategy of every writer who comes on the helm of the Wonder Woman title creating their own villains as opposed to using Wonder Woman's existing villains has been a bad plan since George Perez left, and I really liked the Messner-Loebs, Gail Simone, and JMS runs. I just cannot understand at all why Dr. Psycho has not been made into Wonder Woman's Joker or Luther yet and the complete lack of even an effort with Dr. Psycho by DC since the JMS run. As an earlier poster says, he could be a very good foil to all of the noble ideas about Wonder Woman's character based mostly on reputation as opposed to by actual in the comic demonstrations and examples outside of circumstances where the qualities are the easiest to demonstrate; the last good Wonder Woman story in such a respect was Wonder Woman #168, volume 1, that immediately comes to mind; after that issue, a very unique story line seemed to just be abandoned and was never addressed again. In later years, they attempted to recoup the premise behind that story line with the creation of the Silver Swan, but, for the foil that's necessary for Wonder Woman, this idea desperately requires the use of Dr. Psycho. Although the romance with Superman has now made this a bit more difficult, work needs to be done with developing Dr. Psycho as a Wonder Woman foil, similar to the way Joker is a Batman foil and Luther is kind of a Superman foil. Although Cheetah has clearly been experimented on as a Wonder Woman foil since the Superfriends, I think she’s probably more of a Two Face type for Wonder Woman, and, now, efforts need to be put to Dr. Psycho.

#25 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17: well i think that messner-loeb were very bad runs,but i agree that dr psycho needs more development,he has an obsession with wonder woman and that could be the start for amazing story lines,and then his powers,DC could have one proser X in their hands,they should take the oportunity to create a really badass telepath with dr psycho,give him amazing psychic power,teleportation ability,force field,the ability to read minds combined with his ability to crerate illusions,and they could give him spcial durability and reaction speed related to his mental powers,so he can take hits from people like wonder woman and can keep up in a fight with people as fast as her too.

the rest of her big villans,silver swan,circe,cheetah and ares need to have the proper feats outside her comic too,they need to be treated like powerhouses outside wonder woman's title,they already have the power,ares is a god,silver swan created by a god,she hasenough power to fight powerhouses like wonder woman,circe is a powerful sorceress,she can do a lot of things with her magic,even enchant herself to have abilities similar to wonder woman,cheetah is the avatar of a god,with god like powers like wonder woman,so they are very powerful, they just need to be treated properly in comics outside wonder woman's title.

#26 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri: well,DC better start to do a better job with her and her villans outside her own title,they need respect and be the powerhouses that they are supposed to be.

#27 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

We need to get an idea what wonder woman villains stand for. They need a good quote or something that make you know who they are. They need to challenge Wonder Woman’s morals. This even includes her B-level villains. Is there anyone question the ethics, now that she is likely to kill? Is there one kill that caused effect just like the Shredder from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

#28 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@hazlenaut:

we already know that,silver swan/valerie)manipulated anger,dr psycho's hatful little man syndrome and his obsession with wonder woman,cheetah's jealousy,psychotic and selfish nature,her contempt for life,she is everything that wonder woman stands against,ares and his ambition for power and control,and his desire of making wonder woman his perfect warrior in a world full of war where he would be the supreme master,circe-deception as wonder woman stands for truth.

these villans need to have the proper feats outside her comic too,they need to be treated like powerhouses outside wonder woman's title,they already have the power,ares is a god,silver swan created by a god,she hasenough power to fight powerhouses like wonder woman,circe is a powerful sorceress,she can do a lot of things with her magic,even enchant herself to have abilities similar to wonder woman,cheetah is the avatar of a god,with god like powers like wonder woman,so they are very powerful, they just need to be treated properly in comics outside wonder woman's title.

#29 Posted by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Before they get carried away bringing the villains into the larger DCU, I think they need to use them to ground Wonder Woman in her own title for a bit. As much as I like the New 52 run, it's been a bit too focused on personal drama and struggles. Azzarello more or less retconned away the Amazon traditions that had motivated Wonder Woman for so long, but he hasn't really replaced them with anything yet. I know she wants to protect the baby and all, but what is her long-term goal? What does she stand for now that her foundation has been shattered? None of these things are clear, and her villains (for all the reasons we've been discussing here) are probably the best way to get that back on track.

#30 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: well it's true that we should start for bringing her villans back to her book,but they will also need to have proper development and feats outside her title,something that was missing in many of their ppearances in other comics before the new 52.

#31 Posted by dshipp17 (981 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Very creative suggestions for updating Dr. Psycho to make him a more formidable villain for Wonder Woman. I really like it and I hope DC is taking notes.

#32 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17: yes,i think dr psycho has a lot of potential,and i think all her villans need to have the proper feats outside her comic too,they need to be treated like powerhouses outside wonder woman's title,they already have the power,ares is a god,silver swan created by a god,she hasenough power to fight powerhouses like wonder woman,circe is a powerful sorceress,she can do a lot of things with her magic,even enchant herself to have abilities similar to wonder woman,cheetah is the avatar of a god,with god like powers like wonder woman,so they are very powerful, they just need to be treated properly in comics outside wonder woman's title.

#33 Posted by PowerWoman (3347 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder woman is stronger than herc

I'm hope her' villans has more muscle strength not skills

#34 Posted by ItsDaveyJ (196 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like to see Wonder Woman have another villain. One that poses less of a physical threat and more of a ideological or philosophical threat. Ideally, since WW is such an iconic feminist figure... I'd like her villain to be someone who is also a strong feminist but the two clash about methods/purpose/etc. of some aspects of feminism. As such, this could make for a villain who can evolve with WW with the times to have their conflict change based upon whatever issues are currently effecting women.

#35 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

Characters like Doctor Cyber or Doctor Poison need to be used more in villain teams like the Secret Society or something.

#36 Posted by entropy_aegis (15255 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman has villains?

#37 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Great OP. You nailed. I´ve always said Wonder Womans problem is that writers focus way to much on her, as if she´s a problem that needs fixing. Even in Rucka and Gails run which I loved. What WW needs is to have good showdowns, a consistent supporting cast, Steve Trevor back where he belongs and possibly a city that reflects in some way what her character is. DC needs to build upon her mythos, not annihilate everything that came before. It just makes her story confusing, and perception of her in the public eye becomes ever more schitzophrenic. who are her villians? whats her city? who are her supporting cast? what does she stand for? what is her origin? these are questions frequently asked and people are right to because they are just constantly being messed around with.

Ares, Dr Poison, Dr. Psycho, and Alkyone and even Veronica Cale need to be brought back into her mythos and start making an impact on the DC universe. For instance WW and Superman are now dating, this would be a great time for Cale and Lex to get together and cook up something dastardly don´t you think. These are all great characters and they need to be treated as such.

#38 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26:for Dr Poison, Dr. Psycho, and Alkyone and even Veronica Cale to come back they need a power upgrade,they can't be a part of wonder woman's mythos if they can be one shotted,maybe dr poison could be like luthor,without powers but being of of the greatest minds in the world,she can come up with good plans to take down powerhouses.

#39 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Cale is supposed to be a legal threat

Poison could be like Toyman, posing more of a threat to those that Diana can't save in time

Psycho is supposed to b just that, a psychic threat. Not physical

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