Wonder Woman clay origin was in her original debut. Wonder Woman Dec 1941. Here is the Image to prove it. So I don't know where u got this idea.

@usagitsukino: Yeah it's weird when people say that the clay origin started with Perez. I actually liked the details of Marston's origin more. It was simper and I think it offered a better explanation for her powers.

Perez greatly expanded on the clay origin and told it in a way that it became a unique storyline involving all the major goddesses of Olympus. The original clay baby story isn't nearly as critical to the GA character as the Perez origin is to Post-Crisis Diana. And it's Perez who makes her powers 100% tied to the clay baby origin rather than based on Amazonian skills. GA wonder woman was born of clay, but the origins of her powers are still tied to Amazonian skills she learned in order to become WW. Perez WW was blessed at birth and all of her powers were tied to her being the clay baby. The scan above shows her birth, but IMO that's not the whole "origin" of GA WW.

However in Marston she was not the only child. Perez she was. I don't want her to be blessed by the gods but her training. She is Wonder Woman because she as shown she is the strongest amazons. Couldn't she be blessed after winning. I find it much fairer it shows she earned it by her training not by her being blessed. You might be right since she did have her own comic strips and they expanded much more of the amazons origins and Wonder Woman's

don't get me wrong I do love Perez's run.

Perez's run is in many ways the definitive work on WW ... despite not being her originator, he reinvented the character and brought attributes to her that will always be part of her mythology. I consider the clay baby origin his because of how he used it, not because it didn't exist before he came along. His use of it fundamentally changed WW.

Was she not the only child made from clay in the golden age origin? I think I've heard that before but the only scan I've seen makes it sound like she was the only one. Or at least the only one to be blessed. I need to buy a copy of the of the Golden Age trades and the comic strip collection when it comes out too. I loved the Perez's run too. It did a great job setting the tone for the post crisis but I think he over complicated the mythology.

I think it his her powers grew over time so it was fair when she fought in the challenge, and she was weak enough to have reason to go through the training. But she didn't really earn her powers though and it seemed unnecessary. Plus the whole first women slain by men and unborn fetus thing while having some symbolic value seemed kinda unnecessary.

I liked the golden age explanation more. The blessing were actually fairly mundane, but gave her a divine connection that she could use to enhance the psionic abilities the Amazons taught her. I'm not sure if they ever explained it exactly that way but that's how I interpreted it, and it lets her earn her powers as well as validates her training. I also think that a divine connection is something that unlike the blessing that could never be taken away from her unwillingly.

Having her earn the blessings after she wins the challenge is another possibility, but I think it still opens them up to be taken away in a way that a divine connection and psionic training doesn't.

@muffin_sangria:

There is a comic on her seven birthday where we see her with other children. Also there is a comic newspaper in which we see amazons making clay children. This connected with her comics in GA

@usagitsukino: Were the other ones created with the help of the gods or were the other ones created more by science? I assume at the very least she was the only one with "blessings".

@muffin_sangria:

Aphrodite would being them to life. As for a blessing we really don't know. In fact I think it's neither blessing or her ego. U see without their bracelets they give in their violent ego. Marston created the bracelets to keep their egos in check. It's not wrong to imagine before their bracelets the amazons would have amazing feats. So when we see her pulling tree it might have been her ego.

@usagitsukino: There are a lot of thing I prefer about the GA origin but I think Pereze had the right idea with making her the only child. In post crisis did they follow up with the other children at all or did the writers just ignore that after Marston died, and recanted her as the only child?

@muffin_sangria:

No, after Marston died they still kept it however we don't see it. They don't do much on a childhood. We don't see the amazons creating babies out of clay. It's only in the news comics in which we see this so all the golden age as to keep it. As for the other runs I really don't know but it's not until Post Crisis.

We really don't know but I believe it was until Post Crisis she was not the only child. I fine that unfair that only the queen can have a child. All the other amazons should have a child as well if they want to. Why should Hippoltya get a kid when many want a child to.

@usagitsukino: Well in post crisis the basic explanation was that the queen was the only one who wanted a child. I like her being the only child. It sets her apart and makes her special. I'd prefer it if the other Amazons were just normal women with extraordinary training, and happened to be made immortal by staying on their island. Of course in post-crisis the other Amazons were also reborn souls with minor blessings so that wasn't exactly true there either.

I'm not really an expert on the old comics but I think they might have recanted it so that she was the only child in the silver age. When they ditched the clay origin all together and said she was born before the island was settled I think it was said that she was the only child. That led to the first Wonder Girl who was created as a magical duplicate of herself so that she would have a friend to play with as a kid. Eventually that Wonder Girl was recanted in favor of Dona Troy. Later when the clay origin was reinstated I think they kept with her being the only child.

It's possible I'm totally wrong here and just pulling things out of my ass.

@muffin_sangria:

The amazons are normal women. Hippoltya as well. There are normally women.I fine that un fair. I mean many women want children as well. Just because it sets her a part wouldn't she get bored a child who spends her time with adult will never be able to have a childhood. In fact it's the writers job to make her set a part. I mean you can say she become the greatest amazons the teachers have ever seen. U can just say because she is the only kid on the Island it sets her apart. That's just a easy way of doing it. You have to be creative in how she is set apart. It's not what you write but how u write it. For example all of her amazon feats done in GA can be example of her ego. I mean many are going to compare her to her mother and what her mother did. How fast her mother was. She wanted to prove to the amazon she can be as good as her mother or better. She did these amazing feats. Since she is a princess many still have higher expectations than most. Many of the amazons want to see Diana be great since her mother is.

@usagitsukino: Well when the rest of the Amazons are just at peek human levels, and she's a top tier power house there needs to be a little more explanation to the difference then just personal drive. I think making her the only child makes for a more interesting story too, and Hippolyta being the only one who wanted a child is a good enough explanation for me. If any of the other Amazons really wanted children they could leave the island in search of that, but it might mean that they're no longer allowed to return.

@muffin_sangria:

Couldn't she be blessed by the gods? I mean Aphrodite only brought them to life not blessed them with gifts. Why should the amazons leave to have kids? They could easily do the same with clay origin. It seems she was blessed by the gods in GA.

I mean contest shouldn't be easy for her. I want to see the amazons put up a nice challenges. Why couldn't she be because of her training and when we think about it couldn't it be genetics? I mean it's her daughter. For example the whole blood thing that add is cool.

I never considered the clay origin to be a problem. I would think that the over all origin would be considered problematic because it's more complex than Superman or Batman's. You have three aspects of it: 1)Who are the Amazons and how did they get to Paradise Island 2)The creation of Princess Diana from clay and 3)How Princess Diana became Wonder Woman and her reasons for coming to Man's World.

By making her a demi-goddess you still have the other two aspects of her origin to deal with. Yeah it's shorthand for non-comic readers. Spider-man bitten by radioactive spider, Batman's parents murdered, swore to avenge them, Superman last of a dying planet of super beings, Wonder Woman daughter of a god. But from a creative point of view shouldn't they have just created a new superhero and called her "Athena" if they were going to define her for the masses as being the daughter of a male, ancient Greek god? I don't necessarily like the Amazon's being wary of men and the no-men-allowed island, although I understand it's an important part of the mythos. But I really do like the idea that she's the daughter of Queen Hippolyta given life by the goddess Aphrodite.

@agent008: well the clay baby origin included her being given life and powers by 5 goddesses and a god not just a quick blessing. The demigoddess bit is a twist to the story that makes for an interesting new set of circumstances ... As for the Amazons it's easy enough to explain why and how they got to PI ... Gods set them there to guard dooms doorway is an easy audience friendly short hand that owns part of the story without going into every detail of the history.

@csg_cl: Originally she was just given life by Aphrodite, but just as vulnerable as the other Amazons. It wasn't until the 1960s that a later writer altered her origin and had her powers being attributed to the blessings of various goddesses as well as adding the ability to glide on air currents.

The gods send them Amazons to guard dooms doorway? I thought they were still written as leaving "Man's World," after being enslaved by Hercules and his men.

@agent008: like the clay origin it's shifted a number of times. Depends on the author and the era ... Sorry for not being more clear in my earlier post. My meaning was how to easily position it for movie audience not to imply that is the true or even most recent interpretation.

@csg_cl: Oh, for a movie audience I would agree with you. Well, depending actually. I think it would be too difficult, time wise, to explain Wonder Woman's origin in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, or in a JLA film so I don't have a problem with the Zeus origin. I didn't have a problem with Burton's Batman origin either.

But for a comic reading audience I don't see how it's any easier for new readers to get into Wonder Woman with the new Azzarello origin. If I picked up a random issue from his run I'm pretty sure I would be lost if I weren't already familiar with the character. I don't think her origin is the what has kept the character from having strong sales, I think it has more to do with the stories and her presentation. With Spider-man and Batman I can list some very excellent runs from their respective titles. Wonder Woman I can't, aside for the original Marston/Peter tales.

@agent008: agreed ... I was referring to movie specifically earlier. The Demi-goddess bit is new and was really more of a plot device to shake up her world a bit. Azzarello sprung it out there as a twist to even WW ... Needless to say it's been a hot topic

This is at least the third time this thread has been started. The other two times Clay got more votes. Obviously a lot of fans have just given up on these forums since then.

@agent41:

I've read George Perez's run and it was better than I expected, well written and illustrated. But I didn't particularly care for any of the characters or the stories. Rucka's run was also well written but it just didn't grab me.

Clay.

How does a story centered around the journey of a bastard demi-goddess grab anyone?

@wonderwomanfan8: How's a machine designed by the Gods to serve and worship them better? Evil's never even had a chance to claim Wonder Woman because her heart is suffused with love that Aphrodite put there. And while prosperous without men, the Amazons aren't women. Had the Gods bestowed those gifts upon a troop of monkeys they'd be just as capable of living peacefully inside a self-sustaining glass dome which was also a gift.

Themyscira should be a small and peaceful nation of mortal women living somewhere deep in the Amazon Rainforest, so fearsome and famous that even the most powerful patriarchal nations wouldn't dare go to war with them. And they should have unicorns and kitsune living there as well, marshmallow-yielding trees and whisky rivers, wouldn't that just be a lot better

The same definition apply to humankind, according to many prominent religions. She is human like Adam or Pandora would be (if they existed).

If zeus is her father then she is a product of ultra incest, so no thank you.

Incest was rampant throughout Greek mythology ... Zeus was married to his sister, Hades married his niece, Aphrodite was married to her brother ... there are dozens of examples of it ... Oedipus? But even so, there is no mention of Hippolyta being related to Zeus in the DC Universe although in Greek Myth she was supposedly the daughter of Ares which would make Zeus her Grandfather, but I'm not sure incest really counts when you consider these are beings that are immortal and magically based.

@hawk80: Religion that views people as sheep to whom they sell hope and reap power and control. Different strokes for different folks I guess, I'm pleased with what we have now. As the daughter of Zeus she's more humane and in control of her own destiny, she inherited the God's capacity for evil and was brought up at the heart of a badly prejudiced society yet none of that tarnished her heart. She grew up around darkness but didn't yield to it, it's a sign of strength. On the other hand the pre-52 Wonder Woman grew up in Paradise, shielded from the harshness of reality, where she and the Amazons lived selfishly for three millennia, oblivious to the suffering of their tyrannized sisters from the godforsaken world of Men.

@agent41: She can keep that personality being the daughter of Zeus but for me, having been conceived in sin makes her principles all the more meaningful actually

An I could have lion heads on my body and call myself Voltron.

De gustibus non disputandum est, I suppose...

@csg_cl: I know, that's why my answer is no. Don't matter who you are, humping your sister is never ok.

@dwightspitz: meh, mythological creatures don't have the same rules as human genetics. Humping your sister who is also a creature of myth isn't quite the same thing as humping your human sister

@archizoom If you want evil wonder woman I suggest you go back and watch the justice lord episodes from justice league, or flashpoint paradox wonder woman, to your hearts content. She's already got enough haters that despise her for being the "man-hating feminazi". What good will evil focused stories do for her character now?

You can show character development and growth in Diana by showing that although she was once upon a time designed by the gods to be their champion, she eventually moved away from their expectations of her, to carve out her own path. "For a long time, my sole duty was to serve and do the bidding of the gods. They had great expectations of me. But lately, I now see that I have my own destiny to pursue..."

And if the amazons aren't supernatural women, then what are they? This is mythology we're talking here, not the freakin' planet of the apes.

@agent41: I reckon having Zeus for a father won't signal the death of Wonder Woman's morals I mean she can still be a virtuous, dedicated hero, the difference being that those qualities were learnt and developed as opposed to imparted to her by the goddess Aphrodite which in my opinion makes her commitment all the more admirable. As for the Amazons, I like mine a little scary and mean and most of all I like them human, of all shapes and sizes too. The Amazons didn't rape the man they had sex with, the sex was consensual as far as I was able to glean. They killed them afterwards like females in some animal species do. For me the Amazons should've evolved past such barbarity but I can't go back to the divine-empowered flawless supermodels living within the confinements of a giant dome like domestic animals because in my mind that's even worse. This run was far from faultless but it's so quaint and fresh, all I'd like to see rectified is the nation's stagnancy and some aspects of Wonder Woman's personality.

The problem is, there is no long-term story potential with her being the daughter of Zeus. There's no dramatic tragedy, no obstacles to overcome, no great responsibilities to be reluctant to adhere to because of that. It's now just...Your parents got together and now you're just here...That's it...I guess you all got what you wanted, Wonder Woman: simplified. Problem solved? Not to me...

That works fine for the story that azzarello has told thus far, even though it's a change I still don't think he needed to make. But I don't see it working long-term. The likelihood of some writer down the line messing it up it to the point of retcon seems likely IMO.

Not to mention that her personality is totally off, considering her new background. She grew up as a unique individual, but not in a good way. She is "clay" to other amazons, living a lie known to every amazon but her.
Were they these perfect actors? Even if she didn't suspect anything at all (are she this naive?), she would at least perceive that something was off. How can someone grow up in this sick environment and no become a person full of doubts and an frustrations?

Amazons were confortable with their lie? I can't believe that a proud race which did everything they did for millennia would effectively (and willingly) live a lie like this, negating what they were for the dubious sake of the princess. Wasn's she the heir to the throne? The one destined to continue and protect their way of life? The best of them, in a warrior - sexraiding - murderous way?

Where her morals came from? Even if her morals were totally anachronistic for an ancient-greek-warrior society, she wouldn't understant good and evil in a modern way. And even if she would, can you imagine the clash of ideologies between her and everyone else for the fist 20 years of her life? What kind of angry and/or insecure person would she need to be now?

You don't make this kind of changes glossing over the inevitable fact that she can't be anything like her prevous self...

This new origin can't lead to a wonder woman, so she isn't WW to me.

@hawk80: The Amazons lied to protect Diana from Hera, it's not a life-changing lie for them I think. I don't see why knowing Wonder Woman was a bastard child of Zeus would be so burdensome to be honest, and how it jeopardizes their societal integrity. While the Amazons engage in murderous mating rituals, they're not necessarily completely void of morals, they inculcated some in Diana who didn't know about their sexraiding expeditions btw. She grew up into an open-minded girl in a narrow-minded environment which makes Wonder Woman all the more special actually. Wonder Woman's always been about culture-clashing with the Men's world and I think it's rather nice that the two worlds she's divided between have something to learn from one another as opposed to having divinely-engineered women, who spent 3000 years in an island doing god knows what, teaching people how to live.

@agent41: Because Wonder Woman was built to be perfect and live accordingly. Since the Gods were sometimes selfish the anti-evil machine they built turned against them. Rucka's Wonder Woman was nauseatingly flawless, like a cloying sweet dessert that needs a good squeeze of lemon juice.

@agent41: When did she admit to wanting to kill her opponents? She killed Maxwell Lord because that was the right decision to make given the circumstances. Wonder Woman can still doubt herself sometimes, have insecurities and all the qualities she used to have. I don't know what else to say that I haven't said already, I think she comes across appreciably less preachy now and I think we have more important things to worry about concerning Wonder Woman.

@agent41: I found this here so cross all your fingers and toes

And stay tuned for writer Brian Azzarello and artist Cliff Chiang’s epic finale this October. In WONDER WOMAN #35 they tackle the definitive origin of Wonder Woman in the New 52, but saying more would spoil all the surprises – and there will be plenty!