The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.
He got it from silver age Wonder Woman who has a similar ability
Doesn't really make it less of an ass-pull though. You don't see Superman busting out his super-hypnosis out of nowhere to defeat villains.
Well just saying it did not come from is ass.... and since Wonder Woman has pretty much a 52 new origin.... it makes sense in this case for a new power to emerge. At least to me it does
Well just saying it did not come from is ass.... and since Wonder Woman has pretty much a 52 new origin.... it makes sense in this case for a new power to emerge. At least to me it does
Yeah, sure, I'm not opposed to new powers, but this is not a good way to introduce them.
Though I suppose Billy's right, Azzarello does tend to explain things later on, so I'll hold my breath.
DIdn't her original origin have something about Amazons having to wear bracelets because if they ever took them off, they would go beserk? One of Wonder Woman's villains was a former Amazon who took off her bracelets and went beserk.
Maybe the bracelets hold her back like how Lee(Naruto) uses weights to condition himself and the weights hold himself back.
Yeah, they really need to explain why Wonder Woman was willing to use it against Artemis but not against Hera. Heck, Artemis even let Hermes go so that he could escape with Zola while Hera constantly sent monsters to try to kill Zola, not to mention how Hera also cursed (killed?) the Amazons.
She hasn't displayed any new powers. In fact, even though the issue was great, I was a bit disappointed that all she did after removing the bracers was just run and beat up Artemis. The moment didn't nearly live up to its hype.
Yeah, they really need to explain why Wonder Woman was willing to use it against Artemis but not against Hera. Heck, Artemis even let Hermes go so that he could escape with Zola while Hera constantly sent monsters to try to kill Zola, not to mention how Hera also cursed (killed?) the Amazons.
It seemed to me that WW was just used to having them restrain her. She probably has only taken them off a few times in her whole life in this new universe. And there is something to be said about desperation. This was her last chance to win. The moment she was done kicking ass, she put them back on and as she herself has said, they are a defense for her opponents, not her.
I don't like the whole bracelet thing from last issue.
Why?
Well I didn't like the divine aura. I just felt wrong to me. I get why it could apply to her because of the new divine origins but I just don't like it. I also felt it took away from the more grounded feeling I was getting off of her earlier in the series. Also I don't like how it puts her on par with the gods. Sure she is half god now but still. They should be untouchable big bads. Now she can totally wreck them? Her opponents IMO should be their minions like the Minitours Kings, Cyclops, Gorgons and other demi gods. If she does defeat a god it should be through some other means. Now just how powerful does the taking the bracelets off make her? On par or more powerful then Superman? I wouldn't like her more powerful then him. It would also be bad IMO if taking them off made her equal to Superman because then she would have to go into battle without them on. Which I wouldn't like the look of. It's like she's not wearing her full costume. I get why Azz did that. Not only does it reference the whole bound thing WW had in the past but it kinda explains the power discrepancy I always felt the Amazons had. WW was suppose to have gained these great superpowers far above other amazons but for some reason they were still able to go toe to toe with her. I get it. I just don't like it. There are a few more reasons but that's off the top of my head. Anyway that's just my opinion.
Hmmm... Well I disagree with your reasons. Wonder Woman has taken on the gods before in Post Crisis. Having her be limited to the minions of the gods is not a good idea IMO. It would be like making Batman unable to match Two-Face in a fight. Not sure why she would have to take them off to go into battle but I have no problem with her being more powerful than Superman. We will have to see on that one though since all we know is that taking them off implies that her power is greatly increased. We do not know how close she is to Superman right now anyway. Besides that, even if she is more powerful than Superman right now, it would not last. Superman is a character that always gets stronger. None of the Amazons were ever able to go toe to toe with her unless Diana was sparring, in which case it was a friendly fight. She obviously was just playing.
Hmmm... Well I disagree with your reasons. Wonder Woman has taken on the gods before in Post Crisis. Having her be limited to the minions of the gods is not a good idea IMO. It would be like making Batman unable to match Two-Face in a fight. Not sure why she would have to take them off to go into battle but I have no problem with her being more powerful than Superman. We will have to see on that one though since all we know is that taking them off implies that her power is greatly increased. We do not know how close she is to Superman right now anyway. Besides that, even if she is more powerful than Superman right now, it would not last. Superman is a character that always gets stronger. None of the Amazons were ever able to go toe to toe with her unless Diana was sparring, in which case it was a friendly fight. She obviously was just playing.
In my eyes at least there is a huge difference between Bruce Wayne/Two Face and WW/Gods. She may have faced gods in the past but I always felt like she was the underdog going into the fight. I never did like how she could end up killing characters like Ares the way she did. Setting her fighting rogues on the level of other Demi gods, or other god empowered beings is a larger and more interesting tier to be in IMO. It also doesn't mean she can face off against gods. Just that she has to find another way to defeat them.
If she needed to take them off to be on par with Superman then ya she would have to take them off during JLA business. It's going to be a threat no one leaguer can face on their own so she would need to fight at her best. I would have problem with her being more powerful. Regardless of how I feel about the Superman character one of his things is being the most powerful and IMO Wonder Woman shouldn't be more so. There were a few instances that showed they were on par. The circle where yes they got defeated but it was by WW being just a little bit better. Also Artemis seemed on par with her. IIRC and I might not they fought a couple of times and they were on the same level.
Anyway like I said it's just how I feel about it and I know/accept how you feel.
Yeah, they really need to explain why Wonder Woman was willing to use it against Artemis but not against Hera. Heck, Artemis even let Hermes go so that he could escape with Zola while Hera constantly sent monsters to try to kill Zola, not to mention how Hera also cursed (killed?) the Amazons.
It seemed to me that WW was just used to having them restrain her. She probably has only taken them off a few times in her whole life in this new universe. And there is something to be said about desperation. This was her last chance to win. The moment she was done kicking ass, she put them back on and as she herself has said, they are a defense for her opponents, not her.
But there was no reason for her to fight Artemis at all. Apollo got what he wanted and he didn't care about Zola or the child. Heck, Artemis even let Hermes go so that he could escape with Zola.
Wonder Woman's battle against Hera was more desperate since Hera was relentless in her pursuit of Zola and she was willing to do anything to get her. Not to mention the fact that Hera cursed (killed?) the Amazons. It makes no sense for Wonder Woman not to use her powers against Hera since Hera was doing much more horrible and destructive things than Artemis.
But there was no reason for her to fight Artemis at all. Apollo got what he wanted and he didn't care about Zola or the child. Heck, Artemis even let Hermes go so that he could escape with Zola.
Wonder Woman's battle against Hera was more desperate since Hera was relentless in her pursuit of Zola and she was willing to do anything to get her. Not to mention the fact that Hera cursed (killed?) the Amazons. It makes no sense for Wonder Woman not to use her powers against Hera since Hera was doing much more horrible and destructive things than Artemis.
Strife put the idea in Apollo's head that Zola's baby might be the one that kills one of the gods to take the throne. Since Apollo is now on the seat of that throne, what do you think he would have done had WW not confronted him and Artemis?
Strife put the idea in Apollo's head that Zola's baby might be the one that kills one of the gods to take the throne. Since Apollo is now on the seat of that throne, what do you think he would have done had WW not confronted him and Artemis?
That's actually another plot hole since Apollo already knew about the prophecy in the very first issue so it mades no sense for him not to already think that Zola's baby was what it talked about. Also, Apollo hadn't actually taken any actions against Zola. In fact, he let Hermes escape with Zola.
Anyway, the main point was why Wonder Woman didn't use that power against Hera since Hera was actually actively trying to kill Zola. Even if Apollo had intended to go after Zola, he hadn't done anything yet. So why would Wonder Woman come down so hard on someone who might try to hurt Zola but didn't do that against someone who actually tried to kill Zola not once but several times, and who also cursed her mother and her Amazon sisters?
Strife put the idea in Apollo's head that Zola's baby might be the one that kills one of the gods to take the throne. Since Apollo is now on the seat of that throne, what do you think he would have done had WW not confronted him and Artemis?
That's actually another plot hole since Apollo already knew about the prophecy in the very first issue so it mades no sense for him not to already think that Zola's baby was what it talked about. Also, Apollo hadn't actually taken any actions against Zola. In fact, he let Hermes escape with Zola.
Anyway, the main point was why Wonder Woman didn't use that power against Hera since Hera was actually actively trying to kill Zola. Even if Apollo had intended to go after Zola, he hadn't done anything yet. So why would Wonder Woman come down so hard on someone who might try to hurt Zola but didn't do that against someone who actually tried to kill Zola not once but several times, and who also cursed her mother and her Amazon sisters?
He allowed Hermes to escape because WW was standing, ready for action.
She did not use the full range of her powers against Hera because she was busy wrestling with Artemis.
If Wonder Woman is anything like her Post Crisis counterpart in character, she will not lead with her biggest guns so to speak. You might as well ask why Superman does not simply nuke Lex Luthor from orbit. I see no plot holes, just plot.
Strife put the idea in Apollo's head that Zola's baby might be the one that kills one of the gods to take the throne. Since Apollo is now on the seat of that throne, what do you think he would have done had WW not confronted him and Artemis?
That's actually another plot hole since Apollo already knew about the prophecy in the very first issue so it mades no sense for him not to already think that Zola's baby was what it talked about. Also, Apollo hadn't actually taken any actions against Zola. In fact, he let Hermes escape with Zola.
Anyway, the main point was why Wonder Woman didn't use that power against Hera since Hera was actually actively trying to kill Zola. Even if Apollo had intended to go after Zola, he hadn't done anything yet. So why would Wonder Woman come down so hard on someone who might try to hurt Zola but didn't do that against someone who actually tried to kill Zola not once but several times, and who also cursed her mother and her Amazon sisters?
He allowed Hermes to escape because WW was standing, ready for action.
She did not use the full range of her powers against Hera because she was busy wrestling with Artemis.
If Wonder Woman is anything like her Post Crisis counterpart in character, she will not lead with her biggest guns so to speak. You might as well as why Superman does not simply nuke Lex Luthor from orbit. I see no plot holes, just plot.
That's actually another plot hole since Apollo already knew about the prophecy in the very first issue so it mades no sense for him not to already think that Zola's baby was what it talked about. Also, Apollo hadn't actually taken any actions against Zola. In fact, he let Hermes escape with Zola.
Anyway, the main point was why Wonder Woman didn't use that power against Hera since Hera was actually actively trying to kill Zola. Even if Apollo had intended to go after Zola, he hadn't done anything yet. So why would Wonder Woman come down so hard on someone who might try to hurt Zola but didn't do that against someone who actually tried to kill Zola not once but several times, and who also cursed her mother and her Amazon sisters?
He allowed Hermes to escape because WW was standing, ready for action.
She did not use the full range of her powers against Hera because she was busy wrestling with Artemis.
If Wonder Woman is anything like her Post Crisis counterpart in character, she will not lead with her biggest guns so to speak. You might as well ask why Superman does not simply nuke Lex Luthor from orbit. I see no plot holes, just plot.
You're missing the point. I wasn't talking about Wonder Woman using her powers against Hera in issue 12. I was talking about Wonder Woman not using her powers against Hera in all the previous issues. Issue 12 is not the first time Hera tried to kill Zola. Hera tried to kill Zola several times in the past. Why didn't Wonder Woman use her powers against Hera any of those times? Why didn't Wonder Woman use her power against Hera when she sent those centaurs to kill Zola? Why didn't Wonder Woman use her powers against Hera after she cursed the Amazons? Why didn't Wonder Woman use her powers against Hera the second time she sent centaurs to kill Zola?
As for not leading with her biggest guns, she just led with her biggest guns against Artemis. Again, Artemis and Apollo hadn't even tried to kill Zola yet but Hera tried to kill Zola at least twice, or maybe three times depending on how you count it, before even making the deal with Apollo. By your own logic, Wonder Woman using her power against Artemis rather than Hera would be like Superman dropping a nuke on Luthor just because Luthor was thinking about taking over the world but then only giving Brainiac a slap on the wrist after Brainiac launches a full scale invasion against earth.
As for letting Hermes go, again you're missing the point. The point is that Apollo allowed Hermes to escape with Zola. If Apollo really wanted to kill Zola then why did he let her escape? Heck, why did Apollo leave the Caduceus for Wonder Woman to find in the first place? If Apollo wanted Zola dead, he would have kept Hermes as a hostage and he would have kept the Caduceus so that they wouldn't be able to escape. Not to mention the fact that either Apollo or Artemis could have just stopped Wonder Woman from saving Zola after Hera threw her down the mountain. So again, clearly Apollo and Artemis didn't care about Zola, which made the fight with Artemis pointless.
You're missing the point. I wasn't talking about Wonder Woman using her powers against Hera in issue 12. I was talking about Wonder Woman not using her powers against Hera in all the previous issues. Issue 12 is not the first time Hera tried to kill Zola. Hera tried to kill Zola several times in the past. Why didn't Wonder Woman use her powers against Hera any of those times? Why didn't Wonder Woman use her power against Hera when she sent those centaurs to kill Zola? Why didn't Wonder Woman use her powers against Hera after she cursed the Amazons? Why didn't Wonder Woman use her powers against Hera the second time she sent centaurs to kill Zola?
As for not leading with her biggest guns, she just led with her biggest guns against Artemis. Again, Artemis and Apollo hadn't even tried to kill Zola yet but Hera tried to kill Zola at least twice, or maybe three times depending on how you count it, before even making the deal with Apollo. By your own logic, Wonder Woman using her power against Artemis rather than Hera would be like Superman dropping a nuke on Luthor just because Luthor was thinking about taking over the world but then only giving Brainiac a slap on the wrist after Brainiac launches a full scale invasion against earth.
As for letting Hermes go, again you're missing the point. The point is that Apollo allowed Hermes to escape with Zola. If Apollo really wanted to kill Zola then why did he let her escape? Heck, why did Apollo leave the Caduceus for Wonder Woman to find in the first place? If Apollo wanted Zola dead, he would have kept Hermes as a hostage and he would have kept the Caduceus so that they wouldn't be able to escape.
I think you are missing the point. Plot does not equal plot hole.
She did not lead with her biggest guns against Artemis. She had already wrestled with her just before that with the bracelets on.
Ah no. Not by my logic at all. I never said drop a nuke. Superman has no nukes. By "my" logic, Superman would nuke Lex from orbit and do whatever he needs to do to kill Braniac right away. And it really should not be my logic since it was really an exaggerated example of YOUR logic. You are the one that thinks WW should be dropping the bracelets whenever she sees a fight rolling in, not me.
So it turns out that Apollo happens to be a cat that likes to see how things play out rather than WTFPWNing everyone like you think he should. Apollo had the intention of killing the baby or at the very least, putting pieces in play that would result in the baby's demise. You know, some characters are like that. They rarely get their hands dirty themselves. Not sure why you are having a hard time wrapping your brain around it. It is basic stuff and lacks any complexity worth note.
I think you are missing the point. Plot does not equal plot hole.
She did not lead with her biggest guns against Artemis. She had already wrestled with her just before that with the bracelets on.
Ah no. Not by my logic at all. I never said drop a nuke. Superman has no nukes. By "my" logic, Superman would nuke Lex from orbit and do whatever he needs to do to kill Braniac right away. And it really should not be my logic since it was really an exaggerated example of YOUR logic. You are the one that thinks WW should be dropping the bracelets whenever she sees a fight rolling in, not me.
So it turns out that Apollo happens to be a cat that likes to see how things play out rather than WTFPWNing everyone like you think he should. Apollo had the intention of killing the baby or at the very least, putting pieces in play that would result in the baby's demise. You know, some characters are like that. They rarely get their hands dirty themselves. Not sure why you are having a hard time wrapping your brain around it. It is basic stuff and lacks any complexity worth note.
1. "A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot."
That's exactly my point. Wonder Woman used her powers against someone who hadn't yet become a threat but did not use her powers against someone who had already establish herself as a threat. It goes against the logic established by the story.
2. Except there's a huge difference between the fight she had earlier and the fight she had later. She wasn't even losing the fight in the beginning. So there was no reason for her to go from a fraction of her strength to 100%.
3. Did you read my post or even read the Wonder Woman comics? As I have said several times before, Hera was actively trying to kill Zola and tries to kill her several times throughout the series, Artemis had not tried to kill Zola once. Who was more of a danger and should be dealt with more harshly? Hera showed herself to be a much greater threat from the very beginning by trying to murder Zola in the very first issue of this series. It's very simple logic. Just think about this for one second. Who is more dangerous, the person who is actively trying to commit murder and has tried to commit murder (and who actually did kill/curse the Amazons) in the past or the person who might be thinking of trying to commit murder in the future?
And I never suggested that Wonder Woman should drop her bracelets in every fight. It was Wonder Woman who dropped her bracelets in a battle that didn't even need to be fought but was unwilling to drop them to fight battles that were actually necessary.
4. Again, you're missing the point. Apollo hadn't made any moves against Zola. Maybe he did have plans to kill Zola later but Zola was not in immediate danger. So what was the point of the fight with Artemis? If Artemis wasn't going after Zola, why did Wonder Woman have to fight her? Unless Wonder Woman was just planning to kill both Apollo and Artemis, fighting them there wouldn't prevent them from plotting against Zola in the future. And if Wonder Woman was willing to kill both Apollo and Artemis to prevent them from trying to kill Zola in the future then why didn't she try to kill Hera for actually trying to kill Zola?
"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot."
UMMM...We are in the middle of a story.... you can't determine plot holes until the end of a story. You just can't. It's by definition impossible. For example you can have 10 seasons of a show which you think is full of plot holes however the final episode can address them... If they leave some out and the show ends then you can go back and determine plot holes NOT before. Same thing applies to comics and every other story in history. "Plot holes" in comics usually come when a book switches writers. DC Comics use CRISIS EVENTS to fix plot holes on a DCu Wide scale. However FIX is a loose term because if they are fixed then the Plot hole never existed in the first place.... Thats the magic of telling a story :P
That's exactly my point. Wonder Woman used her powers against someone who hadn't yet become a threat but did not use her powers against someone who had already establish herself as a threat. It goes against the logic established by the story.
HUH? Artemis was a direct threat to Zola's baby. Its obvious after strife intervened Apollo had plans to kill Zola's baby. Why would Wonder Woman leave instead of settling the issue right there by beating the crap out of Artemis who was clearly ready to take diana on for Apollo
Hera Was a direct threat to Wonder Woman and Zola However at the time Hera was also reining Queen of Olympus. Why would she Attack and kill Hera and create even more chaos in Olympus. It makes way more sense to trick Hera and avoid killing or simply protect Zola's baby from Hera indefinetly. Also Wonder Woman may want Hera Alive so she can restore her mother and the other Amazons.... Honestly the reasons can be endless.
2. Except there's a huge difference between the fight she had earlier and the fight she had later. She wasn't even losing the fight in the beginning. So there was no reason for her to go from a fraction of her strength to 100%.
There can be a number of explanations which can easily be revealed later. This is a comicbook not a movie so we have to wait. Off the top of my head I can say this. Wonder Woman could probably beat Artemis without the power boost but she clearly can't beat Apollo. Wonder Woman releasing her powers and beating up Artemis easily for Apollo to see gave Apollo second thoughts about simply killing Wonder Woman and going after Zola's baby(he porbably thought it would be easy to do so like previously). Thus forcing him to make a deal with Wonder Woman. I will also Add that It would be stupid for Wonder Woman to attack Apollo even if she could kill him with her powers because the prophecy still stands and strife can easily manipulate the next in line for the thown into going after Zola like she did to Apollo.
3. Did you read my post or even read the Wonder Woman comics? As I have said several times before, Hera was actively trying to kill Zola and tries to kill her several times throughout the series, Artemis had not tried to kill Zola once. Who was more of a danger and should be dealt with more harshly? Hera showed herself to be a much greater threat from the very beginning by trying to murder Zola in the very first issue of this series. It's very simple logic. Just think about this for one second. Who is more dangerous, the person who is actively trying to commit murder and has tried to commit murder (and who actually did kill/curse the Amazons) in the past or the person who might be thinking of trying to commit murder in the future?
Again. It would be stupid for Wonder Woman to KILL Hera over Zola's baby... That would be an extremely risky thing to do.... Not only would it cause more chaos in Olympus it could easily turn Strife (neutral) and a few other gods against Wonder Woman like Hephastus Hera's son and even ZEUS since Wonder Woman has no idea where Zeus is....For all she knows he could just be hiding and Watching. Hera is Zeus WIFE! Add to that Wonder Woman probably sees why Hera is upset.. and can in small part sympathize with Hera. It would be REALLY out of character for wonder woman to just UP and kill Hera since Hera has a legit gripe against Zola's baby.... even if she is overreacting.
But there was no reason for her to fight Artemis at all. Apollo got what he wanted and he didn't care about Zola or the child. Heck, Artemis even let Hermes go so that he could escape with Zola.
No your wrong here. Yes Wonder Woman could simply have left and not fought Artemis. However, Strife persuaded Apollo to kill Zola's baby for fear that Zola's Baby will one day rise up and kill him (Apollo). It was Clear Apollo intended to go after the baby. Wonder Woman stayed to deal with that issue right then and there. I don't know how you missed that.
Wonder Woman is GREAT WRITING and makes perfect sense to me
I think you are missing the point. Plot does not equal plot hole.
She did not lead with her biggest guns against Artemis. She had already wrestled with her just before that with the bracelets on.
Ah no. Not by my logic at all. I never said drop a nuke. Superman has no nukes. By "my" logic, Superman would nuke Lex from orbit and do whatever he needs to do to kill Braniac right away. And it really should not be my logic since it was really an exaggerated example of YOUR logic. You are the one that thinks WW should be dropping the bracelets whenever she sees a fight rolling in, not me.
So it turns out that Apollo happens to be a cat that likes to see how things play out rather than WTFPWNing everyone like you think he should. Apollo had the intention of killing the baby or at the very least, putting pieces in play that would result in the baby's demise. You know, some characters are like that. They rarely get their hands dirty themselves. Not sure why you are having a hard time wrapping your brain around it. It is basic stuff and lacks any complexity worth note.
1. "A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot."
That's exactly my point. Wonder Woman used her powers against someone who hadn't yet become a threat but did not use her powers against someone who had already establish herself as a threat. It goes against the logic established by the story.
2. Except there's a huge difference between the fight she had earlier and the fight she had later. She wasn't even losing the fight in the beginning. So there was no reason for her to go from a fraction of her strength to 100%.
3. Did you read my post or even read the Wonder Woman comics? As I have said several times before, Hera was actively trying to kill Zola and tries to kill her several times throughout the series, Artemis had not tried to kill Zola once. Who was more of a danger and should be dealt with more harshly? Hera showed herself to be a much greater threat from the very beginning by trying to murder Zola in the very first issue of this series. It's very simple logic. Just think about this for one second. Who is more dangerous, the person who is actively trying to commit murder and has tried to commit murder (and who actually did kill/curse the Amazons) in the past or the person who might be thinking of trying to commit murder in the future?
And I never suggested that Wonder Woman should drop her bracelets in every fight. It was Wonder Woman who dropped her bracelets in a battle that didn't even need to be fought but was unwilling to drop them to fight battles that were actually necessary.
4. Again, you're missing the point. Apollo hadn't made any moves against Zola. Maybe he did have plans to kill Zola later but Zola was not in immediate danger. So what was the point of the fight with Artemis? If Artemis wasn't going after Zola, why did Wonder Woman have to fight her? Unless Wonder Woman was just planning to kill both Apollo and Artemis, fighting them there wouldn't prevent them from plotting against Zola in the future. And if Wonder Woman was willing to kill both Apollo and Artemis to prevent them from trying to kill Zola in the future then why didn't she try to kill Hera for actually trying to kill Zola?
Do you honestly think you are teaching me anything? I know what a plot hole is. There is not one in the current series. There you go confusing plot and plot hole again. Artemis and Apollo were threats. You do not get to choose when WW uses her power and to what degree. You certainly cannot make that call after only 12 issues.
Yeah. Because she took off the bracelets. Not seeing the problem with that.
You are questioning my Wonder Woman knowledge? Post Crisis, I have read every single Wonder Woman issue. Can you make that same claim? You have said it several times but you have yet to give a valid reason as to why you think WW should be pulling out all the stops on a regular. It is not simple logic at all. It is choice. You seem to think that one cannot be made without the other. Good thing you are not writing the stories. They would suck. How do you know she did not need to drop the bracelets to win? Did you see something in the mostly off-panel fight that everyone else was not able to see? Do you have some window into the writer's mind? Feel free to share this magical wisdom with us. I am sure you know more than even the writer does.
No. I am not missing any point. You are just making a poor and irrelevant one. Apollo had not made an active move against Zola but the intention was clear. Against a god any planned death, however far in the future, is immediate danger. Especially against the currently most powerful god. What was the point? Well you are asking a reader, not the writer. As much as it pains me to admit this, I know nothing more about it than you do... but only that specific topic. Everything else would be speculation and trying to have that discussion with you would likely be as unfulfilled and fruitless as this one is. Seems to me that fighting them happened to result in no further action against Zola and the baby so your closing statement is false.
"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot."
UMMM...We are in the middle of a story.... you can't determine plot holes until the end of a story. You just can't. It's by definition impossible. For example you can have 10 seasons of a show which you think is full of plot holes however the final episode can address them... If they leave some out and the show ends then you can go back and determine plot holes NOT before. Same thing applies to comics and every other story in history. "Plot holes" in comics usually come when a book switches writers. DC Comics use CRISIS EVENTS to fix plot holes on a DCu Wide scale. However FIX is a loose term because if they are fixed then the Plot hole never existed in the first place.... Thats the magic of telling a story :P
By that logic, there's no such thing as a plot hole because any plot hole, especially in comics, can just be rationalized or retconned later.
That's exactly my point. Wonder Woman used her powers against someone who hadn't yet become a threat but did not use her powers against someone who had already establish herself as a threat. It goes against the logic established by the story.
HUH? Artemis was a direct threat to Zola's baby. Its obvious after strife intervened Apollo had plans to kill Zola's baby. Why would Wonder Woman leave instead of settling the issue right there by beating the crap out of Artemis who was clearly ready to take diana on for Apollo
Except it was not obvious that Artemis planned to go after Zola's baby since she was the one who let Hermes escape with Zola. Plus Wonder Woman can't teleport on her own but the gods can. So if Apollo and Artemis wanted to kill Zola, they could have just teleported after her and left Wonder Woman stranded on Olympus.
Also, as I mentioned before, that was another plot hole since Apollo had already learned of the prophecy in the first issue.
Hera Was a direct threat to Wonder Woman and Zola However at the time Hera was also reining Queen of Olympus. Why would she Attack and kill Hera and create even more chaos in Olympus. It makes way more sense to trick Hera and avoid killing or simply protect Zola's baby from Hera indefinetly. Also Wonder Woman may want Hera Alive so she can restore her mother and the other Amazons.... Honestly the reasons can be endless.
And now Apollo is the king of Olympus so how is the situation any different? If anything, there's even less reason for Wonder Woman to go after Apollo since Hera was exiled so if Wonder Woman challenged and killed Apollo, there would be even more chaos because there'd be no one left to rule Olympus.
Also, I never said that Wonder Woman has to kill Hera. She could have just defeated her and made her promise to not go after Zola and restore the Amazons. Killing Hera would be a last resort, if she refuses to stop hunting Zola.
And how does it make sense to protect Zola's baby indefinitely? Because any time when Wonder Woman leaves Zola and the baby to fight other villains, Hera could send in monsters to kill them. So Wonder Woman would just leave the Justice League and stop fighting other villains for 16 to 20 years so that she could look after Zola and her baby?
2. Except there's a huge difference between the fight she had earlier and the fight she had later. She wasn't even losing the fight in the beginning. So there was no reason for her to go from a fraction of her strength to 100%.
There can be a number of explanations which can easily be revealed later. This is a comicbook not a movie so we have to wait. Off the top of my head I can say this. Wonder Woman could probably beat Artemis without the power boost but she clearly can't beat Apollo. Wonder Woman releasing her powers and beating up Artemis easily for Apollo to see gave Apollo second thoughts about simply killing Wonder Woman and going after Zola's baby(he porbably thought it would be easy to do so like previously). Thus forcing him to make a deal with Wonder Woman. I will also Add that It would be stupid for Wonder Woman to attack Apollo even if she could kill him with her powers because the prophecy still stands and strife can easily manipulate the next in line for the thown into going after Zola like she did to Apollo.
And why didn't she do that against Hera? Show Hera how powerful she is and what she'll do to her if she keeps trying to kill Zola and force to stop.
3. Did you read my post or even read the Wonder Woman comics? As I have said several times before, Hera was actively trying to kill Zola and tries to kill her several times throughout the series, Artemis had not tried to kill Zola once. Who was more of a danger and should be dealt with more harshly? Hera showed herself to be a much greater threat from the very beginning by trying to murder Zola in the very first issue of this series. It's very simple logic. Just think about this for one second. Who is more dangerous, the person who is actively trying to commit murder and has tried to commit murder (and who actually did kill/curse the Amazons) in the past or the person who might be thinking of trying to commit murder in the future?
Again. It would be stupid for Wonder Woman to KILL Hera over Zola's baby... That would be an extremely risky thing to do.... Not only would it cause more chaos in Olympus it could easily turn Strife (neutral) and a few other gods against Wonder Woman like Hephastus Hera's son and even ZEUS since Wonder Woman has no idea where Zeus is....For all she knows he could just be hiding and Watching. Hera is Zeus WIFE! Add to that Wonder Woman probably sees why Hera is upset.. and can in small part sympathize with Hera. It would be REALLY out of character for wonder woman to just UP and kill Hera since Hera has a legit gripe against Zola's baby.... even if she is overreacting.
Except Wonder Woman was already willing to snap Artemis's neck and she swore that she would kill Apollo if he went after the baby.
Also, as I said before, she could have just defeated Hera and forced her to stop hunting Zola. Instead, all she did was keep pissing Hera off and making her more desperate.
The point here is simple, why didn't Wonder Woman do what she did against Artemis and Apollo against Hera? How does it make any sense for Wonder Woman to unleash her powers against someone who might be thinking of killing Zola but not against someone who actually did try to kill Zola and will keep trying to kill Zola?
But there was no reason for her to fight Artemis at all. Apollo got what he wanted and he didn't care about Zola or the child. Heck, Artemis even let Hermes go so that he could escape with Zola.
No your wrong here. Yes Wonder Woman could simply have left and not fought Artemis. However, Strife persuaded Apollo to kill Zola's baby for fear that Zola's Baby will one day rise up and kill him (Apollo). It was Clear Apollo intended to go after the baby. Wonder Woman stayed to deal with that issue right then and there. I don't know how you missed that.
I didn't miss that and that's not my point. My point is why didn't Wonder Woman do that against Hera.
It was obvious that Hera was planning to kill Zola since she actually sent monsters to kill her. It was also obvious that Hera was more ruthless since the centaurs she sent to kill Zola had no problem shooting Hermes and severely wounding him. So I'll ask this again, why was Wonder Woman willing to unleash her powers against someone who hadn't even made a move against Zola yet but not against someone who had been trying to kill Zola from the very beginning?
Also, you may not have noticed this but Wonder Woman left Zola and Hermes defenseless. If Apollo and Artemis really wanted to kill Zola, they could have just teleported after them and left Wonder Woman stranded on Olympus. Not to mention the fact that Apollo didn't even have to let Hermes escape with Zola in the first place. Apollo could have just taken away Hermes's powers like he did with Hera then Apollo could have just gone after Zola while Wonder Woman was distracted with Artemis.
And why would Wonder Woman even trust Apollo? He just banished Hera after she gave him the throne of Olympus because she was a threat to him. What makes her think that Apollo would be willing to keep up his end of the bargain when he was clearly willing to betray his family to keep the throne?
By that logic, there's no such thing as a plot hole because any plot hole, especially in comics, can just be rationalized or retconned later.
Not in the middle of a story nope no plot holes. And I said DC uses crisis events to eliminate them. I did not say they don’t exist.
Except it was not obvious that Artemis planned to go after Zola's baby since she was the one who let Hermes escape with Zola. Plus Wonder Woman can't teleport on her own but the gods can. So if Apollo and Artemis wanted to kill Zola, they could have just teleported after her and left Wonder Woman stranded on Olympus.
No. Artemis was not planning to go after the baby. and lets Hermes and Zola Leave… after that strife subverts Apollo and he changes his mind….Easy…
Wonder Woman can't teleport on her own but the gods can. So if Apollo and Artemis wanted to kill Zola, they could have just teleported after her and left Wonder Woman stranded on Olympus.
That would be dumb of Apollo and Artemis because once they kill Zola’s kid and return to Olympus, they would certainly be facing an enraged wonder woman. That would not be very smart.
Also, as I mentioned before, that was another plot hole since Apollo had already learned of the prophecy in the first issue.
Thats hardly a plot whole I am not sure Apollo even knew the kid was Zeus until that issue….I have to check back. even so its not a plot hole
Also, I never said that Wonder Woman has to kill Hera. She could have just defeated her and made her promise to not go after Zola and restore the Amazons. Killing Hera would be a last resort, if she refuses to stop hunting Zola.
How can Wonder Woman possibly trust Hera to keep that promise? These Gods back stab each other all the time. It seems much easier to defend Zola if the best Hera can do is send centaurs to kill Zola
And how does it make sense to protect Zola's baby indefinitely? Because any time when Wonder Woman leaves Zola and the baby to fight other villains, Hera could send in monsters to kill them. So Wonder Woman would just leave the Justice League and stop fighting other villains for 16 to 20 years so that she could look after Zola and her baby?
Maybe Maybe not but clearly Wonder Woman was ready to take that risk. That’s not a plot whole
And why didn't she do that against Hera? Show Hera how powerful she is and what she'll do to her if she keeps trying to kill Zola and force to stop.
First we don’t know the level of Diana’s power. Second…. Hera can simply return to Olympus out of Wonder Woman’s reach and keep sending centaurs or whatever to kill zola. How is Wonder Woman going to back up her claim? And also Hera has the ability to turn all the Amazons into snakes… Why take the chance to fight her like that and risk the same fate?
Also, as I said before, she could have just defeated Hera and forced her to stop hunting Zola. Instead, all she did was keep pissing Hera off and making her more desperate.
And yet is all worked out. I don’t see any problem here
I didn't miss that and that's not my point. My point is why didn't Wonder Woman do that against Hera.
Because Hera can turn her into a snake or a statue
Also, you may not have noticed this but Wonder Woman left Zola and Hermes defenseless. If Apollo and Artemis really wanted to kill Zola, they could have just teleported after them and left Wonder Woman stranded on Olympus. Not to mention the fact that Apollo didn't even have to let Hermes escape with Zola in the first place. Apollo could have just taken away Hermes's powers like he did with Hera then Apollo could have just gone after Zola while Wonder Woman was distracted with Artemis.
Hermes left he did not escape. If Apollo and Artemis leave Wonder Woman in Olympus they got to deal with her when they get back. That would be dumb.
And why would Wonder Woman even trust Apollo? He just banished Hera after she gave him the throne of Olympus because she was a threat to him. What makes her think that Apollo would be willing to keep up his end of the bargain when he was clearly willing to betray his family to keep the throne?
That’s called suspense and makes the story exciting
By that logic, there's no such thing as a plot hole because any plot hole, especially in comics, can just be rationalized or retconned later.
Not in the middle of a story nope no plot holes. And I said DC uses crisis events to eliminate them. I did not say they don’t exist.
Except there are plot holes in terms of character behaviors and the logic of the plot.
For example, you say that the reason why Wonder Woman didn't go after Hera was because Hera was too powerful and could turn her into a statue or a snake. But if that was true then what was stopping Hera from just turning Wonder Woman into a statue anyway so that she could kill Zola? Why was Wonder Woman willing to go after Apollo even though Apollo showed that he was even more powerful than Hera by taking away Hera's powers? These are inconsistencies in the way characters behave and the logic of the plot.
Except it was not obvious that Artemis planned to go after Zola's baby since she was the one who let Hermes escape with Zola. Plus Wonder Woman can't teleport on her own but the gods can. So if Apollo and Artemis wanted to kill Zola, they could have just teleported after her and left Wonder Woman stranded on Olympus.
No. Artemis was not planning to go after the baby. and lets Hermes and Zola Leave… after that strife subverts Apollo and he changes his mind….Easy…
So then you agree, the fight was pointless.
Wonder Woman can't teleport on her own but the gods can. So if Apollo and Artemis wanted to kill Zola, they could have just teleported after her and left Wonder Woman stranded on Olympus.
That would be dumb of Apollo and Artemis because once they kill Zola’s kid and return to Olympus, they would certainly be facing an enraged wonder woman. That would not be very smart.
And Apollo could just teleport Wonder Woman away or take away her power. Not to mention the fact that they don't even need to return to Olympus immediately. Wonder Woman is trapped there. Apollo and Artemis could come up with a plan to deal with her like gathering an army of monsters to face her. And how would Wonder Woman even know that Zola was dead? She's not psychic.
Also, as I mentioned before, that was another plot hole since Apollo had already learned of the prophecy in the first issue.
Thats hardly a plot whole I am not sure Apollo even knew the kid was Zeus until that issue….I have to check back. even so its not a plot hole
Really? Hera offered Apollo the throne of Zeus in exchange for Zola and you honestly think Apollo couldn't put two and two together? You know what? Maybe it's not a plot hole, maybe Apollo is really that dumb and it's just bad writing.
Also, I never said that Wonder Woman has to kill Hera. She could have just defeated her and made her promise to not go after Zola and restore the Amazons. Killing Hera would be a last resort, if she refuses to stop hunting Zola.
How can Wonder Woman possibly trust Hera to keep that promise? These Gods back stab each other all the time. It seems much easier to defend Zola if the best Hera can do is send centaurs to kill Zola
How can Wonder Woman possibly trust Apollo, especially after seeing him betray Hera?
And how does it make sense to protect Zola's baby indefinitely? Because any time when Wonder Woman leaves Zola and the baby to fight other villains, Hera could send in monsters to kill them. So Wonder Woman would just leave the Justice League and stop fighting other villains for 16 to 20 years so that she could look after Zola and her baby?
Maybe Maybe not but clearly Wonder Woman was ready to take that risk. That’s not a plot whole
Fine, that's not a plot hole, it's just bad writing.
And why didn't she do that against Hera? Show Hera how powerful she is and what she'll do to her if she keeps trying to kill Zola and force to stop.
First we don’t know the level of Diana’s power. Second…. Hera can simply return to Olympus out of Wonder Woman’s reach and keep sending centaurs or whatever to kill zola. How is Wonder Woman going to back up her claim? And also Hera has the ability to turn all the Amazons into snakes… Why take the chance to fight her like that and risk the same fate?
And if Hera was that much more powerful than Wonder Woman then why didn't she just turn her into a snake or teleport her away and kill Zola? Why did Hera need Apollo and Artemis to help her? Not to mention the fact that Apollo was able to take away Hera's power so he was even more powerful than Hera so why was he afraid of Wonder Woman at all?
Also, as I said before, she could have just defeated Hera and forced her to stop hunting Zola. Instead, all she did was keep pissing Hera off and making her more desperate.
And yet is all worked out. I don’t see any problem here
Except it didn't all work since Hera kept pursuing Zola and putting her life in danger. If Wonder Woman had defeated Hera from the beginning then she wouldn't have had to trick Poseidon and Hades, and Apollo and Artemis wouldn't have even gotten involved.
I didn't miss that and that's not my point. My point is why didn't Wonder Woman do that against Hera.
Because Hera can turn her into a snake or a statue
Again, if Hera was that powerful then she could have turned Wonder Woman into a statue and killed Zola. And Apollo had became even more powerful than Hera. He could teleport Wonder Woman away or take away her powers.
Also, you may not have noticed this but Wonder Woman left Zola and Hermes defenseless. If Apollo and Artemis really wanted to kill Zola, they could have just teleported after them and left Wonder Woman stranded on Olympus. Not to mention the fact that Apollo didn't even have to let Hermes escape with Zola in the first place. Apollo could have just taken away Hermes's powers like he did with Hera then Apollo could have just gone after Zola while Wonder Woman was distracted with Artemis.
Hermes left he did not escape. If Apollo and Artemis leave Wonder Woman in Olympus they got to deal with her when they get back. That would be dumb.
Escape: to slip away from pursuit or peril; avoid capture, punishment, or any threatened evil.
That pretty much defines what happened with Hermes and Zola since they escaped from Artemis and Apollo.
And what's the difference between dealing with Wonder Woman now and dealing with her later? Other than the fact that they would actually have more time to come up with a plan and gather an army of monsters to help them if they dealt with her later.
And why would Wonder Woman even trust Apollo? He just banished Hera after she gave him the throne of Olympus because she was a threat to him. What makes her think that Apollo would be willing to keep up his end of the bargain when he was clearly willing to betray his family to keep the throne?
That’s called suspense and makes the story exciting
You know you're contradicting yourself.
How can Wonder Woman possibly trust Hera to keep that promise? These Gods back stab each other all the time. It seems much easier to defend Zola if the best Hera can do is send centaurs to kill Zola
If she can't trust Hera, why should she trust Apollo, especially after seeing him betray Hera? Why should I suspend my disbelief here but not there?
The way I see it, you grew tired of having your argument continuously thrown in the proverbial shredder so you decided to PM me about it. And PMing me about how you no longer want to debate the issue, only to take on someone who might not formulate an argument as clearly is a pretty big b!tch move. Bad form. Very bad form.
@KingofMadCows: I think you need to stop reading Wonder Woman....I started to go through and answer your question but I realise that they are pretty elementary. It seems you are unable to grasp the basic plot of the story. I admit Wonder Woman is not a comicbook made for really young children. Its not really your fault that you can't follow the plot. If you want you can go and read the reviews on this site about each issue. Maybe they can give you some more insight about whats going on.
Wonder Woman used her powers against someone who hadn't done anything yet but did not use her power against someone who not only tried to murder Zola but will clearly try to kill Zola again. That is a plot hole because it is an inconsistency in how the character behaves without mitigating circumstances. That would be like a police officer shooting someone who might be planning a murder but then only using a taser against someone who not only tried to murder someone but was actually in the process of trying to murder someone.
This is the one very simple point that you haven't addressed.
@WDW: And you have continually failed to answer any of these questions. I understand the basic plot of the story perfectly. Your problem seems to be that you fail to grasp bad writing and storytelling.
Wonder Woman used her powers against someone who hadn't done anything yet but did not use her power against someone who not only tried to murder Zola but will clearly try to kill Zola again. That is a plot hole because it is an inconsistency in how the character behaves without mitigating circumstances. That would be like a police officer shooting someone who might be planning a murder but then only using a taser against someone who not only tried to murder someone but was actually in the process of trying to murder someone.
This is the one very simple point that you haven't addressed.
@WDW: And you have continually failed to answer any of these questions. I understand the basic plot of the story perfectly. Your problem seems to be that you fail to grasp bad writing and storytelling.
There is no inconsistency. Wonder Woman chose to use her powers as a last resort. Need I remind you that even though she was only directly fighting one god, she was facing two. And one of them was the most powerful of the gods. Not only that but near as we can even tell, she was at best evenly matched to Artemis and at worst there was no way to determine who was superior due to a lack of showings. Simply put, she did not need to take the bracelets off beforehand or she was tied up in other business that prevented her from doing it, such as when she first fought Artemis. It is not inconsistent at all. It is however, building a character that responds to certain situations in certain ways.
I already told you I had no interest in getting into a debate about speculation. It is stupid and a waste of time since answers have a tendency to come to light a few issues after with this particular writer. But since you insist, perhaps it is because she just got tired of holding back. Perhaps she knew that if she wrecked Artemis, she could bargain for her life. Perhaps Wonder Woman is a moron and just forgot how uber powerful she is. Perhaps the moon was going to crash into the Earth had she not acted in the manner she did. Speculation on the issue is worthless. The only one that sees it as inconsistent is you and that is a mindset that IS based in ignorance. Because you just do not know one way or another what is inconsistent yet. We are only 12 issues into the series.
I'm curious what the downside is of that power. I mean, there has to be one, else why wear the bracelets?
In #10 she said that she loved everybody, so I wouldn't be surprised if the bracelets are there to prevent her from killing people on the first attack. Similar to how Superman often used to let opponents get the first blow in order to gauge their power levels.
Yeah, they really need to explain why Wonder Woman was willing to use it against Artemis but not against Hera. Heck, Artemis even let Hermes go so that he could escape with Zola while Hera constantly sent monsters to try to kill Zola, not to mention how Hera also cursed (killed?) the Amazons.
It seemed to me that WW was just used to having them restrain her. She probably has only taken them off a few times in her whole life in this new universe. And there is something to be said about desperation. This was her last chance to win. The moment she was done kicking ass, she put them back on and as she herself has said, they are a defense for her opponents, not her.
This, plus if I'm not mistaken, #11 was the first time she really got her ass kicked, so taking the bracelets off in #12 could have just been a response to that.
There is no inconsistency. Wonder Woman chose to use her powers as a last resort. Need I remind you that even though she was only directly fighting one god, she was facing two. And one of them was the most powerful of the gods. Not only that but near as we can even tell, she was at best evenly matched to Artemis and at worst there was no way to determine who was superior due to a lack of showings. Simply put, she did not need to take the bracelets off beforehand or she was tied up in other business that prevented her from doing it, such as when she first fought Artemis. It is not inconsistent at all. It is however, building a character that responds to certain situations in certain ways.
I already told you I had no interest in getting into a debate about speculation. It is stupid and a waste of time since answers have a tendency to come to light a few issues after with this particular writer. But since you insist, perhaps it is because she just got tired of holding back. Perhaps she knew that if she wrecked Artemis, she could bargain for her life. Perhaps Wonder Woman is a moron and just forgot how uber powerful she is. Perhaps the moon was going to crash into the Earth had she not acted in the manner she did. Speculation on the issue is worthless. The only one that sees it as inconsistent is you and that is a mindset that IS based in ignorance. Because you just do not know one way or another what is inconsistent yet. We are only 12 issues into the series.
OK, I can see your point.
I suppose that I think Wonder Woman was being sold as a different kind of story than it really is and I was basing my judgments on my (perhaps misguided) expectations. So I had (have?) a different interpretation of the story than you. Maybe I was misled by some of the interviews and advertisements concerning the series.
@WDW: And you have continually failed to answer any of these questions. I understand the basic plot of the story perfectly. Your problem seems to be that you fail to grasp bad writing and storytelling.
Why am I obligated to answer your question? What right do you have? just read the book and answer your own questions. Soon your going to ask my why was Hera Naked. It will go on and on
Your problem seems to be that you fail to grasp bad writing and storytelling.
Yup I guess I have... and so have all comicbook review sites including this site that seems to like the book. Why is Wonder Woman rated as one of the best of the new 52 on virtually all comic review sites? why is the Comic selling more than it has in a decade? I guess because none of us can grasp the bad storytelling accept for you...
Wow I never thought of it that way...you are a real genius.... a regular Einstein.
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