Wonder Woman New 52 Sales Figures

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#51 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@cloudzackvincent said:

@jphulk26 :

These are some of her sales figures preceding the reboot

she was selling in high 20k and low 30k before the reboot and after the reboot she is at least selling at low to mid 40k.... so although not a grand success her new 52 reboot is far from a failure.

yup. this.

in fact, wonder woman is one of those books that wasn't involved in any crossover or event for the past year and a half.

so getting the numbers she is getting is fantastic.

her sales would increase the moment there is a crossover.

#52 Posted by jointron33 (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

Ppl talking about sexism and yammering about feats and mistreatment should all die and burn in hell.

#53 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@herrweis: she isn't selling more than pre 52 anymore,she is a flolp again.

#54 Edited by COBRAMORPH (1637 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700 said:

@OutlawRenegade said:

@moywar700 said:

She's sells fairly well considering her digital sales and tradeback sales .

She doesn't have to sell as well as Green Lanturn to be as important to DC Universe. It is how she is written that makes her important.Not how much she sells.

I like Wonder Woman a lot, but don't forget that DC is a business.

Her book is nowhere in close of being in danger of cancellation.

I said Wonder Woman sells fairly well.

She had an animated film which outsold GL,Superman,Batman,and the Justice League.

She's also getting a graphic novel.If DC didn't think she can earn them money, then they wouldn't even have have it in works.

I'm sure a WW animated film is going to do as well as a Flash one would, because lets face it, people arent going to throw away money on the same Bat/super -story over & over again. No one really knows much about their backstories. Plus she has not had a lot of solo media. So yeah, she should outsell GL, Superman, Batman, & the JL. & then there is the fact that individual stories can be hit or miss.

How does her comic numbers compare to GL, Flash, Aquaman, Arrow, Hawkman etc. as I've said her before, IMO the Trinity does not exist, as IMO WW is not equal to Batman or Superman, she is below them, but she is above GL, Flash, Hawkman & Aquaman. She is more prominent solely because she is female, however, if she were DC's Thor-Man, or Hercules the Wonderman, DC would be lucky to have a property equal to Green Arrow or Hawkman.

#55 Posted by divingfalcon713 (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Just my opinion...but she beat an armed goddess into submission with her bare hands. That's a pretty great showing of fighting skill to me.

#56 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@divingfalcon713: and then they make her look weak in batwoman,writers aren't consistent,i don't like when they don't respect the power level of the characters when they put different characters in one comic.

but i was talking about sales,they changed her character again,but her character isn't the problem,and it's obious because now her sales are a flop.

#57 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@COBRAMORPH: she already had an animated movie,and it ousold green lantern 2 movies combined,her movie is the 4 best selling animated movie of DC.

now she needs an animated series to improve sales in her comic,it's better if they adapt a comic run,because it'd be the first time we could see a comic character being as powerful as in the comics,so to improve her comic sales,they should choose a good wonder woman run and adapt it into an animated series,so the series will be as mature and deep as the comic that is based on,for example adapt perez and ruka run into an animated series,maybe even arazzello run,to also imprve the sales of her current comic run.

what runs would you like to see adapted into an animated series?.

#58 Posted by divingfalcon713 (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@jobbernos: no,her current sales are a flop,her comic has turned into a boring arc without action,her superhero side is gone,she isn't a good fighter almost never show skills and seems a B-list character in her own comic,and looks like a cheap version of xena,that's why she'll keep being trash for the general audience in the years to come,don't worry,you'll get use to that just like i did,there isn't much hope for her,she's been lost in the limbo for too long.

You did talk about sales, but you also said she's not a good fighter. I do agree with you that there should be a more even representation of her across the board though. She may have been downplayed in Batwoman simply because Kate is supposed to be the star of that title, who knows.

#59 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@divingfalcon713: i think she isn't a good fighter compared to old wonder woman,this new version hasn't shown much of her fighting skills.

and i hate crossover because of that stupid rule"the hero of the title has to shine",then don't put wonder woman with batwoman,nobody would really believe that if wonder woman can't beat a certain foe,batwoman will be able to do it,nobody is buying that,it's not that hard to avoid stupid inconsistencies,find a way to make the main hero shine,without making the other character look bad,if you're a good writer,you should be able to do that.

#60 Posted by divingfalcon713 (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I'm gonna have to disagree with you about her fighting ability. Like I said, her besting Artemis was a big deal to me, especially because she didn't break a sweat doing it. Preboot WW had more feats that can immediately come to mind because of how long that version of the character was around. But I do hope that over time Azz will show her skills in a comparative setting.

I get you on the crossover thing though. It's annoying when a character comes off two different ways because writers don't collaborate/want to make their title star look good. Trust me, I get it. I was just saying that's probably why WW didn't fly into Batwoman's book and kick the crap out of all the bad guys by herself.

#61 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@divingfalcon713: she owned artemis because she was way more powerful,but she didn't show much fighting skills,but i guess that as the time goes by we'll see more skills.

i can tolerate crossovers,but what bothers me a lot is that the trolls search for stupid PIS moments in different crossovers to make a character look weak,well they search for PIS in the main title of the character too,trolls are so annoying.

#62 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: @divingfalcon713: where she in a crossover with Batwoman, want that comic. i love both titles.

#63 Edited by Press Oblivion (1656 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: Did someone take over your account, that doesn't sound like you at all . . "I love both titles" . . . ?

On Sale
Feb 20 2013
On Sale
Jan 23 2013
On Sale
Dec 19 2012
On Sale
Nov 21 2012
On Sale
Oct 17 2012
On Sale
Aug 15 2012

It's not really a crossover, Batwoman does not appear in Wonder Woman at all. Wonder Woman appears in Batwoman issues 12-15, though issue 15 is really a filler issue focusing on Maggie Sawyer with the heroines appearing on the first and the last pages of the story. Wonder Woman will be in issues 16 & 17 as well.

#64 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Press Oblivion: Your right, I meant characters. Batwoman is really cool and WW is pre-new 52 and JMS one of my fave favorite characters. Just been reading issue 1 of all the new 52. There has been some good stuff, much better than WW. I know I´m quite late, but hey better late than never.

#65 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: @jphulk26: @Press Oblivion:

Here´s something interesting to have a look at. Unfortunately its monthly rather than annually, but a break down of WW sales since the late 80s. Very illuminating. It does show some good figures for the runs I often mention.

NEW as of Nov 30, 2010: Thanks to new numbers being posted at TheComicChron, I've been able to update some of the numbers below with Diamond (blue); Diamond numbers mean one point equals about 700-800 copies sold:

Mar 2011 49 Wonder Woman #609 $2.99 31,421 (with variant cover)

Mar 2011 45 Wonder Woman #608 $2.99 32,540 (with variant cover)

Feb 2011 40 Wonder Woman #607 $2.99 33,053 (with variant cover)

Jan 2011 32 Wonder Woman #606 $2.99 33,601 (with variant cover)

Dec 2010 38 Wonder Woman #605 $2.99 35,495 (with variant cover)

Nov 2010 Nada

Oct 2010 43 Wonder Woman #604 $2.99 37,405 (with variant cover)

Sep 2010 41 Wonder Woman #603 $2.99 38,852 (with variant cover)

Aug 2010 41 Wonder Woman #602 $2.99 38,012 (with variant cover)

Jul 2010 38 Wonder Woman #601 $3.99 39,672 (with variant cover)

Jun 2010 163 Wonder Woman #600 $4.99 10,175 (REORDERS or 2nd print, total numbers now 63,696) (with three variant covers)

Jun 2010 24 Wonder Woman #600 $4.99 53,521 (with three variant covers)

May 2010 82 Wonder Woman #44 $2.99 25,443

Apr 2010 78 Wonder Woman #43 $2.99 25,369

Mar 2010 85 Wonder Woman #42 $2.99 25,240

Feb 2010 71 Wonder Woman #41 $2.99 25,354

Jan 2010 78 Wonder Woman #40 $2.99 25,156

Dec 2009 80 Wonder Woman #39 $2.99 26,152

Nov 2009 74 Wonder Woman #38 $2.99 26,265

Oct 2009 77 Wonder Woman #37 $2.99 26,972

Sep 2009 87 Wonder Woman #36 $2.99 28,806

Aug 2009 74 Wonder Woman #35 $2.99 29,657

Jul 2009 66 Wonder Woman #34 $2.99 30,131

Jun 2009 61 Wonder Woman #33 $2.99 32,755 (with variant cover)

May 2009 50 Wonder Woman #32 $2.99 33,065 (with variant cover)

Apr 2009 78 Wonder Woman #31 $2.99 31,857 (with variant cover)

Mar 2009 51 Wonder Woman #30 $2.99 33,365 (with variant cover)

Feb 2009 49 Wonder Woman #29 $2.99 33,237 (with variant cover)

Jan 2009 52 Wonder Woman #28 (FOE) $2.99 32,622 (with variant cover)

++++++++++

Dec 2008 79 Wonder Woman #27 $2.99 32,322

Nov 2008 58 Wonder Woman #26 $2.99 33,277 (with variant cover)

Oct 2008 76 Wonder Woman #25 $2.99 33,583

Sep 2008 64 Wonder Woman #24 $2.99 34,583

Aug 2008 65 Wonder Woman #23 $2.99 35,562

Jul 2008 60 Wonder Woman #22 $2.99 36,514

Jun 2008 57 Wonder Woman #21 $2.99 37,086

May 2008 55 Wonder Woman #20 $2.99 38,116

Apr 2008 52 Wonder Woman #19 $2.99 39,489

Mar 2008 44 Wonder Woman #18 $2.99 40,771

Feb 2008 42 Wonder Woman #17 $2.99 41,948

Jan 2008 48 Wonder Woman #16 $2.99 42,897

++++++++++

Dec 2007 53 Wonder Woman #15 $2.99 44,628

Nov 2007 35 Wonder Woman #14 $2.99 53,090 (with variant cover)

Oct 2007 44 Wonder Woman #13 $2.99 48,385

Sep 2007 Nada

Aug 2007 48 Wonder Woman #12 (AA) $2.99 50,880

Jul 2007 45 Wonder Woman #11 (AA) $2.99 52,983

Jun 2007 43 Wonder Woman #10 (AA) $2.99 54,472

May 2007 41 Wonder Woman #9 $2.99 58,561

Apr 2007 35 Wonder Woman #7 $2.99 60,168

Apr 2007 38 Wonder Woman #8 $2.99 58,772

Mar 2007 28 Wonder Woman #5 (Res) $2.99 64,414

Mar 2007 32 Wonder Woman #6 $2.99 62,458

Feb 2007 21 Wonder Woman #4 (Res) $2.99 69,860

Jan 2007 Nada

++++++++++

Dec 2006 Nada

Nov 2006 24 Wonder Woman #3 $2.99 76,998

Oct 2006 Nada

Sep 2006 224 Wonder Woman #2 (Reorder) $2.99 2,658

Sep 2006 244 Wonder Woman #1 (Reorder) $2.99 2,010 (with variant cover)

Aug 2006 19 Wonder Woman #2 $2.99 84,618

Aug 2006 293 Wonder Woman #1 (Reorder) $2.99 2,044 (with variant cover)

Jul 2006 251 Wonder Woman #1 (Reorder) $2.99 3,225 (with variant cover)

Jun 2006 4 Wonder Woman #1 $2.99 132,580 (with variant cover)

May 2006 Nada

Apr 2006 Nada

Mar 2006 Nada

Feb 2006 34 Wonder Woman #226 $2.50 45,682

Jan 2006 38 Wonder Woman #225 $2.50 42,661

++++++++++

Dec 2005 37 Wonder Woman #224 $2.50 47,224

Nov 2005 31 Wonder Woman #223 $2.50 49,332

Nov 2005 282 Wonder Woman #222 (Reorder) $2.50 2,036

Oct 2005 31 Wonder Woman #221 $2.50 52,894

Oct 2005 35 Wonder Woman #222 $2.50 47,065

Oct 2005 156 Wonder Woman #220 2nd Ptg $2.50 11,371

Sep 2005 189 Wonder Woman #219 2nd Ptg $2.50 6,137

Sep 2005 272 Wonder Woman #220 (Reorder) $2.50 1,471

Aug 2005 61 Wonder Woman #220 $2.50 38,370

Aug 2005 74 Wonder Woman #219 (Reorder?) $2.50 32,567

Jul 2005 36 Wonder Woman #219 $2.50 53,460

Jul 2005 62 Wonder Woman #218 $2.50 34,366

Jul 2005 272 Wonder Woman #217 (Reorder) $2.25 1,656

Jun 2005 77 Wonder Woman #217 $2.25 30,022

May 2005 65 Wonder Woman #216 $2.25 31,601

May 2005 268 Wonder Woman #215 $2.25 1,459

Apr 2005 72 Wonder Woman #215 $2.25 28,977

Mar 2005 69 Wonder Woman #214 $2.25 30,473

Feb 2005 80 Wonder Woman #213 $2.25 24,728

Jan 2005 73 Wonder Woman #212 $2.25 25,610

++++++++++

December 2004 86 Wonder Woman #211 $2.25 24,828

November 2004 80 Wonder Woman #210 $2.25 25,699

October 2004 86 Wonder Woman #209 $2.25 25,964

September 2004 97 Wonder Woman #208 $2.25 26,628

August 2004 85 Wonder Woman #207 $2.25 27,187

July 2004 73 Wonder Woman #206 $2.25 28,038

June 2004 79 Wonder Woman #205 $2.25 29,233

May 2004 63 Wonder Woman #204 $2.25 30,377

April 2004 68 Wonder Woman #203 $2.25 30,418

March 2004 78 Wonder Woman #202 $2.25 28,646

February 2004 63 Wonder Woman #201 $2.25 29,210

February 2004 176 Wonder Woman #200 (Reorder) $3.95 5,793

January 2004 33 Wonder Woman #200 (Note Price) $3.95 38,007

++++++++++

December 2003 67 Wonder Woman #199 $2.25 29,224

November 2003 69 Wonder Woman #198 $2.25 28,977

November 2003 298 Wonder Woman #197 (reorder) $2.25 910

October 2003 82 Wonder Woman #197 $2.25 28,944

September 2003 72 Wonder Woman #196 $2.25 27,539

September 2003 282 Wonder Woman #195 (reorder) $2.25 1,964

August 2003 59 Wonder Woman #195 $2.25 29,558

July 2003 89 Wonder Woman #194 $2.25 25,347

June 2003 80 Wonder Woman #193 $2.25 25,598

May 2003 81 Wonder Woman #192 $2.25 25,994

April 2003 83 Wonder Woman #191 $2.25 25,833

April 2003 276 Wonder Woman #190 (Reorder) $2.25 2,236

March 2003 80 Wonder Woman #190 $2.25 25,615

February 2003 63 Wonder Woman #189 $2.25 26,320

January 2003 77 Wonder Woman #188 (Res) $2.25 23,096

January 2003 78 Wonder Woman #187 (Res) $2.25 23,072

++++++++++

December 2002 Nada

November 2002 87 Wonder Woman #187 $2.25 24,013

October 2002 84 Wonder Woman #186 $2.25 23,358

September 2002 86 Wonder Woman #185 $2.25 24,235

August 2002 90 Wonder Woman #184 $2.25 24,842

July 2002 84 Wonder Woman #183 $2.25 24,828

June 2002 76 Wonder Woman #182 $2.25 25,225

May 2002 76 Wonder Woman #181 $2.25 26,048

April 2002 72 Wonder Woman #180 $2.25 26,903

March 2002 58 Wonder Woman #179 (Res) $2.25 27,506

February 2002 57 Wonder Woman #179 $2.25 27,916

January 2002 60 Wonder Woman #178 $2.25 28,967

++++++++++

December 2001 61 Wonder Woman #177 $2.25 29,813

November 2001 70 Wonder Woman #176 $2.25 30,865

October 2001 63 Wonder Woman #175 (Note Price) $3.50 33,359

September 2001 64 Wonder Woman #174 $2.25 29,917

August 2001 56 Wonder Woman #173 $2.25 32,337

July 2001 61 Wonder Woman #172 $2.25 32,535

June 2001 53 Wonder Woman #171 $2.25 31,074

May 2001 50 Wonder Woman #170 $2.25 28,032

April 2001 59 Wonder Woman #169 $2.25 26,588

March 2001 68 Wonder Woman #168 $2.25 25,309

February 2001 68 Wonder Woman #167 $2.25 26,700

January 2001 86 Wonder Woman ##166 $2.25 24,741

++++++++++

December 2000 92 Wonder Woman 165 $2.25 25,100

November 2000 91 Wonder Woman 164 $2.25 25,700

October 2000 97 Wonder Woman 163 $2.25 21,300

September 2000 105 Wonder Woman 162 $2.25 21,400

August 2000 106 Wonder Woman 161 $2.25 21,300

July 2000 101 Wonder Woman 160 $2.25 22,400

June 2000 116 Wonder Woman 159 $2.25 22,400

May 2000 116 Wonder Woman 158 $1.99 22,200

April 2000 97 Wonder Woman 157 $1.99 22,600

March 2000 102 Wonder Woman 156 $1.99 22,900

February 2000 93 Wonder Woman 155 $1.99 22,100

January 2000 87 Wonder Woman #154 $1.99 23,593

++++++++++

December 1999 99 Wonder Woman #153 $1.99 25,196

November 1999 112 Wonder Woman #152 $1.99 23,872

October 1999 102 Wonder Woman #151 $1.99 24,991

September 1999 109 Wonder Woman #150 $2.95 27,084

August 1999 117 Wonder Woman #149 $1.99 24,417

July 1999 107 Wonder Woman #148 $1.99 24,788

June 1999 98 Wonder Woman #147 $1.99 25,620

May 1999 103 Wonder Woman #146 $1.99 26,568

April 1999 89 Wonder Woman #145 $1.99 27,806

March 1999 91 Wonder Woman #144 $1.99 28,168

February 1999 83 Wonder Woman #143 $1.99 27,706

January 1999 82 Wonder Woman #142 $1.99 28,487

++++++++++

December 1998 92 Wonder Woman #141 $1.99 30,432

November 1998 74 Wonder Woman #140 $1.99 31,528

October 1998 82 Wonder Woman #139 $1.99 32,765

September 1998 70 Wonder Woman #1000000 $1.99 40,471

August 1998 72 Wonder Woman #138 $1.99 33,500

July 1998 74 Wonder Woman #137 $1.95 34,600

June 1998 66 Wonder Woman #136 $1.95 36,700

May 1998 61 Wonder Woman #135 $1.95 37,200

April 1998 52 Wonder Woman #134 $1.95 39,100

March 1998 60 Wonder Woman #133 $1.95 37,100

February 1998 53 Wonder Woman #132 $1.95 37,000

January 1998 54 Wonder Woman #131 $1.95 38,109

++++++++++

December 1997 71 Wonder Woman #130 $1.95 38,705

November 1997 64 Wonder Woman #129 $1.95 38,552

October 1997 76 Wonder Woman #128 $1.95 38,491

September 1997 66 Wonder Woman #127 $1.95 37,133

August 1997 66 Wonder Woman #126 $1.95 39,649

July 1997 70 Wonder Woman #125 $1.95 38,237

June 1997 70 Wonder Woman #124 $1.95 36,706

May 1997 69 Wonder Woman #123 $1.95 37,081

April 1997 80 Wonder Woman #122 $1.95 37,252

March 1997 71 Wonder Woman #121 $1.95 36,926

February 1997 63 Wonder Woman #120 $2.95 38,354

January 1997 74 Wonder Woman #119 $2.95 38,514

++++++++++

December 1996 86 Wonder Woman #118 $1.95 40,338

November 1996 84 Wonder Woman #117 $1.95 42,361

October 1996 68 Wonder Woman #116 $1.95 44,851

September 1996 71 Wonder Woman #115 $1.95 45,247

October 1995 Wonder Woman #102 $1.95 (CCo) 20,650

October 1995 Wonder Woman #102 $1.95 (Diamond rank 35) 71.96

September 1995 Wonder Woman #101 $1.95 (CCo) 29,800 Byrne

September 1995 Wonder Woman #101 $1.95 (Diamond rank 20) 89.36

August 1995 Wonder Woman Annual #04 $3.50 (Diamond rank 94) 39.92

July 1995 Wonder Woman #100 $2.95 (CCo) 28,825

July 1995 Wonder Woman #100 Collectors Ed $3.95 (Diamond rank 40) 79.23

July 1995 Wonder Woman #100 Newsstand Ed $2.95 (Diamond rank 230) 16.33

July 1995 Wonder Woman #099 $1.75 (CCo) 20,200

July 1995 Wonder Woman #098 $1.50 (Diamond rank 65) 57.50

June 1995 Wonder Woman #098 $1.75 (CCo) 16,100

June 1995 Wonder Woman #098 $1.50 (Diamond rank 72) 40.0

May 1995 Wonder Woman #097 $1.50 (CCo) 16,200

May 1995 Wonder Woman #097 $1.50 (Diamond rank 75) 39.0

April 1995 Wonder Woman #096 $1.50 (CCo) 15,400

April 1995 Wonder Woman #096 $1.50 (Diamond rank 85) 25.6

March 1995 Wonder Woman #095 $1.50 (CCo) 14,175

March 1995 Wonder Woman #095 $1.50 (Diamond rank 109) 33.7

February 1995 Wonder Woman #094 $1.50 (CCo) 12,900

January 1995 Wonder Woman #093 $1.50 (CCo) 12,850

++++++++++

December 1994 Wonder Woman #092 $1.50 (CCo) 11,100

November 1994 Wonder Woman #091 $1.50 (CCo) 9,500

October 1994 Wonder Woman #000 $1.50 (CCo) 16,400

September 1994 Wonder Woman #090 $1.50 (CCo) 8,750

August 1994 Wonder Woman #089 $1.50 (CCo) 7,600

July 1994 Wonder Woman #088 $1.50 (CCo) 8,050

June 1994 Wonder Woman #087 $1.50 (CCo) 7,500

May 1994 Wonder Woman #086 $1.50 (CCo) 7,600

April 1994 Wonder Woman #085 $1.50 (CCo) 7,400 Deodato

March 1994 Wonder Woman #084 $1.50 (CCo) 7,800

February 1994 Wonder Woman #083 $1.50 (CCo) 8,100

January 1994 Wonder Woman #082 $1.25 (CCo) 8,375

++++++++++

December 1993 Wonder Woman #081 $1.25 (CCo) 8,600

November 1993 Wonder Woman #080 $1.25 (CCo) 8,550

October 1993 Wonder Woman #079 $1.25 (CCo) 8,650

September 1993 Wonder Woman #078 $1.25 (CCo) 8,900

August 1993 Wonder Woman #077 $1.25 (CCo) 9,600

July 1993 Wonder Woman #076 $1.25 (CCo) 9,700

June 1993 Wonder Woman #075 $1.25 (CCo) 10,350

May 1993 Wonder Woman #074 $1.25 (CCo) 9,450

April 1993 Wonder Woman #073 $1.25 (CCo) 9,650

March 1993 Wonder Woman #072 $1.25 (CCo) 9,400

February 1993 Wonder Woman #071 $1.25 (CCo) 9,350

January 1993 Wonder Woman #070 $1.25 (CCo) 9,100

++++++++++

December 1992 Wonder Woman #069 $1.25 (CCo) 9,400

November 1992 Wonder Woman #068 $1.25 (CCo) 10,000

October 1992 Wonder Woman #067 $1.25 (CCo) 10,950

September 1992 Wonder Woman #066 $1.25 (CCo) 11,450

August 1992 Wonder Woman #065 $1.25 (CCo) 12,050

July 1992 Wonder Woman #064 $1.25 (CCo) 12,050

June 1992 Wonder Woman #063 $1.25 (CCo) 13,550

May 1992 Wonder Woman Special $1.75 (CCo) 17,400

February 1992 Wonder Woman #062 $1.00 (CCo) 17,100 Last Perez

January 1992 Wonder Woman #061 $1.00 (CCo) 21,100

++++++++++

November 1991 Wonder Woman #060 $1.00 (CCo) 19,750

October 1991 Wonder Woman #059 $1.00 (CCo) 16,850

September 1991 Wonder Woman #058 $1.00 (CCo) 18,950

August 1991 Wonder Woman #057 $1.00 (CCo) 10,750

July 1991 Wonder Woman #056 $1.00 (CCo) 10,450

June 1991 Wonder Woman #055 $1.00 (CCo) 10,500

May 1991 Wonder Woman #054 $1.00 (CCo) 10,800

April 1991 Wonder Woman #053 $1.00 (CCo) 11,050

March 1991 Wonder Woman #052 $1.00 (CCo) 11,050

February 1991 Wonder Woman #051 $1.00 (CCo) 11,450

January 1991 Wonder Woman #050 $1.50 (CCo) 13,200

++++++++++

December 1990 Wonder Woman #049 $1.00 (CCo) 11,600

November 1990 Wonder Woman #048 $1.00 (CCo) 11,200

October 1990 Wonder Woman #047 $1.00 (CCo) 11,200

September 1990 Wonder Woman #046 $1.00 (CCo) 11,400

August 1990 Wonder Woman #045 $1.00 (CCo) 11,400

July 1990 Wonder Woman #044 $1.00 (CCo) 11,850

June 1990 Wonder Woman #043 $1.00 (CCo) 12,200

May 1990 Wonder Woman #042 $1.00 (CCo) 12,500

April 1990 Wonder Woman #041 $1.00 (CCo) 12,600

March 1990 Wonder Woman #040 $1.00 (CCo) 13,400

February 1990 Wonder Woman #039 $1.00 (CCo) 13,950

January 1990 Wonder Woman #038 $1.00 (CCo) 14,600

++++++++++

December 1989 Wonder Woman #037 $1.00 (CCo) 14,650

November 1989 Wonder Woman #036 $1.00 (CCo) 49,900

October 1989 Wonder Woman #035 $1.00 (CCo) 15,650

September 1989 Wonder Woman #034 $1.00 (CCo) 16,100

August 1989 Wonder Woman #033 $1.00 (CCo) 16,300

July 1989 Wonder Woman #032 $1.00 (CCo) 17,450

June 1989 Wonder Woman #031 $1.00 (CCo) 17,000

May 1989 Wonder Woman #030 $1.00 (CCo) 17,450

April 1989 Wonder Woman #029 $1.00 (CCo) 17,900

March 1989 Wonder Woman #028 $1.00 (CCo) 17,950

February 1989 Wonder Woman #027 $1.00 (CCo) 18,150

January 1989 Wonder Woman #026 $1.00 (CCo) 20,200

January 1989 Wonder Woman #025 $1.00 (CCo) 21,550

++++++++++

Holiday 1988 Wonder Woman #024 $1.00 (CCo) 19,150

December 1988 Wonder Woman #023 $1.00 (CCo) 20,850

November 1988 Wonder Woman #022 $1.00 (CCo) 20,100

October 1988 Wonder Woman #021 $1.00 (CCo) 21,250

September 1988 Wonder Woman #020 $0.75 (CCo) 21,000

August 1988 Wonder Woman #019 $0.75 (CCo) 21,100

July 1988 Wonder Woman #018 $0.75 (CCo) 21,900

June 1988 Wonder Woman #017 $0.75 (CCo) 21,400

May 1988 Wonder Woman #016 $0.75 (CCo) 25,750

April 1988 Wonder Woman #015 $0.75 (CCo) 23,650

March 1988 Wonder Woman #014 $0.75 (CCo) 23,450

February 1988 Wonder Woman #013 $0.75 (CCo) 28,050

January 1988 Wonder Woman #012 $0.75 (CCo) 27,800

++++++++++

December 1987 Wonder Woman #011 $0.75 (CCo) 22,700

November 1987 Wonder Woman #010 $0.75 (CCo) 24,600

October 1987 Wonder Woman #009 $0.75 (CCo) 24,200

September 1987 Wonder Woman #008 $0.75 (CCo) 24,400

August 1987 Wonder Woman #007 $0.75 (CCo) 23,450

July 1987 Wonder Woman #006 $0.75 (CCo) 22,200

June 1987 Wonder Woman #005 $0.75 (CCo) 21,600

May 1987 Wonder Woman #004 $0.75 (CCo) 23,050

April 1987 Wonder Woman #003 $0.75 (CCo) 22,700

March 1987 Wonder Woman #002 $0.75 (CCo) 25,650

February 1987 Wonder Woman #001 $0.75 (CCo) 39,250

#66 Posted by Press Oblivion (1656 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, great job!! Interesting numbers.

#67 Edited by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@drgnx: well isn't a surprise,just a new decade of flops for her,it's sad that comics don't know how to handle great female characters like wonder woman,sad but truth.

that's why mangas and animes kick their asess right now,they need to develop her properly,give her the right marketing and exposure,if not,she'll keep being a flop,while mangas take the spotlight,sesshomaru can tell you about it,lol,he knows how the unorthodox vision of females that comics have is the reason why they aren't successful as manga female characters like sailor moon,lina,etc.

There are not a whole lot of characters in the higher sales category, comic sales are not great these days (I am baffled all of Batman's 5 are in there though and Superman's 2 for that matter). Superman is no longer DC's icon, Batman is. But of the big three WW, is the straggler From what I'm seeing Aquman is not doing bad either so WW might only be beating Cyborg on the JLA, when you consider she is in the same sales category as "spin-offs" of other league member's comics, I guess this is relatively bad.

#68 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: as you can see some of wonder woman biggest sales are from 2006-2010 before the rebot she sold more,as you can see in the post above from the user "jphulk26",they have to promote her more out of comics,give her more exposure,TV,movies and videogames helped batman to become more popular than superman,they don't need to change wonder woman,it's not the character,they need to give her more exposure and do the right marketing.

#69 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26:thank you for the info,as we can see some of wonder woman biggest sales are from 2006-2010 before the rebot she sold more,they have to promote her more out of comics,give her more exposure,TV,movies and videogames helped batman to become more popular than superman,they don't need to change wonder woman,it's not the character,they need to give her more exposure and do the right marketing.

#70 Edited by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: The question would be how is her relative position compared to other comics before and after the reboot. Did other sales drop across the board?

Because it is not a matter of just marketing more; movie sales and TV series might not promote more comic sales. Just because you like the movie, does not mean you're going to suddenly like the comics again. I'm not saying they won't send some customers to the comics, but if there is an issue with the comic, it can only fix itself. If there is a general disinterest in the comic the movie won't change that, if there is a disinterest in the character, the movie/show can help that, but won't increase comics if people are not interested in that form of media for the character.

The end game is not to increase comic sales, they are not going to throw out a movie and some ads to sell more issue. They are looking to market a franchise, so a movie is part of the "ends" not the "means". While Movies, shows, comics, and games might feed into each others popularity, they are going to stand and fail on their own, meaning each has to attract and sustain their markets. Tie-in games tend to be a good example of why you shouldn't expect a movie to carry another form of media.

I also don't see a movie just increasing sales of comics unless the comics themselves are good, meaning once the person picks up the issue, they want to keep reading it because it is good. There is also the topic of limited budget, if someone is going to buy x amount of comics, they would have to drop something to get a new title. There are a lot more nuances in that, that I'd rather not explore right now, but hope you get my point.

Basically DC is looking at things from a Franchise perspective, for each character and their universe as a whole. My main concern when I read your posts (and sorry if I'm misreading your intentions) is you think they just need to market her better by throwing out more media to popularize her more. But they need to figure out how to market her media and ensure there is in fact a market for that form of media, and accept that some forms off media might actually be niche and focus on areas that have a wider fan-base.

Batman has always been strong, I mean look at the Adam west show, that was popular even in the 90s, and some still love it. Even Superman shows don't have that type of staying power, it could just be Batman is more appealing in more forms of media.

Recaps: This turned into a longer post than I expected: was multi-tasking, so might be a bit disjointed <.<,

Summary: Comic issues must be fixed by comic staff/writers and some characters have better marketability in specific forms of media than others.

#71 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx:

the thing is that every character can sell but you have to do the right promotion and marketing,wonder woman was a very good seller in the 40s and 50s because she was new and the first female hero with her own comic,she paid the way for many females;wonder woman was a very good seller in the 70s thanks to the lynda carter show,but what happended after that?,DC proved that they don't know how to be consistent with her and do the right things, they lost their way with her,in the late 70s they took away her powers,then they gave them back,they made a joke out of her rogue gallery,they gave her pants,then they took them away,now they make her zeus daugther,and we are still in a never ending road to limbo,they make it seem so hard to handle her character but it's not hard at all,they had great runs with perez,ruka,simone,but they never did anything,like if they think that she will sell even if they don't do anything for the character,some of her best selling runs weren't the best written,they were the runs that had hype(40s and 50s the first main female,70s lynda carter),she was also selling very well with the ruka run,and simone run,they could have taken advantage from that and give her more exposure during that time to sell even more comics,but they just didn't do anything,then they ask why she dosn't sell and change her costume or her origin,making her unable to stablish herself as a character because of so many unecesary changes,they don't realize that it's not the character,it's them.

movies can increase comic sales,maybe not by a big marging but they help to improve the sales,and would help her to get more exposure and make more people find her interesting,people that never read her before and the movie could change their perception of her.

the best they can do right now,is adapt a good run into an animated series,maybe arazzello run,so the series will be as mature as the run that is based on and that can improve the sales of her current run,something like what animes do for mangas.

#72 Posted by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior:

Most of your first Paragraph basically says there is an issue with the comics, I'm saying only the comics can fix that (no movie, game, or show). But don't group Story with Marketing/Promotion. Also their goal is to expand their franchise not just sell more comics. You keep portraying their main goal as selling more comics, it could be they didn't expose her in other forms of media because they didn't feel they had a market, even if they had momentum at that time, it could have carried them straight into a brick wall.

movies can increase comic sales,maybe not by a big marging but they help to improve the sales,and would help her to get more exposure and make more people find her interesting,people that never read her before and the movie could change their perception of her.

If someone does not buy any comics, I don't see a movie, show, or game changing that. I also don't see hardcore comic readers being so out of touch that a movie or show would convince them to go pick up her comic, at best I could see casual readers interests' being peaked, and they are the least predictable market.

#73 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: wow,most of you have such a negative view,ok,do like you wish,blame the character for the flop,that's the easiest way to go.

#74 Edited by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior:

I'm saying:

Don't make one form of media for the purpose of promoting another form. Don't expect the movie to serve as a 120 minute ad for the comics. Make a movie for the purpose of launching a successful movie franchise, make a game for the same reason, and make a TV show so it can go on strong for 10 seasons and make money off the sponsors. Don't make a movie, game, show to promote a comic, because if there are problems with the comic, those won't fix it. If you make a movie for any purpose other than making a good movie, you will end up with "Batman and Robin". You make a Game for "cashing in" you end up with the Ironman movie Tie-in game (and half the other comic games out there). You make a TV show for promotion of other products, and you're lucky if it gets past 2 seasons. If there are issue with the comic, fix the comic, because no matter what you do outside that, if people don't like it, nothing else will change it.

The whole "more exposure" doesn't work for me because I would be baffled if a movie or show would actually inform someone that Wonder Woman exists and actually has a comic book they didn't know about. I believe in peaking interest, but not by any revelationary fashion. Green Arrow has crappy sales, but he got popular from smallville, as they saw he could work on the small screen as a character (and they chose a different actor to boot), but I would think DC launches movies and shows based on popularity of the comics and not with the expectation of those boosting the comics.

For perspective, you can sell toys and t-shirts as well, but those should be by-products off success not the focus of the media.

#75 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: you are wrong,you think the reason why she doesn't sell it's because of her as a character,but it's not,she could be a better comic seller,she isn't the reason why she doesn't sell more comics,there was nothing wrong with the character before,they should fix her now,because her new changes were unecesary.

#76 Posted by redhoodnet (153 posts) - - Show Bio

I can only answer this question from my perspective. I am a fan of the Bat Books as well as the Green Lantern Books. I really wanted to get on a few N52 books that were one title books. Since I read Justice League because of Batman and Green Lantern I decided to pick up WW and Flash. I have never read WW or the Flash pre N52. Since I have no real history with them I can tell you what I think as a "virgin" reader to the book.

WW really grabbed me off the start but did seem to slow down after the first 3 issues. I still really enjoyed it but for me it picked up after issue #7 again but I think that some readers may have not came along for the ride.

I do like where the book has gone and still pick it up every month.

#77 Posted by Press Oblivion (1656 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that what @gokuwarrior: is getting at is that he want's to see Wonder Woman with all of the peripheral multimedia stuff that Batman and Superman have, Movies, Games, TV series, merchandise, and big company wide crossovers, so that she will appear to be on equal ground with them instead of just saying that she's a part of the Trinity on the printed page. If this were to occur, it would also look like she is a part of the Trinity in the wider market as well.

@gokuwarrior: also wants these Wonder Woman projects to have a consistent execution so it doesn't matter if you're opening the comic or viewing the cartoon, you're getting the same Wonder Woman experience. This notion of greater multimedia exposure would ideally lead to increased Wonder Woman comic book sales.

I can't disagree with that desire. I would love to see that happen but I don't think that it will, there are too many conflicting versions of Wonder Woman to draw from to have the consistency that fans are looking for. Her Justice League and TV show appearance would be just like Smallville in contrast to Superman Returns.

It's not just about selling more comics, that's the hopeful byproduct of all of this peripheral stuff, but more to the point of DC & Warner recognizing Wonder Woman with all of the tools that they recognize Batman and Superman with, making her a true part of the Trinity in every way, not just words.

And I'll say again as I've said before, it's the fans that dictate if all of this happens, not the corporate monsters. The fans just aren't there.

#78 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@Press Oblivion: if the fans aren't there,they should fix it,the fans used to be there,but you always blame the character,so you know what?,if all of you think that people find her so uncool,that none of her runs made people like her,then why don't we just tell DC to write her out?,make her dissapear so people won't be bothered with her "uncool" pesence anymore.

#79 Edited by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@drgnx: you are wrong,you think the reason why she doesn't sell it's because of her as a character,but it's not,she could be a better comic seller,she isn't the reason why she doesn't sell more comics,there was nothing wrong with the character before,they should fix her now,because her new changes were unecesary.

I'm wrong because you disagree with an argument that I didn't make? Classic!

Word to the wise, next time you attempt to put words in someones mouth, and argue against it, make sure those very words can't be quoted from your very own statements

well isn't a surprise,just a new decade of flops for her,it's sad that comics don't know how to handle great female characters like wonder woman,sad but truth.

that's why mangas and animes kick their asess right now,they need to develop her properly,give her the right marketing and exposure,if not,she'll keep being a flop,while mangas take the spotlight,sesshomaru can tell you about it,lol,he knows how the unorthodox vision of females that comics have is the reason why they aren't successful as manga female characters like sailor moon,lina,etc.

DC proved that they don't know how to be consistent with her and do the right things, they lost their way with her,in the late 70s they took away her powers,then they gave them back,they made a joke out of her rogue gallery,they gave her pants,then they took them away,now they make her zeus daugther,and we are still in a never ending road to limbo,they make it seem so hard to handle her character but it's not hard at all

...

,then they ask why she dosn't sell and change her costume or her origin,making her unable to stablish herself as a character because of so many unecesary changes,they don't realize that it's not the character,it's them

You yourself have stated there are issues with her, My responses merely assume your views had merit in that there are issue with the comics, in which case, my counter is to go to the source and fix the problem there. I'm merely adopting your standpoint and pointing out why I don't agree with your fix. My views on Movies, shows, and games are that their purpose and expectation should be to expand the franchise and not promote one aspect of it, this is a general view, not just for Wonder Woman. These are 2 separate arguments, one being about the purpose and expectations of expansion of the franchise, the other being about fixing a problem at the source (if one exists, and if it can be fixed). I've also made it clear in my first statements that I think comics, in general (not just WW), might not be as popular, this feeds back to my views of other forms of media for expansion rather than promoting comics and is based on keeping franchises alive and profitable outside of one aspect.

#80 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: no,they think there are issues with her,that's why they make changes that aren't necesary,there was nothing wrong with her before.

you said that they have to fix the comic,oboiusly you think that she is the problem,if comics aren't as popular as before is debatable,there are still many comic titles that are popular and sell very well.

maybe they should do what japanese do,you know animes do a lot for mangas when it comes to sales,maybe adapt comic runs into animated series would work.

#81 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx said:

@gokuwarrior:

I also don't see a movie just increasing sales of comics unless the comics themselves are good, meaning once the person picks up the issue, they want to keep reading it because it is good. There is also the topic of limited budget, if someone is going to buy x amount of comics, they would have to drop something to get a new title. There are a lot more nuances in that, that I'd rather not explore right now, but hope you get my point.

Basically DC is looking at things from a Franchise perspective, for each character and their universe as a whole. My main concern when I read your posts (and sorry if I'm misreading your intentions) is you think they just need to market her better by throwing out more media to popularize her more. But they need to figure out how to market her media and ensure there is in fact a market for that form of media, and accept that some forms off media might actually be niche and focus on areas that have a wider fan-base.

Batman has always been strong, I mean look at the Adam west show, that was popular even in the 90s, and some still love it. Even Superman shows don't have that type of staying power, it could just be Batman is more appealing in more forms of media.

I really agree with your point here, but I think what Gokuwarrior and I believe is something different. I think its about awareness of the character in general, who she is, what she is about. To quote something I wrote recently on another post about the affect media and promotion has on a character:

"The Avengers and Dark Knight Movie have changed things. (to paraphrase The Joker)

It is clear that comic book movies now have become a main marketing platform for comic characters as the market for comic movies appeal has widened, so everyone thinks suddenly superheroes are cool. This was not the case in recent history. This has been a very slow progression of lesser known Superheroes like the Xmen, Wolverine, Iron Man etc infiltrating popular culture and taking Supermans spot light.

The gasp I heard at the end of the Avengers movie when Thanos came up was massive, and made me laugh, because it was a two second pause between the first and the second. The first from 10 comic fans who actually knew who he was, the second from the other kids including myself who wanted to pretend they were in on it as well. Now you could ask almost any kid in the world and they now know who Thanos is, and can tell you stuff about him. In past comic movies didn´t have that impact, so you are right about comic movies before The Dark Knight, Iron Man and The Avengers, but wrong about movies marketing comic characters now. Fact, we are heading slowly into a new golden age for comics. If it isn´t for monthly publications it will be for solo graphic novels surrounding the characters being marketted in film and other media. I do have stats for that by the way.

Historically speaking it is also easy to see that Batmans film career has helped in comic sales, (It also helped attract a great deal of talent to work on Batman projects as did Superman in the 70s which in fact even Mark Waid has admitted to several times; he wouldn´t be a comic writer if it wasn´t for Reeve´s superman), and Xmens cartoon certainly had a great deal of impact on sales of X-Men comics in the 90s. Obviously it is not a full proof magic formula, people are not as you pointed out going to watch a bad Hulk movie and then buy the comic or vice versa. What often happens rather is that comic book enthusiasts get into comics much later in life than their first experience with a comic character they like. They may watch the movies when they are very young, think a character is cool, watch the movies again and again; and then guess what, when they become interested in comics, guess which ones they decide to look at first. For instance I loved the Incredible Hulk Bill Bixby, when I was a kid, would watch it all the time, but I didn´t therefore think, I´m going to buy a Hulk comic. It doesn´t work like that. But years later, when I got into comics through the X-Men cartoon; my thought was, ok what other heroes do I like, and what came to mind was the Batman film from the 90s and The Hulk from the TV show growing up. Thats how you build an awareness of a character, that later will translate into comic sales. Its not oh watched the film next day buy the comic, of course not. But during this time when comics are big and names are being established for a younger generation, DC has to use the media arm of their organisation if they are going to be competitive in comics in future. Then as well they have to make sure the quality of the comic is good as well. Because when people first start buying comics they will look for characters ones who had an impact in other media like cartoons, movies, and videogames when they were young. They also look for Graphic Novels and Comic events. If Elektra, Punisher and Daredevil films didn´t work to increase the sales of their comics in the long term thats because their films weren´t considered that cool, a generation wasn´t profoundly impacted by them. But the generation that are eating up Batman comics now are the generation that grew up on the films and animated show which had huge cultural impact. Just like the generation who bought Perrez´s Wonder Woman, grew up on the 70s TV show.

I´d also like to add that with WW, the only image the general public or even comic reading public have in their head is her from 70s show, in the invisible plane that looked like a bottle, and from the recent JL animated series, where she was hardly depicted in the greatest light. Now I actually love the 70s show, but still it was a bit goofy for our modern cynical tastes and WW as a character has developed alot more since then, into something a lot more pallitable for our generation, if she is to succeed in future and have interest from writers as well as from comic fans then the new image has to be presented to the world. No one who hasn´t read Wonder Woman (in the general public) would think WW is bad ass enough to personally blind herself with acid to win a fight with Medusa, people think she´s too busy twirling around in glitter for that. Thats the problem with WW. As good as her show was in the 70s its left an indelible media image imprinted on peoples minds that needs to be changed. We still have the (really good but out dated) Lynda Carter image of a woman twirling in glitter and turning into WW. I doubt if the original Batman movie had been as campy as Adam Wests show, or had not even been made, Batman wouldn´t be half as popular as he is now. Now I´m happy they didn´t make a WW in the vein of a Christopher Reeves style WW movie, because I think now in a new era at this time, when friends I know who have never talked about superheroes before, are suddenly actually quite interested in the latest movies would actually be willing to give a darker edgier WW film a chance. You have to recognise Iron Man, Dark Knight and Avengers and I belive Man Of Steel next year have changed the game. Who ever realizes - Marvel or DC that that could translate into giving some of their female characters a chance - first (if handled correctly i.e. the film, or animated series is genuinely edgy cool and hip) will I believe rake it in, if not in comics at first (thats a more long term investment, which will need good writing in solo comics that won´t cause confusion and graphic novels), certainly in the short term in box office, toys and comic related products. Its a gamble, but one well worth it. Just look at films like The Hunger Games with female leads. Wonder Woman could kind of be like that for comics if done well. We need a younger, edgier, hipper media representation, and with all the dark Greek Mythology, the feminist appeal of her mythology, the warrior stuff, plus WW is kinda easy on the eyes, that could translate into a mega hit if handled well. She could potentially appeal to men and women a like.

@colonyofcells said:

Things are eternally changing and rearranging and we should expect more future reboots, retcons, revamps for Wonder Woman. Dc is doing the right thing in updating Wonder Woman every now and then, so Wonder Woman is getting the right treatment. Warner cannot just throw money at dc characters bec. Warner already lost tons of money in marketing the flop Green Lantern movie.

One, I think thats a bit short sighted, Green Lantern was a flop because it was bad. Its reviews were terrible, and it was handled awfully. Second, it actually did quite well in the first weekend, but suffered from word of mouth. The fact is hype, timing and strategy is half the job, the second is putting a good product out there. People might say well, what about Watchmen? or Dredd? I personally am baffeled that Watchmen didn´t do better, but I think people were expecting more of a lighthearted fair than they got and ultimately, I think that movie has done DC more good than harm actually. But what the Watchmen and Dredd missed was the right platform to launch these characters on. Marvel got it completely. Great strategy, set up a marvel universe with Avengers as the end goal. I think are crazy not to do the same. if it works it works. And so what if Marvel claimed they are copying them, which they never will; if DC springboard solo films that are good and treated like Nolan did for Batman Begins (meaning the tone will be more mature) it could differ them enough from marvel for it to work. That way people are gonna be like ok JL is coming, I´ll watch Flash and I´ll watch WW, as its a set up for the next big cinematic event the Justice League. DC should have started this like a year ago. They still could pull it off, but doing a JL movie just like that, to compete with the avengers is stupid, and if it isn´t good, they will seriously damage themselves. As I´ve said if Marvel can believe in Antman, The Flash and WW should be a walk in the park for DC. This superhero craze won´t last forever and they should capatalize now.

@Press Oblivion: @gokuwarrior:

#82 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

L

#83 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not really see how the best marvel movie strategy can save the dumb movies like guardians of the galaxy and ant man. The successful marvel movies are based on interesting comic book characters : iron man (technology), thor (god), captain america (patriot from world war 2). Hulk (monster) has not been as successful so the best marvel movie strategy is obviously not the perfect solution and will not save the movies of boring characters. DC has more silly properties from the golden age and silver age (before the influence of the more realistic and more drama marvel way) and dc won't get success on silly properties by just copying marvel strategy. For rehabilitating silly old properties, the better model to follow is Transformers movies which used to be just a silly old little known cartoon from the 1980s where the villain Megatron turns into a tiny gun who worked with 3 robots (Reflector) who could turn into a tiny camera and Soundwave shoots out cassette tapes that turn into robots. Lots of updates were needed to make the Decepticons look cool in movies since young people don't even know what cassette tapes are. There also many silly elements in Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc. which need updates to stop the majority from making jokes about these silly heroes all the time.

#84 Edited by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

I really agree with your point here, but I think what Gokuwarrior and I believe is something different. I think its about awareness of the character in general, who she is, what she is about. To quote something I wrote recently on another post about the affect media and promotion has on a character:

"The Avengers and Dark Knight Movie have changed things. (to paraphrase The Joker)

It is clear that comic book movies now have become a main marketing platform for comic characters as the market for comic movies appeal has widened, so everyone thinks suddenly superheroes are cool. This was not the case in recent history. This has been a very slow progression of lesser known Superheroes like the Xmen, Wolverine, Iron Man etc infiltrating popular culture and taking Supermans spot light.

The gasp I heard at the end of the Avengers movie when Thanos came up was massive, and made me laugh, because it was a two second pause between the first and the second. The first from 10 comic fans who actually knew who he was, the second from the other kids including myself who wanted to pretend they were in on it as well. Now you could ask almost any kid in the world and they now know who Thanos is, and can tell you stuff about him. In past comic movies didn´t have that impact, so you are right about comic movies before The Dark Knight, Iron Man and The Avengers, but wrong about movies marketing comic characters now. Fact, we are heading slowly into a new golden age for comics. If it isn´t for monthly publications it will be for solo graphic novels surrounding the characters being marketted in film and other media. I do have stats for that by the way.

I would like to know specifically which comment you are referring to regarding marketing comics characters. Because here is what I've said on the matter several times.

Drgnx Said:

Don't make one form of media for the purpose of promoting another form. Don't expect the movie to serve as a 120 minute ad for the comics. Make a movie for the purpose of launching a successful movie franchise, make a game for the same reason, and make a TV show so it can go on strong for 10 seasons and make money off the sponsors. Don't make a movie, game, show to promote a comic, because if there are problems with the comic, those won't fix it. If you make a movie for any purpose other than making a good movie, you will end up with "Batman and Robin". You make a Game for "cashing in" you end up with the Ironman movie Tie-in game (and half the other comic games out there). You make a TV show for promotion of other products, and you're lucky if it gets past 2 seasons. If there are issue with the comic, fix the comic, because no matter what you do outside that, if people don't like it, nothing else will change it.

The whole "more exposure" doesn't work for me because I would be baffled if a movie or show would actually inform someone that Wonder Woman exists and actually has a comic book they didn't know about. I believe in peaking interest, but not by any revelationary fashion. Green Arrow has crappy sales, but he got popular from smallville, as they saw he could work on the small screen as a character (and they chose a different actor to boot), but I would think DC launches movies and shows based on popularity of the comics and not with the expectation of those boosting the comics.

For perspective, you can sell toys and t-shirts as well, but those should be by-products off success not the focus of the media.

................

These are 2 separate arguments, one being about the purpose and expectations of expansion of the franchise, the other being about fixing a problem at the source (if one exists, and if it can be fixed). I've also made it clear in my first statements that I think comics, in general (not just WW), might not be as popular, this feeds back to my views of other forms of media for expansion rather than promoting comics and is based on keeping franchises alive and profitable outside of one aspect.

jphulk26 said:

Historically speaking it is also easy to see that Batmans film career has helped in comic sales, (It also helped attract a great deal of talent to work on Batman projects as did Superman in the 70s which in fact even Mark Waid has admitted to several times; he wouldn´t be a comic writer if it wasn´t for Reeve´s superman), and Xmens cartoon certainly had a great deal of impact on sales of X-Men comics in the 90s. Obviously it is not a full proof magic formula, people are not as you pointed out going to watch a bad Hulk movie and then buy the comic or vice versa. What often happens rather is that comic book enthusiasts get into comics much later in life than their first experience with a comic character they like. They may watch the movies when they are very young, think a character is cool, watch the movies again and again; and then guess what, when they become interested in comics, guess which ones they decide to look at first. For instance I loved the Incredible Hulk Bill Bixby, when I was a kid, would watch it all the time, but I didn´t therefore think, I´m going to buy a Hulk comic. It doesn´t work like that. But years later, when I got into comics through the X-Men cartoon; my thought was, ok what other heroes do I like, and what came to mind was the Batman film from the 90s and The Hulk from the TV show growing up. Thats how you build an awareness of a character, that later will translate into comic sales. Its not oh watched the film next day buy the comic, of course not. But during this time when comics are big and names are being established for a younger generation, DC has to use the media arm of their organisation if they are going to be competitive in comics in future. Then as well they have to make sure the quality of the comic is good as well. Because when people first start buying comics they will look for characters ones who had an impact in other media like cartoons, movies, and videogames when they were young. They also look for Graphic Novels and Comic events. If Elektra, Punisher and Daredevil films didn´t work to increase the sales of their comics in the long term thats because their films weren´t considered that cool, a generation wasn´t profoundly impacted by them. But the generation that are eating up Batman comics now are the generation that grew up on the films and animated show which had huge cultural impact. Just like the generation who bought Perrez´s Wonder Woman, grew up on the 70s TV show.

If you're trying to address a specific point of mine here, let me know because I don't feel like guessing, I'm fairly certain I've very clearly covered my views on marketability across different media in previous posts in a manner that is easily quotable. You don't consider that shows/movies might also have gotten a boost from existing comic fan-base, or that the individual media were actually good enough that they were self sustaining. You also seem the think the end goal is simply to push more comic sales, which I don't agree with.

I´d also like to add that with WW, the only image the general public or even comic reading public have in their head is her from 70s show, in the invisible plane that looked like a bottle, and from the recent JL animated series, where she was hardly depicted in the greatest light. Now I actually love the 70s show, but still it was a bit goofy for our modern cynical tastes and WW as a character has developed alot more since then, into something a lot more pallitable for our generation, if she is to succeed in future and have interest from writers as well as from comic fans then the new image has to be presented to the world. No one who hasn´t read Wonder Woman (in the general public) would think WW is bad ass enough to personally blind herself with acid to win a fight with Medusa, people think she´s too busy twirling around in glitter for that. Thats the problem with WW. As good as her show was in the 70s its left an indelible media image imprinted on peoples minds that needs to be changed. We still have the (really good but out dated) Lynda Carter image of a woman twirling in glitter and turning into WW. I doubt if the original Batman movie had been as campy as Adam Wests show, or had not even been made, Batman wouldn´t be half as popular as he is now. Now I´m happy they didn´t make a WW in the vein of a Christopher Reeves style WW movie, because I think now in a new era at this time, when friends I know who have never talked about superheroes before, are suddenly actually quite interested in the latest movies would actually be willing to give a darker edgier WW film a chance. You have to recognise Iron Man, Dark Knight and Avengers and I belive Man Of Steel next year have changed the game. Who ever realizes - Marvel or DC that that could translate into giving some of their female characters a chance - first (if handled correctly i.e. the film, or animated series is genuinely edgy cool and hip) will I believe rake it in, if not in comics at first (thats a more long term investment, which will need good writing in solo comics that won´t cause confusion and graphic novels), certainly in the short term in box office, toys and comic related products. Its a gamble, but one well worth it. Just look at films like The Hunger Games with female leads. Wonder Woman could kind of be like that for comics if done well. We need a younger, edgier, hipper media representation, and with all the dark Greek Mythology, the feminist appeal of her mythology, the warrior stuff, plus WW is kinda easy on the eyes, that could translate into a mega hit if handled well. She could potentially appeal to men and women a like.

Most of this response applies to people who are out of touch with the comics but would be interested in getting (back) into them. I'm sure most people know Wonder Women exists, so this is not a question of awareness but perception (based on your description of the issue). If someone read her comics and stopped reading them, I don't see a movie getting them to start reading again, simply because she now has a movie. If someone does not ever want to read a comic a movie won't change that. If someone has a limited budget/time and already has their staple readings, I don't see a movie changing that. There is going to be a bandwagon market (who will jump on as friends do and/or popularity rises because of movies/shows), but if the comic does not appeal to those new readers (for the same reasons people may start reading her comics and stop), it is going to be a short ride. Your main point here is about bringing people to the bar, but that is only half the battle; I'm merely pointing out they need to want to drink and keep drinking, good wings and service won't do that if the drinks are not appealing or if people just don't want to drink.

#85 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: @drgnx said:

I would like to know specifically which comment you are referring to regarding marketing comics characters. Because here is what I've said on the matter several times.

I was talking about your general claim, and, argument, which by the way I agreed with. I didn´t think that Movies, TV or Videogames in and of themselves translate into comic sales. As you´ve pointed out, and I think again I like your phrasing is they increase "awareness" and change "perception". But as you´ve pointed out people know who Wonder Woman is, it´s the perception of her that needs changing, which you say later on. I would also add people need to be reminded of who she is. Because what is stuck in their head is not an accurate picture of who she´s developed to be, or even what made the Lynda Carter show as good as it was. That can be achieved quite simply by updating her story for a modern audience the way her animated film did; but they need to do that for a more far reaching audience.

If you're trying to address a specific point of mine here, let me know because I don't feel like guessing,

I haven´t got the hang of this quoting thing it´s quite laborious on this computer. I have to quote everything then delete around the bits I want to quote.

I'm fairly certain I've very clearly covered my views on marketability across different media in previous posts in a manner that is easily quotable. You don't consider that shows/movies might also have gotten a boost from existing comic fan-base,

No I honestly don´t. Of course thats me personally, but in my school when The X-men animated show came out I knew no one who knew who the X-Men were. It was an overnight sensation. Its like saying: "don´t you think "Friends" the TV show had an already existing fanbase that supported it when it came out?" and "isn´t it really that people already knew Jennifer Aniston and the cast and in fact that is why the show was successful?"... Thats patently false and the same applies to the 90s X-Men show, or even Batman... No FRIENDS and X-Men became popular shows because they were really well written and produced, had really good time slots for the type of show they were, and good word of mouth spread. All of a sudden we have the Rachel haircut and Chandlerism´s just like with the X-Men Wolverine became a star to people who´d never picked up a comic. Then all of a sudden merchandise was everywhere. After the first season you could buy a X-Men comic, that was consistent with what was happening in the show at your local corner store. That´s the smart way to do things, then you give your product a fighting chance.

Besides if what you are saying is true, how come no X-Men animated show has had that kind of success since, as according to you an in-built fanbase should achieve that. Also there was a X-men cartoon that came out before the 90s show which was a flop, because it was poorly written and executed.

Wonder Womans publication is full of confusion, so even if you like her in the animated film, or Justice League, you go and buy a comic and the writing is awful, the villains you´re interested in aren´t there, everything you´ve invested in does not really exist in the comics. I just happened to be very patient and sift through to get to the good stuff of WW, which was no way as easy to find as The X-Men. So as I´ve said, you are right with what you are pointing out about the comics. If WW is to have a fighting chance she needs consistency, good graphic novels, updates on her origin that are also high quality. That way DC if they choose to could potentially take advantage of other media representations of her, like a film etc. But as it stands now if they did a film of Wonder Woman it would be a wasted opportunity to increase her comic sales in the long term, because unlike me who is patient, others will pick up most of her comic runs and just think what is this crap? including Azz´s which is highly confusing and contradictory to any mainstream notion of the character.

or that the individual media were actually good enough that they were self sustaining. You also seem the think the end goal is simply to push more comic sales, which I don't agree with.

I think I´ve answered that question above? But of course the point of a Film is to sell film tickets and the point of a comic is to sell comics. But it would be silly of a major comic company to think like that when presenting their properties in Film. A film of a comic, whether good or bad, is always advertising for the character. Whether it is for comic or noncomic readers, simply because it reaches far more people. Just like a comic is advertising for a film, because we know the material in the book, is likely some of what we are going to get in a film if they build a film around the titular character. It would be absurd not to think that. So while I agree, its no big deal for WB´s if a Wonder Woman film made half a billion bux, but didn´t increase the comic sales of the character, it would none the less be a wasted opportunity, if DC didn´t at least act as if their is potential, that a half million people are watching this movie maybe some of them now or in future will want to buy the comic. DC has to prepare for that with there characters. As it stands they´ve only prepared for that eventuality in the case of Superman, Batman or Green Lantern and maybe the Justice League. The point is The Flash or Young Justice, or whoever else they may decide to market in other mediums, they need to be aware that that might influence what comics people buy now or in future, and they need to present therefore a consistent and compelling image of these characters or they may loose out. I hope that explains that.

Most of this response applies to people who are out of touch with the comics but would be interested in getting (back) into them. I'm sure most people know Wonder Women exists, so this is not a question of awareness but perception (based on your description of the issue). If someone read her comics and stopped reading them, I don't see a movie getting them to start reading again, simply because she now has a movie.

Again this maybe due to the quality of the vast majority of her comics as opposed to the character. People will stop reading something if they percieve it to be bad; thats why DC has a responsibility - because so many names and authors write these characters - to assure a consistency of quality and story telling, and to make sure when people do look for books on their characters, they find the right thing.

If someone does not ever want to read a comic a movie won't change that. If someone has a limited budget/time and already has their staple readings, I don't see a movie changing that. There is going to be a bandwagon market (who will jump on as friends do and/or popularity rises because of movies/shows), but if the comic does not appeal to those new readers (for the same reasons people may start reading her comics and stop), it is going to be a short ride.

Exactly, which is why I made the point above, but you seem to think thats a problem with the character, and thats where we differ, it also would contradict the point, because why would they like the character in film or animation, but not like them in the comic. Its not the character therefore at fault, its the story being told about the character that is at fault.

Your main point here is about bringing people to the bar, but that is only half the battle; I'm merely pointing out they need to want to drink and keep drinking, good wings and service won't do that if the drinks are not appealing or if people just don't want to drink.

I´m not really sure how this works as a metaphor or similly for this particular discussion; but I´ll have a go, its seems to me your point is well, the bar owner is unsure people will like the drink, and is so timid he´s refusing to even open the bar. That´s not how to operate surely, people have come to the bar so obviously they want to drink, you have to believe in your drink first, you have to like the drink your serving to get others to believe its good, and you have to serve that drink in many different flavors so you appeal to the broadest clientel possible. You have to choose your time as well, you don´t advertise your bar, do it successfully, get new people on board then only open Monday to Thursday. That is a waste of good marketing. Thats what I feel The New 52 has done with WW and most of its characters; I also think they wasted the animated film, which so many loved. Yeah it sold slowly at first, but as I said that was people weren´t aware of the character, now we like her and want a sequel they´re refusing to put it out even though its the fourth highest selling DVD they´ve got. Anyway really enjoyed your response, I hope this helps you understand my point of view.@colonyofcells:
#86 Edited by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

I´m not really sure how this works as a metaphor or similly for this particular discussion; but I´ll have a go, its seems to me your point is well, the bar owner is unsure people will like the drink, and is so timid he´s refusing to even open the bar. That´s not how to operate surely, people have come to the bar so obviously they want to drink, you have to believe in your drink first, you have to like the drink your serving to get others to believe its good, and you have to serve that drink in many different flavors so you appeal to the broadest clientel possible. You have to choose your time as well, you don´t advertise your bar, do it successfully, get new people on board then only open Monday to Thursday. That is a waste of good marketing. Thats what I feel The New 52 has done with WW and most of its characters; I also think they wasted the animated film, which so many loved. Yeah it sold slowly at first, but as I said that was people weren´t aware of the character, now we like her and want a sequel they´re refusing to put it out even though its the fourth highest selling DVD they´ve got. Anyway really enjoyed your response, I hope this helps you understand my point of view.@colonyofcells:

Mainly it was supposed to be about the concept of bringing a horse to water vs making him drink it. I just didn't want to refer to people as horses. This is nothing new, this feeds into my previous statements/notion regarding that you can make them aware of her or change her perception but if DC wants to increase her sales they have to make them want to read her comics. So making people more aware of her and changing their perception of the character is only one small step, and only really helps those who specifically don't read her comics because they are out of touch (and yes; Shows/movies/games can help here, but am not sure how large this group is). However, if there is an issue with the perception of her comics, or comics in general (independent of how people view her character), that is a separate issue that awareness and 'character' perception can't fix (and one that movies,games and TV shows should not aim to fix).

#87 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: @drgnx said:

@jphulk26 said:

I´m not really sure how this works as a metaphor or similly for this particular discussion; but I´ll have a go, its seems to me your point is well, the bar owner is unsure people will like the drink, and is so timid he´s refusing to even open the bar. That´s not how to operate surely, people have come to the bar so obviously they want to drink, you have to believe in your drink first, you have to like the drink your serving to get others to believe its good, and you have to serve that drink in many different flavors so you appeal to the broadest clientel possible. You have to choose your time as well, you don´t advertise your bar, do it successfully, get new people on board then only open Monday to Thursday. That is a waste of good marketing. Thats what I feel The New 52 has done with WW and most of its characters; I also think they wasted the animated film, which so many loved. Yeah it sold slowly at first, but as I said that was people weren´t aware of the character, now we like her and want a sequel they´re refusing to put it out even though its the fourth highest selling DVD they´ve got. Anyway really enjoyed your response, I hope this helps you understand my point of view.@colonyofcells:

Mainly it was supposed to be about the concept of bringing a horse to water vs making him drink it. I just didn't want to refer to people as horses. This is nothing new, this feeds into my previous statements/notion regarding that you can make them aware of her or change her perception but if DC wants to increase her sales they have to make them want to read her comics. So making people more aware of her and changing their perception of the character is only one small step, and only really helps those who specifically don't read her comics because they are out of touch (and yes; Shows/movies/games can help here, but am not sure how large this group is). However, if there is an issue with the perception of her comics, or comics in general (independent of how people view her character), that is a separate issue that awareness and 'character' perception can't fix (and one that movies,games and TV shows should not aim to fix).

I was totally with you up until the last sentence. As a cooporate enterprise whose product is these characters, it seems that changing the perception or updating - modernising - these iconic characters is what their business is. That should be done through as many platforms as is financially feesable and profitable. That means sometimes taking calculated and educated risks.

See this is also part of the problem of when art and business mix. Essentially superheroes are our modern mythology, so just like Akhilles and Hercules in past is something people believed in, so they would want their myths to be treated with respect, as do we modern readers and consumers of the superhero genre. But now business mixes into that, money making, these companies often don´t do what is best for the character, and act instead to garner short term profit. Their thinking is "How can we make the quickest profit off of our investment?" rather than a long term strategy of growing the business. marvel is doing a much better job as far as I´m concerned in taking risks now that will grow the business in future. Whether its comics, film, toys, cartoons.

DC can only rely on Batman and Superman for so long, but people interest wane when they see the same thing all the time, as is often said absence makes the heart grow fonder. So they should use this time now they´ve established Superman and Batman, to come up with a coorprate strategy to build up the rest of their characters. Movies will surely help that,

I also think its about time DC had a wing soully dedicated to Graphic novels of their heroes, where writers will have the time to come up with one of stories for MMH, or The flash that are really good, therefore the quality of these heroes stories would improve, because they´ll have self contained stories of people who love the characters. But they´re so invested in this monthly continuous installment with its convoluted plot lines, that it becomes very hard for new people to get into the stories of the characters involved. They also don´t put out perfectly good material incase it contradicts the current continuity of a characters current story. So many WW graphic novel ideas have been passed on or are stuck in their vaults, because they didn´t distribute them at the time, some I´ve heard really good things about.

Anyway you didn´t reply to any of the other points I made. do you agree or disagree?

#88 Edited by lorex (958 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say given the lack of exposure Wonder Woman gets, her sales numbers are quite good. Remember at DC its Batman, Superman and everyone else. Also if there were not successful Batman and Superman movies out there stoking the popularity fire the sales would not be quite so strong or at least there would not be so many titles with the same characters. One thing I will say the Wonder Woman title is almost completely isolated from the rest of the DCU. Yes she is in Justice League but as some have pointed out the WW in Jusitce League is almost completely different from the WW in the solo title. I think the lack of intergreation into the greated DCU is hurting WW sales but that probably goes against Azzarello's creative vision as he seems to be dealing with more of the mythological aspects of the WW mythos rather than the DCU at large.

#89 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@lorex: Agreed.

I hope personally he goes soon, i just think he´s better with the Batmans and Rorshachs of the world. They could try Gail again. Let her start from scratch, or the guy doing Batwoman.

#90 Posted by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@drgnx: @drgnx said:

@jphulk26 said:

I´m not really sure how this works as a metaphor or similly for this particular discussion; but I´ll have a go, its seems to me your point is well, the bar owner is unsure people will like the drink, and is so timid he´s refusing to even open the bar. That´s not how to operate surely, people have come to the bar so obviously they want to drink, you have to believe in your drink first, you have to like the drink your serving to get others to believe its good, and you have to serve that drink in many different flavors so you appeal to the broadest clientel possible. You have to choose your time as well, you don´t advertise your bar, do it successfully, get new people on board then only open Monday to Thursday. That is a waste of good marketing. Thats what I feel The New 52 has done with WW and most of its characters; I also think they wasted the animated film, which so many loved. Yeah it sold slowly at first, but as I said that was people weren´t aware of the character, now we like her and want a sequel they´re refusing to put it out even though its the fourth highest selling DVD they´ve got. Anyway really enjoyed your response, I hope this helps you understand my point of view.@colonyofcells:

Mainly it was supposed to be about the concept of bringing a horse to water vs making him drink it. I just didn't want to refer to people as horses. This is nothing new, this feeds into my previous statements/notion regarding that you can make them aware of her or change her perception but if DC wants to increase her sales they have to make them want to read her comics. So making people more aware of her and changing their perception of the character is only one small step, and only really helps those who specifically don't read her comics because they are out of touch (and yes; Shows/movies/games can help here, but am not sure how large this group is). However, if there is an issue with the perception of her comics, or comics in general (independent of how people view her character), that is a separate issue that awareness and 'character' perception can't fix (and one that movies,games and TV shows should not aim to fix).

I was totally with you up until the last sentence. As a cooporate enterprise whose product is these characters, it seems that changing the perception or updating - modernising - these iconic characters is what their business is. That should be done through as many platforms as is financially feesable and profitable. That means sometimes taking calculated and educated risks.

See this is also part of the problem of when art and business mix. Essentially superheroes are our modern mythology, so just like Akhilles and Hercules in past is something people believed in, so they would want their myths to be treated with respect, as do we modern readers and consumers of the superhero genre. But now business mixes into that, money making, these companies often don´t do what is best for the character, and act instead to garner short term profit. Their thinking is "How can we make the quickest profit off of our investment?" rather than a long term strategy of growing the business. marvel is doing a much better job as far as I´m concerned in taking risks now that will grow the business in future. Whether its comics, film, toys, cartoons.

DC can only rely on Batman and Superman for so long, but people interest wane when they see the same thing all the time, as is often said absence makes the heart grow fonder. So they should use this time now they´ve established Superman and Batman, to come up with a coorprate strategy to build up the rest of their characters. Movies will surely help that,

I also think its about time DC had a wing soully dedicated to Graphic novels of their heroes, where writers will have the time to come up with one of stories for MMH, or The flash that are really good, therefore the quality of these heroes stories would improve, because they´ll have self contained stories of people who love the characters. But they´re so invested in this monthly continuous installment with its convoluted plot lines, that it becomes very hard for new people to get into the stories of the characters involved. They also don´t put out perfectly good material incase it contradicts the current continuity of a characters current story. So many WW graphic novel ideas have been passed on or are stuck in their vaults, because they didn´t distribute them at the time, some I´ve heard really good things about.

My last sentence is about using movies, games, and shows to address issues people have with the perception of the comic, not the character, how exactly does your last post address that? Second the guys who actually make the films don't care about anything other than the film, Nolan and Bale focus is their own success not effect on comic sales. DC might be aware that a good movie will bring attention to the comics, but if the comics are crap (not the character-concept), or people have issues with the concept of reading comics, people still won't read them.

Anyway you didn´t reply to any of the other points I made. do you agree or disagree?

disagree!

No I honestly don´t. Of course thats me personally, but in my school when The X-men animated show came out I knew no one who knew who the X-Men were. It was an overnight sensation. Its like saying: "don´t you think "Friends" the TV show had an already existing fanbase that supported it when it came out?" and "isn´t it really that people already knew Jennifer Aniston and the cast and in fact that is why the show was successful?"... Thats patently false and the same applies to the 90s X-Men show, or even Batman... No FRIENDS and X-Men became popular shows because they were really well written and produced, had really good time slots for the type of show they were, and good word of mouth spread. All of a sudden we have the Rachel haircut and Chandlerism´s just like with the X-Men Wolverine became a star to people who´d never picked up a comic. Then all of a sudden merchandise was everywhere. After the first season you could buy a X-Men comic, that was consistent with what was happening in the show at your local corner store. That´s the smart way to do things, then you give your product a fighting chance.

Besides if what you are saying is true, how come no X-Men animated show has had that kind of success since, as according to you an in-built fanbase should achieve that. Also there was a X-men cartoon that came out before the 90s show which was a flop, because it was poorly written and executed.

Wonder Womans publication is full of confusion, so even if you like her in the animated film, or Justice League, you go and buy a comic and the writing is awful, the villains you´re interested in aren´t there, everything you´ve invested in does not really exist in the comics. I just happened to be very patient and sift through to get to the good stuff of WW, which was no way as easy to find as The X-Men. So as I´ve said, you are right with what you are pointing out about the comics. If WW is to have a fighting chance she needs consistency, good graphic novels, updates on her origin that are also high quality. That way DC if they choose to could potentially take advantage of other media representations of her, like a film etc. But as it stands now if they did a film of Wonder Woman it would be a wasted opportunity to increase her comic sales in the long term, because unlike me who is patient, others will pick up most of her comic runs and just think what is this crap? including Azz´s which is highly confusing and contradictory to any mainstream notion of the character.

You're basically saying the animated cartoon helped boost comic sales, but completely dismiss the idea that its possible comic popularity helped boost cartoon popularity. This is completely duplicitous reasoning. So why is it possible that the x-men cartoon was solely popular because it was well written, but not possible that the comics were solely popular because they were well written? My Entire point about the comics is that people have to want to read them. I find it quite puzzling that you understand the concept that a stand alone show like Friends can be successful if it is appealing, but ignore that I've been saying the exact thing about comics. Do you think people would buy a friends comic if it was not appealing even if they loved the show?

I think I´ve answered that question above? But of course the point of a Film is to sell film tickets and the point of a comic is to sell comics. But it would be silly of a major comic company to think like that when presenting their properties in Film. A film of a comic, whether good or bad, is always advertising for the character. Whether it is for comic or noncomic readers, simply because it reaches far more people. Just like a comic is advertising for a film, because we know the material in the book, is likely some of what we are going to get in a film if they build a film around the titular character. It would be absurd not to think that. So while I agree, its no big deal for WB´s if a Wonder Woman film made half a billion bux, but didn´t increase the comic sales of the character, it would none the less be a wasted opportunity, if DC didn´t at least act as if their is potential, that a half million people are watching this movie maybe some of them now or in future will want to buy the comic. DC has to prepare for that with there characters. As it stands they´ve only prepared for that eventuality in the case of Superman, Batman or Green Lantern and maybe the Justice League. The point is The Flash or Young Justice, or whoever else they may decide to market in other mediums, they need to be aware that that might influence what comics people buy now or in future, and they need to present therefore a consistent and compelling image of these characters or they may loose out. I hope that explains that.

So let me repeat my point on this yet again. If you want to get people to read your comics, make a comic that people actually want to read. If you make people more aware of the comic, but they still don't want to read the comic, nothing you do outside of making people want to read the comic is going to change that.

Again this maybe due to the quality of the vast majority of her comics as opposed to the character. People will stop reading something if they percieve it to be bad; thats why DC has a responsibility - because so many names and authors write these characters - to assure a consistency of quality and story telling, and to make sure when people do look for books on their characters, they find the right thing.

So if the comicbook is bad or perceived as bad, or people have issues with reading concepts, do you think:

  1. DC should fix this with a movie
  2. Work on making the comicbook,and comicbooks in general more appealing?

Exactly, which is why I made the point above, but you seem to think thats a problem with the character, and thats where we differ, it also would contradict the point, because why would they like the character in film or animation, but not like them in the comic.

Its not the character therefore at fault, its the story being told about the character that is at fault.

Did I say there is a problem with the character? Because that was not my point? I've alluded there are issues that are causing people to not read her comics, and there are most likely related to comics themselves rather than just awareness or 'false' perception of the character in the comics, and that it appears to be a problem larger than just Wonder Women as you look at how some of the other characters are doing. But your last sentence would be an example of my point, fixing a bad story would make the comic more appealing and would be an example of "fixing the comic". But there could be other issues like people just not being interested in comics, even they are interested in the characters (as another example).

#91 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: I really don´t see how we´re disagreeing, accept I´m saying that films reach more people and could be good marketing for comics, but that equally the comic itself has to be good, if someone takes an interest after seeing the character in another medium.

I think your saying no matter what a film, Tv show etc is never ever going to increase the sales of a comic. If that is what you are saying then I do disagree.

I think the success of Batman is premised on exactly that.

But if as I think I understand you, you´re saying a comic can be self-sufficient if it is really good. Yes I agree. But I think that comic that is well written and thats why people are buying it, will reach an even larger audience if a good film or TV show brings it to the attention of a wider mass of people. Like I say the Waking Dead, or Harry Potter, etc. But its the quality of the comic that is 75% of the battle. I agree.

Wonder Womans real problem is inconsistent writing, I´ve admitted that, so i´m not sure where the disagreement is. Because you seem very heated up about my arguments saying I´m making you repeat things. But I do think if they made a film of her, and at the same time improved the writing of her comic, maybe made an event where her or her villain was central to a storyarch, involving superman, batman, JLA etc, and gave her some graphic novels, all those thing combined would garner interest in the character and perhaps change the general perception people have of the character. Whether that will put her in the top 10 or up there with Superman or Batman is debatable, but it would improve her sales.

By the By:

"You're basically saying the animated cartoon helped boost comic sales, but completely dismiss the idea that its possible comic popularity helped boost cartoon popularity. This is completely duplicitous reasoning. So why is it possible that the x-men cartoon was solely popular because it was well written, but not possible that the comics were solely popular because they were well written? My Entire point about the comics is that people have to want to read them. I find it quite puzzling that you understand the concept that a stand alone show like Friends can be successful if it is appealing, but ignore that I've been saying the exact thing about comics. Do you think people would buy a friends comic if it was not appealing even if they loved the show?"

This point here, I didn´t say the popularity of the animated show had nothing to do with it being a popular comic. I´m not sure what you´re saying here. All I said was that most people didn´t know who the X-Men were who started watching the cartoon. Wolverine was not a house hold name, and my friends were buying WWE/WWF sticker books from the corner store rather than comics until The X-Men came out. I never even heard Wolverine ever mentioned in a playground until that cartoon came out, so while comic fans may have tuned into watch the show, it would have taken more than them to make it a success. X-Men had already had a cartoon out, at a time when The X-Men comic was even more popular, and the cartoon absolutely tanked. No one was interested. However, when The X-Men animated tv show came out, comic book sales of the X-Men did increase, and it became so popular that X titles dominated nearly all the annual top 10 spots for the years it was running and I have proof of that. Subsequently leading to a film.

Whether X-Men comics were popular in the comic community before the show or not, is just quite irellevent, the fact is The X-Men animated series, improved merchandise sales, toy sales, brought X-Men to the attention of Hollywood and improved the sales of the comics, it generally raised the profile of the characters.

Goku has mentioned before doing an animated show based on comic runs of Wonder Woman that have been critically praised, and staying close to the material, while I don´t imagine it will be as successful as The X-Men animated series - that would be very hard to match - I think that would do wonders for her in general. No pun intended. Rucka and Simone come to mind in terms of good material for an adaptation. But again, DC has to back that up with improving her comics, making them consistent and giving her more events and or graphic novels.

Are you saying you think this strategy would fail? because then we´ll have to agree to disagree.

As for Friends actually books relating to friends, as well as Magazines where the stars were in interviews or news or gossip about the stars were in it, also sold loads. So again media is a very powerful medium to market books, comics, magazines, in fact it´s the most powerful medium to do so. Loads of people bought stupid books telling them everything about FRIENDS the show, I´m sure they could have sold a few comics of FRIENDS at the height of their fame as well, they were an absolute cash cow.

#92 Posted by Press Oblivion (1656 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@Press Oblivion: if the fans aren't there,they should fix it,the fans used to be there,but you always blame the character,so you know what?,if all of you think that people find her so uncool,that none of her runs made people like her,then why don't we just tell DC to write her out?,make her dissapear so people won't be bothered with her "uncool" pesence anymore.

Really dude? You're being overly dramatic.

#93 Edited by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26:

I really don´t see how we´re disagreeing, accept I´m saying that films reach more people and could be good marketing for comics, but that equally the comic itself has to be good, if someone takes an interest after seeing the character in another medium.

I think your saying no matter what a film, Tv show etc is never ever going to increase the sales of a comic. If that is what you are saying then I do disagree.

My only point here is that you should not launch a movie, game or show for the purpose of increasing comicbook sales but for the purpose of expanding the franchise. I have not disputed that there can be some benefit, but I don't think it is going to substantial; To increase comicbook sales substantially is the job of the comicbook writers and comicbook promoters. There really is no more or less to that view.

But if as I think I understand you, you´re saying a comic can be self-sufficient if it is really good. Yes I agree. But I think that comic that is well written and thats why people are buying it, will reach an even larger audience if a good film or TV show brings it to the attention of a wider mass of people. Like I say the Waking Dead, or Harry Potter, etc. But its the quality of the comic that is 75% of the battle. I agree.

Wonder Womans real problem is inconsistent writing, I´ve admitted that, so i´m not sure where the disagreement is. Because you seem very heated up about my arguments saying I´m making you repeat things. But I do think if they made a film of her, and at the same time improved the writing of her comic, maybe made an event where her or her villain was central to a storyarch, involving superman, batman, JLA etc, and gave her some graphic novels, all those thing combined would garner interest in the character and perhaps change the general perception people have of the character. Whether that will put her in the top 10 or up there with Superman or Batman is debatable, but it would improve her sales.

Yes because I've stated several times that if there are issues with the comics they need to focus on that area to fix sales there, but you keep talking about the benefits of franchising, which I am more than aware of, but in the end it is ultimately up to the comicbook department to work on increasing comicbook sales.

This point here, I didn´t say the popularity of the animated show had nothing to do with it being a popular comic. I´m not sure what you´re saying here. All I said was that most people didn´t know who the X-Men were who started watching the cartoon. Wolverine was not a house hold name, and my friends were buying WWE/WWF sticker books from the corner store rather than comics until The X-Men came out. I never even heard Wolverine ever mentioned in a playground until that cartoon came out, so while comic fans may have tuned into watch the show, it would have taken more than them to make it a success. X-Men had already had a cartoon out, at a time when The X-Men comic was even more popular, and the cartoon absolutely tanked. No one was interested. However, when The X-Men animated tv show came out, comic book sales of the X-Men did increase, and it became so popular that X titles dominated nearly all the annual top 10 spots for the years it was running and I have proof of that. Subsequently leading to a film.

You're assuming your group of friends here represent a larger picture, my friends knew who x-men were before the animated series came out, I don't know of anyone who bought the comic just because the show came out, but I do know a few people who read them because they actually liked the comics, the show might have peaked some interests, but the comics kept it ...

Whether X-Men comics were popular in the comic community before the show or not, is just quite irellevent, the fact is The X-Men animated series, improved merchandise sales, toy sales, brought X-Men to the attention of Hollywood and improved the sales of the comics, it generally raised the profile of the characters.

Whether or not X-men was popular or not is very relevant when we are discussing what made the characters popular in the first place?

Goku has mentioned before doing an animated show based on comic runs of Wonder Woman that have been critically praised, and staying close to the material, while I don´t imagine it will be as successful as The X-Men animated series - that would be very hard to match - I think that would do wonders for her in general. No pun intended. Rucka and Simone come to mind in terms of good material for an adaptation. But again, DC has to back that up with improving her comics, making them consistent and giving her more events and or graphic novels.

Are you saying you think this strategy would fail? because then we´ll have to agree to disagree.

You keep talking about the benefits of franchising, I'm not arguing against franchising so these points are mute. Building your franchise might have cross benefits, but if you want to increase sales in a specific area you have to work on that specific area of your franchise. My issue with Goku's points were I got the impression he thinks simply making a movie or show will catapult comicbook sales and while it might catapult awareness of the character, only an appealing comicbook will attract customers to the comicbook.

As for Friends actually books relating to friends, as well as Magazines where the stars were in interviews or news or gossip about the stars were in it, also sold loads. So again media is a very powerful medium to market books, comics, magazines, in fact it´s the most powerful medium to do so. Loads of people bought stupid books telling them everything about FRIENDS the show, I´m sure they could have sold a few comics of FRIENDS at the height of their fame as well, they were an absolute cash cow.

Yes but in the case your talking about a crossover concept where people bought a magazine or watched a show because of a popular character was in it, but unless the magazine or show was appealing, in its own right, they stopped right after. If the interview was bad, people might not buy the magazine even if they had other interviews or features on those characters. The same concept would apply if you bought a comicbook because you liked the movie, if its not appealing you would stop buying. I've already talked about peaking interest vs sustaining interest, so this is nothing new ..

All the people who read justice league know of wonder women, but clearly most don't buy her comics (or Supermans for that matter) so that is an example of where exposure and awareness is not a key factor in them not buying the comics but something else DC needs to explore (it could be the story but that is not a problem, for example, a movie (exposure) will fix, at least not for that group).

#94 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@Press Oblivion: why not?,you all say that people think she is not cool,and you obiously think that there's nothing to do about it,all of you have a fatal vision of her,like she has no future no matter what,so why waste more time with her right?.

#95 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: wonder woman is not silly and there is nothing wrong with her character,what you find interesting or not is subjective,there are a lot of shows and movies that are mediocre but they are successful,you always blame the character,so you know what?,if all of you think that people find her so uncool,that none of her runs made people like her,then why don't we just tell DC to write her out?,make her dissapear so people won't be bothered with her "uncool" pesence anymore.

#96 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

For the movies, Wonder Woman will get some updates for sure to reach a wider audience to avoid the jokes about lame dc super heroes.

#97 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: I agree completely, I think we´re talking around eachother, because I don´t believe a film or computer game etc is going to suddenly catupult WW comic sales to success. I think they would be a good marketing strategy for an already good comic, that is getting either critical or fan appreciation. That is what I´m saying, you´re emphasizing the importance of good writing, I´m emphasizing the importance of marketing through other mediums, but obviously both are needed for the continued success of WW and other DC characters in general.

#98 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: what updates?,she doesn't any update,what jokes?,the invicible jet?,that's the only joke someone could make,but the invisible jet idea can work better if they know how to use it,there's nothing lame about her,if you find her so lame why are you here?,you are in the wrong forum,this is for people that like wonder woman.

#99 Posted by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: It's all good, I didn't realize right away that's where the hang-up was

#100 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

For movies, the first thing they will do is to update the silly costume of Wonder Woman which in current comics, looks like that of a stripper. I can tell you more about all the silly stuff in Wonder Woman when your heart is ready for the truth about how the general public views silly super heroes. Many of dc's super heroes have silly elements bec. many started in the golden age when comics were for children. Marvel super heroes were invented much later in the silver age when teens were reading comics so Marvel super heroes have less of the silly elements. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were working in romance comics before they created the Marvel super heroes and they carried some of their romance comics skills in doing the Marvel super heroes which tend to translate better to movies for teens.

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