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    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8808 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    Wonder Woman movie director leave

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    Archizooom

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    #51  Edited By Archizooom

    @outside_85 said:

    I am pretty sure Cassandra captured him and tortured him into being compliant, and then simply had him shaved for some reason. Dunno about the helmet. But regarding his strength, in some versions of the classical myth the Cretan Bull whom the queen fell in love with was actually Zeus in disguise. If that was the case here, the Minotaur would have been a demigod of the same 'rank' as Diana and imbued with powers from Zeus.

    I thought so too but then I noticed he didn't have human hands in issue 0 which could just be an oversight, however post-surgery minotaur is hairless in some areas, his fur is brown and he's a lot stronger than before. I think perhaps Azzarello had something planned for the Minotaur that he couldn't bring to fruition, maybe Cassandra found the body Zeus shed before reincarnating and attached the Minotaurs head onto it lol I mean the finale felt kind of rushed, I think maybe Azz was banking on having an annual

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    Outside_85

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    @outside_85 said:

    I am pretty sure Cassandra captured him and tortured him into being compliant, and then simply had him shaved for some reason. Dunno about the helmet. But regarding his strength, in some versions of the classical myth the Cretan Bull whom the queen fell in love with was actually Zeus in disguise. If that was the case here, the Minotaur would have been a demigod of the same 'rank' as Diana and imbued with powers from Zeus.

    I thought so too but then I noticed he didn't have human hands in issue 0 which could just be an oversight, however post-surgery minotaur is hairless in some areas, his fur is brown and he's a lot stronger than before. I think perhaps Azzarello had something planned for the Minotaur that he couldn't bring to fruition, maybe Cassandra found the body Zeus shed before reincarnating and attached the Minotaurs head onto it lol I mean the finale felt kind of rushed, I think maybe Azz was banking on having an annual

    I doubt they wanted an annual, since they skipped on all the other chances where they could have had one, and from what Azzarello and Chiang said during interviews, the story didn't change very much compared to how they pitched it to DC.

    My guess is that it is the Zero issue thats the fly in the oinment, because Azzarello originally didn't want to do that issue, but eventually came up with something. He knew the Minotaur was going to appear futher down the line, and he knew he was going to kill Ares, so he came up with the story about Diana's relationship with Ares and the encounter with the Minotaur, which provided quite a bit of emotional weight to later issues.

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    Archizooom

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    #54  Edited By Archizooom

    I doubt they wanted an annual, since they skipped on all the other chances where they could have had one, and from what Azzarello and Chiang said during interviews, the story didn't change very much compared to how they pitched it to DC.

    My guess is that it is the Zero issue thats the fly in the oinment, because Azzarello originally didn't want to do that issue, but eventually came up with something. He knew the Minotaur was going to appear futher down the line, and he knew he was going to kill Ares, so he came up with the story about Diana's relationship with Ares and the encounter with the Minotaur, which provided quite a bit of emotional weight to later issues.

    Well the ending came off a bit flat after such an obscenely long wait, expectations were through the roof. They could've used an annual to wrap it up, if you ask me. And though attention to detail is apparently demodé, a bit more of it wouldn't have gone amiss. The Minotaur deserved more character development

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    Outside_85

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    Well the ending came off a bit flat after such an obscenely long wait, expectations were through the roof. They could've used an annual to wrap it up, if you ask me. And though attention to detail is apparently demodé, a bit more of it wouldn't have gone amiss. The Minotaur deserved more character development

    Well, thats easy for us to say, but how exactly do you properly develop a non-speaking henchman that only runs around a punches things?

    As for the ending... well yes, I agree that it ended a bit too sudden. But on the plus side, the left the buisness of Hippolyta, the Amazons and Manazons completely open for others to decide on... we are just unfortunate the Finchs has gone their way, with Hippolyta returning to clay being the only oddity.

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    dshipp17

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    #56  Edited By dshipp17

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    Seems like the editors have been writing the Wonder Woman comic book since Gail Simone left, and the trend is only becoming more pronounced; I've notice a lot of common patterns, irrespective of the writer, since Simone left; although we have a new writer, the Finch(es) run is not that much different from the end of the Azzarello run; only the first issue seemed different. So, this Director wanted to make her own script, couldn't, than decided to leave. The editors should only insist on about 1% of a script or comic be revised so that the writer or director can have their own move or comic book. I don't think Marvel is suffering from the same problem; perhaps even other characters at DC are not suffering this same problem (e.g. I notice the gradual progression in the World's Finest comic book in the way Power Girl's costume has gotten better or back to what we're accustomed to seeing for Power Girl). Wonder Woman really needs an editor to behave like the one who was over Wonder Woman during the Messner-Loebs's and Marston's runs. I'm finding that I'm enjoying the Wonder Woman comic less and less now, since I notice this clear pattern, and this editor's taste is clearly not my taste for a Wonder Woman comic; the issues even extended over into the Superman/Wonder Woman book, soon after Charles Soule had written a comic that I really liked; I notice that a Wonder Woman comic was matching my tastes was never seen again after issue 5, I believe.

    DC wants WW to have an acclaimed and successful movie. So they will stay away from the critically panned messner-loebs era.

    Those are people giving an opinion more than 15 years later and who have gotten into a herd mentality about people recommending the Perez run as a jump on point for Wonder Woman; the people who liked Messner-Loebs run are probably all gone and lost their patience with how DC has been handling Wonder Woman, since each successive writer has slighted Messner-Loebs' run in some way; to point you into something more associated with peoples' real opinion, more people liked the Retro 90s comic by Messner-Loebs than the other Retro comics; no doubt, Messner-Loebs fans flocked back. In reality, I've actually read the most complaints about the Wonder Woman comics over the past 3 years than I'd ever read/heard about the Wonder Woman comics, even though it's supposedly critically acclaimed, although I've only been spotting complaints since April 2009.

    loebs-messner was never an acclaimed era for WW. And it was not her most supported era by fans either.

    Sometimes, people let the best opportunities go by. His run got a lot of support at the time and immediately after wards.

    loebs-messner wasn't an acclaimed era. I lived it so i know very well that it wasn't as supported as you make it out to be.

    I don't disagree with you, but I believe the same can be said for the Perez run; my point is that his run is probably looking better, if you view it from hindsight, even though I'm sure I would have enjoyed his run, if I were reading his comic at the time. I lived through that era too, I just simply wasn't aware of any Wonder Woman comic books at the time; I just found out about a decade later that I enjoyed the Messner-Loebs run better than any other run except Marston's, while reading through each run; at the time I was reviewing past runs, Rucka's run was just being formed; because subsequent runs were not looking to be as good as Marston's run, I skipped most of them, although I sampled each run; I didn't like the idea of Wonder Tot, because I wasn't looking to get into anything meant for children. I went completely through Perez's run and noticed that Wonder Woman was getting victories too easily, although I really loved the bizarre stuff Perez came up with; they really suited Wonder Woman, but it got spoiled when she got victories too easily; I wanted to see things like bondage and sticky situations for Wonder Woman to climb out; I did go completely through Wonder Woman's powerless run, and, of course, I went completely through Messner-Loebs's run; I skipped through the Hippolyta as Wonder Woman stuff in Byrne's run, although I enjoyed the parts of his run that I read, except, again, she got easy victories. I admit, in terms of creativity, Perez was really good, he just avoided putting Wonder Woman in sticky situations. I liked Rucka's run more in hindsight; I wanted him to further develop the interaction between Wonder Woman and Ferdinand, and I liked that he had plans for Dr. Psycho working with Veronica Cale, but he messed up by taking it from that and diving heavily into Greek Mythology; additionally, I didn't like him bringing another woman in between Wonder Woman and Ferdinand, and it would have been good to see how they got connected with each other. I wish Gail Simone would have stayed with the Grendel subplot or that group from Messner-Loebs's Space Pirate arc a lot longer, but I think she was struggling with editorial, causing her to be unable to close plot lines smoothly; one flaw about the Messner-Loebs's run for me was his decision to leave the Space Pirate story arc so soon and his slip up with giving Wonder Woman an easy victory while leaving that story arc. JMS/Hester left Dr. Psycho too soon and the run was too focused on blood and gore.

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    Archizooom

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    Well, thats easy for us to say, but how exactly do you properly develop a non-speaking henchman that only runs around a punches things?

    As for the ending... well yes, I agree that it ended a bit too sudden. But on the plus side, the left the buisness of Hippolyta, the Amazons and Manazons completely open for others to decide on... we are just unfortunate the Finchs has gone their way, with Hippolyta returning to clay being the only oddity.

    He came out of nowhere looking completely different, many times stronger and wearing a mask that blocked bullets that Wonder Woman couldn't deflect with her bracelets. That sort of raises questions, a 2 or 3 page flashback following his death would've been nice I think

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    dshipp17

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    #59  Edited By dshipp17

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17: Perez and Ruka runs were acclaimed at the time they came out and are stil acclaimed today. The same can't be said for messner-loebs era. Even though you can always find good things in that era too.

    Perez and Ruka didn't give her easy victories. She struggled with Ares(whom she couldn't beat),Cheetah,Shim-Tar,Gods. When she was facing top tiers in her league she was not winning easily.

    I see it the other way around: I'm finding things about the Perez and Rucka's runs to like; again, we're getting a skewed view of things, because DC took the approach to cater to people who have a taste for the Perez and Rucka's runs, while driving away fans who would like the Marston and Messner-Loebs's runs. What I consider getting through sticky situations and struggling are demonstrated in the Marston's and Messner-Loebs's runs; nothing resembled those situations in the Perez and Rucka runs, that I can recall; I don't think she's a worthy character to be seen as only having equals in the supernatural; not just her, but any DC superhero; in Marston's and Messner-Loebs's runs, she was put in situations by mortals, as it should be.

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    Outside_85

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    He came out of nowhere looking completely different, many times stronger and wearing a mask that blocked bullets that Wonder Woman couldn't deflect with her bracelets. That sort of raises questions, a 2 or 3 page flashback following his death would've been nice I think

    I am not so sure about him being stronger than he once was, the only example of his strength was that he headbutted a wall.

    As for blocking Eros' bullets, I think maybe we should be looking at the fact that it was bullets from Eros' love gun and not a conventional weapon. Like DIana took a bullet in the heart and didn't die. It may have penetrated her bracelets because the bullet forces the target to fall in love, the Minotaur however has never known love, so it might be it's it's nature thats allowed it to overcome it.

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    dshipp17

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    #62  Edited By dshipp17

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17: Perez and Ruka runs were acclaimed at the time they came out and are stil acclaimed today. The same can't be said for messner-loebs era. Even though you can always find good things in that era too.

    Perez and Ruka didn't give her easy victories. She struggled with Ares(whom she couldn't beat),Cheetah,Shim-Tar,Gods. When she was facing top tiers in her league she was not winning easily.

    I see it the other way around: I'm finding things about the Perez and Rucka's runs to like; again, we're getting a skewed view of things, because DC took the approach to cater to people who have a taste for the Perez and Rucka's runs, while driving away fans who would like the Marston and Messner-Loebs's runs. What I consider getting through sticky situations and struggling are demonstrated in the Marston's and Messner-Loebs's runs; nothing resembled those situations in the Perez and Rucka runs, that I can recall; I don't think she's a worthy character to be seen as only having equals in the supernatural; not just her, but any DC superhero; in Marston's and Messner-Loebs's runs, she was put in situations by mortals, as it should be.

    In Marston run She was performing feats such as moving islands and the moon. The biggest threat in Marston run were gods and super powered beings. And Cheetah only when she got a magic tool to boost herself t super power level. It was in Marston run where it stated she has no limits in her power. She can become more powerful and more powerful as she keeps training and fighting. Perez kept that part of her character intact like most of the basics of the character. Only super powered beings can be a threat to her physically. And that is logical which is why in Marston run most of the time humans had to use magical things or other tactics to fight her since they couldn't stop her in a physical fight. Even in comics a degree of logic in the context of the fights(in this case fights that involving a super being like WW)is needed.

    That's ok that the mortals used magical things and other tactics to fight Wonder Woman; that's just what I liked and a perfect ground to begin introducing Dr. Psycho as her arch nemesis. I don't remember anywhere in Marston's run where it was stated that her powers had no limits; yes, her powers could improve with additional training but that does not mean that her powers would have no limits; that's another aspect of Marston's run that I liked. Although she moved an island inside an issue, I don't think she moved the moon inside an issue. The issues that you pointed out that I refer to used plot devices for Wonder Woman that I liked that need to come back and make a modern day Marston interpretation of Wonder Woman.

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    Archizooom

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    I am not so sure about him being stronger than he once was, the only example of his strength was that he headbutted a wall.

    As for blocking Eros' bullets, I think maybe we should be looking at the fact that it was bullets from Eros' love gun and not a conventional weapon. Like DIana took a bullet in the heart and didn't die. It may have penetrated her bracelets because the bullet forces the target to fall in love, the Minotaur however has never known love, so it might be it's it's nature thats allowed it to overcome it.

    I could've sworn that Eros said his bullets were all-penetrable but I must've dreamed it up. I think yours is a plausible explanation :)

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    Muffin_Sangria

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    @brunnhilde said:

    Well the ending came off a bit flat after such an obscenely long wait, expectations were through the roof. They could've used an annual to wrap it up, if you ask me. And though attention to detail is apparently demodé, a bit more of it wouldn't have gone amiss. The Minotaur deserved more character development

    Well, thats easy for us to say, but how exactly do you properly develop a non-speaking henchman that only runs around a punches things?

    As for the ending... well yes, I agree that it ended a bit too sudden. But on the plus side, the left the buisness of Hippolyta, the Amazons and Manazons completely open for others to decide on... we are just unfortunate the Finchs has gone their way, with Hippolyta returning to clay being the only oddity.

    I think he was depicted alright but my issue is the way Diana treated the minotaur in the end. She showed him mercy the first time which was nice, but in the end when he had been robbed of his free will, and obviously even more deserving of mercy Diana just treated him like he was nothing but an evil monster. There was one theory I read before the final issue came out that I think would have been much better. Have the minotaur break free of the other villain's control, and actually be the one to deliver the final blow against First Born. Making Diana's first act of mercy being what saved the day.

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    Outside_85

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    I think he was depicted alright but my issue is the way Diana treated the minotaur in the end. She showed him mercy the first time which was nice, but in the end when he had been robbed of his free will, and obviously even more deserving of mercy Diana just treated him like he was nothing but an evil monster. There was one theory I read before the final issue came out that I think would have been much better. Have the minotaur break free of the other villain's control, and actually be the one to deliver the final blow against First Born. Making Diana's first act of mercy being what saved the day.

    I think you misread it, Diana didn't recognize him, changed as he was, before the helmet was broken off. The Minotaur clearly recognized her however, hence why we had all those closeup's and moments of hesitations whenever he was supposed to engage her.

    And in the end, he did break free... and the First Born killed him for it, while Diana was too wasted to save him, but the act did kick her back into gear, because she saw him before he died.

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