Wonder Woman Forum and Freedom Of Speech

#1 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

Why has a discussion of mine been locked?

I am getting a bit fed up with this site and how sensative people get. Apparently I´m not allowed to quote someone and point out discrepancies on a position that alot of people have. Apparently pointing out inconsistencies in an argument is insulting someone. You guys really need to look up the word insult. I donate to this site anually, cause I like it as an open community of discussion. Its fair to lock a discussion if you think I´m insulting someone, but atleast talk to me first and let me defend what I´ve said.

For the record, I would never intentionally try and insult or bully or do anything like that to anyone on this site. A discussion or debate is all I tried to spark off. Nothing else.

Freedom of speech is a very important thing, it really is.

#2 Posted by SNascimento (441 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I'm not sure what happened.

#3 Posted by Saren (25890 posts) - - Show Bio

.........you cannot make a thread called "Are some Azzarello WW fanboys just trolls?", and then mention a user by name and go on to rant about his opinion, making it more than clear by implication that you are calling him a troll publicly, and then express surprise when said thread is deleted.

Really, half the people on the internet who complain about their freedom of speech being infringed upon have no idea what freedom of speech actually comprises. It's not just "say whatever you want, it's all good".

Also, what freedom of speech? This is a moderated internet forum with a guideline of what you can and cannot say; a guideline you agreed to abide by when you joined the site. By definition, you have no freedom of speech because the guideline you agreed to lays limitations on your speech. And one of the limitations in that guideline is that you cannot launch personal attacks on users.

Moderator
#4 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: @citizenbane:

.........you cannot make a thread called "Are some Azzarello WW fanboys just trolls?", and then mention a user by name and go on to rant about his opinion, making it more than clear by implication that you are calling him a troll publicly, and then express surprise when said thread is deleted.

Really, half the people on the internet who complain about their freedom of speech being infringed upon have no idea what freedom of speech actually comprises. It's not just "say whatever you want, it's all good".

Also, what freedom of speech? This is a moderated internet forum with a guideline of what you can and cannot say; a guideline you agreed to abide by when you joined the site. By definition, you have no freedom of speech because the guideline you agreed to lays limitations on your speech. And one of the limitations in that guideline is that you cannot launch personal attacks on users.

Maybe I don´t understand the concept of "troll" but I just meant that when Azz fans pretend to not know why changing a much "beloved characters mythology" is a problem, when clearly if it was done to a character they previously loved they would get upset. I meant in that scenario then, whether they know it or not they are trolling. Purposely trying to piss off older WW fans. I wasn´t calling him or such users a troll in general, I meant they are inadvertently trolling when they do that. For me that is not an insult. If troll means something more than that, I didn´t know.

By the way my post was like a paragraph long as was in no way a rant. As for the freedom of speech, my point is I broke no rules of the sight, and if we were to take score, Lvenger has often been alot more insulting to me than I have to him. Even goin so far as calling me writing a WW script delusional. Why? I enjoy writing, I´m not doing it cause I think its going to be made. I don´t flag his comments, and get all upset about it, I just am glad that there´s a place where different people can voice their own opinions. In that sense within reason, as long as a comment isn´t bullying or racist, or homophobic, or sexist, I think it ought to be allowed to be expressed.

Its no problem to me if this site decides to block a discussion of mine. I´m not overly upset about it, I have far too full a life for such things to bother me, however, I still think it is wrong and I will say so.

As for the concept of the freedom of speech, I´m very aware of what it means. I did not mean the socio-political concept, I meant the basic idea of people should be able to say what they want. You don´t need to be a scholar of John Stewart Mill, to be able to say basically people ought to have the right to say what they wish. Having said that though, I got a first in philosophy, specifically social and political thought, so I´m pretty wellversed in such concepts.

#5 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe try saying some things in a more acceptable way. Try and try. We all have to consider the feelings of our neighbors since we don't live alone on top of a mountain.

#6 Posted by Saren (25890 posts) - - Show Bio

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that you can be fairly active on the internet and still be oblivious to the meaning of the word "troll", but whatever. Google it. You seriously think anyone who prefers Azzarello's Wonder Woman is a troll? And that they like Azzarello's Wonder Woman not for the plot, characterization or art, but for the sole purpose of "trying to piss off older WW fans"? Maybe I don't understand what you're saying, I hope I don't and there's some other explanation that will be provided posthaste, but if I do understand what you're saying, you've got bigger problems than not understanding an internet term.

I wasn´t calling him or such users a troll in general

Rubbish. You made a thread with a title that said some Azzarello WW fans are trolls, and then went on to provide Lvenger as an example of aforementioned category of Azzarello WW fans. Of course you were calling him a troll.

I meant they are inadvertently trolling when they do that. For me that is not an insult. If troll means something more than that, I didn´t know.

"You like Azzarello's Wonder Woman? TROLL!"

Seems like a calm, balanced thing to say.

As for the freedom of speech, my point is I broke no rules of the sight

Yes, you did. Making a personal attack on a user, specifically calling that user out by name and saying "here's an example of a troll", is a violation of the site's rules.

and if we were to take score, Lvenger has often been alot more insulting to me than I have to him. Even goin so far as calling me writing a WW script delusional. Why? I enjoy writing, I´m not doing it cause I think its going to be made. I don´t flag his comments,

That's EXACTLY what you're supposed to do. If you think Lvenger has been trolling you, flag his comments, contact a mod, do something like that and wait for it to be resolved one way or the other. Making a thread just to call him a troll is, well, trolling.

I just am glad that there´s a place where different people can voice their own opinions. In that sense within reason, as long as a comment isn´t bullying or racist, or homophobic, or sexist, I think it ought to be allowed to be expressed.

Your thread made a personal attack on a user. Would you agree that insulting a user in your thread's OP on the basis of grievances held over previous discussions is unacceptable behavior within reason? Not to mention petty, if we're being frank?

As for the concept of the freedom of speech, I´m very aware of what it means. I did not mean the socio-political concept, I meant the basic idea of people should be able to say what they want.

Neither did I, and that is simply the convenient half of freedom of speech that people like to hear.

You don´t need to be a scholar of John Stewart Mill, to be able to say basically people ought to have the right to say what they wish.

Fun fact: when early 17th century political documents began sketching out the concept of freedom of speech, they made clear note of "abuses of this freedom". And while Mill made allowances for the falsity of information and the intrinsic value of opinions and yada yada yada, he probably didn't mean you could badmouth people in public for no good reason whatsoever.

Having said that though, I got a first in philosophy, specifically social and political thought, so I´m pretty wellversed in such concepts.

Clearly! That was my first impression!

Moderator
#7 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: thanks 4 the advice. i actually have no problem with Lvenger, I just happened to see a comment he made on a superman forum, and it seemed a bit contradictory considering the conversations we´ve had. I see lots of Azz fans do the same. One I had a discussed with told me he sees no reason why WW fans are upset about the changes to her origin, the next thing I know he writes an article pissed off that Lois was being played by redheaded woman. Forget how talented she is, and that at least his favorite hero is getting a movie, he just was fixated on her hair. Thats what I´m talking about, if they can have that kind of feeling over such changes, they should at least be able to understand why WW fans are upset by Azzerrelo.

#8 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Comicvine forums are quite free and seems to be as free as the dc forums where I came from. I also have had a little experience with stricter forums such as old pro-Lois Smallville tv forums and pro-lowcarb diabetes forums. In Comicvine, I have heard from podcasts that some employees like Azzarello WW and some employees don't like Azzarello WW so Comicvine is probably well balanced in regards to Azzarello WW.

#9 Edited by TDK_1997 (14983 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't call people trolls you know.It's not an insult if you just say that the guys that like Azzarello's Wonder Woman are trolls but when you mention names it gets bad.

#10 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane:

Um, when did I say being an Azzerrelo WW fan makes you a troll?

1. I didn´t say that and I think you know that.

2. If you think John Stewart Mill, The Utilatrians, or the federalists, would have thought that stating in a public forum someone might be a troll or contradicting themselves constitutes the abuse of freedom of speech, I don´t think you understand the concept.

3. Please let me know if there is anything more to the concept of troll. I just thought it meant purposely trying to upset a certain group. That is all I know of the idea. Yes I use the web but i´m also nearly 30, and I´m not so up to date on current lingo.

4. One thing I´m not and never will be is a grass, thats just not cool. :) On a serious note, I don´t report people to higher ups never have, never will, I just try and settle things with a person myself if I get upset by something they say.

5. I think your post is quite insulting to me, and I really don´t see the need. I have no hard feelings toward anyone on this site. I don´t go to sleep think "Oh that damn Lvenger!" or "Those damn WW Azz fans!" It was mere coincidence that I saw that post of Lvengers, and it reminded me of something that had been bothering me for sometime.

That is it, plain and simple. Believe it or not. I really do have to give up this forum a while.

By the way this is troll on wikipedia

"In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtrl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3] The noun troll may also refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

#11 Edited by Saren (25890 posts) - - Show Bio

"I just meant that when Azz fans pretend to not know why changing a much "beloved characters mythology" is a problem, when clearly if it was done to a character they previously loved they would get upset. I meant in that scenario then, whether they know it or not they are trolling. Purposely trying to piss off older WW fans. I wasn´t calling him or such users a troll in general, I meant they are inadvertently trolling when they do that."

1. I didn´t say that and I think you know that.

You did say that; I know precisely what you said; and given that you wrote it, you know it better than I do.

2. If you think John Stewart Mill, The Utilatrians, or the federalists, would have thought that stating in a public forum someone might be a troll or contradicting themselves constitutes the abuse of freedom of speech, I don´t think you understand the concept.

I...don't even...

3. Please let me know if there is anything more to the concept of troll. I just thought it meant purposely trying to upset a certain group. That is all I know of the idea. Yes I use the web but i´m also nearly 30, and I´m not so up to date on current lingo.

Someone who posts with the sole malevolent intention of harassment, deliberate provocation, disruption, insulting other posters, etc. It almost always has a negative connotation.

4. One thing I´m not and never will be is a grass, thats just not cool. :) On a serious note, I don´t report people to higher ups never have, never will, I just try and settle things with a person myself if I get upset by something they say.

That's exactly what you're not supposed to do, and if your thread gets locked because you just try and settle things with a person yourself by calling them a troll, don't complain about it. Read the rules.

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5. I think your post is quite insulting to me, and I really don´t see the need. I have no hard feelings toward anyone on this site. I don´t go to sleep think "Oh that damn Lvenger!" or "Those damn WW Azz fans!" It was mere coincidence that I saw that post of Lvengers, and it reminded me of something that had been bothering me for sometime.

Then flag my post and wait for a resolution. I'm fine with that.

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#12 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

5. I think your post is quite insulting to me, and I really don´t see the need. I have no hard feelings toward anyone on this site. I don´t go to sleep think "Oh that damn Lvenger!" or "Those damn WW Azz fans!" It was mere coincidence that I saw that post of Lvengers, and it reminded me of something that had been bothering me for sometime.

Then flag my post and wait for a resolution. I'm fine with that.

Nah, I only do that when someone is racist, homophobic, sexist, bullying, etc. I try and let everyone have there say even if I disagree. This site might have such rules, but I ain´t following along. Sorry just ain´t happening.

Mainly because nothing anyone says on these sites really ever means a hell of a lot to me. Getting angry over something someone says on the internet on a site dedicated to fictional characters is to me really petty.

Also it seems to me, saying that someone in a particular scernario is teasing or prodding certain people, which is what I meant by troll is not an insult.

If I use the verb- he is trolling in the continuous tense i.e. in a partciular scenario a fanboy is trolling, that is not an insult thats just like saying, this person is teasing that person. Some Azz fans are teasing or purposely teasing or trying to annoy older WW fans. That is it.

An insult is if I call someone an idiot or half wit or something along those lines. Really guys I think some of you are getting bent out of shape about nothing.

#13 Posted by tupiaz (2214 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: On the internet there is no freedom of speech you have the freedom of speech the site alouds you to have.

#14 Posted by Teerack (7048 posts) - - Show Bio

Freedom of speech doesn't apply on the internet. When you registered you checked off "I agree" and forfeited your rights on the site. The terms and agreements are a contract you know :P

#15 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack:

@teerack said:

Freedom of speech doesn't apply on the internet. When you registered you checked off "I agree" and forfeited your rights on the site. The terms and agreements are a contract you know :P

Tis true, freedom of speech will always be an oxymoron . :)

#16 Posted by Wboy (442 posts) - - Show Bio

^eww...

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