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    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8719 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    Wonder Woman earth one spoilers

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    darknightspideyfanboy

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    http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/12/27/massive-spoilers-for-wonder-woman-earth-one-by-grant-morrison-and-yanick-paquette-hit-the-net-as-does-a-very-negative-reaction/

    I hope Morrison knows what he's doing cause wow

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    deathfalcon182

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    @darknightspideyfanboy: he does. The reviewer had a preconceived notion about how Wonder Woman should be depicted. She wants to read yet another Warrior princess story told by Azzarello. She doesn't care if this depiction is a unapologetic and sexually liberated, glorifying and celebrated look at WW mythology involving heavy themes of Lesbianism, Love and BDSM. According to her it should not be allowed to exist because it doesn't fit her agenda.

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    entropy_aegis

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    #3  Edited By entropy_aegis

    @deathfalcon182: Funny thing is many WW fans dont like Azz either,the character is shackled by unfortunate baggage and superficial standards that she has to uphold for some reason. The reviewer on one hand is saying that the book isn't disturbing enough for the themes it touches but in the same breath is claiming it's not appropriate for children,hilarious.

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    CaptainMarvel4Ever

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    Ugh.... SO TEMPTING!

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    entropy_aegis

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    @entropy_aegis: WW fans are never satisfied. Azzarello run was the best she's had in ages, arguably the best.

    Agreed,that reviewer should be sued to the ground,DC should take legal action immediately.

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    GrandWonder

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    #7  Edited By GrandWonder

    @ready_4_madness:

    I love Azzarello's Wonder Woman. I love the horror theme. I love the art.

    What I hate is how the gods appearance are presented. Rucka's Olympians in modern attire is the best depiction of the gods I have ever seen. New 52 Apollo and Artemis are ugly, Hades looks like a Hellraiser child, Poseidon looks like a monster and I don't want to talk about Hermes. Only Hera's look is acceptable for my taste. I find it odd that most who like the "new look" Olympians are not really fans of her.

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    Outside_85

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    @ready_4_madness:

    I love Azzarello's Wonder Woman. I love the horror theme. I love the art.

    What I hate is how the gods appearance are presented. Rucka's Olympians in modern attire is the best depiction of the gods I have ever seen. New 52 Apollo and Artemis are ugly, Hades looks like a Hellraiser child, Poseidon looks like a monster and I don't want to talk about Hermes. Only Hera's look is acceptable for my taste. I find it odd that most who like the "new look" Olympians are not really fans of her.

    Funny how things that aren't human doesn't tend to look human.

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    GrandWonder

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    @outside_85:

    So you like the look of the New 52 Olympians? I'm not going to hold it against you. It's just people have different taste which must be respected.

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    Archizooom

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    #10  Edited By Archizooom

    I knew this book was an illustrated wet dream, under the guise of women's sexual freedom. I'll reserve my judgment until after I've read the book in April but I think anyone can see that hot 10/10 lesbians making out with each other in a manner you'd normally see in a brothel in Westeros, is not a serious, sincere depiction of homosexual relationships between women, it's fetichistic soft porn, plain and simple. And of course, the bathing suit was Beth's idea…sorry but Morrison's ain't fooling anybody

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    Squalleon

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    @deathfalcon182: Funny thing is many WW fans dont like Azz either,the character is shackled by unfortunate baggage and superficial standards that she has to uphold for some reason. The reviewer on one hand is saying that the book isn't disturbing enough for the themes it touches but in the same breath is claiming it's not appropriate for children,hilarious.

    To be fair because I read the review, she said she didn't have a problem with the themes but with how the themes are presented.

    For example, Morrison sexualizes rape. That's the reviewers problem. That rape is "beautiful" here. And it also mentioned the plot hole of how can bondage being an Amazon thing when they were humiliated and raped in cages and chains. Other than that, the reviewer mentions the overabundance of cliches (she is right) and how weird the book is, which i disagree because for a WW fan everything make sense.

    Anyway, the review has points but it is an overreaction and it loses some of its right. Personally I will give it a shot and I won't trust an out of context overreaction for if I will buy it or not, but I get where the reviewer is coming from.

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    Lvenger

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    I'm more interesting in knowing how this one woman got an early copy of Wonder Woman Earth One than her overreaction on some of the sexual freedoms, bondage and open sexuality Morrison seems to depict in his story since it's actually quite close to William Marston's original vision for the character. Which is what Morrison said he was aiming for in telling his version of the Wonder Woman origin story. I'd rather wait and see what credible comic reviewers and comic fans think of Wonder Woman Earth One rather than one early and random review.

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    entropy_aegis

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    @entropy_aegis said:

    @deathfalcon182: Funny thing is many WW fans dont like Azz either,the character is shackled by unfortunate baggage and superficial standards that she has to uphold for some reason. The reviewer on one hand is saying that the book isn't disturbing enough for the themes it touches but in the same breath is claiming it's not appropriate for children,hilarious.

    To be fair because I read the review, she said she didn't have a problem with the themes but with how the themes are presented.

    For example, Morrison sexualizes rape. That's the reviewers problem. That rape is "beautiful" here. And it also mentioned the plot hole of how can bondage being an Amazon thing when they were humiliated and raped in cages and chains. Other than that, the reviewer mentions the overabundance of cliches (she is right) and how weird the book is, which i disagree because for a WW fan everything make sense.

    Anyway, the review has points but it is an overreaction and it loses some of its right. Personally I will give it a shot and I won't trust an out of context overreaction for if I will buy it or not, but I get where the reviewer is coming from.

    Well if it's really that bad then Morrison is about to take a big hit lol.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @squalleon: First off, it wasn't even a rape. Yanick Paquette cleared it up on Twitter. Also the Greek greek god is said to have done much worse to Amazons in Perez's run. And it's said he did horrible things to all sorts of persons including amputees, boy childrens and in some case new borns but that's besides the point.

    Second, that woman DOES have problems with said themes in WW comic. She says that Morrison is eroticizing WW lore and that shouldn't be allowed in comments. Also she makes no conscious effort to clear up the fact that how Morrison should go about presenting the themes and give actual examples. I doubt she has actually consumed any fictional material about BDSM, woman dominant, orgy and unapologetic and glorifying look at women's sexuality. She just doesn't want to see this at all anywhere especially in a WW comic (anywhere part is bit hyperbole).

    Third, she's not well versed in WW lore. Beth Candy and fat stuff is throwback to Etta Candy's appearance, ray guns and Kangaroos are were also part of her mythos. Not only that she's misinterpreting everything it seems. Syeve Trevor giving example of black slavery does not make him a racial stereotype, he's educating Hippolyta about cruelty of man's world and how he can relate, how is Amazon Queen supposed to know that? And that's just one of the manyyyy panel she's venting about in her review, if one would call it that.

    Lastly that review is not even in legal boundaries, to me it seems a pitiful attempt at trying to censor the contents of the book. It's not even rated yet and review embargo hasn't been lifted. Yanick Paquette had something to say about it as well, I believe the message is for people judging and condemning the book based on one review https://twitter.com/YanickPaquette/status/681233151314784264

    I really hope nobody takes this review seriously, not until you either see it with your own eyes or hear more word about it from trusted reviewers. Because few out of context panels and poorly thought out and written spoilerfest does not capture the imagination and vision of Grant Morrison.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @entropy_aegis: doubt it. Morrison never really gave a f**k about general perception of him. He openly admitted to taking drugs and dressing up as a transsexual. He doesn't really care and I doubt he has anything to worry about now.

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    Squalleon

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    @squalleon said:

    To be fair because I read the review, she said she didn't have a problem with the themes but with how the themes are presented.

    For example, Morrison sexualizes rape. That's the reviewers problem. That rape is "beautiful" here. And it also mentioned the plot hole of how can bondage being an Amazon thing when they were humiliated and raped in cages and chains. Other than that, the reviewer mentions the overabundance of cliches (she is right) and how weird the book is, which i disagree because for a WW fan everything make sense.

    Anyway, the review has points but it is an overreaction and it loses some of its right. Personally I will give it a shot and I won't trust an out of context overreaction for if I will buy it or not, but I get where the reviewer is coming from.

    Well if it's really that bad then Morrison is about to take a big hit lol.

    Ι really doubt it :P

    @squalleon: First off, it wasn't even a rape. Yanick Paquette cleared it up on Twitter. Also the Greek greek god is said to have done much worse to Amazons in Perez's run. And it's said he did horrible things to all sorts of persons including amputees, boy childrens and in some case new borns but that's besides the point.

    Second, that woman DOES have problems with said themes in WW comic. She says that Morrison is eroticizing WW lore and that shouldn't be allowed in comments. Also she makes no conscious effort to clear up the fact that how Morrison should go about presenting the themes and give actual examples. I doubt she has actually consumed any fictional material about BDSM, woman dominant, orgy and unapologetic and glorifying look at women's sexuality. She just doesn't want to see this at all anywhere especially in a WW comic (anywhere part is bit hyperbole).

    Third, she's not well versed in WW lore. Beth Candy and fat stuff is throwback to Etta Candy's appearance, ray guns and Kangaroos are were also part of her mythos. Not only that she's misinterpreting everything it seems. Syeve Trevor giving example of black slavery does not make him a racial stereotype, he's educating Hippolyta about cruelty of man's world and how he can relate, how is Amazon Queen supposed to know that? And that's just one of the manyyyy panel she's venting about in her review, if one would call it that.

    Lastly that review is not even in legal boundaries, to me it seems a pitiful attempt at trying to censor the contents of the book. It's not even rated yet and review embargo hasn't been lifted. Yanick Paquette had something to say about it as well, I believe the message is for people judging and condemning the book based on one review https://twitter.com/YanickPaquette/status/681233151314784264

    I really hope nobody takes this review seriously, not until you either see it with your own eyes or hear more word about it from trusted reviewers. Because few out of context panels and poorly thought out and written spoilerfest does not capture the imagination and vision of Grant Morrison.

    I don't disagree with all of this. You explain things I know. But you miss the point of the reviewer. She doesn't say the rape scene is new but even in the Perez run, it looked like rape, not a sex fantasy. That's where the reviewer was coming from.But she is right in many areas. And yes in a two-hundred page comic, the black guy mentions slavery, in a question that doesn't fit, the fat girl is a glutton and comedy relief, there is a perfect girl who has to be a bitch. She is at least right about that.

    I am not trying to pick sides because the truth is clearly somewhere in the middle.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @squalleon: I could see myself agreeing about "implied rape" scene that never comes to fruition but no way am I agreeing about archetype characters being stereotypes and nothing more. Also the fact that Morrison takes rape very seriously, according to him in his 30 year long career he has never had any character raped (well intentionally, Batman was unintentional and he retconned it), I doubt he'll break that streak now, especially in a book that's supposed to be about celebration of Women's sexuality.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @lvenger: She got a free copy from net galley for reviewing purposes, review embargo wasn't lifted and she went ahead and put out the review anyway.

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    silent_bomber

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    Wow, maybe a Wonder Woman comic will actually sell for once

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    entropy_aegis

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    Well other reviewers are not anywhere near as critical as this one, the real guilty party is Bleeding Cool,the girl I can understand though posting spoilers is unethical but it's Bleeding Cool that ran with it.

    @entropy_aegis: doubt it. Morrison never really gave a f**k about general perception of him. He openly admitted to taking drugs and dressing up as a transsexual. He doesn't really care and I doubt he has anything to worry about now.

    Eh...

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    Squalleon

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    Well other reviewers are not anywhere near as critical as this one, the real guilty party is Bleeding Cool,the girl I can understand though posting spoilers is unethical but it's Bleeding Cool that ran with it.

    @deathfalcon182 said:

    @entropy_aegis: doubt it. Morrison never really gave a f**k about general perception of him. He openly admitted to taking drugs and dressing up as a transsexual. He doesn't really care and I doubt he has anything to worry about now.

    Eh...

    BC loves its controversy. They always escalated things.

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    deathfalcon182

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    Squalleon

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    @squalleon: I could see myself agreeing about "implied rape" scene that never comes to fruition but no way am I agreeing about archetype characters being stereotypes and nothing more. Also the fact that Morrison takes rape very seriously, according to him in his 30 year long career he has never had any character raped (well intentionally, Batman was unintentional and he retconned it), I doubt he'll break that streak now, especially in a book that's supposed to be about celebration of Women's sexuality.

    Funny Morrison uses them only as archetypes.

    Batman was never raped by Talia, Morrison retconned it into rape. True story. I love Morrison (favorite writer) but he is an attention w#or@ he always was.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @squalleon: which he later admitted was a mistake and retconned it. And I disagree about your statement about him, that's your perception all right.

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    entropy_aegis

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    @squalleon: I just went through her review,her points could be legit but she's presenting them not as actual criticism but more as what she doesn't want to see or what doesn't make sense to her.

    For instance the purple ray gun and kangaroos,what's her problem with them again?

    If the whole comic is filled with Amazons banging each other for no reason then yes it would be pandering to fanboys but if it's just one shot to highlight their culture with minimum fuss then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

    Hercules is a bad guy,he's supposed to give the bad guy speech,again this is just non sense and it's why writers are afraid of writing rapist villains.

    Similarly she says she doesn't want to see these characters captured and humiliated by the villain,um why again? it's ok for Batman to be on the receiving end of everything Bane inflicted on him but if Hercules does the same his own way it suddenly becomes a problem?

    The rape isn't beautiful,Hippy is in chains and crying,shes helpless,looks like an accurate picture of atrocity.

    I can keep going on but you get the gist.

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    Lvenger

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    @deathfalcon182: I see, thanks for clarifying that for me. On Morrison retconning Talia raping Batman, I don't think he did actually because the New 52 Batman Inc volume has another flashback to the night Damian got made and it's implied again that Talia drugged Batman into having sex with her.

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    entropy_aegis

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    Who knows though,every one can take a hit once a while and this may well be Morrisons.

    @lvenger said:

    @deathfalcon182: I see, thanks for clarifying that for me. On Morrison retconning Talia raping Batman, I don't think he did actually because the New 52 Batman Inc volume has another flashback to the night Damian got made and it's implied again that Talia drugged Batman into having sex with her.

    @deathfalcon182 said:

    @squalleon: I could see myself agreeing about "implied rape" scene that never comes to fruition but no way am I agreeing about archetype characters being stereotypes and nothing more. Also the fact that Morrison takes rape very seriously, according to him in his 30 year long career he has never had any character raped (well intentionally, Batman was unintentional and he retconned it), I doubt he'll break that streak now, especially in a book that's supposed to be about celebration of Women's sexuality.

    Funny Morrison uses them only as archetypes.

    Batman was never raped by Talia, Morrison retconned it into rape. True story. I love Morrison (favorite writer) but he is an attention w#or@ he always was.

    @squalleon: which he later admitted was a mistake and retconned it. And I disagree about your statement about him, that's your perception all right.

    The Talia thing has been blown out of proportion,Morrison mistaked it with a story where Talia married a drugged/unconscious Bruce against his will and stripped naked (presumably to have sex) while he was regaining consciousness. Talia apologists like to present her as some sweet,caring,loving woman which is hilariously far from correct. She was turned in to a remorseless psycho by Rucka who always manages to dodge criticism for it.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @lvenger: Bruce seemed to have consensual sex I think because he wasn't in a drugged state when he was talking to her, dialogues seemed to imply Talia may have mixed something in his drinks. Could be anything.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @entropy_aegis: if by hit you mean gan backlash, this wouldn't be the first time nor the last.

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    Squalleon

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    #30  Edited By Squalleon

    @entropy_aegis said:

    @squalleon: I just went through her review,her points could be legit but she's presenting them not as actual criticism but more as what she doesn't want to see or what doesn't make sense to her.

    For instance the purple ray gun and kangaroos,what's her problem with them again?

    If the whole comic is filled with Amazons banging each other for no reason then yes it would be pandering to fanboys but if it's just one shot to highlight their culture with minimum fuss then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

    Hercules is a bad guy,he's supposed to give the bad guy speech,again this is just non sense and it's why writers are afraid of writing rapist villains.

    Similarly she says she doesn't want to see these characters captured and humiliated by the villain,um why again? it's ok for Batman to be on the receiving end of everything Bane inflicted on him but if Hercules does the same his own way it suddenly becomes a problem?

    The rape isn't beautiful,Hippy is in chains and crying,shes helpless,looks like an accurate picture of atrocity.

    I can keep going on but you get the gist.

    Ι agree. Her rage makes her lose her right.

    That's why I said some of her problems aren't problems for a fan who knows a thing or two.

    Her problem wasn't Herc but Hippolyta weeping beautifully. She wanted the rape to looks ugly. And it looks very timid. And I agree with her on that.

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    entropy_aegis

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    @entropy_aegis: if by hit you mean gan backlash, this wouldn't be the first time nor the last.

    These books are meant for the casual crowd,they arent your average every day one shots to be absorbed by the average fans and passerby casuals. If the majority ends up having similar sentiments as this woman then Morrison could very well find himself out of work,it may not be likely but it's not impossible either.

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    Lvenger

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    @entropy_aegis: Believe me I know about the Talia apologists. There was this thread on the Talia boards posting a letter some Talia roleplayer had 'written' to Grant Morrison and she describes Talia almost exactly like you're doing in jest. Caring, sweet and loving are not the words one would use to describe Talia at all. She's hardly a sugar queen of niceness,

    @deathfalcon182 That would be my point, the dialogue implies Talia used something to drug Bruce into not being able to resist her advances. I think that's what happens in both volumes of Batman Inc when Damian's conception comes up.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @entropy_aegis: Morrison finding himself out of work. Kek. You do realize he does it for his own pleasure of writing Superhero comics right? He can just as easily release 10 more creator owned, fans love him and he's EIC of heavy metal. Besides DC values Morrison a lot, so much so his work hasn't been edited since Seven Soldiers days and like I said, Morrison doesn't really care. He's one of the few actually fearless writer in the industry.

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    entropy_aegis

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    @lvenger said:

    @entropy_aegis: Believe me I know about the Talia apologists. There was this thread on the Talia boards posting a letter some Talia roleplayer had 'written' to Grant Morrison and she describes Talia almost exactly like you're doing in jest. Caring, sweet and loving are not the words one would use to describe Talia at all. She's hardly a sugar queen of niceness,

    @deathfalcon182 That would be my point, the dialogue implies Talia used something to drug Bruce into not being able to resist her advances. I think that's what happens in both volumes of Batman Inc when Damian's conception comes up.

    You should look at Bane of the Demon,she was plotting the end of the world and her only regret was ending up with Bane instead of Bruce... sweet,loving my foot. She's a stalker,a passive one in her classic incarnation and a psychotic one now.

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    entropy_aegis

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    @entropy_aegis: Morrison finding himself out of work. Kek. You do realize he does it for his own pleasure of writing Superhero comics right? He can just as easily release 10 more creator owned, fans love him and he's EIC of heavy metal. Besides DC values Morrison a lot, so much so his work hasn't been edited since Seven Soldiers days and like I said, Morrison doesn't really care. He's one of the few actually fearless writer in the industry.

    That I agree on but dont underestimate the power of SJWs'.

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    Archizooom

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    Ι agree. Her rage makes her lose her right.

    That's why I said some of her problems aren't problems for a fan who knows a thing or two.

    Her problem wasn't Herc but Hippolyta weeping beautifully. She wanted the rape to looks ugly. And it looks very timid. And I agree with her on that.

    That's just the way it came off in Paquette's pretty and pretty risqué style. The problem is the overall aesthetic of the novel, it depicts female sexuality through the proverbial male-gaze, Morrison was more preoccupied with expunging phallic objects off Paradise Island...

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    righteous300

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    So is the whole book just one big rape scene? Is the book as a whole good and that one scene messed it up or what?

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    Squalleon

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    @squalleon: which he later admitted was a mistake and retconned it. And I disagree about your statement about him, that's your perception all right.

    Morrison was bashing Alan Moore in the 90s, the first chance he got. Just to create controversy, its something Morrison admitted. Again, I love the guy and he loves being the center of attention. Its not something bad, he is a showman.

    @deathfalcon182 said:

    @entropy_aegis: Morrison finding himself out of work. Kek. You do realize he does it for his own pleasure of writing Superhero comics right? He can just as easily release 10 more creator owned, fans love him and he's EIC of heavy metal. Besides DC values Morrison a lot, so much so his work hasn't been edited since Seven Soldiers days and like I said, Morrison doesn't really care. He's one of the few actually fearless writer in the industry.

    That I agree on but dont underestimate the power of SJWs'.

    I really don't believe WW E1 will create as much controversy as people make it out to be. And I don't think DC will touch Morrison, the guys ideas has been one of DC's hidden aces.

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    silent_bomber

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    @agent41 said:

    @silent_bomber: Well Wonder Woman has had successful runs before, so the "for once" part is unnecessary.

    I'm not sure that's really true to be honest, there's definitely a Marv Wolfman quote somewhere that states that Wonder Woman comics have never really made any money and that she survived mostly due to her merchandising and licensing potential.

    I don't really know what DC's break even point is though, I know its higher than Indie comics (Indie comics are often creator owned, and to offset this the creative Team does not get much of a fixed rate, so if the comic sells poorly they pretty much don't get paid), I guess break-even for DC might be somewhere in the range of 20,000 for a $3 comic and 15,000 for a $4 comic but who knows.

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    kiba

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    @brunnhilde: I got to agree with you. I'll withhold judgment until it's out but as it looks right now this seems like a total wet dream Morrison was having without any idea why certain themes were present to begin with. I can't believe she handed Steve a collar. I thought the bondage under her creator was a commentary on how women allow men to treat them as the "weaker" sex and need to free themselves in order to regain their strength and worth which is equal to a man's.

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    Archizooom

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    #44  Edited By Archizooom

    @kiba: On the face of it, that's what this looks like. I didn't think the bondage was gonna be so literal and I don't necessarily have a problem with it. However, according to that reviewer, there's no good reason given as to why the Amazons took to doing bdsm, on the contrary, therefore it's more like fan service, they do it just because it's hot, "hot lesbian supermodels chaining each other up, woo-hoo". But we'll have to wait and see how Morrison tackled the theme of "loving submission"

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    deactivated-59dfd33ed3601

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    At least this book will be a wet dream for the male readers.

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    silent_bomber

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    @agent41 said:

    @silent_bomber: Well that is not true. Her comic in the 40s was selling very well and because of that she was one of 3 characters to have solo titles during that time. The Perez, Rucka and Simone runs also sold well.

    Yeah, I think your 1940s comment is correct, I guess this would be before Marv Wolfman's time though.

    The other runs you mention probably didn't make that much profit for DC, I think Rucka and Simone were only selling ~30,000 mostly.

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    deathfalcon182

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    @squalleon: yeah sure, you make the context of it make it sound extremely thin though. Here's the actual quote by Morrison :

    “Drivel” was a monthly, scurrilous, humour, gossip, and opinion column in “Speakeasy”, the leading British comics magazine in 1990 when the piece in question was written. I had a brief from my editor Stuart Greene and I mostly stuck to it, except when I used “Drivel” to indulge in William Burroughs-style “cut-up” experiments. My fee for the column went to Blue Cross, so all that manufactured bile wasn’t wasted and helped make the lives of some rescue animals a little more comfortable on a monthly basis. Otherwise, the persona I adopted for “Drivel” was an exaggerated caricature partly inspired by the Morrissey interviews I enjoyed reading. The whole point of the column – which was one of the magazine’s most popular features, incidentally – was to take the piss out of the comics scene at the time.

    Alan Moore was only one of the many, many targets of “Drivel” and he came off lightly in comparison to some others – with whom I am still on friendly terms. The main target of the satire in “Drivel” was myself and if anyone’s reputation has suffered as a result of people in other lands and different times presenting as indictable some daft words written in jest, I’d suggest it’s been mine."

    Link of the article

    http://www.comicsbeat.com/the-strange-case-of-grant-morrison-and-alan-moore-as-told-by-grant-morrison/

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    Squalleon

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    @deathfalcon182: They are certainly not on friendly terms :P This article is quite old. In more recent posts both Moore and Morrison has shown a grudge towards each other. I distinctively remember a post of Morrison bashing Moore who bashed Geoff Johns.

    Weird stuff.

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    deathfalcon182

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    #50  Edited By deathfalcon182

    @squalleon: well Moore bashes a lot of people, he literally has bashed the medium that made him prolific and called fans among other things "emotionally subnormal" and "manchilds."

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