wonder woman 23 thoughts?

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#1 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

yes i read early ty comixology and omg it happen my prediction as well many others were right WONDER WOMAN GOD OF WAR

#2 Edited by JuliusTakalua (255 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude! I was OMFGing the whole time. BTW is it just me or are teh books getting shorter and shorter? it was barely like 10pgs...

First Born still lives though. ANd WW is the God of WAR HOLY SHIT!!! *EDIT-I wrote "not" which was stupid..

The only thing that was kind of a bump was Orion being the poster boy for new 52 whipping boy... I'm a big Thor and Orion fan and Orion just got his ass beaten again which makes me sad. At least Thor's kicking ass in Marvel :\

But back on point, shit's gonna go down and I wonder how that will affect the current JL run since WW is happening during the 5 year gap. So.... is she still teh god of war in JL? does that justify WW's "pis" moment on manhandling Stranger?

strange huh, we're seeing some awesome feats from WW now. which was cool as a fan but also a bit disappointing on story... I felt there could have been more.

(And SPOILER) It was kinda sad to see Ares die like that....

But i guess there's some rage in how my boy Orion was handled so I'm making a thread so that any big Orion fans can rage hard on that somewhere else

But nonetheless, awesome issue and can't wait to see what'll happen next

#3 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

@juliustakalua: lol i want more answer as well god dam you dc for making us wait 2 month lol hopefully the villain month issue on first born or cheetah well give us answer but great issue as well

#4 Edited by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

How do you kill off her main foe???!!!!!!

#5 Posted by Outside_85 (7094 posts) - - Show Bio

@jointron33 said:

How do you kill off her main foe???!!!!!!

Well it's not like Ares had been much of an enemy to the New 52 Wonder Woman. It's quite obvious however that Apollo is going to use the FB later on.

#6 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

@jointron33: no one stay dead forever in comic remember this

#7 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#8 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@jointron33: no one stay dead forever in comic remember this

Yeah, and since he's a god it won't even take much suspension of disbelief to bring him back.

I've been critical of Azzarello for a while now (pretty much since issue 11), but this issue was great and got things moving forward in a big way... just in time to bring them to a screeching halt for Villains Month. But still, it was great to see the story moving and for something significant to happen - not sure the payoff warranted a whole year of build-up, but at least we finally got some payoff, and it was pretty damned good at that.

My one complaint would be that the whole Zora storyline feels like it should have been resolved about ten issues ago. I know there's still the question of her baby and all, but for the longest time she's just kind of been following Wonder Woman around without doing anything. What's the long-term plan? Why isn't anyone talking about that? I feel like Azzarello's keeping her (and Hera, for that matter) around for a reason, but he isn't doing anything even remotely interesting with them in the meantime.

But Wonder Woman was VERY interesting this issue, and that was awesome to see. Oh, and the cover was just breathtaking.

#9 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: both wonder woman and ares had a good moment i think they knew it was the only to save baby if Diana becomes the child of prophecy or let the 1st born gain more power than he already has

#10 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: both wonder woman and ares had a good moment i think they knew it was the only to save baby if Diana becomes the child of prophecy or let the 1st born gain more power than he already has

Yeah, I get all that. It's the logistics of Wonder Woman basically having Hera, Zola, and Zeke just trailing along behind her all the time that I find strange. It didn't bother me as much in this issue because, dear god, this issue was pretty awesome, but it's been a trend for all of the past ten issues or so. I'd just like to know what it is that Wonder Woman and Zola see as the end. What are they trying to accomplish? Where are they trying to go? As a new mother, these kinds of questions should be very much on Zola's mind, but instead she just keeps walking around with Wonder Woman with no sense of direction (which isn't the same as saying that the story lacks direction - as of issue 23 is most certainly does).

#11 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: o okay i get what you mean you just want more reason for them to be around b!%ch part to that were going to have wait especially with forever evil next month WW issue 24 coming in October but i have the patient for it kinda feel bad for those who dont also i think hera is really easy to figure out i think she there to redeem her self in some way she started to show a little bit of that in issue 23 with her trying to save zola

#12 Posted by JuliusTakalua (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: WW and crew bud, Zola and Hera are part of the crew. They haven't done much but... really who cares lol. They're tagging along and they're relatively new characters anyway... I hope Zola's child does something later. Like go do something with Orion when he grows up, become a New God. Take the throne away from Apollo. Become a new superhero... do something, I mean there were two big arcs concerning Zola and then Zeke. Hera's just there because of plot. Not that she's big but I'm saying that because of PLOT, she's now stuck in the crew lol. She also changed from being a bitch to a human character. She'll definitely become Hera the goddess again, but I'm not so sure how that will turn out. Hope it does WW some good.

#13 Posted by RustyRoy (9231 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow from Goddess of Truth to God of War and people think its a good thing. Anyways Orion is the true Dog of War.

#14 Posted by Hastalavista (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: as hell says, she will make an interesting God of War. War is one of the things that humans can't avoid, not at least currently. This may indicates that under WW, war will be different from what it used to be. She can be a God of War that calls for peace and mutual understanding. As a god her direct confrontation with human's (aka men's world) concept of the war will be interesting.

--------

WW #23 is wonderful! I enjoyed the art and the story. It proves that New52 WW is NOT cold at all. She's passionate, kind, and forgiving. Consider this in your JL comic Johns! (I am giving up hope in JL now...)

Also I can't hold back my imagination... Hera should forget about Zeus and raise Zeke together with Zola! They should make a dramatic family. Zeke, as other Zeus' children, will have great power and can be hard to control as a little kid. They will have chase him around the universe and make an lol space opera comic.

And I am kind of shipping WW/Orion now.

#15 Posted by RustyRoy (9231 posts) - - Show Bio

@hastalavista: It will actually be interesting if this storyline expands to the whole Earth and involves JL/JLA.

#16 Posted by Bezza (2131 posts) - - Show Bio

I see this comic got a perfect ten from the reviewer at IGN!

Online
#17 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza said:

I see this comic got a perfect ten from the reviewer at IGN!

Yeah, and deservedly so. I've been critical of Azzarello for a little while now, but he just rose in my esteem quite a bit. This issue was pretty amazing.

#18 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:the action was poor,that's has beeb the problem with azzarello since the beginnin,when it comes to actio,he can't deliver.

#19 Posted by Bezza (2131 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna buy a copy of It today!

Online
#20 Posted by drgnx (3512 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a very nice wrap-up to a very long Arc.

#21 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: yup pretty interesting to c how azzarello well handle this

@bezza: hope you enjoy it

#22 Posted by Bezza (2131 posts) - - Show Bio

Picked up a copy of this yesterday with, belatedly Superman Unchained ep 1. Wow what a crackerjack issue. First Wonder Woman comic I've ever bought actually. Always been a big fan but never read them back in the 70s when she was on her TV programme. Anyway, getting to see Diana take off her bracelets again is epic. We also get an idea of how strong she is in this guise relative to that other powerhouse Orion. Pretty darn strong I'd say.

Online
#23 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:the action was poor,that's has beeb the problem with azzarello since the beginnin,when it comes to actio,he can't deliver.

Are you saying the action was poor in issue 23? Because I thought the action was pretty strong here - there were several fights that all fit well within the framework of the story, and there was a whole lot of carnage by the end.

#24 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@dmessmer:the action was poor,that's has beeb the problem with azzarello since the beginnin,when it comes to actio,he can't deliver.

Are you saying the action was poor in issue 23? Because I thought the action was pretty strong here - there were several fights that all fit well within the framework of the story, and there was a whole lot of carnage by the end.

the action in issue 23 was poor,she didn't even put up a fight against the first born and the god mode was easily defeated,for the final fight of an that lasted 2 years,the action wasn't good enough.

#25 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I'm not sure how you can say she didn't put up a fight when she ran him through with a spear that all but killed him. Everyone's tastes are different, I realize, but for me it isn't important that we get panel after panel of characters beating on each other. The combat was suggestive, which is all it needed to be to get the character development across, which is what is more compelling in the long run.

Her god mode was defeated because, as Ares pointed out, it reduced her to nothing but brute force and thus robbed her of her greatest assets - strategy and compassion. I wasn't a fan of the whole "god mode" thing to begin with for just that reason - it seems so out of character for Wonder Woman. I was glad to see Azzarello take it in the direction he did. With her strategy and compassion back in place she was able to defeat Firstborn and become the god of war, which both strike me as pretty impressive feats.

#26 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:when i think of good action i think about her fight with shim tar,her fight with cheetah on savage moon,her fight with superman on the witch is back,her fight with genocide,her fight with captain marvel,her fight with powergirl,her fight with supergirl,her fight with superman in the sacrifice arc,her fight with lxion,etc,that is true action for me,she didn't do much against the first born and for the final battle of an arc the action was poor.

#27 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Okay, but what is it that those fights have that this one lacks, in your opinion? I'm not sure what you mean by "she didn't put up a fight" - after all, she attacks him first and eventually runs him through with a spear.

#28 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@gokuwarrior: Okay, but what is it that those fights have that this one lacks, in your opinion? I'm not sure what you mean by "she didn't put up a fight" - after all, she attacks him first and eventually runs him through with a spear.

she couldn't beat him in a fight one on one and i was expecxting more action in a one on one fight where she would come on top,after almost 2 years with this arc,i was expectin more for the final fight.

#29 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Running him through with a spear while he is distracted fighting Ares... this is the action fans anticipated?

Was this not the equivelant of stabbing him in the back?

And action beneath WW.

And now as god of war, WW is even further removed from her assumed mission since the writer has failed miserably to tell the reader what that mission is. Everyone, including the "new" fan base cling to the pre new 52 established mission of bringing peace to man's world.

And the baby is still not safe or resolved...

#30 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

Running him through with a spear while he is distracted fighting Ares... this is the action fans anticipated?

Was this not the equivelant of stabbing him in the back?

And action beneath WW.

And now as god of war, WW is even further removed from her assumed mission since the writer has failed miserably to tell the reader what that mission is. Everyone, including the "new" fan base cling to the pre new 52 established mission of bringing peace to man's world.

And the baby is still not safe or resolved...

excactly,stabbing him while he was busy with ares?,that isn't part of wonder woman's character,and defeating the first born by stabbing him is lame when he is supposed to be so powerful and god of war?,since when she represents war?,the run is a mess.

#31 Posted by Outside_85 (7094 posts) - - Show Bio

Running him through with a spear while he is distracted fighting Ares... this is the action fans anticipated?

Was this not the equivelant of stabbing him in the back?

And action beneath WW.

And now as god of war, WW is even further removed from her assumed mission since the writer has failed miserably to tell the reader what that mission is. Everyone, including the "new" fan base cling to the pre new 52 established mission of bringing peace to man's world.

And the baby is still not safe or resolved...

Story isn't over either, only this chapter.

#32 Posted by divingfalcon713 (275 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved the student/teacher moments with Ares and Wonder Woman. This whole issue was very emotional.

#33 Posted by dshipp17 (552 posts) - - Show Bio

This was a great issue and First Born was a bad man. A bit stronger than Diana without the bracelets. This issue moved along and finally finished one drawn out story arc. Since Hades only came for Ares, apparently Hera still lives despite how bad it looks; First Born could have snapped her neck.

#34 Edited by dshipp17 (552 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@dmessmer said:

@gokuwarrior: Okay, but what is it that those fights have that this one lacks, in your opinion? I'm not sure what you mean by "she didn't put up a fight" - after all, she attacks him first and eventually runs him through with a spear.

she couldn't beat him in a fight one on one and i was expecxting more action in a one on one fight where she would come on top,after almost 2 years with this arc,i was expectin more for the final fight.

Despite what you'd like reality to be, Diana is not going to beat every thing in comic book existence in a fight; in various threads, this has been carefully explained to you over and over again. While Diana has her advantages, no good writer is going to suspend her opponent's abilities to let Diana be seen as being victorious.

#35 Edited by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@dmessmer said:

@gokuwarrior: Okay, but what is it that those fights have that this one lacks, in your opinion? I'm not sure what you mean by "she didn't put up a fight" - after all, she attacks him first and eventually runs him through with a spear.

she couldn't beat him in a fight one on one and i was expecxting more action in a one on one fight where she would come on top,after almost 2 years with this arc,i was expectin more for the final fight.

Despite what you'd like reality to be, Diana is not going to beat every thing in comic book existence in a fight; in various threads, this has been carefully explained to you over and over again. While Diana has her advantages, no good writer is going to suspend her opponent's abilities to let Diana be seen as being victorious.

Sweet bejesus, I actually agree with @dshipp17 without reservation! Yeah, the whole point was that by taking off her bracelets and entering "god mode" she becomes nothing but her strength, and is thus beatable. It's when she's in control and thinking clearly that she can defeat those who might be physically stronger than her. I, for one, am fine with the notion that a being born from two gods is stronger than Wonder Woman, and the fact that she still defeated him in the end strikes me as quite a feat (and @gokuwarrior aren't you the one that always wants her to perform more feats?).

It's one thing to be critical of Azzarello's storytelling (I've done so in the past, though I loved this issue), but it's another to just blindly expect Wonder Woman to win every fight. If she's unbeatable then there's no chance for tension, and the story will be boring.

#36 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@dmessmer said:

@gokuwarrior: Okay, but what is it that those fights have that this one lacks, in your opinion? I'm not sure what you mean by "she didn't put up a fight" - after all, she attacks him first and eventually runs him through with a spear.

she couldn't beat him in a fight one on one and i was expecxting more action in a one on one fight where she would come on top,after almost 2 years with this arc,i was expectin more for the final fight.

Despite what you'd like reality to be, Diana is not going to beat every thing in comic book existence in a fight; in various threads, this has been carefully explained to you over and over again. While Diana has her advantages, no good writer is going to suspend her opponent's abilities to let Diana be seen as being victorious.

despite your stupid and annoying logic,the facts are facts,diana has had much better fights in her catalog,writters don't need to water down anyone if they know how to writte good action,they should give her good opponents and make her fight for te win,work for it,i didn't see any of that,it was a lame quick fight,totally lame for a final battle.

#37 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:the facts are facts,diana has had much better fights in her catalog,writters don't need to water down anyone if they know how to writte good action,they should give her good opponents and make her fight for te win,work for it,i didn't see any of that,it was a lame quick fight,totally lame for a final battle.

#38 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow!

How many times has Superman and Batman triumphantly defeated an opponent by spearing another being in the back? Then claiming it was a strategic act of an honored warrior? Please tell me.

This is great storytelling and writing with one of the most iconic characters in comics history?

Some say this is WW at her best.

Oh my... who will this great heroine stabbed in the back next to claim the title of greatest hero in the dark and twisted new 52?

This character has no virtue, honor or integrity.

This is not nor will it ever be Wonder Woman.

#39 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri: srry it is WW just because your unhappy with how her character is being portray doesn't mean she is not

#40 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri: srry it is WW just because your unhappy with how her character is being portray doesn't mean she is not

it's not the way that WW has been portayed most of her career,so it's a problem,there are certain standard in every character,we know that there are things batman or superman would never do,the same with wonder woman.

#41 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow!

How many times has Superman and Batman triumphantly defeated an opponent by spearing another being in the back? Then claiming it was a strategic act of an honored warrior? Please tell me.

This is great storytelling and writing with one of the most iconic characters in comics history?

Some say this is WW at her best.

Oh my... who will this great heroine stabbed in the back next to claim the title of greatest hero in the dark and twisted new 52?

This character has no virtue, honor or integrity.

This is not nor will it ever be Wonder Woman.

very well said.

#42 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

But she didn't stab Firstborn in the back, she stabbed Ares in the back, sacrificing him to defeat a stronger opponent as per the tenants of war. One of the things that I like about Wonder Woman as opposed to Batman and Superman is that she will do what needs to be done. She doesn't enjoy killing or even seek out violence (hence her attack on Firstborn was out of character and led to her initial failure), but she doesn't adhere to some arbitrary code. Firstborn was going to kill them all and she had a chance to stop that. She had no choice but to sacrifice Ares to do it, and she made the decision she had to make - and Ares approved. Maybe we didn't see hundreds of punches being thrown, but the motivation behind all of the action was clear, which is more important from a storytelling angle than a bunch of splash pages of people beating on each other.

#43 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:you can't tell me that was an extreme situation with no other choise,and we didn't get a true fight,that's the problem,in the past wonder woman always fought hard for the win,she worked for it when the time to fight had come,that's very important from a storytelling angle too,we follow the story and everything comes to a final battle,it has to be a good fight,good action,a highlight moment of the story,an d we didn't get that,it was short and without vitality,i want a good story,but when the action arrives,i also want good action,and i didn't get it.

#44 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, she had fought him twice at that point and been beaten both times. She had to do something immediately or Firstborn was going to kill War and then move on to Hera and Zeke. Knowing he'd beaten her even when she was at her most physically powerful, she did what she had to do when she had the chance to do it. I don't have a problem with that.

As far as the action is concerned, I think that's just a matter of taste. I thought the issue did a great job of showing character development and making the fighting that did take place have consequences for the that development. You're right that we didn't see tons of back and forth and lots of punches and things blowing up, and if that's what you like I can see where this issue was a disappointment. But, as I said, it's a matter of taste. I don't fault Azzarello for making the choices he did in that regard (and I'm not a blind devotee of Azzarello - I've been very critical of him in the past).

I guess what I'm ultimately saying is that it's fine to not like the issue - there's no way any writer can please everyone - but Azzarello's take on the character was clear and consistent (something I can't say for all of his run) and didn't make a mockery of her history (making the Amazons into murders is a different story, and I still don't like that he did that). He also set up a very intriguing premise - Wonder Woman as the Goddess of War. I think that makes it a good book regardless of the total count of punches thrown.

#45 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:that's the problem,a final battle should be epic,the battle that ends an arc has to be special,it's the climac of the arc,it has to feel that way,more action,a more developed fight was needed to give it that special effect.

#46 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

WW had no choice but to kill War/Ares because First Born was going to kill War/Ares?

This does not make sense to an intelligent mind. Since you are gonna die anyway, let me use you as a means to an end by killing you in the process. This makes me a great hero?

A WONDER is an amazing feat that awes not a desperate cowardly act.

I say this is not Wonder Woman not for dislike of the story. The action betrays the nature of the character and makes her a typical ruthless warrior. Nothing special.

If her own ally is not safe from her, who is? This is not a version of the character that garners trust. If she later says she values life, we will know it is a lie. Sacrificing one to save the many is a line a true hero does not cross.

#47 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: i know right batman and superman would nvr kill.. oh wait they did kill in the golden age where they use to kill a lot

@sinisteri: i see there no point of discussing this further with you so let just agree to disagree Ty for your thoughts

#48 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@darknightspideyfanboy:

You are welcome.

Has everyone forgotten that WW is symbol of truth not war, and that war contradicts truth by nature?

#49 Edited by prettywonderboy (24 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow!

How many times has Superman and Batman triumphantly defeated an opponent by spearing another being in the back? Then claiming it was a strategic act of an honored warrior? Please tell me.

This is great storytelling and writing with one of the most iconic characters in comics history?

Some say this is WW at her best.

Oh my... who will this great heroine stabbed in the back next to claim the title of greatest hero in the dark and twisted new 52?

This character has no virtue, honor or integrity.

This is not nor will it ever be Wonder Woman.

I think you dont understand what happened, pal. WW was forced to kill Ares/War before first born could do so. If FB was the one who killed Ares, then he becomes the God of War.. See the logic? Im not sure it was never her will to become a war goddess. If anything, i think she painstakingly took the burden of being the goddess of war and killing her teacher in the process.. And btw, i think this is something that ares would want since is she is his student.

Please analyze and think things through first before you start complaining. Clearly, some people dont know how to comprehend

#50 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@prettywonderboy: Exactly. She's taking on a massive burden that she doesn't really want (since she is a messenger for peace) in order to prevent Firstborn from gaining power. What could be more heroic than that? And, with the same spear thrust that she takes on that burden, she also defeats Firstborn. Sounds like quite the feat to me.

I'm intrigued by the notion of Wonder Woman as the Goddess of War. Maybe Azzarello will botch it and the next few issues will be terrible, but the premise is certainly interesting and the very notion that being the Goddess of War is contradictory to Wonder Woman's nature is what makes it compelling. Conflict is the foundation of good storytelling and having a pacifist take on the mantle of Goddess of War is about as conflicted as you can get.

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