Will DC make Wonder Woman more savage to gain more readers?

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#1 Posted by star notes (243 posts) - - Show Bio

In the back of JL#2 Steve Trevors reveals to Waller that Diana slit a child kidnappesr throat. She killed a MAN and Before any of you say that "Wonder Woman has killed before" yes she has killed enemies that pose a Big threat not normal criminals. Why would she have to kill a guy? Cannot she just subdue it like other Heroes do.

#2 Posted by BloodTalon (430 posts) - - Show Bio

@star notes: She should Kill more often she is an Amazon after all they are a warrior culture how do you think they handle crime on themyscira especially one committed by a man

#3 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

to quote the dc guys: "we're making everything edgier, darker. oohh.. and a lot more boob view. cuz thats what the readers want. in short, BATMAN WITH KNOCKERS!!!!"

#4 Posted by star notes (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@BloodTalon said:

@star notes: She should Kill more often she is an Amazon after all they are a warrior culture how do you think they handle crime on themyscira especially one committed by a man

The thing is it completely the opposite of her character she only kills when there's no other choice and if Wonder Woman cannot handle a normal criminal without killing them then shes no different from a police or a swat she supposed to be a Super Hero.

#5 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

DC always do this to Wonder Woman they always make her a savage or a man-hater.

#6 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

Same thing is being done to Superman.

#7 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64 said:

Same thing is being done to Superman.

What did Superman do?

#8 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Delete me: While Superman won't kill, he is no longer a boyscout and doesn't mind punching first and asking questions later.
#9 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

well its kind of what this "New 52" is meaning here. Going with how a character has been is kind of what they are trying to change.

And yeah like Primmaster said I don't think Superman is on the kill level yet but he's kind of the "3 warning shots in the face then I'll see what the situation is" ;p

#10 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64 said:

@Delete me: While Superman won't kill, he is no longer a boyscout and doesn't mind punching first and asking questions later.

At least he doesn't kill like Wonder Woman is doing killing common criminals is her new past time. I hope DC realize what are they doing with the supposed role models.

#11 Edited by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delete me said:

@Primmaster64 said:

@Delete me: While Superman won't kill, he is no longer a boyscout and doesn't mind punching first and asking questions later.

At least he doesn't kill like Wonder Woman is doing killing common criminals is her new past time. I hope DC realize what are they doing with the supposed role models.

the thing is I don't think they are trying to write these characters as role models as much anymore. That's kind of why people were complaining about Superman's character. Even though these first 2 issues haven't been spectacular I would still choose them over the whole "Grounded" arc.

#12 Posted by star notes (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz said:

well its kind of what this "New 52" is meaning here. Going with how a character has been is kind of what they are trying to change.

And yeah like Primmaster said I don't think Superman is on the kill level yet but he's kind of the "3 warning shots in the face then I'll see what the situation is" ;p

What the heck is DC trying to Marvelize their characters only with better stories.

#13 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@star notes said:

In the back of JL#2 Steve Trevors reveals to Waller that Diana slit a child kidnappesr throat. She killed a MAN and Before any of you say that "Wonder Woman has killed before" yes she has killed enemies that pose a Big threat not normal criminals. Why would she have to kill a guy? Cannot she just subdue it like other Heroes do.

What!!!?? I cant believe that she would do that. Wonder Woman is now the punisher of Dc.

#14 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@star notes said:

In the back of JL#2 Steve Trevors reveals to Waller that Diana slit a child kidnappesr throat. She killed a MAN and Before any of you say that "Wonder Woman has killed before" yes she has killed enemies that pose a Big threat not normal criminals. Why would she have to kill a guy? Cannot she just subdue it like other Heroes do.

Do you have a scan?
#15 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz said:

@Delete me said:

@Primmaster64 said:

@Delete me: While Superman won't kill, he is no longer a boyscout and doesn't mind punching first and asking questions later.

At least he doesn't kill like Wonder Woman is doing killing common criminals is her new past time. I hope DC realize what are they doing with the supposed role models.

the thing is I don't think they are trying to write these characters as role models as much anymore. That's kind of why people were complaining about Superman's character. Even though these first 2 issues haven't been spectacular I would still choose them over the whole "Grounded" arc.

Seems like their trying to be marvel.

#16 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kallarkz said:

well its kind of what this "New 52" is meaning here. Going with how a character has been is kind of what they are trying to change.

And yeah like Primmaster said I don't think Superman is on the kill level yet but he's kind of the "3 warning shots in the face then I'll see what the situation is" ;p

Hell, this DCnU Superman is still not as aggressive as the original GA Superman who did kill.
#17 Posted by Lvenger (18394 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64 said:

@star notes said:

In the back of JL#2 Steve Trevors reveals to Waller that Diana slit a child kidnappesr throat. She killed a MAN and Before any of you say that "Wonder Woman has killed before" yes she has killed enemies that pose a Big threat not normal criminals. Why would she have to kill a guy? Cannot she just subdue it like other Heroes do.

Do you have a scan?

I concur. This is something I want to see for myself. If WW is killing ordinarily criminals regularly, then this is disregarding the pacifistic, moral characteristics that Diana possessed pre Flashpoint which is a real shame. Diana is just a moral character as Superman and she shouldn't start killing people on an anti hero basis. Also in terms of Superman's marvelization, I'm not sure about that. I mean I'm glad he hasn't killed anyone so far but the thing is Superman is supposed to be the ultimate symbol for good and what is right so him being rougher on criminals is something I'm still tenuous about.

#18 Posted by star notes (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@Primmaster64 said:

@star notes said:

In the back of JL#2 Steve Trevors reveals to Waller that Diana slit a child kidnappesr throat. She killed a MAN and Before any of you say that "Wonder Woman has killed before" yes she has killed enemies that pose a Big threat not normal criminals. Why would she have to kill a guy? Cannot she just subdue it like other Heroes do.

Do you have a scan?

I concur. This is something I want to see for myself. If WW is killing ordinarily criminals regularly, then this is disregarding the pacifistic, moral characteristics that Diana possessed pre Flashpoint which is a real shame. Diana is just a moral character as Superman and she shouldn't start killing people on an anti hero basis. Also in terms of Superman's marvelization, I'm not sure about that. I mean I'm glad he hasn't killed anyone so far but the thing is Superman is supposed to be the ultimate symbol for good and what is right so him being rougher on criminals is something I'm still tenuous about.

I don't have a scanner but its in JL#2 its where Waller is debriefing Steve Trevor when Waller ask why did WW killed the kidnapper he said that WW did what she was trained to do. This also make me question that the Amazons are more savage.

#19 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64 said:

@Kallarkz said:

well its kind of what this "New 52" is meaning here. Going with how a character has been is kind of what they are trying to change.

And yeah like Primmaster said I don't think Superman is on the kill level yet but he's kind of the "3 warning shots in the face then I'll see what the situation is" ;p

Hell, this DCnU Superman is still not as aggressive as the original GA Superman who did kill.

Golden Age Superman kills?

#20 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Delete me: He did
#21 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64: Wow I learned something today.

#22 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Delete me:Not exactly killing, but you see what I mean
#23 Posted by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

Regarding the scan from about Wonder Woman, i have it so i'll upload it in a sec.

#24 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64 said:

@Delete me:Not exactly killing, but you see what I mean

His like Batman he threatens them.

#25 Edited by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio

WW had killed some of her enemies in the past although she was never a Punisher kind of Superhero. As for the Amazons, before everything else, they are warriors. They are trained to kill.

As for Superman, I am not still sure if I like his characterization. Mostly because DC hasn't settled in one yet. He is portrayed differently in JL, Action Comics and Superman.

#26 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior said:

Regarding the scan from about Wonder Woman, i have it so i'll upload it in a sec.

I want to see it.

#27 Posted by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio
Here ya go
#28 Edited by Lvenger (18394 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64: I haven't been able to find the scans for these but in Superman #1 I think he threatens a Washington lobbyist by leaping atop some high tension lines and almost steps on a telephone wire then purposely falls from a tall building to convince the lobbyist to talk. At least I think that's what happened.

#29 Posted by Lvenger (18394 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior: Thanks for the upload. Haven't read Justice League #2 yet but this isn't really spoiling anything is it? :P

#30 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior: Thanks

#31 Posted by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: No it doesn't, it's just a little extra that appears at the back of the book. It's supposed to be a teaser for people who want to learn a few spoiler free things about Wonder Woman before she's introduced in Justice League.

#32 Posted by BloodTalon (430 posts) - - Show Bio

@star notes said:

@BloodTalon said:

@star notes: She should Kill more often she is an Amazon after all they are a warrior culture how do you think they handle crime on themyscira especially one committed by a man

The thing is it completely the opposite of her character she only kills when there's no other choice and if Wonder Woman cannot handle a normal criminal without killing them then shes no different from a police or a swat she supposed to be a Super Hero.

well I am sorry that it does not jive with your perception of how a hero should act, but I am a big fan of the characters that have a more brutal out look on how to treat criminals.

I will also say that I have never bout a Wonder Woman book until the new 52 and I did not intend on getting it then either but it was a light week so I figured what the hell and I am glad I did because it is awesome

#33 Posted by star notes (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior said:

Here ya go

See this is the new WW more savage.

#34 Posted by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil_Dog: No Problem

I'd also like to chime in and say i actually like the new interpretation of Wonder Woman. It makes perfect sense that an Amazon would kill those they feel don't deserve to live. As long as she doesn't go around killing every villain and criminal i'll be fine.

#35 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lvenger: yep
#36 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior said:

@Evil_Dog: No Problem

I'd also like to chime in and say i actually like the new interpretation of Wonder Woman. It makes perfect sense that an Amazon would kill those they feel don't deserve to live. As long as she doesn't go around killing every villain and criminal i'll be fine.

I supposed your a new reader of Wonder Woman so you will never understand how we long time fans feel about this. Im glad that she sells.

#37 Posted by Lvenger (18394 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior: OK cool. Speaking of back up features, what's your view on the Captain Marvel back up that will be in Justice League at some point? Personally whilst it would be cool, I still believe Cap deserves his own series, at least a mini series as opposed to being a back up feature in DC's New 52 Universe.

#38 Posted by Lvenger (18394 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64: Ah excellent. Glad I can still remember some Superman facts.

#39 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64 said:

@Delete me: While Superman won't kill, he is no longer a boyscout and doesn't mind punching first and asking questions later.

dark and edgier, just like the 1990s

#40 Edited by star notes (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@BloodTalon said:

@star notes said:

@BloodTalon said:

@star notes: She should Kill more often she is an Amazon after all they are a warrior culture how do you think they handle crime on themyscira especially one committed by a man

The thing is it completely the opposite of her character she only kills when there's no other choice and if Wonder Woman cannot handle a normal criminal without killing them then shes no different from a police or a swat she supposed to be a Super Hero.

well I am sorry that it does not jive with your perception of how a hero should act, but I am a big fan of the characters that have a more brutal out look on how to treat criminals.

I will also say that I have never bout a Wonder Woman book until the new 52 and I did not intend on getting it then either but it was a light week so I figured what the hell and I am glad I did because it is awesome

Actually Diana have stopped suicide bombers without killing add that she has Aphrodite's love and compassion make her characterization bad Superheroes should only kill as a last resort.

#41 Posted by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: I definately think Cap deserves his own ongoing, which is why i was disappointed when i found out that Curse of Shazam would just be a back up feature. But since JL is a big seller, it at least means more people will be exposed to him, and if it goes well we might get an ongoing later on.

I'd rather have DC do what their doing now and build up a bigger fanbase for Cap before releasing a Shazam ongoing. Then just release an ongoing now and risk it being cancelled.

@Evil_Dog: Your right, i'm not a long time Wonder Woman fan so don't know exactly what your going through, but WW has killed before and honestly, i trust Geoff Johns and Brian Azzarello to treat her and her history with respect.

#42 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lvenger: :D
 
@difficlus
lol
#43 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior said:

@Lvenger: I definately think Cap deserves his own ongoing, which is why i was disappointed when i found out that Curse of Shazam would just be a back up feature. But since JL is a big seller, it at least means more people will be exposed to him, and if it goes well we might get an ongoing later on.

I'd rather have DC do what their doing now and build up a bigger fanbase for Cap before releasing a Shazam ongoing. Then just release an ongoing now and risk it being cancelled.

@Evil_Dog: Your right, i'm not a long time Wonder Woman fan so don't know exactly what your going through, but WW has killed before and honestly, i trust Geoff Johns and Brian Azzarello to treat her and her history with respect.

I'm not sure about that Geoff wrote a blood lusted WW in flashpoint and Azzarello change her 70yrs old origin and both of those 2 never reviewed the character. And yes Diana have killed Maxwell lord and Ares but both of those 2 killings are justified her killing a kidnapper in front of the children is not.

#44 Posted by Lvenger (18394 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior: I suppose you're right. I mean, Justice League is DC's top selling title so it would be a good ploy to expose readers to a character there first then spin out an ongoing from there.

#45 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil_Dog: Just let the story for now I bet the next writer after azz will change her origins like all the writers do. But WW being a savage amazon irks me.

#46 Edited by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil_Dog: Hmmm. I don't think you can count WW from flashpoint, since as you said she was bloodlusted. She thought she'd been betrayed by the man she loved and was then pushed and encouraged by her advisor's into a war. Everything within flashpoint made sense within the context of the flashpoint world. Plus it's too early to judge Azzarello's change as it may end up being better portrayed and written then the original.

Do you not find the killing of the child kidnapper justified becuase she killed him infront of kids? Or becuase she killed him full stop? Because within the comic book world i find it perfectly justified.

@Lvenger: Yeh that's the way i see it going. Although it's not like i'd say no to a ongoing straight of the bat :)

#47 Posted by Delete me (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior said:

@Evil_Dog: Hmmm. I don't think you can count WW from flashpoint, since as you said she was bloodlusted. She thought she'd been betrayed by the man she loved and was then pushed and encouraged by her advisor's into a war. Everything within flashpoint made sense within the context of the flashpoint world. Plus it's too early to judge Azzarello's change as it may end up being better portrayed and written then the original.

Do you not find the killing of the child kidnapper justified becuase she killed him infront of kids? Or becuase she killed him full stop? Because within the comic book world i find it perfectly justified.

@Lvenger: Yeh that's the way i see it going. Although it's not like i'd say no to a ongoing straight of the bat :)

I think what evil dog is pointing out it that why would she kill the guy why didn't she used her superspeed to the disarm and knockout the kidnapper.Imagine Superman, Batman, GL, and Flash in that scenario will they kill the guy, no but they will knock the guy out. But I understand this is a reboot and in order to sell they change her.

#48 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

That was 5 years ago i'm sure she's much more chilax now. But i think your all making the unverified asumption that WW just arbitrarely and vindictily slit this dudes throat, Trevor said he was gonna kill those kids so the way i see it he was already about to pull the triger mabey even applying pressure on the trigger when WW slit his throat maybe he was in the process of pulling the trigger and WW saw the easiest way to stop him was to toss her sword across the room killing him and saving those kids lifes

#49 Posted by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delete me: I can understand that sentiment and i admit if it was a character i'd followed for a long time, i would want writers to avoid changing them. But the Wonder Woman that Waller is learning about in the scan is one who has just left Paradise Island and only been in the world of men for a few months. So her killing makes sense considering the fact that Amazons wouldn't view killing men who they judge as being worthy of death as anything abnormal.

BlackArmor above probably has it right, and the Wonder Woman we see in the present isn't likely to go around killing any and all criminals she comes across. But for me at least, its nice to know that her amazon upbringing hasn't been ignored and that every now and again she may revert back to the deadly amazon that she is.

#50 Posted by MrDirector786 (43408 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually, having read through all the other posts in this thread, I guess it's okay that she's more like an Amazon but at the same time, I really hope that she only kills as a last resort and doesn't do it on a regular basis. Killing doesn't necessarily make a hero cool at all and I really hope that the writers get that.

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