Why the demigodess origin doesn't work for me

#1 Posted by Skewer (325 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no denying that Brian azzarello has made Wonder Woman more popular in recent years than she ever was before and its also pretty controversial among fans because of the changes made to her character. There are things about his run and I can see why it's popular and I can also see why it's unpopular among old fans. The most controversial change is making her a daughter of Zeus which means that she has been born from her mother being intimate with a man rather than being crafted from clay and given life by Hera answering her prayers. I am not that big a fan of Wonder Woman, but I do understand a bit about the character and what makes her tick and to me making her a demigodess actually means that she loses what truly made her special since the beginning and it really wasn't because she was a woman. In her previous origin she was granted her powers by the gods and she was given the lasso of truth after competing in the games and earning it the hard way including flight which was given by Hermes, her strength which was earned through hard work and training( BTW I really like that her combat skills are the result from training that she received from ares, it makes sense to me and adds something new to their rivalry if it ever gets explored). In her new origin a lot of her great feats are atributed to the fact that she's a demigodess rather than the fact that she trained for it. If you listen to the DVD commentaries with Linda carter she states that the one thing that made her special is that unlike other superheroes who are either mutated by radiation or a chemical accident, are aliens with special abilities or born with special powers, Diana actually earned hers through hard work and commitment alone. That's why her new origin doesn't work at all for me. Her powers are the result of being born with those abilities and not because she earned it like she had to previously.

#2 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

In the golden age origin, it seems that any woman who undergoes amazon training on paradise island can gain super powers altho this old explanation don't seem to make any sense. In the golden age, amazons would reform human female criminals on paradise island and these can become super amazons. Maybe the food in paradise island can make women super. In the bronze age, my impression was that all amazons were born super. In post-coie, wonder woman just got most of her powers for free from the greek gods similar to captain marvel shazam. The origin of the Wonder Woman can become more realistic and closer to that of the golden age origin if you turn the amazons into something like the League of Shadows of Ras Al Ghul so amazons won't have powers but are just ninjas. Traditionally, even in the golden age, Wonder Woman always had about Superman level powers so the powers has to come from somewhere. Maybe Diana won some contests and got the super powers as prizes from the gods ?

#3 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (741 posts) - - Show Bio

The new origin won't last. It's too uninspired, unoriginal and unnecessary. It weakens the concept as well as directly goes against it.

#4 Posted by lilben42 (2551 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked George Perez origin the best. It was so different and made perfect sense.

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#5 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

I liked George Perez origin the best. It was so different and made perfect sense.

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE:

@Skewer said:

There is no denying that Brian azzarello has made Wonder Woman more popular in recent years than she ever was before and its also pretty controversial among fans because of the changes made to her character. There are things about his run and I can see why it's popular and I can also see why it's unpopular among old fans. The most controversial change is making her a daughter of Zeus which means that she has been born from her mother being intimate with a man rather than being crafted from clay and given life by Hera answering her prayers. I am not that big a fan of Wonder Woman, but I do understand a bit about the character and what makes her tick and to me making her a demigodess actually means that she loses what truly made her special since the beginning and it really wasn't because she was a woman. In her previous origin she was granted her powers by the gods and she was given the lasso of truth after competing in the games and earning it the hard way including flight which was given by Hermes, her strength which was earned through hard work and training( BTW I really like that her combat skills are the result from training that she received from ares, it makes sense to me and adds something new to their rivalry if it ever gets explored). In her new origin a lot of her great feats are atributed to the fact that she's a demigodess rather than the fact that she trained for it. If you listen to the DVD commentaries with Linda carter she states that the one thing that made her special is that unlike other superheroes who are either mutated by radiation or a chemical accident, are aliens with special abilities or born with special powers, Diana actually earned hers through hard work and commitment alone. That's why her new origin doesn't work at all for me. Her powers are the result of being born with those abilities and not because she earned it like she had to previously.

Nice write up, however I think I take task with two things.

1. Azzerrelo has not made the character more popular, The New 52 marketing push has. This could have been done with out the unnecessary retcon that the characters undergone, making her less unique. Also for some reason fans who say they hate the series continue to buy it, in support of WW. I don´t get their logic, but I respect their intentions. I personally will not be purchasing a WW comic until her old origin is restored or a more interesting WW story emerges, including her villains and traditional supporting cast. I´m not into this whole emo version of WW.

2. She never got her powers through training, since the 70s its been explained that her powers were given to her by the Gods. Before then all Amazons were superpowered, their training only enhanced that. I get what Lynda is trying to say, but it isn´t exactly true. I also think her being trained by Ares is a mistake. If you look at the history of female heroes, even ones as feminist friendly as Batwoman (great comic) all of them have been trained by men. Their mentor is always a man. WW was unique in that all her gifts and abilities stemmed from her training and sisterhood with the women of Paradise Island and in particular her mother. Alot of people don´t realize just how unique this is. Go back look at the many female superheroes or action heroines, its very remarkable. Xena, trained by man, Sarah Conner, trained by man, Supergirl has man as mentor, Batwoman, trained by father, Clarice Starling, mentored by a man and father figure is most important to her moral compass, and the list goes on. So yes that really was part of WW´s influence on the feminist movement. I know its a dirty word these days, but I think that legacy of a truly feminist hero should be maintained, and DC has a responsibility to do so.

#6 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

http://www.comics.org/issue/33009/cover/4/

wikia has a good summary of the golden age origin and the bronze age origin updates. Even after wonder woman 105 blessing of the gods similar to the later post-coie origin, they did hold another amazon contest and Diana lost to Orana (ww 250-251), so I tended to assume all the amazons had super powers in the bronze age when I was a kid. The amazon contests made sense to me only if all the amazons had the same level of super powers even when I was a kid. Most of the bronze age stories did assume all the amazons had super powers. The golden age origin was similar to the origin of Peter Cannon Thunderbolt who got super powers from training and using 100% of brain power, which unfortunately, is no longer believable these days bec. we know that all humans already use 100% of their brain. A possible update to the golden age training origin is to say the amazons have technology like purple ray technology to add energy to the bodies of amazons but they need training to be able to use this additional energy. Another possible update to the golden age training origin is to say paradise island has magical energy (like asian indian mythology or chinese mythology chi) that can be used by amazon training to give people super powers.

http://wonder-woman.wikia.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman

Originally, Wonder Woman was able to will a tremendous amount of brain energy into her muscles and limbs by Amazon training which endowed her with extraordinary strength and agility. The TV series show took up this notion; "... we are able to develop our minds and physical skills ..." ["Fausta:The Nazi Wonder Woman" 1976]; and in the first episode of Super Friends [1973] Diana states to Aquaman "... the only thing that can surpass super strength is the power of the brain". In early Wonder Woman stories, Amazon training involves strengthening this ability using pure mental energy. Her powers would be removed in accordance with Aphrodite's Law if she allowed herself to be bound or chained by a male.

With the inclusion of Wonder Girl and Wonder Tot in Diana's backstory, writers provided new explanations of her powers; the character became capable of feats which her sister Amazons could not equal. Wonder Woman Volume One #105, reveals that Diana was formed from clay by the Queen of the Amazons and was imbued with the attributes of the Greek gods by Athena - "beautiful as Aphrodite, wise as Athena, swifter than Hermes, and stronger than Hercules."

#7 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

As most of you know, I'm not really for one origin or the other. I see it as what's done is done and what's happening now is what we have. My preference id for the 1987 retelling of Wonder Woman, it was superb.

#8 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

The current demigod origin is more familiar to the general public since it is the same origin as Hercules and Jesus. Nothing wrong with having a mother and also a father, altho i try my best not to eat anything with a mother or a father for health reasons. I see nothing wrong with being born with powers and then working hard to learn kung fu from both females and males, and maybe the underachiever Superman should learn from the hardworking Wonder Woman. It hurts me a lot to see Superman get beaten up by kryptonians just bec Superman is too lazy to learn kung fu.

#9 Posted by Skewer (325 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus was not a demigod^

#10 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skewer said:

Jesus was not a demigod^

Jesus by the definition of the word demigod is a demigod first of all. Christians might see it another way, but a demigod is the child of a divine power and a human. Thats it. Plus @colonyofcells:didn´t say Jesus was a demigod.

#11 Posted by arcano_19 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

i think renovation is good for the character im also a hardcore fan of her

#12 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually don't mind it, but it's just the overwhelming male presence of the book that gets me a little, if that makes sense at all?

  • The Amazons are man killers
  • They trade off their males for weapons
  • Ares was the one who trained Diana

Diana was raised by strong females, yet in the New 52 the Amazons have been stereotyped from the legend itself.

I love a positive male presence, but it is the lack of positive female presence that bothers me.

Diana's origin has been ripped away, I mean how would people feel if Bruce Wayne's parents weren't dead or if Clark Kent weren't raised as an alien farm boy.

#13 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcano_19 said:

i think renovation is good for the character im also a hardcore fan of her

TO BE HONEST if you can say that, I can´t see how you are. Because the character in the current book is not wonder woman. Do you mean you are a fan of any book with wonder woman as its title. so even in they made it that shes now from krypton, you´d like it cause its still a wonder woman title. I´m not trying to insult but that makes no sense. so wonder woman for her own good had to lose her origin, her character, her supporting cast, her uniqueness, her powers, and her villians. Now she´s much improved, because she´s no longer wonder woman. I have to agree with Goku here, if people think she needed that much of a change, wouldn´t it be better to just cancel the title. and I´m not being dramatic.

@Madame_Mist said:

I actually don't mind it, but it's just the overwhelming male presence of the book that gets me a little, if that makes sense at all?

  • The Amazons are man killers
  • They trade off their males for weapons
  • Ares was the one who trained Diana

Diana was raised by strong females, yet in the New 52 the Amazons have been stereotyped from the legend itself.

I love a positive male presence, but it is the lack of positive female presence that bothers me.

Diana's origin has been ripped away, I mean how would people feel if Bruce Wayne's parents weren't dead or if Clark Kent weren't raised as an alien farm boy.

Thats my point, when you take these intrinsic thing that make a character away from them they cease to be that character anymore. I´ve seen the animated film of wonder woman, could they not just have started a new wonder woman adventure like that in the New 52, only a bit darker and more adult themed. Would that be so difficult.

#14 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Everything and anything changes in all the universes and there is no such thing as intrinsic in the origin of Wonder Woman. The hardest thing to change about super heroes is their look and even that evolves slowly over time usually and sometimes, reboots can result in a totally new costume. Super hero origins are easy to redo bec. you do have to keep up with the current and latest human technology. The New 52 writer wanted to do Endless type of stories so it made sense for Wonder Woman to be related to the greek gods and the amazons are actually no longer needed in the new origin. Wonder Woman could easily have been the child of Zeus and a girl in new york but for the sake of a slower transition to the new origin, the superfluous amazons were retained.

#15 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (741 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells said:

Everything and anything changes in all the universes and there is no such thing as intrinsic in the origin of Wonder Woman. The hardest thing to change about super heroes is their look and even that evolves slowly over time usually and sometimes, reboots can result in a totally new costume. Super hero origins are easy to redo bec. you do have to keep up with the current and latest human technology. The New 52 writer wanted to do Endless type of stories so it made sense for Wonder Woman to be related to the greek gods and the amazons are actually no longer needed in the new origin. Wonder Woman could easily have been the child of Zeus and a girl in new york but for the sake of a slower transition to the new origin, the superfluous amazons were retained.

It's either the origin or it's not. That's what's pissing people off so much. You can retell Superman's origin and make him the son of Zod from the planet Mars, but that's not Superman. It's infuriating that Wonder Woman's origin has been casually discarded to tell one story that's not even about her. What's worse is it was done in such a way as to callously make fun of her real one. The whole thing was designed to piss us off. You can tell in the way Artemis and Philippus were replaced for Aleka and Dessa or the in story jabs at Wonder Woman's core fans.

I was going to try to stick it out because I love Wonder Woman, but Azzarello is not going to take my money for an inferior product, while constantly antagonizing me. He's attempting to shatter a work of art and grind the jagged shards into my hand and I'm supposed to pay for it? Like Sweet Brown said, "Aint nobody got time for that!". Life is too short and comics are too expensive.

#16 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE said:

@colonyofcells said:

Everything and anything changes in all the universes and there is no such thing as intrinsic in the origin of Wonder Woman. The hardest thing to change about super heroes is their look and even that evolves slowly over time usually and sometimes, reboots can result in a totally new costume. Super hero origins are easy to redo bec. you do have to keep up with the current and latest human technology. The New 52 writer wanted to do Endless type of stories so it made sense for Wonder Woman to be related to the greek gods and the amazons are actually no longer needed in the new origin. Wonder Woman could easily have been the child of Zeus and a girl in new york but for the sake of a slower transition to the new origin, the superfluous amazons were retained.

It's either the origin or it's not. That's what's pissing people off so much. You can retell Superman's origin and make him the son of Zod from the planet Mars, but that's not Superman. It's infuriating that Wonder Woman's origin has been casually discarded to tell one story that's not even about her. What's worse is it was done in such a way as to callously make fun of her real one. The whole thing was designed to piss us off. You can tell in the way Artemis and Philippus were replaced for Aleka and Dessa or the in story jabs at Wonder Woman's core fans.

I was going to try to stick it out because I love Wonder Woman, but Azzarello is not going to take my money for an inferior product, while constantly antagonizing me. He's attempting to shatter a work of art and grind the jagged shards into my hand and I'm supposed to pay for it? Like Sweet Brown said, "Aint nobody got time for that!". Life is too short and comics are too expensive.

Thankyou. This guy claims to be a hardcore WW fan, but says the Amazons were superfluous characters. How on earth as well a woman, who is the first superhero, who stood for principles of peace, feminist ideals, equality, beauty and being a bad ass warrior is antimodern, I will never comprehend. Maybe in this guys version of the modern world females are inferior, would be savages with out men, are in need of leadership from men, are niave and are generally considered second place to their male counterparts, but thats not the modern world I live in.

And just to clarify what I mean, you talk about changes to superman and batman or even the Flash, but no changes (apart from silver age flash) have been made that are so drastic to the characters, their villains, their supporting cast, than the changes made to Wonder Woman. There is no comparison, I believe in the history of comics to a such a popular and iconic character, being transformed in such a way. Any changes to Superman have all enhanced his mythology, they´ve modernized it, made him more relatable by making him more 3 dimensional or adding scientific concepts to the story to make it more believable. I do not see how making Diana Zeus´s child has achieved any of this, neither do I see how making the Amazons savages achieves this, or making her niave, lead by men, none of this has achieved the enhancement of her character. If this series has had any success it is simply because of the New 52 marketing push. If they had have done that with Greg Ruckas run it would have been just as popular, even though its popularity is now waining. Added to that people seem to relate to the animated film just fine. I haven´t heard anyone who watched it saying they couldn´t relate to her because of her origin, in fact it stands as one of DC´s more popular animated title.

Here´s how you modernise a character, you take their story and flesh it out. That simple. You ask questions like, what is Etta Candy really like? who is she really or Steve Trevor or Hippolyta. Or you ask what problems would a person face if they really had been secluded from the world and all they´d known their whole life was paradise? what problems would an all female utopian society face? would such a society intrinsically have tention? etc etc. I.e, look at the mythology and question it. Just like Batman Year One, or Earth One did for Batman, or Superman Birth Right did for superman. Its that simple. WW story is intriguing and needed exploring. This current story lacks any intrigue and has been explored thousands of times in european literature going all the way back to the greeks. also the demigod story has been explored better than azzerrelo is doing.

I´d just like to add, its not just that the story has been changed to be unrecognizable, when there was nothing wrong with it in the first place, but also, that quite simply its fucking boring. Atleast if was interesting we might have a point. I say get rid of this emo hercules/xena wonder woman, before her legacy is completely destroyed. From the most unique female superhero in the world to quite frankly the most generic. I see no improvements. In all due respect. @colonyofcells:

#17 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Since the Thor movie and Immortals movie made some money, maybe dc thought doing Wonder Woman greek mythology would be a great idea. The Wonder Woman reboot obviously is trying to find new customers since it is so different from the pre-flashpoint version. Geoff Johns has a backup plan version in the Justice League that is more similar to pre-flashpoint version if the Wonder Woman title flops.

#18 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Dc did more changes to Wonder Woman probably bec it was not selling well pre-flashpoint. The post-flashpoint policy was to do less changes on titles which were selling well. Batman titles got the least amount of changes post-flashpoint. Dc is there to make money and not to push feminism, veganism, etc. The right way to modernize Wonder Woman would be to use pseudo science New Gods style explanations on the greek gods so that the greek gods don't seem so mysterious anymore in the age of science. Hercules/Xena and Thor made lots of money so maybe dc decided to copy them.

#19 Posted by ZEELLO (223 posts) - - Show Bio

by this logic Batman should have been able to gain Superman-like powers through all his training

yea I think I figured Batman out, he never really trained, he just used his parents money to make a costume and a kewl car, and hire a pantsless boy toy to follow him around

#20 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells said:

Since the Thor movie and Immortals movie made some money, maybe dc thought doing Wonder Woman greek mythology would be a great idea. The Wonder Woman reboot obviously is trying to find new customers since it is so different from the pre-flashpoint version. Geoff Johns has a backup plan version in the Justice League that is more similar to pre-flashpoint version if the Wonder Woman title flops.

The preflashpoint WW, that was the massive flop was another weird ass retcon. Wonder Woman Odyssey. Actually the others sold relatively well when they pushed a strong and coherent story. Ruckas had a decent run commercially, actually about the same or better as the current run, Simone also. This is from a character that has not had any media or anything about her, since the 70s. New 52 was a great platform to reintroduce WW, and they blew it.

@colonyofcells said:

Dc did more changes to Wonder Woman probably bec it was not selling well pre-flashpoint. The post-flashpoint policy was to do less changes on titles which were selling well. Batman titles got the least amount of changes post-flashpoint. Dc is there to make money and not to push feminism, veganism, etc. The right way to modernize Wonder Woman would be to use pseudo science New Gods style explanations on the greek gods so that the greek gods don't seem so mysterious anymore in the age of science. Hercules/Xena and Thor made lots of money so maybe dc decided to copy them.

@colonyofcells: Wonder Woman never pushed feminism first of all or veganism. It just made sense to her character. Secondly the run you´re reffering to which was greg ruckas actually sold pretty well, so if you´re taking shots at it for making her character more interesting and well-rounded by emphasizing her being a vegan and certain feminist aspects of her story, you´re completely of course, because that sold better than any of her runs in recent history. The fact is it added dimensions to her character and stayed true to the creators vision.

As for pushing feminism, WW never did that beyond just being a powerful feminine hero. Its not like every page was talking about how women are equal, or should get equal pay etc it was her actions and the story itself that had feminist implications to it. I think you´re confusing what I´m saying. There are many interesting things to be said about the story of WW, but the fact of the matter is, the story was a great story as it was. Forget anything about feminist implications for a second, I´m just talking about the story itself, it was and should be as iconic as Batman and Superman. It was the complete journey, and story of the birth of a hero. Just like the fateful day when Kal El was found by the kents in that rocket ship that fell from the heavens or the day poor young Bruce was orphaned after his billionaire parents were gunned down infront of him, so was the story of WW had that classical superhero story about it, and it was original to her. So the day that queen hippolyta prayed to her patron goddess for a child, and was granted by them not only a daughter but a Wonder Woman. There is just something intrinsically timeless about this story. Some people might not get it, just like some people don´t get superman or some not Batman, but its remained so popular for so many years that there has to be something special about it.

Last I want to add just two things, they´ve put out a successful DVD, that has clearly turned alot of people including myself to wonder woman, why don´t they use that as a template rather than Azz´s unsuccessful run. And yes it hasn´t been a great success, no matter what people might think.

Two, build her a legacy in the media and maybe her story will begin to penetrate the minds of modern audiences, so they don´t think of her as the chick that twirls and has a lasso that forces people to tell the truth. thats why her comics don´t sell, because people still think of her that way.

#21 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

There are some mythologies wherein people gain super powers by using training to activate the super powers granted or the magical energy granted. A lot of people also don't like the origin of Karate Kid who seems to have super powers from training or Peter Cannon Thunderbolt. I think dc got rid of the spinning wonder woman long ago altho the lasso of truth is actually interesting and John Byrne even made Diana the goddess of truth in olympus for a brief period. Dc probably thought radical changes are needed to make people view Wonder Woman differently. It also took Batman a many years to shake off the misconceptions generated by the Adam West tv show. The old campy Wonder Woman tv show still casts a shadow on Wonder Woman that she needs to break out of and radical changes are needed probably.

#22 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (741 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells said:

Since the Thor movie and Immortals movie made some money, maybe dc thought doing Wonder Woman greek mythology would be a great idea. The Wonder Woman reboot obviously is trying to find new customers since it is so different from the pre-flashpoint version. Geoff Johns has a backup plan version in the Justice League that is more similar to pre-flashpoint version if the Wonder Woman title flops.

We've been getting mythology based stories for YEARS, that's nothing new with Wonder Woman. Why would delving more deeply into mythology now sell better than it did in Rucka's run? It's because Azzarello is doing his wannabe sizzling version of the gods and putting Wonder Woman on the back burner to simmer on low.

#23 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (741 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells said:

Dc did more changes to Wonder Woman probably bec it was not selling well pre-flashpoint. The post-flashpoint policy was to do less changes on titles which were selling well. Batman titles got the least amount of changes post-flashpoint. Dc is there to make money and not to push feminism, veganism, etc. The right way to modernize Wonder Woman would be to use pseudo science New Gods style explanations on the greek gods so that the greek gods don't seem so mysterious anymore in the age of science. Hercules/Xena and Thor made lots of money so maybe dc decided to copy them.

It's not selling much better now, so all the changes have been for nothing. And you can't give me that "edited for campiness" argument when Azz has Strife hamming it up like a "RuPaul's Drag Race" contestant and Hera and Zola acting like Lavern & Shirley.

#24 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Changes in origin can happen even to the bigger properties. In the silver age, they decided to give Aquaman an Atlantis mother by copying Namor which is similar to how WW now has Zeus as a father by copying Thor. Golden age Hawkman changed from reincarnated Prince Khufu to the silver age Thanagarian. Golden age Green Lantern changed from magical cop to silver age alien cop. Post-coie, reboots accelerated for many old failed properties. Like the various reboots of Omac are all quite different from Jack Kirby's Omac. If the current WW title flops again, there are more reboots that can be done easily, and I am sure WW will get lots of reboots long after I am dead. There were tons of reboots post-coie and I got used to reboots many years ago so post-flashpoint was just more of the same old reboots.

#25 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells said:

Changes in origin can happen even to the bigger properties. In the silver age, they decided to give Aquaman an Atlantis mother by copying Namor which is similar to how WW now has Zeus as a father by copying Thor. Golden age Hawkman changed from reincarnated Prince Khufu to the silver age Thanagarian. Golden age Green Lantern changed from magical cop to silver age alien cop. Post-coie, reboots accelerated for many old failed properties. Like the various reboots of Omac are all quite different from Jack Kirby's Omac. If the current WW title flops again, there are more reboots that can be done easily, and I am sure WW will get lots of reboots long after I am dead. There were tons of reboots post-coie and I got used to reboots many years ago so post-flashpoint was just more of the same old reboots.

Yep, we all know what happened in the silver age, thats very different, I even mentioned in my post about what happened to Flash. The difference is they were completely out of commission at that time, and DC only had 3 titles supes, bats and ww. the changes were a vast improvement on a very basic concept, if you read the golden age Green lantern, Hawk Man and Flash, you´ll see it was noway as robust and realized a story as WW, Superman or Batman. They just didn´t make sense. I´m a huge Flash fan and I know, it was barely even a story in the golden age. Flash was just some college kid who gained his powers, by get this, inhaling water vapours. Yep thats right. The idea of a superfast guy was cool, but obviously that needs an update. People didn´t even care when the title was cancelled, cause it was just silly.

WW´s story one is unique and makes sense to her character and two, has had many more people invested in it. she is not just some forgotten hero from the golden age, many great stories have been told about her mythology and people are invested in not just her, but her supporting cast, villains and story. Its a completely different scenario. She has so many more fans invested in her story. The idea should be to grow her fan base, not alienate her old ones. Fact, the animated feature achieved that, fact, Azzerrelo´s run and the reboot before that hasn´t.

By the way I also believe in changes to even my favorite characters, when it makes sense and doesn´t go against the spirit of the original character. Like Hulk, I get them changing how he got his powers. A gamma bomb after all is a bit over the top; however if they suddenly made it so he turns into the Hulk when he´s happy, I´d be equally pissed off. That won´t be the same character anymore.

I´ll give you this though, I think it will revert back to the classical tale again, when DC get some sense, but they still will have missed out on the marketing opportunity that the new 52 gave WW. I also shouldn´t take things so seriously, but as I said I have invested and care about the legacy of WW. One day I want to share her stories with my daughter, and I want her to have a wonder woman that makes sense to her generation or at least a movie we can watch, and, I want to be able to point her toward some classic modern stories of her, but there won´t be any. :(

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE said:

@colonyofcells said:

Since the Thor movie and Immortals movie made some money, maybe dc thought doing Wonder Woman greek mythology would be a great idea. The Wonder Woman reboot obviously is trying to find new customers since it is so different from the pre-flashpoint version. Geoff Johns has a backup plan version in the Justice League that is more similar to pre-flashpoint version if the Wonder Woman title flops.

We've been getting mythology based stories for YEARS, that's nothing new with Wonder Woman. Why would delving more deeply into mythology now sell better than it did in Rucka's run? It's because Azzarello is doing his wannabe sizzling version of the gods and putting Wonder Woman on the back burner to simmer on low.

what he said.

#26 Posted by RazzaTazz (9647 posts) - - Show Bio

The Perez version was still born with these powers but I know what you mean. I think it is still a part of her character that she underwent rigourous training as a child in her warrior society.

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#27 Posted by lilben42 (2551 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skewer: I agree about new readers liking the origin and old classic readers not really enjoying it.

@Madame_Mist: I absolutely hated that they killed men. I also hated that they traded men for weapons. The Ares thing is alright. I just feel like her origin is kind of cliche now. I'm going to try to keep reading it hopefully something happens to WW soon.

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#28 Posted by arcano_19 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

Just give it time, everything will make sense on future.

#29 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

There's been a lot of time and not a lot of development (17 issues by the time of this post).

#30 Posted by darkman61288 (752 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont mined the fact that they changed her origin a little bit. Diana's preflashpoint was great in the 40's but today she needed revamp. Diana, who is supose to be one of the trinity was selling very poorly compared to Superman and Batman. They thought a change would increase readership and they were right. The reason sales are dropping is because the storyline is running too long. Also most of DC's books are dropping in sales due a poor execution of the New 52 by the writing staff. Personality I think that giving her a mortal father would have been better. She would have been a hero of two worlds.

#31 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it would've been simpler to just give Diana Prince a mortal mother and get the amazons out of the Wonder Woman origin.

#32 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: Oh no you di'int! :D Yeah man, you know that would never . . . . ever . . . happen.

#33 Posted by Hoenhime (137 posts) - - Show Bio

I like her current origin. I actally prefer her demi-god version more than her old 'made out of clay thing'. But I dislike the fact that the amazonians kill men and sell their male children for weapons, that is way different from the previous version of the amazonians and it is also different from the mythological version of the amzonians, the real amazonians actally had a whole seperate island for their male citizens, I dont know why the amazonians were turned into killers...and then killed off.

#34 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE said:

The new origin won't last. It's too uninspired, unoriginal and unnecessary. It weakens the concept as well as directly goes against it.

That name ? is that homage to General Hospital?

#35 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1295 posts) - - Show Bio

the@Hoenhime said:

I like her current origin. I actally prefer her demi-god version more than her old 'made out of clay thing'. But I dislike the fact that the amazonians kill men and sell their male children for weapons, that is way different from the previous version of the amazonians and it is also different from the mythological version of the amzonians, the real amazonians actally had a whole seperate island for their male citizens, I dont know why the amazonians were turned into killers...and then killed off.

In some versions of the myth, no men were permitted to have sexual encounters or reside in Amazon country; but once a year, in order to prevent their race from dying out, they visited the Gargareans, a neighboring tribe. The male children who were the result of these visits were either killed, sent back to their fathers or exposed in the wilderness also the male amazon kids in the new 52 scream new potential villain coming soon proly

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