Who is Diana?

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#1 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

A Wonder-- a woman, a warrior, a diplomat and incredibly strong mentally & physically with a warm sense of humor.

Projects a human connection with almost all living beings- animals & people including enemies.

A person who uses violence as a last measure after trying peaceful means to resolve a situation.

Someone who smiles and encourages others to find their peace and strength.

I am not seeing a balance of these qualities in WW. How she can be considered to be her best while not maintaining & displaying this balance appears to show a disconnect with who the character is. Even with a reboot, there should be consistency with a major character. A dozen actors have played Doctr Who, but there had always been consistency in who the Doctor is.

I have always loved successful reboots. Waiting on one for Diana.

#2 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

Not so wonder, and not even a woman. Her policy its to "beat first, talk later", specially if her enemy is a man. She has not any sense of humor at all! she is pale, cold, arrogant , stubborn, masculine, butchly and silly pride, she doesnt trust even in her colleagues in the way that to receive help from anybody (specially a man) its an insult to her. The only thing that i agree with you its that she is a warrior, but thats not a compliment to her.

#3 Edited by ImagineMan16 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

Not so wonder, and not even a woman. Her policy its to "beat first, talk later", specially if her enemy is a man. She has not any sense of humor at all! she is pale, cold, arrogant , stubborn, masculine, butchly and silly pride, she doesnt trust even in her colleagues in the way that to receive help from anybody (specially a man) its an insult to her. The only thing that i agree with you its that she is a warrior, but thats not a compliment to her.

This gives me the feeling that you're most familiar with New 52 Diana...

#4 Edited by toplel (973 posts) - - Show Bio

@imagineman16: I think thats the version being discussed. But honestly, a lot of writers who cant get the balance right tend to portray her as an all out hardcore warrior giving no shits about snapping a few necks and taking lives. The loving and compassionate nature is almost always absent. In Kingdom Come, Waid apologized for her portrayal; right now DC is seriously pushing this as if this is who Wonder Woman is.

#5 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

I was describing the definitive WW and showing were the ball is being dropped with the current version.

The current version would not have survived the first few appearances of WW in the 40s to make it to this point.

Enjoying one storyline(which is all today's fans get) is not the public appeal a major character needs to maintain to crossover mediums from comics to TV to movies.

Currently, who does Diana love? What is her overall goal & mission? What are the ideals and Amazon history she embodies- raping & killing(and in what way did the new 52 hide this behavior if their culture was still about all day fighting and calling Diana "Clay")? What is Diana's connection to the world outside of mythology.

A new reader seeking to know WW shouldn't have to read JL to get pieces of her past or other books to learn of her somewhat love interests Supes or Steve Trevor. The fact that she does not interact or acknowledge them in her own book is very bad writing. It would be like never seeing Lois in a main Superman title. And only seeing Luthor and Brainiac in JL and other books Superman readers may not follow. Villains help establish the character.

#6 Edited by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

Not so wonder, and not even a woman. Her policy its to "beat first, talk later", specially if her enemy is a man. She has not any sense of humor at all! she is pale, cold, arrogant , stubborn, masculine, butchly and silly pride, she doesnt trust even in her colleagues in the way that to receive help from anybody (specially a man) its an insult to her. The only thing that i agree with you its that she is a warrior, but thats not a compliment to her.

In Justice League, sure (and I think you'll find that most serious fans of the character are not big on that run), but in her own monthly comic this certainly doesn't apply, and in the long of history of the character this couldn't be further from the truth.

#7 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri:

@sinisteri said:

A Wonder-- a woman, a warrior, a diplomat and incredibly strong mentally & physically with a warm sense of humor.

Projects a human connection with almost all living beings- animals & people including enemies.

A person who uses violence as a last measure after trying peaceful means to resolve a situation.

Someone who smiles and encourages others to find their peace and strength.

I am not seeing a balance of these qualities in WW. How she can be considered to be her best while not maintaining & displaying this balance appears to show a disconnect with who the character is. Even with a reboot, there should be consistency with a major character. A dozen actors have played Doctr Who, but there had always been consistency in who the Doctor is.

I have always loved successful reboots. Waiting on one for Diana.

@danieles said:

Not so wonder, and not even a woman. Her policy its to "beat first, talk later", specially if her enemy is a man. She has not any sense of humor at all! she is pale, cold, arrogant , stubborn, masculine, butchly and silly pride, she doesnt trust even in her colleagues in the way that to receive help from anybody (specially a man) its an insult to her. The only thing that i agree with you its that she is a warrior, but thats not a compliment to her.

When Diana snapped the neck of Maxwell Lord for better or worse, I believe Greg Rucka had his heart in the right place, in that it was depicted as a last result.

In the New 52, they´ve simplified her character, given her rogues that are apparently no good to other heroes (Superboy, Batwoman) and accordingly they´ve stripped her of any intelligence in her own comic (No longer diplomat or wise or capable, just a kind hearted bimbo) and just given her some ridiculous compassion when she was raised by rapists and babykillers, and, on the other hand in the Justice League made her out to be a masculine, terrifying, homocidal, ice queen that no one can like. (but atleast Johns is consistent with the retconned origin) We are in a generation where WW´s legacy is in serious jeopardy. What they are doing to the character is utterly appalling, more an act of vandalism than creativity. But to be fair to DC and this is not a compliment, they seem to want to do this to all their cast of fantastic characters. Look at Man Of Steel, our own neck snapping jesus. I´m serious these comics and film depictions of our heroes are getting so dark and blood thirsty, that they are almost as bad as the campy 40s depictions that the characters were originally based on. From the 70s to 90s and even early 2000s DC were concerned with good writing, no longer and its a shame.

#8 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

Not so wonder, and not even a woman. Her policy its to "beat first, talk later", specially if her enemy is a man. She has not any sense of humor at all! she is pale, cold, arrogant , stubborn, masculine, butchly and silly pride, she doesnt trust even in her colleagues in the way that to receive help from anybody (specially a man) its an insult to her. The only thing that i agree with you its that she is a warrior, but thats not a compliment to her.

This is what people think after reading nothing but John's Justice League. Fantastic

#9 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1416 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: your overreacting you make it sound like superman was looking for a fight in beside in that movie superman was getting his ass handing to him by Faora and Zod was throwing his ass thru building and throwing a satellite at him if the fight went any longer the whole city would had been demolished .Wonder Woman a lot people are liking her being badass also bloodthirsty seriously? dude calm down your making it sound that the movie and comic universe went injustice(game story) now my friends that dark and character are bloody thirsty

#10 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@danieles said:

Not so wonder, and not even a woman. Her policy its to "beat first, talk later", specially if her enemy is a man. She has not any sense of humor at all! she is pale, cold, arrogant , stubborn, masculine, butchly and silly pride, she doesnt trust even in her colleagues in the way that to receive help from anybody (specially a man) its an insult to her. The only thing that i agree with you its that she is a warrior, but thats not a compliment to her.

In Justice League, sure (and I think you'll find that most serious fans of the character are not big on that run), but in her own monthly comic this certainly doesn't apply, and in the long of history of the character this couldn't be further from the truth.

show evidence of this.

#11 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@darknightspideyfanboy:

Badass does not mean asshole. WW has not been seen as a pushover for most of her existence and has always been serious. There seems to be an opinion that she was weak which is baseless.

WW was able to get the job done alternatively with words, wisdom, tactical skills, and violence as appropriate. This Hawkman version is laughable at best.

Is there anything still feminine about this WW?

#12 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles: I find it interesting that you want me to provide evidence when you have provided none. But, anyway, here goes (I won't provide every example - in fact, I'll only be able to provide a tiny fraction of the examples because there are so many):

  1. In Azzarello's run, Wonder Woman has relied on help from Orion and Lennox, and her most violent battle was with a woman (Artemis), not a man. In fact, other than her fight with the Firstborn, which was an act of self-defense, she hasn't really had any major battles with a male character.
  2. In the Perez run she repeatedly asks for help from Julia Kapatelis, Steve Trevor, and Etta Candy, and in issue 25 works with Rocket Red, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter (works so well with these three men, in fact, that all three commend her at the end of the Invasion conflict). In vol. II she also works with Batman, Superman, and The Flash, to name just a few.
  3. In the 70s version of the character where she loses her power her mentor, I Ching, is a man.
  4. At the beginning of Vol. III of Wonder Woman she is partnered with Nemesis for many issues (starting with issue 1) and calls on him for help a lot.
  5. In the Golden Age her primary antagonist is Paula von Gunther (a woman) and she spends much more time setting young women on the right path than she does fighting men or women - she uses her lasso a lot more than she uses her fists, and works with Steve Trevor in almost every issue.

I could go on. I'm still curious why you bother to read/comment on a character that you seem to really despise. I'm not a fan of Wolverine, so I don't buy his comics or go on his message boards. Seriously, what's your deal?

#13 Posted by batmannflash (6226 posts) - - Show Bio
This is Diana. (Pre New 52)
This is Diana. (New 52)

Still the same loving Wonder Woman

#14 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Edited by batmannflash (6226 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: No problem. I have more

Who is Diana? A warrior. A protector...A mother to the helpless

#16 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: in any of your evidence she is showed in love for a man; in any of your evidence , she is showed fragile and feminine, the only thing that ill concede its in the fact that she appears more "motherly" in some scenes.

take a look on this video and let me to know if she looks feminine,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Nf-m6WGl4

#17 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

@dmessmer: in any of your evidence she is showed in love for a man; in any of your evidence , she is showed fragile and feminine, the only thing that ill concede its in the fact that she appears more "motherly" in some scenes.

take a look on this video and let me to know if she looks feminine,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Nf-m6WGl4

I don't like to point out people's grammar mistakes because it is condescending to do so, but in this case I am genuinely having a hard time understanding your first sentence. Are you saying that I haven't provided evidence that she can love a man or that she is fragile and feminine? If that is what you are saying there, then here is my response:

  1. She is in love with Steve Trevor throughout the Golden Age and Silver Age and most of the Bronze Age. She didn't have many love interests in Vol. II beyond a few short-lived flirtations. Now she is in love with Superman. Regardless, why does she have to be in love with a man? I'm not sure what you're getting at.
  2. I would take issue with your notion that fragility and femininity are synonymous. No, she is not fragile - she's a superhero. She's also feminine, as evidenced by the fact that countless characters in the comics throughout the history of the character find her to be beautiful - usually overwhelmingly so. Maybe you don't find drawings of her attractive, and that's your prerogative, but a lot of people do.

Regarding the video - again, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. In that video she's fighting for her life, so I don't think looking feminine is really the goal at that moment. Batman doesn't look like a scientific genius in that video, and The Flash doesn't look like a forensic expert. It doesn't mean they aren't those things - that is one short video, not a complete summary of every character.

#18 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: "I don't like to point out people's grammar mistakes because it is condescending to do so, but in this case I am genuinely having a hard time understanding your first sentence."

Sorry english its not my native language, still learning, so dont blame me for it.

"Regardless, why does she have to be in love with a man? I'm not sure what you're getting at."

Ahh, do you want her in love for a woman for to satisfy your wet fantasies?

"No, she is not fragile - she's a superhero. She's also feminine, as evidenced by the fact that countless characters in the comics throughout the history of the character find her to be beautiful - usually overwhelmingly so. Maybe you don't find drawings of her attractive, and that's your prerogative, but a lot of people do".

I saw Nolan's Batman as a fragile man in touch of his emotions of guilty, i saw the last superman fragile towards his respect for his adoptive father. Why Male superheroes can be fragile, but she cant? let me guess, because feminist dont let her. An as said to Gokuwarrior, teh fact that she is beautiful is pointless and useless, because , as you said: "why does she have to be in love with a man?" A Giant frong with superstreght will do the same as her if she doesnt uses her beauty for nothing.

#19 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles: I wasn't blaming you for it, and as I said, I don't like to point grammar mistakes out. I just wanted to respectfully confirm that I was understanding you at that moment.

"Ahh, do you want her in love for a woman for to satisfy your wet fantasies?"

Apparently that respect is not reciprocal. My point was more that I don't think Wonder Woman, or any character for that matter, has to have a love interest. It's fine if they do, it's fine if they don't. The value of a character doesn't hinge on it, and I'm not sure why you brought it up.

I apparently misunderstood your use of the term "fragile." In that regard, Wonder Woman has shown fragility in many instances - the first four issues of Azzarello's run, for instance, or almost all of Perez's run. She constantly struggles with the weight of expectations, the challenges of bridging the gap between Amazon culture and the rest of the world, and her role as an ambassador and icon. In fact, Alex Ross's "Spirit of Truth" (the last image that @batmannflash included is from that) is all about the soul searching that she goes through as she tries to find her place in the world. So, in that regard, yes, she can be fragile. So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

#20 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: "Apparently that respect is not reciprocal. My point was more that I don't think Wonder Woman, or any character for that matter, has to have a love interest. It's fine if they do, it's fine if they don't. The value of a character doesn't hinge on it, and I'm not sure why you brought it up."

The problem here its not if WW can falls in love for another being or not: ill ask ya the next: how do you feel if she falls in love for a man much more powerful than her?

#21 Posted by batmannflash (6226 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: yes, Spirit of Truth is about Wonder Woman's soul searching and finding a place in man's world.

I just want to know, what are you two debating about, exactly?

#22 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmannflash: lol, i asked for a much more feminine wonder woman, and the controversy begans lol

#23 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

You did no such thing. Here is your post:

@danieles said:

Not so wonder, and not even a woman. Her policy its to "beat first, talk later", specially if her enemy is a man. She has not any sense of humor at all! she is pale, cold, arrogant , stubborn, masculine, butchly and silly pride, she doesnt trust even in her colleagues in the way that to receive help from anybody (specially a man) its an insult to her. The only thing that i agree with you its that she is a warrior, but thats not a compliment to her.

Anyway, it doesn't matter because I'm done "debating" with you. I'm tired of engaging someone who makes up information and convinces himself of things that are objectively not true. I've wasted too much time on you already.

#24 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: yeas i said that, not only in this post, its not my fault that, even with a well fluent english that you are so proud about, you arent unable to read under lines.

"Anyway, it doesn't matter because I'm done "debating" with you. I'm tired of engaging someone who makes up information and convinces himself of things that are objectively not true." So, are you the master of truth? are you the Feminist official representative here? Who are you to even thinks that your definition of truth are above the others? because you dont likes what i writes about? As i told you, the evidence are around you, but its not my fault that you are too lazy, or too coward for to find it by yourself.

#25 Edited by Kraya (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles: Your English is either so bad that no one can understand you or you are lying and/or contradicting yourself. Either way, the points you made make no sense and you seem to keep changing your mind between posts. That said, your conception of Wonder Woman seemingly consists only of her New 52 Justice League behaviour without including any other information. She is portrayed strong, compassionate and feminine both in her current comic book series and pre New 52 portrayals. So you're wrong.

#26 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1416 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri:eh i like my hero female or male feeling more human meaning show all the good emotion but also the bad one like fear and angry and that what it look it was show in jl she made be angry but that anger come from the fear that she might lose superman

#27 Edited by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@kraya: Im here to find about if wonder woman is a feminist icon of indoctrination, and ya guys still doesnt convinced me of the contrary. And as a woman, you should be feel ashamed that your superheroine has need of male strenght for to perform her tasks.. Corollary: you doesnt seems compassionate or feminine to me, and if she is your role model, something must be wrong.

#28 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

@dmessmer: yeas i said that, not only in this post, its not my fault that, even with a well fluent english that you are so proud about, you arent unable to read under lines.

"Anyway, it doesn't matter because I'm done "debating" with you. I'm tired of engaging someone who makes up information and convinces himself of things that are objectively not true." So, are you the master of truth? are you the Feminist official representative here? Who are you to even thinks that your definition of truth are above the others? because you dont likes what i writes about? As i told you, the evidence are around you, but its not my fault that you are too lazy, or too coward for to find it by yourself.

You like to speak of evidence but provide none. I acknowledge that some of my claims are subjective and warrant debate, but debate requires a willingness by all parties to accept objective facts, which is something you seem incapable of (the claim that most of Wonder Woman's villains are male, for instance, which is objectively false).

Your posts have also begun to take on a tone of personal attack, which is something I find completely inappropriate on this sort of forum, so I'm removing myself from the conversation.

#30 Posted by Kraya (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles: You sure can judge whether or not I am compassionate or feminine by looking at a forum post or two. You must be some kind of new age internet mind reader then.

I have no problem with Wonder Woman teaming up with someone. I won't feel ashamed of liking a character that is capable of working with people instead of just beating them up one after the other.

#31 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@kraya: Miss Kraya, thanks for your reply. Im not a internet mind reader lol, i just said that you doesnt seems, of course i could be wrong.

"I have no problem with Wonder Woman teaming up with someone. I won't feel ashamed of liking a character that is capable of working with people instead of just beating them up one after the other."

I agree with you in this.

#32 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:

Don't mind WW having help once in a while, but I am not picking up her solo title to follow WW & friends no more than I want to see that with Superman or Batman or Constantine. Not every issue when the main character is capable of solo adventures in a solo book. Hence the term solo. Wolverine may get help sometimes, but he is known for and depicted handling his own.

Diana doesn't seem independent while relying on supermen to help her almost every other panel.

#33 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri: Sinsiteri: this its one of the things that i wanna to find. What feminism says about empowered women: that they can get/achieve everything without the help of any men. My theory to prove, its if WW is a feminist icon ( i started with that premise), she'll rejects the help of any men, specially for to aid her in what she is more skilled for: combat.

#34 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

@dmessmer: "Your posts have also begun to take on a tone of personal attack, which is something I find completely inappropriate on this sort of forum, so I'm removing myself from the conversation." i agree with this, but if i receives personal attacks, ill do the same. A voice of men are filled of cases of men where have been stoled by their wives/couples, harassed, and even beated: thats what you likes dont you?: lot of powerful women that are able to beat, force and make men to look feel lesser dont you? thats why you likes WW, because you wants a personal Mistress that disciplines ya? c'mon tell the truth, dont be shy..

I never personally attacked you. I criticized some of the ideas that you offered in the forum and the manner in which you argued those ideas, but I never went beyond that. I even went out of my way to be as respectful as possible when I needed clarification about the meaning of one of your sentences. Yet you continue to make insulting comments to me - like almost everything you've posted here.

#35 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: my apologize if i has been rude with you dmessmer, was not my intention, but its becasue i finds strongly insulting a man defending feminism, so i cant help about. Im not a bad guy; well, yes: im a bad guy since my ideas and my beliefs are considered wrong in this modern society. As i said before, my purpose its to find if WW is a feminist influence, and why, and how much she influenced ya guys. So, you must understands that if ya, as WW fan/follower and also you defends feminism, you doesnt let me much space to think the opposite. I believes that popular culture does much more indoctrination into feminism, cultural marxism a and political correctness, than politic movements/organizatiosn. That why im here. Well, that, and i like Brunettes with blue eyes lol

#36 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1416 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri: it not like she facing normal people she is facing god god who use to destroy city for kicks beside you make sound like she cant handle herself which she can she was able defeat Artemis with out using god mode all she use was her skill to defeat her

#38 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread makes my head hurt.

#39 Posted by Pokeysteve (8527 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:

I think you're just ignoring the fact that she was an Amazon ambassador with the U.N. for well over a decade during which time she preached the Amazon way of peace. New 52 Wonder Woman is horrible. It brought in new readers but most the WW fans don't like it for various reasons.

Also your idea of a "feminine" WW seems to be a woman who barely fights crime during the day and is home with enough time to clean, do laundry, and make dinner.

Just curious, what's your first language?

#40 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:

I think you're just ignoring the fact that she was an Amazon ambassador with the U.N. for well over a decade during which time she preached the Amazon way of peace. New 52 Wonder Woman is horrible. It brought in new readers but most the WW fans don't like it for various reasons.

Also your idea of a "feminine" WW seems to be a woman who barely fights crime during the day and is home with enough time to clean, do laundry, and make dinner.

Just curious, what's your first language?

"I think you're just ignoring the fact that she was an Amazon ambassador with the U.N. for well over a decade during which time she preached the Amazon way of peace" Not much peace grinding men with bare hands.

"New 52 Wonder Woman is horrible. It brought in new readers but most the WW fans don't like it for various reasons." Lol, if ya guys hates new 52, then i must to take a better look into it!

"Also your idea of a "feminine" WW seems to be a woman who barely fights crime during the day and is home with enough time to clean, do laundry, and make dinner." No, we can discuss here about traditional roles for women if ya wants, but this will brings much more controversy than before. From my point of view, even New52 wonder woman are not feminine. I has 3 theories about: 1. Because feminist movement doesnt lets her to . Because Fans doesnt let her to 3. Because her writers are men, that has no idea about teh female condition/toughts/feelings.

#41 Edited by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

@pokeysteve said:

@danieles:

I think you're just ignoring the fact that she was an Amazon ambassador with the U.N. for well over a decade during which time she preached the Amazon way of peace. New 52 Wonder Woman is horrible. It brought in new readers but most the WW fans don't like it for various reasons.

Also your idea of a "feminine" WW seems to be a woman who barely fights crime during the day and is home with enough time to clean, do laundry, and make dinner.

Just curious, what's your first language?

"I think you're just ignoring the fact that she was an Amazon ambassador with the U.N. for well over a decade during which time she preached the Amazon way of peace" Not much peace grinding men with bare hands.

"New 52 Wonder Woman is horrible. It brought in new readers but most the WW fans don't like it for various reasons." Lol, if ya guys hates new 52, then i must to take a better look into it!

"Also your idea of a "feminine" WW seems to be a woman who barely fights crime during the day and is home with enough time to clean, do laundry, and make dinner." No, we can discuss here about traditional roles for women if ya wants, but this will brings much more controversy than before. From my point of view, even New52 wonder woman are not feminine. I has 3 theories about: 1. Because feminist movement doesnt lets her to . Because Fans doesnt let her to 3. Because her writers are men, that has no idea about teh female condition/toughts/feelings.

Dude I seriously have no idea what points you're trying to get across or where you're getting any of this stuff from.

#42 Posted by Pokeysteve (8527 posts) - - Show Bio

@peppeyhare: He's been trolling the Wonder Woman boards for the past few days. I doubt there even is a point.

#43 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinisteri: diana is comppasionate and kind like a devoted mother,a warm heart that has no prejudice and help even the most dangerous of her villans when they need help and she also has an strong spirit,powerful and fearless as a warrior that fight to protec people,men and women equially,these are the things that make her WONDER WOMAN!.

#44 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@darknightspideyfanboy:

Wonder Woman has had adventures for over 60 years against gods-- this concept is not new, at all. She has not always needed so much help every issue. My point was that she is one of the big 3, and this is her solo title. She should not need constant assistance anymore than Supes or Bats does, unless she is not in their league. Female or male, the hero should be able to handle most of his/her threats as a solo act. I am not saying she can't have help every once in the while, but almost every issue. And now, she is a vehicle for the New Gods. Ready to see some more diversity in her stories and see her handle a threat on her own-- like the character is capable of doing.

#45 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@darknightspideyfanboy: the gods that she defeats now are featless,and to be real gods they should be way above the city buster level,like they used to be before new 52,and what i want to see is more epic fights where she doesn't have help of other people,i don't mind to see her getting help in some fights,i don't mind to see her teaming up with other heros sometimes,but the problem is that in almost 2 years,she has only fought alone a few times,only 5 times in her solo title in almost 2 years.

#46 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:

@danieles said:

@dmessmer: "Your posts have also begun to take on a tone of personal attack, which is something I find completely inappropriate on this sort of forum, so I'm removing myself from the conversation." i agree with this, but if i receives personal attacks, ill do the same. A voice of men are filled of cases of men where have been stoled by their wives/couples, harassed, and even beated: thats what you likes dont you?: lot of powerful women that are able to beat, force and make men to look feel lesser dont you? thats why you likes WW, because you wants a personal Mistress that disciplines ya? c'mon tell the truth, dont be shy..

Who are you? Your one strange puppy.

@dmessmer said:

@danieles said:

@dmessmer: "Your posts have also begun to take on a tone of personal attack, which is something I find completely inappropriate on this sort of forum, so I'm removing myself from the conversation." i agree with this, but if i receives personal attacks, ill do the same. A voice of men are filled of cases of men where have been stoled by their wives/couples, harassed, and even beated: thats what you likes dont you?: lot of powerful women that are able to beat, force and make men to look feel lesser dont you? thats why you likes WW, because you wants a personal Mistress that disciplines ya? c'mon tell the truth, dont be shy..

I never personally attacked you. I criticized some of the ideas that you offered in the forum and the manner in which you argued those ideas, but I never went beyond that. I even went out of my way to be as respectful as possible when I needed clarification about the meaning of one of your sentences. Yet you continue to make insulting comments to me - like almost everything you've posted here.

I feel like I´ve landed in the twilight zone reading through your debate with dmessemer. I agree with what you´ve said. I have my dislike of Azzerrelo´s run of WW, but all in all your points are sound. I have no idea what this chick you´re debating with is talking about. I suspect she´s just done alot of drugs in her time. Its almost surreal.

gokuwarrior @gokuwarrior sometimes I think you´re too focused on her power level and this concept of her being mother like. I get it. I get really pissed off when I see in INjustice Gods Among us for instance characters like Green Lantern or Parralax or even f$""$"·ing killer frost causing WW problems. But for me you have a very exact vision of what WW ought to be which I think is part of the reason the character is held back. Hardcore WW fans just get pissed off too easily sometimes. Like for me right now Azzerrelo and Johns need to be stopped, but I read Amazons Attack recently, universally hated by WW fans. I have to say I didn´t think it was terrible. It was actually fairly entertaining. I would have preferred Hippolyta not as the villain, but altogether it wasn´t so bad and show different facets to The Amazons.

Any way it wasn´t an attack on you just more a question. I don´t see WW as anymore motherly than Batman and Superman are fatherly. To me she´s heroic, plain and simple, she´s not a mother substitute. I like her as ambassador, diplomat and strategist. So I don´t mind how high the levels of her power are as long as she can kick anyones ass, using her technique or strategy. Yes, I think it important that she be compassionate, but not in a motherly way, just in that she sees things differently from her male counterparts. Personally I prefer her being beautiful, in control of her sexuality and powerful. A symbol of the many facets of femininity. i can´t think of a motherly figure like that. But in the end the legacy of WW for me is not so tied to her power level, its tied to her compassion, her being an embassador of peace, her being able to be a sexual being like her male counterparts, without being reduced to a mere sexual object, her being a feminist and humanist all in one, her being a symbol of anti-violence like Marston conceived her as, yes she can fight, but she wishes first to understand and if she cannot resolve things that way only then will she resort to violence - all those things trump for me the power level thing. But at the same time her powers are part of her being all those things.

#47 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@peppeyhare: He's been trolling the Wonder Woman boards for the past few days. I doubt there even is a point.

No troll here, im asking for a more feminine WW, apparently,is a taboo here.

#48 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

@pokeysteve said:

@peppeyhare: He's been trolling the Wonder Woman boards for the past few days. I doubt there even is a point.

No troll here, im asking for a more feminine WW, apparently,is a taboo here.

What have you read? Alot of the WW runs have not been that successful in depicting her character, I´ll give you that. But also quite a few have.

#49 Edited by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: I have readed Perez John & Azarello's ones. Some of teh Goplden/Silver age, i dislike strongly the Bronze age and the Crisis. Still finding her too masculine for my taste.

#50 Edited by prettywonderboy (24 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Diana is the most beautiful and powerful female superhero in the comics world. Fact!

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