Who Do You Think Wonder Woman´s True Archenemy is? Ares or Cheeta

Hey I love Cheetah (especially Greg Ruckas take), but to be honest I´m confused as to why more hasn´t been made of her rivalry with Ares or even Dr. psycho, who can be trully sinister sometimes. I hope in Earth One more is made with her rivalry with some of her male enemies. She´s at her best when she´s battling the world of man. I also think they should bring back Dr. Poison as a twisted, steroid taking, dominatrics, transvestite, serial killer whose weapon of choice is poison for Earth One. However, my main point is people say WW villains aren´t cool, I think while a lot of them aren´t some of them really are some of the best villains in comics. Venessa Cale, Cheetah are great. But they underuse Dr. Poison, Dr. Psycho and especially Ares, is tragically underused. He is pure magic on the page when he´s used. He needs to be unleashed on the world more often, giving WW the chance to do what she does best. Fight the evils of a male dominated violent society. He can also be very real world, touching on modern day conflicts, genocides etc. I can´t believe even the greatest WW (Greg Rucka and Gail Simone) haven´t thought of this. Let me know your thoughts. Should Ares take over as Wonder Woman´s archenemy? Or do you think there are other villains I haven´t thought of yet.

Sorry forgot Circe, still like Ares more though.

I would say Cheetah then Circe. Ares is not used that much? There was three story arcs in volume 2, none in volume 3 (I cant remember any) and none so far in vol 4. There were a few in the golden age with Mars, but overall Ares is more of a part time bad guy.

1. Cheetah
2. Circe
3. Dr. Psycho
4. .
5. .
6. .
7. .
8. .
9. .
10. .
11. .
12. Ares

I never felt comfortable with Ares being a major nemesis for Diana. If that was the case then there are many other Gods you could lump into the list.

Cheetah and Dr Psycho were always on an even keel as arches in my eyes. Though I suppose Cheeta is the more iconic/recognizable one, particularly in recent years.

I never much cared for Ares. Always thought Hercules was a much better nemesis to Wonder Woman and the Amazons in general.

Cheetah is definitely Wonder Woman's arch-enemy, but honestly, she's always seemed underwhelming for some reason. I would prefer Circe but once again, Cheetah historically has been Diana's main foil.

but thats what im saying, if we judge a hero by her villains, doesn´t ares make more sense as dianas nemisis.

@jphulk26: @4_color_image: The point i´m trying to make guys, is not who is. I know Cheetah is and she´s a great villain, I´ve seen some great work with her, but Ares is far cooler. people are complaining about ww villains, but she´s got great ones the problem is writers don´t use them. everyone thinks ww comics fail cause of her. they don´t, she´s fine. Again rucka and simone did afine job of making her relatble, but again so much work is being done on her when it seems obvious to me she isn´t the problem. its her villain continuity. every villain of hers who is trully great like ares, you see them once and just like that their gone. ares is perfect right now to get people into ww again. its exactly what she needs. he could be as good as lex or joker, if they worked on him. why don´t they?

@jphulk26: I have never thought Ares was cool, he always seemed like a bad Skeletor or D&D rip off to me (Though I do like the current incarnation of him). Cheetah, Circe, Dr. Psycho, Dr. Poison, Silver Swan, Deva... all if handled correctly could be power housed just like Joker or Lex or Grodd or Brainiac. The problem is not Diana's Rogies but instead too many writers do not know how to handle Diana let alone her rouges. Johns & Rucka, did a great job with Cheetah when Flash & Wonder Woman crossed over & I hope he does the same now that she is fighting the Justice League. Sadly I had high hopes for Gail but instead of elevating Diana's rogues Gail tried to replace them with new villians.

Cheetah is full on Beast Mode. Ares is alright but WW's true nemesis is Cheetah. Been that way since the cheesy Superfriends era, maybe longer.

@4_color_image: gail simone wonder woman is the most powerful wonder woman version,the only bad thing is that she didn't develop wonder woman's rogue gallery,as yiu said she used new villans instead.

I really like Circe for the top spot as Wonder Woman's archenemy. Her cunning, power and unpredictability are a unique blend that make her practically indomitable. If she could be compared to other top notch villains the closest I could come to would be a mixture of Lex Luthor & The Joker yet completely original in her design of personality and overall character. Though this character has had less than 200 appearances (according to comic vine) I see her as the ultimate threat to Wonder Woman's everything and thus sets her far and above the rest ad Wonder Woman's Archenemy.

While I like Cheetah a lot, I feel a little overwhelmed with the thought of her Super Friends incarnation which was a little more than a device to have someone for Wonder Woman to fight in some of those episodes. She feels like more of a secondary foe like Scorpion to Spider-Man, ZZZAX to The Hulk or Metallo to Superman than a the top tier threat that Circe can embody. She's had a lot of different looks over the years in the attempt to make her more intimidating, dangerous or appealing but it's hard to dress that up as badass when she's just so darn cuddly.

Aries is a little tricky for me because, until this latest incarnation of Diana, Wonder Woman is bound to respect him as a higher power and to defy his will was something that she had to struggle with sometimes turning to others in the pantheon to unseat his schemes, or diplomatically request that he stop what he was doing before going to blows if she could gain an audience with him. He's somehow less of an archenemy and more of a family or tribal bad boy that needs to be disciplined every now and again. But that's my personal opinion, to place the label of villainy on a God doesn't seem right with me. Villainy is a purely terrestrial attribute and a god is above that, in my mind, and would consider Wonder Woman and any other human beneath the reward of his attention. Not that this is how he's ever been written, just my view on the status of "GOD" in relation to terrestrial follower.

Clearly this is not the case in the Wonder Woman animated movie. Just my thoughts though.

I really liked Genocide in a Doomsday kind of way and would be interested in seeing that character be reintroduced in this new continuity to test Wonder Woman's indomitable will against her indomitable force in epic fisticuffs!

Ares(as Mars)was her first villain really.I like the Cheetah more .She is seen probably as Dianas arch enemy and it works.Especially the way she was handled the last few years(her Luthor and Joker as the evil trinity).Before the Perez reboot she was cool,but she wsn't enough for me to take her seriously but after the reboot she rocked.

@Press Oblivion: I have to say I´m really really surprised by everyones post. Is it not clear to people that WW´s ultimate foil 1) should be a man and 2) someone fighting for peace, should have the god of war as their archenemy.

I really think if the character has any chance in the main stream, and if we want to see some of the villains like Cheetah done justice in future, we need more Ares. He give credibility to Diana as a character and what she´s trully fighting for. He was awesome in Perez´s version, everytime I see him he does something cool in the comics, and to be fair to the person who said he´s like Skeletor, again his appearances as the main villain were so long ago that of course it seems antiquated now, but that´s exectly why he needs developing by modern characters. He could work behind the scenes as a superpowerful arms dealer, or funding rogue regimes, genocidal dictators. It just makes alot of sense, and his credibility as it grows will bring alot of attention to WW if addressed right. I think Rucka had a great idea in the way he treated Diana and how he depicted her mission in Mans world, but he missed that smoking gun, that real threat or action that would push his series over the edge. that smoking gun for me is Ares. he´s basically the only WW villain that non-wonder woman fans actually enjoy. Gail killed him just as he was getting good. it´s a real pitty.

how is Ares a skeletor rip off? one his powers are far cooler, two i´m viewing him, from the perspective of as ww is getting more support for media representations, who would be the villain that would give her most credibility, without straying to far from the source material. there is only one. for too long have writers made him some clown playing with the other gods. he needs to get back to what he does best, cause conflict for the sake of it. that´s abad ass motive for a villain if i´ve ever heard of one. it´s simple, it´s clear, and (wonder woman needs a little clarity right now) there is no other major comic book villain who has that specific goal as his modus operandi. it´s either world domination or bettering the superhero intellectually, etc. No one just has a view to kill and maim, destroy and spread hate for the sake of it, with no other goal in mind. that´s fucking cool, and it would be clearly something WW couldn´t abide by, giving her mission a clear purpose. Other villains like Cheetah, don´t give her that clarity. what is cheetahs motivation, other than a fight with WW. batman fights chaos, that´s why the joker embodies all his villains, becoming his archenemy, because he represents and defines what Batman is fighting. Superman fights corruption, he fights for justice, hence lex embodies the spirit of Supermans greatest foes again giving superman a clear objective. WW, has a clear objective, to fight hatred, intolerance, and the powers divide humanity into enemies of one another, she fights for peace, but no one uses the obvious villains, who would best emphasise those qualities in her. I´m not saying drop Cheetah, I like her, but for WW future legacy I think we really need Ares to start taking a bit more of the spotlight.

Circe as well, I love her, but again she isn´t the real foil, she cannot define WW, and give her a clarity of purpose, the way Ares does.

I say Cheetah and Circe are the top contenders for Wonder Woman's arch foe. I never really liked ares that much anyway.

@Press Oblivion: Genocide to me was more Bizarro and less Doomsday.

I think Circe has more potential. Immortal, magical powers and a certified nutcase. I would like to see a Circe that is not only a powerful sorceress, but also has physical parity with Diana or close enough to make her dangerous even without magic. She is WW's foe because she was made to rule and control people.

Cheetah should be another character that should match or exceed WW in matters such as speed and have the potential to cut WW to pieces with her claws. She is jealous of WW and wants power - any power - to match her.

Genocide has great potential as a foe. She could replace the oh-so-obvious Ares, growing stronger with each injustice and evil deed done. She's the incarnation of pure evil.

Circe would represent hubris and lust for power, Cheetah is envy and jealousy, while Genocide represents hate and suffering. Dr Psycho would be about lies and deception. By making them characters that oppose Diana's own philosophy, you get more integrated characters. It would also be a good idea to tie Circe into the early history of the Amazons, she may be one of the founders, alongside Hyppolita and Antiope, and then banished.

how about circe?

@jphulk26 said:

batman fights chaos, that´s why the joker embodies all his villains, becoming his archenemy, because he represents and defines what Batman is fighting. Superman fights corruption, he fights for justice, hence lex embodies the spirit of Supermans greatest foes again giving superman a clear objective. WW, has a clear objective, to fight hatred, intolerance, and the powers divide humanity into enemies of one another, she fights for peace, but no one uses the obvious villains, who would best emphasise those qualities in her. I´m not saying drop Cheetah, I like her, but for WW future legacy I think we really need Ares to start taking a bit more of the spotlight.

Circe as well, I love her, but again she isn´t the real foil, she cannot define WW, and give her a clarity of purpose, the way Ares does.

Sold! I think this is a very poignant argument for Ares case and I can't think of one thing to refute what you've said in any other Villain's favor.

My only contention with this idea is that the gods are beyond the reach of everyone but gods and qualify as a category separate from the rest. Ares is to Wonder Woman as Darksied is to Superman as Ra's Al Ghul is to Batman, all antagonists that stand far above their counterparts in experience, knowledge and power. Adversaries like this should not be defeated without irreparable damage to the hero challenging them, if not egregious loss of life. I guess I'm saying that stories featuring these characters should be few and far between because they should be that epic and devastating. With Circe, Luthor and Joker the heroes say I can handle this . . . with Ares, Darksied and Ra's, the heroes clench their sphincters and hope beyond desperation that their People, City, or Planet can survive the visitation. Perhaps these antagonists are something more than just archenemies, they strike fear in the fearless (not fear for their own lives but peripherally) and their potential to perform the impossible is daunting, even panicking.

I'm not challenging your ranking of Ares but suggesting that you elevate his status from Archenemy to SPHINCTER-CLENCHED Threat Level.

Just my feeling.

@herrweis said:

@Press Oblivion: Genocide to me was more Bizarro and less Doomsday.

I can subscribe to that as well. There's just a sinister purity to the character of Genocide that could really spell the end of Diana in an epic "Death of Wonder Woman" event battle to end them all...

@kapitein_zeppos said:

I think Circe has more potential. Immortal, magical powers and a certified nutcase. I would like to see a Circe that is not only a powerful sorceress, but also has physical parity with Diana or close enough to make her dangerous even without magic. She is WW's foe because she was made to rule and control people.

Cheetah should be another character that should match or exceed WW in matters such as speed and have the potential to cut WW to pieces with her claws. She is jealous of WW and wants power - any power - to match her.

Genocide has great potential as a foe. She could replace the oh-so-obvious Ares, growing stronger with each injustice and evil deed done. She's the incarnation of pure evil.

Circe would represent hubris and lust for power, Cheetah is envy and jealousy, while Genocide represents hate and suffering. Dr Psycho would be about lies and deception. By making them characters that oppose Diana's own philosophy, you get more integrated characters. It would also be a good idea to tie Circe into the early history of the Amazons, she may be one of the founders, alongside Hyppolita and Antiope, and then banished.

I like the ideas that you have here and would be interested in reading this in the Wonder Woman title.

@kapitein_zeppos: I just don´t buy it. As much as I like Circe and Cheetah, I don´t think they have the charisma of Ares. He really can be menacing when written well. He also has much more real world potential, that could really have some impact. the idea of him as a smooth arms dealer, who turns out to be a super powerful God like in the JL cartoon was awesome. Selling bot sides weapons, just to fan the flames of hate as WW says in the WW animated movie. It´s just an interesting character to write, they need to flesh him out more, make him even more suave, but at the same time even more sinister. I see him bathing in the blood of innocents, chuckling at genocides, drinking wine that is actually the blood of helpless victims caught up in the strife he creates. Sorry to be so graphic, but that´s who I see. A kind of Hannibal Lector God, with a dark edge, that mix between decadence and savagery. I think that would be equally as compelling as The Joker, and far more compelling than Circe. Although as I said, I think Circe and Cheetah are awesome, but WW needs focus right now, and a villain that packs a punch, and who there is no doubt is a major threat to her and all she represents.

I think Dr. Poison could make a really awesome villain as well. I´ll say one thing as well Gail Simone´s addition to WW rogues gallery is fucking brilliant. Check out Alkyone. she´s so fucking good, and a villain that is really relatable but very sick.

@Press Oblivion: Yeah, I don´t get some of these guys. It´s not like I´m saying that I don´t like Cheetah or Circe, but they just haven´t been enough. No matter how cool you write them, and I especially like some recent takes on Cheetah, she remains really a physical threat. She doesn´t get to the core of the character the way Ares has. Even when he´s not written that well, something just goes well between the two of them. They have great chemistry, and I love the way he´s portrayed, as this sophisticated, but cruel and barbaric force of nature. As I said before, there´s something of the Hannibal Lecter in him. I understand the Gods are untouchable in some sense, but they could always tweek that a bit. because when ever Ares gets on the wrong side of WW, somehow it just works. I think you´re right as well, just a few graphic novels. Especially a origin one, where they update Ares for the modern world, I think would work wonders (no pun intended) for her books.

I haven't read Wonder Woman 13 yet but I understand that War (Ares) is in the story. Are you objecting to the portrayal of War or the title when you say that Wonder Woman needs focus?

I have a problem with Ares as the "obvious villain". In Greek myth, Ares represented the "Unpleasant side" of warfare, while Athena was about strategy and skill in battle. One way to make Ares more interesting beyond being just another powerful nasty, is to make Ares the victim of the changes in warfare rather than the progenitor. In Ancient times Ares would indeed represent violence and slaughter, but he would still retain that heroic side of man to man combat, all this eroded over the centuries with total warfare and mass destruction. So Ares would be far more violent and destructive than he ever was and still aware of his former glory. Unlike the animated Ares which grows stronger because wars are now more destructive than ever, Ares would be more violent and less in control. Not in a Hulk-like fashion but in his way of dealing with the world. Whereas ancient Ares would have jumped into the fray and kicked ass, the modern Ares is much, much darker, burdened by mass murder, genocide, and the impersonality of modern combat with long range weapons and drones.

By making Ares a walking nuclear war wherever he goes, he'd be suitable as a major villain, worthy of his own event series. Ares would still carry ancient weapons, but he no longer uses them, using far more destructive powers to raze cities, obliterate his foes with explosive power and it would be something he loathes, yearning for the challenges of old. He would be grim, irritable, dangerous and impossible to defeat. The fact that Ares is a God and fully sentient, aware of what he has become makes him more compelling and nuanced. He is a destructive force, but he does not generate it, he is like all people in war just as much a victim ...

If sparingly used Ares could make an interesting villain, one that is almost impossible to be defeated directly (think JLA and others charging in, only to have their asses handed to them.) and requires WW to tackle the reason why Ares is involved, to defeat Ares, WW would need to end the war that draws and feeds Ares, she should try and stop the hate and suffering that warps Ares into a true terror. WW could challenge Ares in direct combat and it would be skill and tactics against brute power and destruction, humanity and compassion against hate and suffering ...

Interesting, perhaps comic fans would come out for Ares after and epic event like that.

Ares and Cheeta are both at the top. Circe is at 2

Ares is a GOD. Need I say more!

Cheetah is certainly the best.

@kapitein_zeppos: thank you brilliant point. something like that, a graphic novel in that form would be awesome.

I wouldn't mind a graphic novel about Ares. There's something very alluring about those Greek mythological characters. My vote goes to Circe... nothing like two powerful girls going toe to toe... one a skilled combatant (and Amazonian Princess warrior) and the other a powerful sorceress... makes a good story every time..

Cheetah. She is the most original and recognizable.

Ares is public domain. Just like and other deity taken from mythology.

Cheetah IMO is her arch-enemy, followed by Circe. Just "suits" her better.

According to Wonder Woman 0 War was looking to pass on his charge to Diana, training her and molding her for at time when she would inherit his duties.

This doesn't sound like an archenemy to me . . . or does it?

Circe should be WW main foe. Their history is very tied up together and the witch has powers more than enough to give WW a terrible time, but knowing how DC plays it, Circe ended up like Superman's Zod and had a mere mortal transformed into a powerful Cheetah to become Diana's arch nemesis.

@Goddessa said:

Circe should be WW main foe. Their history is very tied up together and the with has powers more than enough to give WW a terrible time,

I support this fully.

Also my perspective on Gods are that they can only have another god as an archenemy. Just me though.

@Press Oblivion: WW and Cheetah is a mismatch. Even with all of Cheetah's powers and abilities, you know at the end of the day she'll get her ass whooped. Circe on the other hand, especially if written well, can give Diana permanent damage after a fight, and even if she loses, you know she'll be back more unpredictable and more powerful. She was main antagonist in the War of The Gods saga, she managed to shake the DCU. Cheetah is nowhere near that level.

@Goddessa said:

@Press Oblivion: WW and Cheetah is a mismatch. Even with all of Cheetah's powers and abilities, you know at the end of the day she'll get her ass whooped.

I'm not sure if you read Justice League 13 & 14 but I don't think Cheetah is as woopable as she may have been in the past. She kept the entire League at bay and only let herself get captured at the end. She's pretty formidable these days. @gokuwarrior: posted a battle scenario with Cheetah to which I gave my version of the battle. Here's the link if you have time to check it out: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/cheetahavatar-of-a-god-and-giganta-vs-ms-marvel-and-she-hulk/732544/

@Goddessasaid:

Circe on the other hand, especially if written well, can give Diana permanent damage after a fight, and even if she loses, you know she'll be back more unpredictable and more powerful. She was main antagonist in the War of The Gods saga, she managed to shake the DCU. Cheetah is nowhere near that level.

Agreed.

Yes I have JL 13 and 14 and I know she is formidable, but a writer can only do so much with her, I was actually happy she lasted for 2 issues. Don't get me wrong she's my favourite WW villain but I just don't see her matching it with Diana in the long haul :)

I would think it's obvious:

@Press Oblivion:

"According to Wonder Woman 0 War was looking to pass on his charge to Diana, training her and molding her for at time when she would inherit his duties.

This doesn't sound like an archenemy to me . . . or does it?"

It sounds to me Ares is becoming WW's Ra's.

@kapitein_zeppos said:

I have a problem with Ares as the "obvious villain". In Greek myth, Ares represented the "Unpleasant side" of warfare, while Athena was about strategy and skill in battle. One way to make Ares more interesting beyond being just another powerful nasty, is to make Ares the victim of the changes in warfare rather than the progenitor. In Ancient times Ares would indeed represent violence and slaughter, but he would still retain that heroic side of man to man combat, all this eroded over the centuries with total warfare and mass destruction. So Ares would be far more violent and destructive than he ever was and still aware of his former glory. Unlike the animated Ares which grows stronger because wars are now more destructive than ever, Ares would be more violent and less in control. Not in a Hulk-like fashion but in his way of dealing with the world. Whereas ancient Ares would have jumped into the fray and kicked ass, the modern Ares is much, much darker, burdened by mass murder, genocide, and the impersonality of modern combat with long range weapons and drones.

By making Ares a walking nuclear war wherever he goes, he'd be suitable as a major villain, worthy of his own event series. Ares would still carry ancient weapons, but he no longer uses them, using far more destructive powers to raze cities, obliterate his foes with explosive power and it would be something he loathes, yearning for the challenges of old. He would be grim, irritable, dangerous and impossible to defeat. The fact that Ares is a God and fully sentient, aware of what he has become makes him more compelling and nuanced. He is a destructive force, but he does not generate it, he is like all people in war just as much a victim ...

If sparingly used Ares could make an interesting villain, one that is almost impossible to be defeated directly (think JLA and others charging in, only to have their asses handed to them.) and requires WW to tackle the reason why Ares is involved, to defeat Ares, WW would need to end the war that draws and feeds Ares, she should try and stop the hate and suffering that warps Ares into a true terror. WW could challenge Ares in direct combat and it would be skill and tactics against brute power and destruction, humanity and compassion against hate and suffering ...

This needs to happen.

Ares to me represents everything that Wonder Woman is against, cheetah represents her dark inhibitions in other words her inner demons and Circe is the evil Wonder Woman could become if she gave in to her temptations and not keep them in check. The best villains are those that reflect the hero in one way or another. that's why batman has the best rogues gallery of any hero, they reflect either what he's against, what he could become or his inner demon he keeps in check. Wonder Woman's best villains reflect her in a way that others just don't.

@Skewer said:

Ares to me represents everything that Wonder Woman is against, cheetah represents her dark inhibitions in other words her inner demons and Circe is the evil Wonder Woman could become if she gave in to her temptations and not keep them in check. The best villains are those that reflect the hero in one way or another. Wonder Woman's best villains reflect her in a way that others just don't.

I can agree with this statement.

@darkman61288 said:

@Press Oblivion:

"According to Wonder Woman 0 War was looking to pass on his charge to Diana, training her and molding her for at time when she would inherit his duties.

This doesn't sound like an archenemy to me . . . or does it?"

It sounds to me Ares is becoming WW's Ra's.

It was brought up that there was no evidence that Zeus is really Wonder Woman's father. After reading Wonder Woman 0 the thought occurred to me that perhaps Zeus isn't her father at all but Ares. . . . long shot I know.

@Goddessa: @Press Oblivion: Yep absolutely agree with Circe; I´ve always liked her. Although to me I still think Ares should at least be one of her Archenemies, if I could have an early christmas present,

It would be DC doing 4 stories including an origin story of Diana which are self-contained and have her fighting one of her major villains in each.

I would add:

1. Dr. Psycho

2. Ares (For the origin story) which could feature Genocide.

3. Circe

4. Alkyone.

Just modern takes on them, that are for a slightly more mature audience, so that people can have an idea of what each of these villains are capable of and the threat they present.

As i said a Superhero is half the story, what you need to really sell a comic book is iconic villains.

Even though Ares is used sparingly I'd have to go with him. The enemy of peace is war. Just because he isn't there doesn't mean he isn't influencing all the wars she's fighting to stop.

Then Circe and Cheetah I'd say are tied.

Both Ares and Cheetah started in the golden age but Ares has always been a greater threat. In the golden age, Cheetah was just in the same level as Giganta, Dr Poison. In the silver age and bronze age, Cheetah was just in the same level as Angle Man, Dr Psycho, Dr Cyber, Silver Swan. Post Coie, many villains were bigger threats such as Circe, White Magician, Veronica Cale, Devastation. In the New 52, the arch villains tend to be related to the heroes so it looks like Ares and other greek gods are being prepared as the main villains for Wonder Woman. In the bronze age, the arch villain was considered to be Cheetah, and for Flash it was Captain Cold. In the New 52, both Cheetah and Captain Cold don't look like big threats. In Flash, New 52, Grodd and Zoom are the bigger threats.

I want Circe to be number 1

@jphulk26: I am there with you. Ares no doubt is one of her arch-enemies, as I've said before, for me he is Diana's equivalent to Superman's Darkseid, so he is definitely a major threat. I'm only leaning towards Circe for the fact that she, aside from taking Diana head on as a solo villain, she is also very capable when joining a villain team, like an injustice league. Like Darkseid, I don't see Ares joining a villain team for the reason he doesn't need to because he is primarily a god. He can muster enough minions that can be a threat to the whole league itself.