Yes, under BATMAN editors, which is an important detail.

@outside_85: Not like DCs intentions are important in the feats-are-everything-battleforums which are the only thing we are arguing about.

Is you who is going on about how it's the fights when she gets lowballed thats worth more than the others.

There is a reason why people who know what they are talking about don't give two shits about how Batman has on two occasions taken down Cheetah, because they know it's just bad writing. It is the same thing about Wonder Woman.

Nope, I'm saying she has no feats of that level beyond fighting people with feats on that level, but also has trouble fighting people below that level. I have yet to see scans of feats that put her at Superman level beyond those of fighting superman. Her fights with weaker characters don't suggest she is at that level, her fights with stronger characters don't suggest she is at that level, her none combat feats don't suggest she is at that level. Character statements suggest she is at that level if brought up in the exact context, but if it is about another topic she is generally considered weaker.

I think recently DC has finally begun bringing WW up to the level she should be. She's getting her own film. She's appearing in Batman v Superman, she was featured prominently in the Amazo arc. She will be the focus and the central character of the Darkseid war, a storyline that practically every event has been building towards, Geoff John's said Wonder Woman is the future of the JL in a recent interview. She's going to get a new comic, and she recently traded blows equally with a bloodlusted Superman while wearing her bracelets, in a story featuring one of her classic villains.

SPOILER EVERYONE PROBS KNOWS.

In other news surrounding DCs Trinity, Batman died and Superman lost his powers. I think us WW fans should enjoy this time with our still alive and full-powered heroine.

What comic was that with the blood-lusted supes, featuring one of her major villains? Out of interest.

I find it so amusing that now of all times, when the soul of WW has been completely ripped out the pages of most her comic runs (accept sensation comics/ which is not mind blowing storytelling either) that now we´re finally getting ww in movies and becoming front and centre again. It´s annoying and probably is even more annoying for fans who´ve been waiting alot longer for a wonder woman movie than I have, that they may be force to have to settle for Hercules Woman instead. Oh well.

The moment DC fans made her out to be nothing more than tug a war romance between Superman and Batman and the fact the Wonder Woman fanbase is consistent of New52. Shame to she was one my favorites and the New52 fans ruin her with their ignorance.

WAR ROMANCE? Wonder Woman should stay girlfriend of Superman

Batman and had in the past(pre-flashpoint).. and already has Catwoman and has had other lovers as Talia .. already has enough... he even one child.

Indeed we did. :).

xoxo, -Saint Sophie

Look, what you are doing there is saying no feats in the history of comics are valid because every single hero and villain are written inconsistently in terms of power. Like I said before: Superman can struggle with just human Lex Luthor and the next he can be beating down Darkseid. We've seen Batman take on and win against both Darkseid and Superman, yet he continues to be challenged by a lunatic in clown makeup.

She is considered weaker by people who dont know what they are talking about, and usually it's made by people who are backing the other party.

@outside_85 said:

Thats a pretty weak case to say she beats lets say Hulk or Thor, both have fought and beaten Gladiator and other planetbusters, one has shaken the entire planet as a side effect of his battle, one has lifted a snake as big as a planet one held billion ton mountain. Wonder Woman fought Superman and pulled a tree from the ground ones, slammed someone through a car, created a ripple in the ground... They are consistently capable of fighting people with superspeed, Wonder Woman consistently isn't much faster than peak human opponents.

Saying she beat one opponent with higher feats, but struggles against weaker people all the time is a pretty weak case to make that she wins these fights.

Consistently isn't much faster than peak human opponents? I wish you could see the look on my face.

one of the problems with this ofc is that you are basing your understanding of the character off feats you've seen in scans in the battle forum as you dont read her comics nor do you seem to know her character much at all. the battle forums are 1. full of bias 2. and people that don't know anything about her character since they have a very limited frame of reference to go off of as they dont read her comics or follow her

@somayareece: Show me how she is faster than them all the time. Batman, Katana, Frankenstein, Deathstroke, who isn't that far above, haven't seen much of speed edge employed against these opponents.

@willienotwilliam: And still I am only arguing about the battle forums.

It's a pretty weak case you are putting forwards when all you can do is reference feats that are some 30+ years old while the companies have generally moved on to curb such things in Marvel's case and beefed up in Diana's. So your consistency is quite frankly non-existent. Wonder Woman is consistently fast enough to block bullets and lasers, and has been so since the 1940'ties. Or are you going to claim Hulk is consitently no stronger than a python.

When it's the case for everyone, no it isn't, because that's the dynamics of a battle forum debate. If you support a character, you select their good feats, the opponents take the poor ones.

@outside_85: Shaking the planet was a month ago. Holding a mountain up is old, holding an plantesized celestial up is not quite as old. Moon Knight is consistently fast enough to block bullets. Cassandra Cain outruns bullets, and isn't even considered a metahuman.

which is the problem the point of the thread is "how she is underrated" and you are arguing about the battle forum which consists of people with little WW knowledge using their limited and biased info to frame ww through context less scans and underscoring her ability based off those scans

@willienotwilliam: I replied to outside_85, who said it after seeing her get lowballed on the battleforums. My reply was you can't blame anyone when there never was a feat beyond fought character x for her.

Cassandra Cain can also read body language so she can move before the trigger is pulled and she can not do it with multiple shooters. This however is consistent for Diana:

And my reply to your reply is: Yes, I sure as hell can blame people for being ignorant, and I will.

@stahlflamme:and my reply to this is how can anyone on those forums(or you) even know if you don't read WW material? They don't know enough of her feats or how strong she is if they don't keep up with her. those feats you see on battle forums are selective and skewed towards the opinion of the person that posted it. When you take that and then realize that its pretty common that a superhero's powers fluctuate depending on the writer and the need for the story then obviously the point im trying to make is that your opinions that are based in scans you see on the battle forums are heavily skewed in one direction(that does not take account the full context of the feats presented in forums), so it is not fair to say that WW has no feats that put her on par with xyz and instead you should actually go read her material/learn her history for yourself so that you can get a more objective view of WW's strength.

Way to be grown up. Good for you. But how do you know? Perhaps you could change my mind. I won´t be offended by money.

@outside_85 said:

@stahlflamme said:

@outside_85: Shaking the planet was a month ago. Holding a mountain up is old, holding an plantesized celestial up is not quite as old. Moon Knight is consistently fast enough to block bullets. Cassandra Cain outruns bullets, and isn't even considered a metahuman.

Cassandra Cain can also read body language so she can move before the trigger is pulled and she can not do it with multiple shooters. This however is consistent for Diana:

@stahlflamme said:

@willienotwilliam: I replied to outside_85, who said it after seeing her get lowballed on the battleforums. My reply was you can't blame anyone when there never was a feat beyond fought character x for her.

And my reply to your reply is: Yes, I sure as hell can blame people for being ignorant, and I will.

So, that speed has never given her an edge over people who can't do it. You're argumentation sounds about as valid as that of DBZ fans.

Those are the scans in her favor. The only argument ever that she can beat another character is she fought Superman. Maybe there are no WW fans on the battleforum I don't know.

Which people are you referring to?

And don't you dare compare me to DBZ fans!

i think the biggest problem is with the way the forum operates itself. I mean most of the battles don't really give much but names and very little background info, esp not enough to merit putting WW vs BM or something like that in the first place because under very seldom circumstances would they really have to fight eachother(or want to). Not to mention most of the people are arguing about characters they dont have any clue about. They read a scan another person posts and then argue from that but they dont know the story that scan was created in or who even wrote that comic or what comic it came from most of the time. When you add that to the fact that, outside of characters being obviously grouped in certain classes, there is no definitive power ranking that you can come up with to objectively justify character a over character b then you just get boring matches that are going to end with the majority votes going towards which ever character is more liked/known/etc. And, I can definitely tell you WW is not among those characters for a good percentage of CV users for various reasons, one of which is they dont actually read any of her stuff. So, thats why Im stressing that if you truly want to know where people are coming from or want to debunk what you might see as bias for WW(if you read her stuff and still disagree with WW fans) you have to read some of her stuff and learn some of the history behind the character because battle forums are the worst place to learn about a character

@willienotwilliam: Well, I never said the battleforum isn't full of idiots and has a shit load of problems in both its rules and how it works. Characters are getting lowballed there, for whom a better case has been made than I've ever seen for Wonder Woman. Usually different users are saying how both characters stomp or win effortlessly and never back it up with anything.

Good, so you mention three people any sane person with the smallest amount of knowledge of Wonder Woman would know would be ripped apart in an instant if she wanted to.

I'm not narrowminded.

@jphulk26: lool hell no

Some people would disagree.

And those morons can go to hell for all I care.

Right on! Who cares what others think?

@stahlflamme: outside_85's point was that inconsistency in power levels is hardly a problem exclusive to Wonder Woman. See for instance this fight between Thor and a Venom powered Superior Spider-Man

You could say that this was a b.s display of the Odinson getting jobbed to shill a writer's pet and I'd certainly agree with you. Now if you can accept this is not an accurate showing of Thor's performance in battle, why is it so hard for you to accept that getting kicked in the stomach by Batman and going down is not an accurate portrayal of Diana's power?

@somayareece:Anyone who posts in a treat about a character being underrated. That is clearly caring about other peoples opinion.

@agent_z:Its not the Batman part that lets me say this, that clearly shouldn't happen, its superhuman characters with far below Supermanlevel stats taking her on one-on-one.

@agent41:I've never said she isn't a powerhouse I said the battleforums never made a good case for it, because all I've ever seen there a combat feats against Superman, which isn't worth much if she does considerably worse against anyone weaker than him. I don't consider the battleforums a very reliable source, mind you.

As it appears other feats do exist, though some seemed rather dated, and make me wonder why the hell nobody ever brought them up.

@agent41: That is true but Marvel is doing a better job at promoting Black Widow than DC is at promoting Wonder Woman which is somewhat sad.

When she one shotted 4 planets

@stahlflamme: What superhuman characters below her are you talking about specifically? And remember this isn't limited to her either.

@selfproclaimed:I said, "Since" 1990.

@agent41: I agree with you. Wonder Woman is far better character than Black Widow, but what I was trying to say is that Black Widow's popularity is far more than Wonder Woman now, at least, I believe so. And let's be honest Scarlett J. is far better actor than Gal Gadot and even in looks too(well, that's subjective). I really hope Wonder Woman's movie, which releases in 2017, makes lots of money, and most importantly be great or good, at least.

@jphulk26: It was Superman/Wonder Woman #17. The main villain was Circe, who mind-controlled Superman to attack WW. That entire arc was WW focused.

The sad thing is that Diana, like many others, are measured by their villains... and sadly not many (writers included) consider Diana's villains to be on this level, which many of them are:

@somayareece: When i saw Wonder Woman only had ongoing solo series and Superman and Batman has at least more than one. Yes, i know that she has Sensation Comics now as well. Plus the others apperances on other type of media.

@vitalius: I would love to see her in more crossover comics. I think her and Flash should do a World's Finest series together.

@somayareece: I would like to see her crossing with other tittles but in way that makes sense and it is necessary to the plot,unlike not like Batman or Superman because they know it sells. That would be cool seeing with The Flash, but for me i would like see teaming up with Aquaman,Black Canary, Hawkwoman. Mera, Zatanna, Vixen or even Amethyst as World´s Finest.