What is Wonder Woman greatest Fear

#1 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1190 posts) - - Show Bio

im just wondering if she afraid anything?

art by Julian Lopez

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#2 Posted by batmannflash (6187 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure. Probably something psychological, though. Like being hated by the Amazons and not accepted by the world. In Kingdom Come, the Amazons felt that she failed as Wonder Woman. In Wonder Woman: Spirit of Truth, she sort of fears that mankind was scared of her and didn't want her help. Those are just guesses. I doubt that she fears of heights or the dark. She's a fearless warrior, so the only logical fears she would have would be based on relationships and lost of love.

#3 Edited by drgnx (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

Her friends well-being?

#4 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

Its simple: to fall in Love for a man. She is an Amazon, she is not suppose to love any man, or even show Love, except for combat & Battle.

#5 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles said:

Its simple: to fall in Love for a man. She is an Amazon, she is not suppose to love any man, or even show Love, except for combat & Battle.

that is the answer of someone that doesn't know the character,you are trapped with her new JL version i guess,wonder woman doesn't hate men,she doesn't hate anyone,she is a powerful warrior but also comppasionate and kind like a devoted mother,that is the concept from her creator marston and that's the way she has been written most of the time in her 72 years of career.

#6 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1190 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by JeanRalphio (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd honestly probably would have to say: Agent Coulson

#8 Posted by The Stegman (23014 posts) - - Show Bio

Wearing pants.

#9 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on how we're defining fear. I'm sure she feels fear a lot - it's not the lack of fear that makes her (or anyone) heroic - it's the courage to overcome that fear. I'm betting that facing off against the God of War is pretty terrifying, but she has the courage to do it without hesitation anyway.

#11 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1190 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: i agree but has Diana ever shown this fear and the ability to over come it in comic? or are you just assuming this is was happens when she fighting

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#12 Edited by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder woman's most greatest fear?: its simple: to fall in love for a man, and to be defeated by a man.

#13 Posted by Akindoodle (972 posts) - - Show Bio

Failure, I guess. She's a bit of an over achiever and over achievers hate to fail. At anything. No, I'm not taking into account Johns' version but everybody else's, Azzarello's included. She's afraid to fail her people, the world, family, herself. She'd probably see it as a sign of weakness

She's afraid of being weak and failing? That's a valid fear, right?

#14 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

Who drew that pic? They deserve a medal

#15 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1190 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@darknightspideyfanboy: She has from time to time in the form of wide, fearful eyes and general facial expression (I'm thinking of the first encounter with Circe in the Perez run, but I'm sure there are other such examples). I don't know that it's ever been something that she's really verbalized much, though.

@akindoodle: You hit the nail right on the head.

#17 Edited by dshipp17 (958 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle said:

Failure, I guess. She's a bit of an over achiever and over achievers hate to fail. At anything. No, I'm not taking into account Johns' version but everybody else's, Azzarello's included. She's afraid to fail her people, the world, family, herself. She'd probably see it as a sign of weakness

She's afraid of being weak and failing? That's a valid fear, right?

I agree, she's probably afraid of failure; this was revealed in her battle with Genocide, during Gail Simone's run. Messner-Loebs really put things to the test with the Taco Wiz test; I think this is the type of adversity that could break Wonder Woman, just like most tough guys (and girls); it takes a special type and long periods of these types of adversities to test someone. Pre-crisis, she was afraid of losing Steve Trevor but was forced to conquer that fear, since he was lost so many times. Otherwise, Wonder Woman is one of those cases where she needs to learn fear through an opponent who not only wants to win, but wants to break the spirit; I'm one of those types who likes to break my opponent's spirit, when I really consider that person my enemy; however, it would take some time to break Wonder Woman, as she's quite brazen; in the New 52, Hades had the right idea but abandoned the strategy far too soon for some reason.

#18 Edited by Akindoodle (972 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

Your suggestions are better then what they gave her in the old cartoons. Her fear in that time was the sky is falling.

#20 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1190 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: cool more reason to check her comic b4 the new 52 right now me and some friends are saving money to get the past trade right now Perez,Rucka,and Simone run are top on my list so glad im done getting the past stuff for batman and superman

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#21 Posted by Outside_85 (8094 posts) - - Show Bio

I assume it's fear for the lives of her friends and colleagues. That at least was the reason she beat most of them up and sent them into orbit in JLA: A League of One.

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#22 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6106 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

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#23 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17: @dmessmer: Yay! I got the answer!

What's really amazing is that you got @dshipp17 and I to agree on something.

Then he went and ruined it by saying that Hades attempt to rape Wonder Woman was "the right idea."

#24 Edited by dshipp17 (958 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@akindoodle said:

@dshipp17: @dmessmer: Yay! I got the answer!

What's really amazing is that you got @dshipp17 and I to agree on something.

Then he went and ruined it by saying that Hades attempt to rape Wonder Woman was "the right idea."

Are you stupid or something? That's not something that I said at all and people can read my post; the word's rape and the right thing to do do not appear in my post or isn't anything even remotely implied; don't embezzle and defame anything that I say like that again; I don't care what type of mating dance you keep playing in your mind. You're even accusing the poster of agreeing with such a distorted phrase and embezzling Azzarello for writing or conceiving of such a story. Your mind is permanently in the gutter and you've been in your mating dance so long that you can't even tell or separate the reality of men from your fantasy about men; you can't even seem to tell you're a man or have such self hate with being a man, merely because you couldn't keep up with being a male child and got tossed to the side as a male reject by your school peers or your male peers at some point along the way. You're really living up to the concept of a pitiful peon.

#25 Edited by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17: Hades was trying to rape her (or do you think that after he forced her to marry him he was just going to snuggle with her?). I didn't say that you said that it was the right thing to do, but you did say he had the "right idea." You're right, everyone here can read your post and verify this.

#26 Edited by dshipp17 (958 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@dshipp17: Hades was trying to rape her (or do you think that after he forced her to marry him he was just going to snuggle with her?). I didn't say that you said that it was the right thing to do, but you did say he had the "right idea." You're right, everyone here can read your post and verify this.

Actually, you don't seem to even know what part of the Hades story arc that I might have been thinking about, not withstanding the fact that I don't see your interpretation in that aspect of the story. Hades attempting to convince Diana to marry him, albeit through extorting her into the act, and trying to sexually force himself upon her sexually for one moment of gratification and control, are two completely different things entirely; thus, it's odd that you can see a rape someplace where it was not actually explicitly present speaks several things about where your mind seems to be hanging; even seeing how you're putting it, e.g. Hades enjoying sex during the marriage, is not rape as I and most people would see it, because it would not have involved Hades forcing himself upon Diana sexually, even after (or especially) Diana had said no; plus, it wasn't actually the part of being extorted into marry Hades that set Diana off, but Hades demonstrating that he would be mistrustful of Diana and asking her to perform an unreasonable request (and to her credit in my mind; actually, with Hades being the personification of evil, from my perspective, disqualified him from being a love interest for Diana; I just didn't like how she decided to get out of it by saying that she has love for everyone). The place that I was referring to was actually several panels and the next issue after this attempt to extort Diana into marrying him and had nothing to do with it, although being connected, after Hades had perceived Diana's rejection of him with the double talking of her having love for everyone; but, anyway, what you inserted into my post could not have been this part of the story (or what my post was talking about) because it has nothing to do with defeating Diana combat-wise (psychologically speaking), at least not in the context that I made my post; it represents a meaning that you put there in my post, so I couldn't let that slip.

#27 Posted by Akindoodle (972 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@akindoodle said:

@dshipp17: @dmessmer: Yay! I got the answer!

What's really amazing is that you got @dshipp17 and I to agree on something.

Then he went and ruined it by saying that Hades attempt to rape Wonder Woman was "the right idea."

Yeah and reading the following posts, I think you jinxed it. Lol

#28 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: Well, we wouldn't want the universe to implode or anything.

#29 Posted by Akindoodle (972 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: Of course not, in the spirit of true altruism and all that

#30 Edited by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17:

My original comment was not meant to suggest that you think rape is a good thing, but was instead meant to distance myself from what I see as a lack of understanding on your part of the full implications of what your own words were actually saying, given the rather obvious implications of the story.

I should have known from our previous interactions that notions of implication would be lost on you. The myth of Hades and Persephone never specifically mentions that he forced himself on her sexually, yet poets, artists, and scholars refer to that story as "The Rape of Persephone" because they understand the notion that Hades forcing Persephone to come to the underworld and marry him against her will is an implicit act of rape. Azzarello clearly knew this, as he included a version of Persephone in his story in which she is clearly trying to escape from Hades, to the extent that she would slit her own wrists, yet she cannot get away from him. The implication is that Wonder Woman would share this same fate.

Clearly, had his plan worked, Hades didn't intend to just hold Wonder Woman's hand. He was going to try to have sex with her, just as he did with Persephone, even though Wonder Woman had no agency in the situation (or at least he didn't think so - the plan failed because she did have agency) and thus could not grant consent. Sex with a non-consenting partner is the definition of rape.

#31 Edited by dshipp17 (958 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@dshipp17:

My original comment was not meant to suggest that you think rape is a good thing, but was instead meant to distance myself from what I see as a lack of understanding on your part of the full implications of what your own words were actually saying, given the rather obvious implications of the story.

I should have known from our previous interactions that notions of implication would be lost on you. The myth of Hades and Persephone never specifically mentions that he forced himself on her sexually, yet poets, artists, and scholars refer to that story as "The Rape of Persephone" because they understand the notion that Hades forcing Persephone to come to the underworld and marry him against her will is an implicit act of rape. Azzarello clearly knew this, as he included a version of Persephone in his story in which she is clearly trying to escape from Hades, to the extent that she would slit her own wrists, yet she cannot get away from him. The implication is that Wonder Woman would share this same fate.

Clearly, had his plan worked, Hades didn't intend to just hold Wonder Woman's hand. He was going to try to have sex with her, just as he did with Persephone, even though Wonder Woman had no agency in the situation (or at least he didn't think so - the plan failed because she did have agency) and thus could not grant consent. Sex with a non-consenting partner is the definition of rape.

Actually, I was agreeing with another poster and cited that poster; if you wanted to distance yourself from a post made by me just plainly say that is your intend instead of embezzling my comments; clearly, what you were doing was far and beyond that because you embezzled my post with your perception of the arc. Of course, your expanded definition of rape is lost to me in my post; I can't account for everyone's decision to take a reasonable discussion between two posters and muddy it with your desire to see something negative in a post that simply is not there, which is apparently because of my gender. I haven't read that story because I'm Christian and I usually avoid any implication of other gods in the guise of realism out of proper reverence for passages in the Holy Bible and God, by proxy; thus, I cannot speak on that, but in the case of Wonder Woman, Hades merely tried to induce Diana into marrying her for Zola's safety/sake, not rape her. Because it was Hades' trust issues that dissolved any further development of the marriage, I cannot even begin the starting steps of inserting rape into the equation, especially where rape is the attempts at sexual intercourse after one of the involved individuals has clearly declined the sex. Additionally, an immediate threat of bodily harm for the purpose of inducing Diana into sexual intercourse was not involved or an immediate threat of bodily harm to someone else present who Diana knew and cared about in the immediate vicinity was not present, so there was not rape involved. I'm not thinking of all possibilities, so this is not an exhaustive list, but your expanded implication of rape would probably not be included in that expanded list. I'd be charging Hades with a crime in the mold of extorting or placing duress on an individual to induce them into an action rather than rape, even though they both can involve inducing a person into doing something they otherwise might not do; the key factor removing the rape is that Hades automatically assumed that Diana would not have consented, if asked in an appropriate and well timed manner that Diana would have been inclined to consent; had Hades asked and got declined, than took actions to induce Diana into a sexual encounter than I would expand my definition of rape to include that set of circumstances, as Hades would be clearly inducing Diana into something she would otherwise not have done. I get your expanded definition and it involves assuming that Diana would have declined Hades' advances in any set of circumstances that one could conceive; which begs the question, if Diana were offered an appropriate sum of money and was persuaded into volunteering sex, would that be rape? Maybe, but it does say that under xyz circumstances, Diana would consent to the sex; that one is the grey area for me and hard to say. I believe Hades was trying to force Diana into loving him, an act which is impossible, as real love cannot be forced; it must be volunteered of one's own free will; and I must say that's what separates me from the person that Azzarello was trying to make Hades out to be; if I feel that the person cannot extend love to me of their own free will, than I cease all my attempts; I cannot even attempt to do anything to or for anyone that I consider contrary to their free will.

#32 Posted by dmessmer (356 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17: So you don't read stories about other gods... except Wonder Woman. Your ability to contradict your own attempts at logic never cease to amaze me. Your stance also just reinforces what I've been saying all along, which is that you only entertain your own ideas and beliefs and never even try to see beyond them or even admit that other possibilities exist.

Furthermore, the inclusion of Persephone in the Wonder Woman story (seriously, read the section with her in it - it's gruesome), is a clear allusion to Greek mythology. If you are ignorant of that mythology, then you must admit that it is possible that there is an important element of Azzarello's story that you are missing. That that element involves a character who is most famous for being raped suggests that you might not fully understand what is going on in regards to the sexual dynamics of the story.

By your definition of rape ("rape is the attempts at sexual intercourse after one of the involved individuals has clearly declined the sex"), having sex with a woman who is unconscious, and thus unable to decline the sex, is not rape. I believe that it is (as does U.S. law). The rapist in that situation has stolen the element of choice (a.k.a. consent) from the victim. Hades, by attempting to use Eros' guns to compel Wonder Woman to marry him (and surely to consumate that marriage), is robbing her of that choice, and by refusing to allow her to consent is also raping her (or at least, would have been if his plan had worked).

#33 Edited by Guardian_of_Gravity (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

Having to go through Amazons attack again.

#34 Edited by dshipp17 (958 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@dshipp17: So you don't read stories about other gods... except Wonder Woman. Your ability to contradict your own attempts at logic never cease to amaze me. Your stance also just reinforces what I've been saying all along, which is that you only entertain your own ideas and beliefs and never even try to see beyond them or even admit that other possibilities exist.

Furthermore, the inclusion of Persephone in the Wonder Woman story (seriously, read the section with her in it - it's gruesome), is a clear allusion to Greek mythology. If you are ignorant of that mythology, then you must admit that it is possible that there is an important element of Azzarello's story that you are missing. That that element involves a character who is most famous for being raped suggests that you might not fully understand what is going on in regards to the sexual dynamics of the story.

By your definition of rape ("rape is the attempts at sexual intercourse after one of the involved individuals has clearly declined the sex"), having sex with a woman who is unconscious, and thus unable to decline the sex, is not rape. I believe that it is (as does U.S. law). The rapist in that situation has stolen the element of choice (a.k.a. consent) from the victim. Hades, by attempting to use Eros' guns to compel Wonder Woman to marry him (and surely to consumate that marriage), is robbing her of that choice, and by refusing to allow her to consent is also raping her (or at least, would have been if his plan had worked).

I try to avoid stories which tries to introduce the notion that there are other gods and that they are real. Holy Scripture says that there is only One God and He is The Great I Am, with with the updates addendum that The Great I Am is in the form of a Holy Trinity, yet still One God; a very complicate concept and perhaps impossible for mortals, but not for God. However, One God does not mean that there are not other supernatural forces and we clearly believe that there are other supernatural forces; however, those other supernatural forces can only be in the form of Angels or Demons, where it appears that, if there is a grain of truth within those other religions, I'd have to it chalk up to confusing an Angelic or Demonic force as a god, except Angels will not allow themselves to reach the rank of a god as direct competition to God; if the force is allowing or inducing this confusion (e.g. allowing themselves to be considered a god), than we rest assure that it's a Demonic force. With that said, I don't agree that I've contradicted my own logic, especially since I didn't claim to be an expert on rape; I actually said my list was not exhaustive; I think you just missed that point out of zeal to see something that's not there; the Wonder Woman comics had not been a religious based comic up to this point; however, while I'm keeping up with the Wonder Woman comics, it's less of a focus because of a writer who seems to be overly interested in the Greek Pantheons; I must say that it's really bordering on something that I'd prefer to avoid. And going back to points in my prior post, even though Hades believed that Eros gun had affected Diana, she later confirmed that the guns had no effect or at least not the level of effect intended by Hades; it was there that Diana stated that it was Hades' inability to trust her that was the ultimate deal breaker for her. My list wasn't exhaustive so it didn't include drugging someone than having sex but that is attempted rape with about a 99.9% lean towards actual rape.

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