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    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8717 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    What if Wonder Woman Lives in Marvel Universe

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    GrandWonder

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    #51  Edited By GrandWonder

    She and Captain America would be the perfect romantic match. Steve Rogers and Diana Prince.

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    Vortex1456789

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    She and Captain America would be the perfect romantic match. Steve Rogers and Diana Prince.

    Totally agree, either that or Thor. WW is my favorite female hero.

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    Outside_85

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    I couldn't imagine Diana could be exported into the Marvel U without some drastic changes to her character since she is one of those superhuman exemplars Marvel likes to take potshots at for not seeming like a real person aka not having any internal problems she can fight with in her off-time.

    Add to this, I would worry they would also tamper with her powers or just their level to not make her a threat to their traditional powerhouses. Because unlike Sentry and Hyperion, Diana is just too big a name for Marvel to send her off into limbo if they cant think of anything to do with her.

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    Valdemocnij

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    How... she will have a lot of battles with the Hulk ! And that female Thor will have DC :P

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    Saint_Sophie

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    #55  Edited By Saint_Sophie

    Well she and Thor would probably get along just fine.. plus

    @grandwonder said:

    She and Captain America would be the perfect romantic match. Steve Rogers and Diana Prince.

    I agree with this..

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    Vortex1456789

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    Well she and Thor would probably get along just fine.. plus

    @grandwonder said:

    She and Captain America would be the perfect romantic match. Steve Rogers and Diana Prince.

    I agree with this..

    Doesn't Asgard and Amazons have some kind of history ? Or something ?

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    Saint_Sophie

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    @vortex14: Not so sure. If they did, it was probably with Marvel's Amazon.

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    dshipp17

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    #58  Edited By dshipp17

    @outside_85 said:

    I couldn't imagine Diana could be exported into the Marvel U without some drastic changes to her character since she is one of those superhuman exemplars Marvel likes to take potshots at for not seeming like a real person aka not having any internal problems she can fight with in her off-time.

    Add to this, I would worry they would also tamper with her powers or just their level to not make her a threat to their traditional powerhouses. Because unlike Sentry and Hyperion, Diana is just too big a name for Marvel to send her off into limbo if they cant think of anything to do with her.

    Marvel would simply replace Captain Marvel, Carol Danvers, with Wonder Woman. It's already been pointed out several times by several different people that Carol Danvers is Marvel's version of Wonder Woman. Marvel would than have to find out how to make Carol Danvers fit in Wonder Woman's presence in the Marvel Universe. And even accurately still, Wonder Woman would be like 90s Rogue from the X-Men animated series in terms of power level. Done this way, Marvel would demonstrate to DC how Wonder Woman should have always been handled.

    Similarly, if Superman were to be sent to the Marvel Universe, he'd be placed in the power level of a character like The Thing.

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    dshipp17

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    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @outside_85 said:

    I couldn't imagine Diana could be exported into the Marvel U without some drastic changes to her character since she is one of those superhuman exemplars Marvel likes to take potshots at for not seeming like a real person aka not having any internal problems she can fight with in her off-time.

    Add to this, I would worry they would also tamper with her powers or just their level to not make her a threat to their traditional powerhouses. Because unlike Sentry and Hyperion, Diana is just too big a name for Marvel to send her off into limbo if they cant think of anything to do with her.

    Marvel would simply replace Captain Marvel, Carol Danvers, with Wonder Woman. It's already been pointed out several times by several different people that Carol Danvers is Marvel's version of Wonder Woman. Marvel would than have to find out how to make Carol Danvers fit in Wonder Woman's presence in the Marvel Universe. And even accurately still, Wonder Woman would be like 90s Rogue from the X-Men animated series in terms of power level. Done this way, Marvel would demonstrate to DC how Wonder Woman should have always been handled.

    Similarly, if Superman were to be sent to the Marvel Universe, he'd be placed in the power level of a character like The Thing.

    False. Marvel has powerhouses in strength class way above Ms Marvel and The Thing. Nothing suggests that Superman would be only as powerful as the thing when Superman has a lot of powers the thing hasn't including super speed. rogue with Ms Marvel power was only a 50 tonner with sonic speed. WW has always been in all versions way stronger and faster than that. Way more durable as well. Nothing nothing suggests Marvel would keep WW at that level. WW is way above Ms Marvel in power level. If we go by the way Marvel handles their females then WW would be(at the very least)like She-Hulk in strength(the strongest female in Marvel in terms of raw strength)who happens to be stronger than the thing and Superman would be like Gladiator in strength,who happens to be Marvel's Superman.

    And on top of it all. This is only your oppinion about how these characters should be handled. Nothing suggests that WW should be a mid tier(that is what 90s rogue and ms marvel are). WW has always been a top tier and has worked very well. I don't understand why you think that lowering power levels has anything to do with the quality of the stories. You can have good stories with very powerful characters and find real threats that push them to the limits. You can believe whatever you want but please don't act like your oppinion is the ultimate truth about how powerful she should be.

    What I said is not false at all. This is a matter of how Wonder Woman would be reflected in the Marvel Universe, not how you envision her. It doesn't matter that Marvel has powerhouses above Captain Marvel, because they have nothing to do with Wonder Woman. All versions of Wonder Woman have not been depicted as way stronger than Ms. Marvel nor more durable. I disagree that Wonder Woman should be handled like She-Hulk. Superman should not be like Gladiator, since I've seen the likes of Juggernaut just bounce off him, where Juggernaut could handle the Hulk. I'm not lowering Wonder Woman's power level, they've just been inflated since about Greg Rucka's run and very inconsistently since than.

    I want to see Wonder Woman's power level being depicted in line with what the vast majority of her stories show; it's not about reducing her power level; it's actually returning her power levels to what they were before certain writers took over her book. That would be approximately all of the stories between about 1957 through 1985, followed by the Messner-Loebs run, skipping John Byrne, than skipping Rucka and the writers after words. Azzarello's run actually implies that only "gods" and supernatural beings are strong enough for Wonder Woman and I disagree; Meredith Finch appeared to get back on track when Wonder Woman encountered Swamp Thing but I'm not all that familiar with Swamp Thing. I see that DC was trying to redefine Wonder Woman's feats, starting with Rucka, albeit inconsistently, but I think those efforts should be stopped. These suggestions are but one component to shaping good Wonder Woman stories. The other would be changing the tone of her stories. Level down on this Greek Mythology bit; look into stories that involve characters like Dejah Thoris and shape her stories with this tone; bring in Dr. Psycho; in other words, replace the concentration on Greek Mythology with a concentration on Dr. Psycho. There are a host of other suggestions, but these are a start. The focus on Greek Mythology has had its day so it needs to be cut loose for a while.

    I'm entitled to share my opinion about what I think is helpful for the character as much as you share your opinion. I'm giving more extensive suggestions outside of trying to make her display strength feats because Superman is showing his strength. Wonder Woman is a more versatile character than trying to show how strong she is relative to Superman; besides, Superman is a man and Wonder Woman is a woman; therefore, the focus of her stories should involved a different tone; the strength feats is more of a male tone; it's actually as basic as that, making the tone of her stories different from the tone of both Superman and Batman stories.

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    ZhuRong

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    @agent41: Marston could teach these amateur writers a thing or two about Wonder Woman. It seems like these writers go based off cartoons and non-canon crap then they think they have a idea of what Wonder Woman is all about. The reason I gained interest in Wonder Woman is because I like the fact that writers established a strong female that can fight for truth and justice. That's why a lot of people on this site dislike her because they can't handle the fact that a female is a threat to their favorite male powerhous.

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    ZhuRong

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    @agent41: Forgot to mention that since that's a bigger reason. Writers need to portray her with a better attitude and prowess. The inconsistencies and bipolar personality is becoming a pain.

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    ZhuRong

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    @agent41: Sometimes I feel like giving up hope but I know things will get better eventually once she get some better writers like Simone and Ruka. Azz didn't do a bad job but it wasn't a great job either.

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    KingVenus

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    Without Diana! Superman would be puresh*t

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    ZhuRong

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    @agent41: You're right. I was actually glad that Finch was given the chance to write her. Writers tend to have their own ideas when writing comics. Comic companies should be making wise as to who is writing what.

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    FoamBorn

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    I wouldn't mind that, even with a power cutdown. I feel like power is more evenly spread out at Marvel whereas DC's got a more pyramidal structure where Batman and Superman monopolize the superlatives. Also art-wise Marvel is a lot stronger in my opinion.

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    BappyRonChantin

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    #74  Edited By BappyRonChantin

    @delphic said:

    The Adventures of the Marvelous Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman has been put in the Marvel universe through strange circumstances. Who does she meet? Who does she forge relationships with? Who are her enemies? Here is a potential list of allies and a rouges gallery for the Marvelous Wonder Woman.

    No Caption Provided
    1. Namor

    The king of Atlantis himself, and probably the bane of of Diana's existence on Earth 616. He's not as much an enemy as he is an annoyance. His constant attempts to win Diana's affection through dominating her is often enough times to send Diana over the edge.

    2. Wolverine

    When Diana first meets Wolverine her feelings for him are pretty much indifferent, and she sees him as a good ally and friend. Over time she develops some feeling for him, and over time Logan does as well, but events would occur that would keep the two from ever carrying their relationship further.

    3. Ms. Marvel

    Probably Diana's closest friend on Earth 616. The two would go as far as to share an apartment together.

    4. Captain America

    Diana and Steve see eye to eye on a lot of things, but the don't always get along. They are good friends and can easily put aside their differences for the good of mankind, but truth be told he reminds her a little too much of a certain "big blue boy scout" back home.

    5. Spider-Man

    Diana really likes Peter, but as one really likes a friend that can always make them laugh even in their darkest of moments. There are many times that Peter has cheered her up, and the two have a very close friendship. The will go to great lengths to help one another such as from helping to take down Doctor Octopus latest contraption to showing up as Peter's date for a special party.

    6. Iron Man

    Diana and Tony have probably the strangest relationship of all the other Avengers. They are good friends, but there is a sense of distance between them. His rich playboy attitude reminds her a lot of the "Caped Crusader", minus all the brooding and extra Wayne. Strangely enough though, he has never hit on her once during their entire time working together. Much to Diana's disappointment.

    7. Hulk

    Diana rarely interacts with Banner, but when she does she sees a man given a gift that he doesn't want, but at the same time she believes that Banner is the best person to be in possession of such a raw force of power. The Hulk itself is indeed a monster to her, and Diana thinks that it is unfortunate for a man like Banner to have to bear that curse.

    8. Carnage

    Kletus Cassidy is one of Diana's arch-enemies on Earth 616. To Diana the man is pure evil and the symbiote attached to him only makes him that much more nefarious. At one point Carnage managed to take over Diana and used her to attack the people of Earth 616. A lot of damage was done and it scarred Diana so much that she still has nightmares of the symbiote till this day.

    9. Hercules

    Diana really can't stand him because of the fact that of the woe his Multiverse counterpart brought down upon the Amazons. She admits that he is somewhat different, but she cannot entirely shake her contempt. Luckily though she is often able to put aside differences when the need to work together outweighs what would happen if they did not. Hercules often remarks on how much of her mother she sees in her, despite the fact that Earth 616's Hippolyta is not Diana's mother

    10. Artume

    Diana's counterpart and Arch-Nemesis on Earth 616. Artume is disgusted by Diana's claim to be a daughter of the Amazon's and Hippolyta, and seeks to destroy her and expose her as a farce. Diana is in turn angered by Artume's disposition often scolding the girl about how her anger is wasted and how she is living her life in vanity when she could be so much greater.

    11. She-Hulk

    Another one of Diana's close friends on Earth 616. The two women are often see together chit chatting about life or working together on an Avengers Mission. Diana likes her friend, but often comments about how "eccentric" she is.

    12. Deadpool

    *sigh* The man usually doesn't stay conscious for very long when he's around Diana, which has in turn only made the "Merc with a Mouth" run his mouth even more. It's quite a sad story really.

    13. Daredevil

    Diana didn't know what to think of Matt Murdock when she first met him other than his choice of cologne was rather strong. He was unique in a sense that he had a way with words and charm unlike any other man she had met. At one point he manages to gain her affection, but there was something about him that was off setting. She couldn't quite place what it was, but it was enough to make her want to keep her distance from him emotionally. They rarely have the opportunity to work together seeing as they are called to work different mission types. Truth be told they really don't want to work together too much, because the longer they are around one another the more awkward things seem to get.

    14. Delphyne

    Delphyne is the Queen of the Amazons on Earth 616, and though at first she is not quite what Diana expects she comes to respect her rule of the Amazons.

    Quite an analogy

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    dshipp17

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    #75  Edited By dshipp17

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @outside_85 said:

    I couldn't imagine Diana could be exported into the Marvel U without some drastic changes to her character since she is one of those superhuman exemplars Marvel likes to take potshots at for not seeming like a real person aka not having any internal problems she can fight with in her off-time.

    Add to this, I would worry they would also tamper with her powers or just their level to not make her a threat to their traditional powerhouses. Because unlike Sentry and Hyperion, Diana is just too big a name for Marvel to send her off into limbo if they cant think of anything to do with her.

    Marvel would simply replace Captain Marvel, Carol Danvers, with Wonder Woman. It's already been pointed out several times by several different people that Carol Danvers is Marvel's version of Wonder Woman. Marvel would than have to find out how to make Carol Danvers fit in Wonder Woman's presence in the Marvel Universe. And even accurately still, Wonder Woman would be like 90s Rogue from the X-Men animated series in terms of power level. Done this way, Marvel would demonstrate to DC how Wonder Woman should have always been handled.

    Similarly, if Superman were to be sent to the Marvel Universe, he'd be placed in the power level of a character like The Thing.

    False. Marvel has powerhouses in strength class way above Ms Marvel and The Thing. Nothing suggests that Superman would be only as powerful as the thing when Superman has a lot of powers the thing hasn't including super speed. rogue with Ms Marvel power was only a 50 tonner with sonic speed. WW has always been in all versions way stronger and faster than that. Way more durable as well. Nothing nothing suggests Marvel would keep WW at that level. WW is way above Ms Marvel in power level. If we go by the way Marvel handles their females then WW would be(at the very least)like She-Hulk in strength(the strongest female in Marvel in terms of raw strength)who happens to be stronger than the thing and Superman would be like Gladiator in strength,who happens to be Marvel's Superman.

    And on top of it all. This is only your oppinion about how these characters should be handled. Nothing suggests that WW should be a mid tier(that is what 90s rogue and ms marvel are). WW has always been a top tier and has worked very well. I don't understand why you think that lowering power levels has anything to do with the quality of the stories. You can have good stories with very powerful characters and find real threats that push them to the limits. You can believe whatever you want but please don't act like your oppinion is the ultimate truth about how powerful she should be.

    What I said is not false at all. This is a matter of how Wonder Woman would be reflected in the Marvel Universe, not how you envision her. It doesn't matter that Marvel has powerhouses above Captain Marvel, because they have nothing to do with Wonder Woman. All versions of Wonder Woman have not been depicted as way stronger than Ms. Marvel nor more durable. I disagree that Wonder Woman should be handled like She-Hulk. Superman should not be like Gladiator, since I've seen the likes of Juggernaut just bounce off him, where Juggernaut could handle the Hulk. I'm not lowering Wonder Woman's power level, they've just been inflated since about Greg Rucka's run and very inconsistently since than.

    I want to see Wonder Woman's power level being depicted in line with what the vast majority of her stories show; it's not about reducing her power level; it's actually returning her power levels to what they were before certain writers took over her book. That would be approximately all of the stories between about 1957 through 1985, followed by the Messner-Loebs run, skipping John Byrne, than skipping Rucka and the writers after words. Azzarello's run actually implies that only "gods" and supernatural beings are strong enough for Wonder Woman and I disagree; Meredith Finch appeared to get back on track when Wonder Woman encountered Swamp Thing but I'm not all that familiar with Swamp Thing. I see that DC was trying to redefine Wonder Woman's feats, starting with Rucka, albeit inconsistently, but I think those efforts should be stopped. These suggestions are but one component to shaping good Wonder Woman stories. The other would be changing the tone of her stories. Level down on this Greek Mythology bit; look into stories that involve characters like Dejah Thoris and shape her stories with this tone; bring in Dr. Psycho; in other words, replace the concentration on Greek Mythology with a concentration on Dr. Psycho. There are a host of other suggestions, but these are a start. The focus on Greek Mythology has had its day so it needs to be cut loose for a while.

    I'm entitled to share my opinion about what I think is helpful for the character as much as you share your opinion. I'm giving more extensive suggestions outside of trying to make her display strength feats because Superman is showing his strength. Wonder Woman is a more versatile character than trying to show how strong she is relative to Superman; besides, Superman is a man and Wonder Woman is a woman; therefore, the focus of her stories should involved a different tone; the strength feats is more of a male tone; it's actually as basic as that, making the tone of her stories different from the tone of both Superman and Batman stories.

    WW has been way stronger and way more durable than ms marvel in all versions. Every version of WW has better feats than Ms Marvel. There is literally no comic version of Diana that wouldn't clean the floor with Ms Marvel. I know this because i know Diana feats from every run just like i know all of Carol feats.

    Superman is about justice and hope and figths aliens. Batman is about tragedy and fighting crime. WW is about truth,empathy and mythology. Of course not all of her stories must be around mythology but there is no need to reduce her power for that. Of course WW should face gods and super natural beings when it comes to the face to face battles. You can't expect peak humans to be a threat to her physically. Dr Psycho can't be used as a direct threat. He would have to be used as somebody that moves from the distance to hurt her and her love ones since he can't hurt her physically. And that is a good thing. It's good to have different villans that are athreat in different ways. Somebody that challenges her mind rather than her physical powers. So no need to reduce her power level. All characters have inconsistencies. Hulk has a lot of them too. Ruka didn't inflate her strength. On the contrary her strength has been reducerd over time. Golden Age WW strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Any other version of the character. You said that they should respect Marston vision more. Well you better remember that Marston wanted her to be extremily strong and durable and with the potential to grow stronger over time. So she should never be limited because it goes against a very importat part of her character. Her character has always shown to grow stronger as she faces new challenges and keeps on training. It wouldn't be right to take that away from her limiting her to stay always on the same level. The fact that she improves and gets stronger over time it's one of the best and most interesting things about her character. And it has a great meaning related to how we have to face different challenges in life and grow stronger. Marston certainly knew what he was doing.

    I do want Wonder Woman returned to Marston's vision of her. Marston included features you liked about her and other features that I liked about her. As far as her feats, Marston had her out racing cars, not going faster than light, so I don't think that was intended; as far as strength, she was uprooting trees, not helping to move the Earth; I think this is about where she should be returned; she's more like Carol Danvers in every way, thinking back on this. I want all of the weaknesses returned in relation to the lasso being used by villains and chaining her bracelets together by villains. Yes, I want her empathy for people to be kind of a weakness that Dr. Psycho can exploit to chain her bracelets together and use the lasso against her. We can than modernize those stories from Marston's run. Dr. Psycho should be able to mess with her mentally. It's not confirmed that Dr. Psycho's powers cannot affect Wonder Woman in the New 52, so they should work on her, although, as a compromise, just not as effectively as they would work on others, something along the lines of that New Sensations issue a few months ago; in other wards, somewhere between where they affected Superman, but could not affect the Martian Manhunter, although, thinking about it, there's just simply no reason that his powers should not work on her; I believe Marston intended for Dr. Psycho's powers to work on her and for him to represent a psychological threat; Marston's time was cut short before he could really develop the dynamics between Dr. Psycho and Wonder Woman, where the following writer seems to have scrapped the idea completely, robbing us of Wonder Woman's Lex Luthor and Joker. I think Dr. Psycho's powers should work to force writers to come up with creative ways for her to eventually defeat him and his plans, at least.

    Again, I think Carol Danvers is Wonder Woman in the Marvel universe; her feats being different in those runs that I pointed out is simply showing that DC handles her differently than how I suspect Marvel would handle her; Marvel's handling of Carol Danvers is a clear indication of how they would mostly likely handle Wonder Woman, although with a few differences; I believe that if Carol Danvers were swapped over to DC for Wonder Woman, DC would have Carol Danvers perform in the same way they have Wonder Woman perform, at least in the way Wonder Woman performed during those periods that I mentioned. As a matter of fact, I think the two companies swapping these two characters on a lender's basis would be an interesting idea, to see how each company would handle each character.

    If Marvel thought Wonder Woman could match or beat all of their top tier characters than they would have created such a female character about the time they created Carol Danvers and would have adapted her the same way they've adapted characters like the Hulk; actually, them not adjusting Carol's power levels in such a way is an indication; DC clearly starting adjusting Wonder Woman's power level at some point either near (e.g. something that gave Rucka his inspiration) or during Rucka's run; I think the first attempt at adjusting her power level occurred with John Byrne, but was quickly abandoned after his run, if not during his run (e.g. adjusting her power level and than killing her off). And I do think constantly adjusting the Hulk's power level is a bad thing (e.g. World War Hulk). I liked the X-Men TAS from the 1990s and I really don't like just how far Marvel has deviated from that image of the X-Men; as a matter of fact, I thought X-Men Evolution was a bad sequel to the X-Men, just like Star Trek Enterprise was a bad sequel in the Star Trek franchise; they were ok ideas once they grow on you and was not a deal breaker, but I'd have preferred not seeing a prequel. But, the X-Men franchise has been successful since X-Men TAS and I'm happy for it, but I just cannot seem to find away to get as attached to it as I once was, likely because Apocalypse is no longer their apex villain and his character in the comics was discovered to be so different from his character in X-Men TAS

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    CSG_CL

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    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @outside_85 said:

    I couldn't imagine Diana could be exported into the Marvel U without some drastic changes to her character since she is one of those superhuman exemplars Marvel likes to take potshots at for not seeming like a real person aka not having any internal problems she can fight with in her off-time.

    Add to this, I would worry they would also tamper with her powers or just their level to not make her a threat to their traditional powerhouses. Because unlike Sentry and Hyperion, Diana is just too big a name for Marvel to send her off into limbo if they cant think of anything to do with her.

    Marvel would simply replace Captain Marvel, Carol Danvers, with Wonder Woman. It's already been pointed out several times by several different people that Carol Danvers is Marvel's version of Wonder Woman. Marvel would than have to find out how to make Carol Danvers fit in Wonder Woman's presence in the Marvel Universe. And even accurately still, Wonder Woman would be like 90s Rogue from the X-Men animated series in terms of power level. Done this way, Marvel would demonstrate to DC how Wonder Woman should have always been handled.

    Similarly, if Superman were to be sent to the Marvel Universe, he'd be placed in the power level of a character like The Thing.

    False. Marvel has powerhouses in strength class way above Ms Marvel and The Thing. Nothing suggests that Superman would be only as powerful as the thing when Superman has a lot of powers the thing hasn't including super speed. rogue with Ms Marvel power was only a 50 tonner with sonic speed. WW has always been in all versions way stronger and faster than that. Way more durable as well. Nothing nothing suggests Marvel would keep WW at that level. WW is way above Ms Marvel in power level. If we go by the way Marvel handles their females then WW would be(at the very least)like She-Hulk in strength(the strongest female in Marvel in terms of raw strength)who happens to be stronger than the thing and Superman would be like Gladiator in strength,who happens to be Marvel's Superman.

    And on top of it all. This is only your oppinion about how these characters should be handled. Nothing suggests that WW should be a mid tier(that is what 90s rogue and ms marvel are). WW has always been a top tier and has worked very well. I don't understand why you think that lowering power levels has anything to do with the quality of the stories. You can have good stories with very powerful characters and find real threats that push them to the limits. You can believe whatever you want but please don't act like your oppinion is the ultimate truth about how powerful she should be.

    What I said is not false at all. This is a matter of how Wonder Woman would be reflected in the Marvel Universe, not how you envision her. It doesn't matter that Marvel has powerhouses above Captain Marvel, because they have nothing to do with Wonder Woman. All versions of Wonder Woman have not been depicted as way stronger than Ms. Marvel nor more durable. I disagree that Wonder Woman should be handled like She-Hulk. Superman should not be like Gladiator, since I've seen the likes of Juggernaut just bounce off him, where Juggernaut could handle the Hulk. I'm not lowering Wonder Woman's power level, they've just been inflated since about Greg Rucka's run and very inconsistently since than.

    I want to see Wonder Woman's power level being depicted in line with what the vast majority of her stories show; it's not about reducing her power level; it's actually returning her power levels to what they were before certain writers took over her book. That would be approximately all of the stories between about 1957 through 1985, followed by the Messner-Loebs run, skipping John Byrne, than skipping Rucka and the writers after words. Azzarello's run actually implies that only "gods" and supernatural beings are strong enough for Wonder Woman and I disagree; Meredith Finch appeared to get back on track when Wonder Woman encountered Swamp Thing but I'm not all that familiar with Swamp Thing. I see that DC was trying to redefine Wonder Woman's feats, starting with Rucka, albeit inconsistently, but I think those efforts should be stopped. These suggestions are but one component to shaping good Wonder Woman stories. The other would be changing the tone of her stories. Level down on this Greek Mythology bit; look into stories that involve characters like Dejah Thoris and shape her stories with this tone; bring in Dr. Psycho; in other words, replace the concentration on Greek Mythology with a concentration on Dr. Psycho. There are a host of other suggestions, but these are a start. The focus on Greek Mythology has had its day so it needs to be cut loose for a while.

    I'm entitled to share my opinion about what I think is helpful for the character as much as you share your opinion. I'm giving more extensive suggestions outside of trying to make her display strength feats because Superman is showing his strength. Wonder Woman is a more versatile character than trying to show how strong she is relative to Superman; besides, Superman is a man and Wonder Woman is a woman; therefore, the focus of her stories should involved a different tone; the strength feats is more of a male tone; it's actually as basic as that, making the tone of her stories different from the tone of both Superman and Batman stories.

    WW has been way stronger and way more durable than ms marvel in all versions. Every version of WW has better feats than Ms Marvel. There is literally no comic version of Diana that wouldn't clean the floor with Ms Marvel. I know this because i know Diana feats from every run just like i know all of Carol feats.

    Superman is about justice and hope and figths aliens. Batman is about tragedy and fighting crime. WW is about truth,empathy and mythology. Of course not all of her stories must be around mythology but there is no need to reduce her power for that. Of course WW should face gods and super natural beings when it comes to the face to face battles. You can't expect peak humans to be a threat to her physically. Dr Psycho can't be used as a direct threat. He would have to be used as somebody that moves from the distance to hurt her and her love ones since he can't hurt her physically. And that is a good thing. It's good to have different villans that are athreat in different ways. Somebody that challenges her mind rather than her physical powers. So no need to reduce her power level. All characters have inconsistencies. Hulk has a lot of them too. Ruka didn't inflate her strength. On the contrary her strength has been reducerd over time. Golden Age WW strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Any other version of the character. You said that they should respect Marston vision more. Well you better remember that Marston wanted her to be extremily strong and durable and with the potential to grow stronger over time. So she should never be limited because it goes against a very importat part of her character. Her character has always shown to grow stronger as she faces new challenges and keeps on training. It wouldn't be right to take that away from her limiting her to stay always on the same level. The fact that she improves and gets stronger over time it's one of the best and most interesting things about her character. And it has a great meaning related to how we have to face different challenges in life and grow stronger. Marston certainly knew what he was doing.

    I do want Wonder Woman returned to Marston's vision of her. Marston included features you liked about her and other features that I liked about her. As far as her feats, Marston had her out racing cars, not going faster than light, so I don't think that was intended; as far as strength, she was uprooting trees, not helping to move the Earth; I think this is about where she should be returned; she's more like Carol Danvers in every way, thinking back on this. I want all of the weaknesses returned in relation to the lasso being used by villains and chaining her bracelets together by villains. Yes, I want her empathy for people to be kind of a weakness that Dr. Psycho can exploit to chain her bracelets together and use the lasso against her. We can than modernize those stories from Marston's run. Dr. Psycho should be able to mess with her mentally. It's not confirmed that Dr. Psycho's powers cannot affect Wonder Woman in the New 52, so they should work on her, although, as a compromise, just not as effectively as they would work on others, something along the lines of that New Sensations issue a few months ago; in other wards, somewhere between where they affected Superman, but could not affect the Martian Manhunter, although, thinking about it, there's just simply no reason that his powers should not work on her; I believe Marston intended for Dr. Psycho's powers to work on her and for him to represent a psychological threat; Marston's time was cut short before he could really develop the dynamics between Dr. Psycho and Wonder Woman, where the following writer seems to have scrapped the idea completely, robbing us of Wonder Woman's Lex Luthor and Joker. I think Dr. Psycho's powers should work to force writers to come up with creative ways for her to eventually defeat him and his plans, at least.

    Again, I think Carol Danvers is Wonder Woman in the Marvel universe; her feats being different in those runs that I pointed out is simply showing that DC handles her differently than how I suspect Marvel would handle her; Marvel's handling of Carol Danvers is a clear indication of how they would mostly likely handle Wonder Woman, although with a few differences; I believe that if Carol Danvers were swapped over to DC for Wonder Woman, DC would have Carol Danvers perform in the same way they have Wonder Woman perform, at least in the way Wonder Woman performed during those periods that I mentioned. As a matter of fact, I think the two companies swapping these two characters on a lender's basis would be an interesting idea, to see how each company would handle each character.

    If Marvel thought Wonder Woman could match or beat all of their top tier characters than they would have created such a female character about the time they created Carol Danvers and would have adapted her the same way they've adapted characters like the Hulk; actually, them not adjusting Carol's power levels in such a way is an indication; DC clearly starting adjusting Wonder Woman's power level at some point either near (e.g. something that gave Rucka his inspiration) or during Rucka's run; I think the first attempt at adjusting her power level occurred with John Byrne, but was quickly abandoned after his run, if not during his run (e.g. adjusting her power level and than killing her off). And I do think constantly adjusting the Hulk's power level is a bad thing (e.g. World War Hulk). I liked the X-Men TAS from the 1990s and I really don't like just how far Marvel has deviated from that image of the X-Men; as a matter of fact, I thought X-Men Evolution was a bad sequel to the X-Men, just like Star Trek Enterprise was a bad sequel in the Star Trek franchise; they were ok ideas once they grow on you and was not a deal breaker, but I'd have preferred not seeing a prequel. But, the X-Men franchise has been successful since X-Men TAS and I'm happy for it, but I just cannot seem to find away to get as attached to it as I once was, likely because Apocalypse is no longer their apex villain and his character in the comics was discovered to be so different from his character in X-Men TAS

    Personally I think the comparison to Carol Danvers is a weak one. Superficially they have some similarities ... military background, flying and super strength/invulnerability. But that's about where the similarity ends. I like both characters, but I see Danvers being much more like Black Canary than WW when you get down to who she is as a person and the way she reacts to situations. There is a sense of "proving herself" as the equal of her male counterparts as opposed to being an example of what a woman can be ...

    I don't actually think Marvel wants a WW type of character ... if they did they would have just created their own version of her (Power Princess) and found a place for her within the Marvel Universe. Instead they seem to have a variety of female leads who have pieces of WW incorporated. She-Hulk is the raw power, Sue Storm the heart, Storm the leader, Carol the warrior etc ...

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    dshipp17

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    #77  Edited By dshipp17

    @csg_cl said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @outside_85 said:

    I couldn't imagine Diana could be exported into the Marvel U without some drastic changes to her character since she is one of those superhuman exemplars Marvel likes to take potshots at for not seeming like a real person aka not having any internal problems she can fight with in her off-time.

    Add to this, I would worry they would also tamper with her powers or just their level to not make her a threat to their traditional powerhouses. Because unlike Sentry and Hyperion, Diana is just too big a name for Marvel to send her off into limbo if they cant think of anything to do with her.

    Marvel would simply replace Captain Marvel, Carol Danvers, with Wonder Woman. It's already been pointed out several times by several different people that Carol Danvers is Marvel's version of Wonder Woman. Marvel would than have to find out how to make Carol Danvers fit in Wonder Woman's presence in the Marvel Universe. And even accurately still, Wonder Woman would be like 90s Rogue from the X-Men animated series in terms of power level. Done this way, Marvel would demonstrate to DC how Wonder Woman should have always been handled.

    Similarly, if Superman were to be sent to the Marvel Universe, he'd be placed in the power level of a character like The Thing.

    False. Marvel has powerhouses in strength class way above Ms Marvel and The Thing. Nothing suggests that Superman would be only as powerful as the thing when Superman has a lot of powers the thing hasn't including super speed. rogue with Ms Marvel power was only a 50 tonner with sonic speed. WW has always been in all versions way stronger and faster than that. Way more durable as well. Nothing nothing suggests Marvel would keep WW at that level. WW is way above Ms Marvel in power level. If we go by the way Marvel handles their females then WW would be(at the very least)like She-Hulk in strength(the strongest female in Marvel in terms of raw strength)who happens to be stronger than the thing and Superman would be like Gladiator in strength,who happens to be Marvel's Superman.

    And on top of it all. This is only your oppinion about how these characters should be handled. Nothing suggests that WW should be a mid tier(that is what 90s rogue and ms marvel are). WW has always been a top tier and has worked very well. I don't understand why you think that lowering power levels has anything to do with the quality of the stories. You can have good stories with very powerful characters and find real threats that push them to the limits. You can believe whatever you want but please don't act like your oppinion is the ultimate truth about how powerful she should be.

    What I said is not false at all. This is a matter of how Wonder Woman would be reflected in the Marvel Universe, not how you envision her. It doesn't matter that Marvel has powerhouses above Captain Marvel, because they have nothing to do with Wonder Woman. All versions of Wonder Woman have not been depicted as way stronger than Ms. Marvel nor more durable. I disagree that Wonder Woman should be handled like She-Hulk. Superman should not be like Gladiator, since I've seen the likes of Juggernaut just bounce off him, where Juggernaut could handle the Hulk. I'm not lowering Wonder Woman's power level, they've just been inflated since about Greg Rucka's run and very inconsistently since than.

    I want to see Wonder Woman's power level being depicted in line with what the vast majority of her stories show; it's not about reducing her power level; it's actually returning her power levels to what they were before certain writers took over her book. That would be approximately all of the stories between about 1957 through 1985, followed by the Messner-Loebs run, skipping John Byrne, than skipping Rucka and the writers after words. Azzarello's run actually implies that only "gods" and supernatural beings are strong enough for Wonder Woman and I disagree; Meredith Finch appeared to get back on track when Wonder Woman encountered Swamp Thing but I'm not all that familiar with Swamp Thing. I see that DC was trying to redefine Wonder Woman's feats, starting with Rucka, albeit inconsistently, but I think those efforts should be stopped. These suggestions are but one component to shaping good Wonder Woman stories. The other would be changing the tone of her stories. Level down on this Greek Mythology bit; look into stories that involve characters like Dejah Thoris and shape her stories with this tone; bring in Dr. Psycho; in other words, replace the concentration on Greek Mythology with a concentration on Dr. Psycho. There are a host of other suggestions, but these are a start. The focus on Greek Mythology has had its day so it needs to be cut loose for a while.

    I'm entitled to share my opinion about what I think is helpful for the character as much as you share your opinion. I'm giving more extensive suggestions outside of trying to make her display strength feats because Superman is showing his strength. Wonder Woman is a more versatile character than trying to show how strong she is relative to Superman; besides, Superman is a man and Wonder Woman is a woman; therefore, the focus of her stories should involved a different tone; the strength feats is more of a male tone; it's actually as basic as that, making the tone of her stories different from the tone of both Superman and Batman stories.

    WW has been way stronger and way more durable than ms marvel in all versions. Every version of WW has better feats than Ms Marvel. There is literally no comic version of Diana that wouldn't clean the floor with Ms Marvel. I know this because i know Diana feats from every run just like i know all of Carol feats.

    Superman is about justice and hope and figths aliens. Batman is about tragedy and fighting crime. WW is about truth,empathy and mythology. Of course not all of her stories must be around mythology but there is no need to reduce her power for that. Of course WW should face gods and super natural beings when it comes to the face to face battles. You can't expect peak humans to be a threat to her physically. Dr Psycho can't be used as a direct threat. He would have to be used as somebody that moves from the distance to hurt her and her love ones since he can't hurt her physically. And that is a good thing. It's good to have different villans that are athreat in different ways. Somebody that challenges her mind rather than her physical powers. So no need to reduce her power level. All characters have inconsistencies. Hulk has a lot of them too. Ruka didn't inflate her strength. On the contrary her strength has been reducerd over time. Golden Age WW strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Any other version of the character. You said that they should respect Marston vision more. Well you better remember that Marston wanted her to be extremily strong and durable and with the potential to grow stronger over time. So she should never be limited because it goes against a very importat part of her character. Her character has always shown to grow stronger as she faces new challenges and keeps on training. It wouldn't be right to take that away from her limiting her to stay always on the same level. The fact that she improves and gets stronger over time it's one of the best and most interesting things about her character. And it has a great meaning related to how we have to face different challenges in life and grow stronger. Marston certainly knew what he was doing.

    I do want Wonder Woman returned to Marston's vision of her. Marston included features you liked about her and other features that I liked about her. As far as her feats, Marston had her out racing cars, not going faster than light, so I don't think that was intended; as far as strength, she was uprooting trees, not helping to move the Earth; I think this is about where she should be returned; she's more like Carol Danvers in every way, thinking back on this. I want all of the weaknesses returned in relation to the lasso being used by villains and chaining her bracelets together by villains. Yes, I want her empathy for people to be kind of a weakness that Dr. Psycho can exploit to chain her bracelets together and use the lasso against her. We can than modernize those stories from Marston's run. Dr. Psycho should be able to mess with her mentally. It's not confirmed that Dr. Psycho's powers cannot affect Wonder Woman in the New 52, so they should work on her, although, as a compromise, just not as effectively as they would work on others, something along the lines of that New Sensations issue a few months ago; in other wards, somewhere between where they affected Superman, but could not affect the Martian Manhunter, although, thinking about it, there's just simply no reason that his powers should not work on her; I believe Marston intended for Dr. Psycho's powers to work on her and for him to represent a psychological threat; Marston's time was cut short before he could really develop the dynamics between Dr. Psycho and Wonder Woman, where the following writer seems to have scrapped the idea completely, robbing us of Wonder Woman's Lex Luthor and Joker. I think Dr. Psycho's powers should work to force writers to come up with creative ways for her to eventually defeat him and his plans, at least.

    Again, I think Carol Danvers is Wonder Woman in the Marvel universe; her feats being different in those runs that I pointed out is simply showing that DC handles her differently than how I suspect Marvel would handle her; Marvel's handling of Carol Danvers is a clear indication of how they would mostly likely handle Wonder Woman, although with a few differences; I believe that if Carol Danvers were swapped over to DC for Wonder Woman, DC would have Carol Danvers perform in the same way they have Wonder Woman perform, at least in the way Wonder Woman performed during those periods that I mentioned. As a matter of fact, I think the two companies swapping these two characters on a lender's basis would be an interesting idea, to see how each company would handle each character.

    If Marvel thought Wonder Woman could match or beat all of their top tier characters than they would have created such a female character about the time they created Carol Danvers and would have adapted her the same way they've adapted characters like the Hulk; actually, them not adjusting Carol's power levels in such a way is an indication; DC clearly starting adjusting Wonder Woman's power level at some point either near (e.g. something that gave Rucka his inspiration) or during Rucka's run; I think the first attempt at adjusting her power level occurred with John Byrne, but was quickly abandoned after his run, if not during his run (e.g. adjusting her power level and than killing her off). And I do think constantly adjusting the Hulk's power level is a bad thing (e.g. World War Hulk). I liked the X-Men TAS from the 1990s and I really don't like just how far Marvel has deviated from that image of the X-Men; as a matter of fact, I thought X-Men Evolution was a bad sequel to the X-Men, just like Star Trek Enterprise was a bad sequel in the Star Trek franchise; they were ok ideas once they grow on you and was not a deal breaker, but I'd have preferred not seeing a prequel. But, the X-Men franchise has been successful since X-Men TAS and I'm happy for it, but I just cannot seem to find away to get as attached to it as I once was, likely because Apocalypse is no longer their apex villain and his character in the comics was discovered to be so different from his character in X-Men TAS

    Personally I think the comparison to Carol Danvers is a weak one. Superficially they have some similarities ... military background, flying and super strength/invulnerability. But that's about where the similarity ends. I like both characters, but I see Danvers being much more like Black Canary than WW when you get down to who she is as a person and the way she reacts to situations. There is a sense of "proving herself" as the equal of her male counterparts as opposed to being an example of what a woman can be ...

    I don't actually think Marvel wants a WW type of character ... if they did they would have just created their own version of her (Power Princess) and found a place for her within the Marvel Universe. Instead they seem to have a variety of female leads who have pieces of WW incorporated. She-Hulk is the raw power, Sue Storm the heart, Storm the leader, Carol the warrior etc ...

    I agree that the comparison is somewhat superficial; there are more differences than similarities, but strength feats is one of those similarities and kind of a big one. Carol having a military background is a wide difference between the two characters; although both are warrior related, it's kind of like one vision, you think of a sword welding warrior, while the other, you think of the marines, air force, and navy. I believe these differences are probably necessary for Marvel to maintain a lasting character; I believe that's the reason that Power Princess was put on the self, she was just a little too close for Marvel's comfort, as Power Princess's power got amped up in comparison to Carol Danvers.

    But, I think any personality attributes of Wonder Woman are all captured by Carol Danvers: from my perspective, Wonder Woman is trying to be equal or greater to her male counterparts, in the way of the Amazons; I think this goal is a bit stronger than her trying to be an example to women, although there's not much difference between the two. Carol captures Wonder Woman's raw power, as well. She-Hulk is more like a Wonder Woman bodyguard. Sue Storm is a little too soft to be compared to Wonder Woman and even a character like Dejah Thoris, who I think would be better at capturing a personality for Wonder Woman, at least once the rough edges are smooth over by character development from an expected Amazon maturing into the outside world, as opposed to this character that's already ready made for the world outside of Paradise Island. Although she may have some of the personality qualities of Storm, (I'd expect a character like Wolverine to be closer, at this stage of Wonder Woman's development), Wonder Woman is closer to Dejah Thoris, as a leader, than Storm, as a leader; this is so, because Wonder Woman has never really been placed in a leadership position; and, if she were, I think modeling the leadership qualities of Dejah Thoris would fit better (e.g. be comfortable leading from behind and having the adaptability to lead from in front; this is kind of what Wonder Woman has to do with the Justice League, except she's never had to lead the group, at least from my familiarity with the Justice League; I might be wrong in that she's never had to lead the Justice League; I'm speaking of when Batman, Superman, and Martian Manhunter are present in the group); Wonder Woman is just starting out in the position with her now being required to lead the Amazons; from this position, you can see her falling towards Dejah Thoris, except her personality is a bit rougher, or she doesn't care about the role as much; you can start to notice that her empathy for outs is not as deep as people where thinking beforehand; Dejah Thoris' empathy is deeper (e.g. and connecting with and working with her antagonists, the Green Men of Mars).

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    ZhuRong

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    @csg_cl: I would say Gamora or Angela are the warriors. Carol is more like the spirit. I agree with all your points though. Look at the people Wonder Woman has beaten compared to Carol then it would be ridiculous to think Carol can match Diana at all. It depends on what we consider to be Marvel's "Wonder Woman". Based on popularity, we can say Storm or we can say Angela since she is basically what New 52 Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman might not be a one of a kind character but she is definitely a good representation of female heroes.

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    Muffin_Sangria

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    #79  Edited By Muffin_Sangria

    I'm more curious about Disney having the rights to Wonder Woman. I'd be all for an animated princess movie about Diana.

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    CSG_CL

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    @dshipp17 said:

    @csg_cl said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17 said:

    @outside_85 said:

    I couldn't imagine Diana could be exported into the Marvel U without some drastic changes to her character since she is one of those superhuman exemplars Marvel likes to take potshots at for not seeming like a real person aka not having any internal problems she can fight with in her off-time.

    Add to this, I would worry they would also tamper with her powers or just their level to not make her a threat to their traditional powerhouses. Because unlike Sentry and Hyperion, Diana is just too big a name for Marvel to send her off into limbo if they cant think of anything to do with her.

    Marvel would simply replace Captain Marvel, Carol Danvers, with Wonder Woman. It's already been pointed out several times by several different people that Carol Danvers is Marvel's version of Wonder Woman. Marvel would than have to find out how to make Carol Danvers fit in Wonder Woman's presence in the Marvel Universe. And even accurately still, Wonder Woman would be like 90s Rogue from the X-Men animated series in terms of power level. Done this way, Marvel would demonstrate to DC how Wonder Woman should have always been handled.

    Similarly, if Superman were to be sent to the Marvel Universe, he'd be placed in the power level of a character like The Thing.

    False. Marvel has powerhouses in strength class way above Ms Marvel and The Thing. Nothing suggests that Superman would be only as powerful as the thing when Superman has a lot of powers the thing hasn't including super speed. rogue with Ms Marvel power was only a 50 tonner with sonic speed. WW has always been in all versions way stronger and faster than that. Way more durable as well. Nothing nothing suggests Marvel would keep WW at that level. WW is way above Ms Marvel in power level. If we go by the way Marvel handles their females then WW would be(at the very least)like She-Hulk in strength(the strongest female in Marvel in terms of raw strength)who happens to be stronger than the thing and Superman would be like Gladiator in strength,who happens to be Marvel's Superman.

    And on top of it all. This is only your oppinion about how these characters should be handled. Nothing suggests that WW should be a mid tier(that is what 90s rogue and ms marvel are). WW has always been a top tier and has worked very well. I don't understand why you think that lowering power levels has anything to do with the quality of the stories. You can have good stories with very powerful characters and find real threats that push them to the limits. You can believe whatever you want but please don't act like your oppinion is the ultimate truth about how powerful she should be.

    What I said is not false at all. This is a matter of how Wonder Woman would be reflected in the Marvel Universe, not how you envision her. It doesn't matter that Marvel has powerhouses above Captain Marvel, because they have nothing to do with Wonder Woman. All versions of Wonder Woman have not been depicted as way stronger than Ms. Marvel nor more durable. I disagree that Wonder Woman should be handled like She-Hulk. Superman should not be like Gladiator, since I've seen the likes of Juggernaut just bounce off him, where Juggernaut could handle the Hulk. I'm not lowering Wonder Woman's power level, they've just been inflated since about Greg Rucka's run and very inconsistently since than.

    I want to see Wonder Woman's power level being depicted in line with what the vast majority of her stories show; it's not about reducing her power level; it's actually returning her power levels to what they were before certain writers took over her book. That would be approximately all of the stories between about 1957 through 1985, followed by the Messner-Loebs run, skipping John Byrne, than skipping Rucka and the writers after words. Azzarello's run actually implies that only "gods" and supernatural beings are strong enough for Wonder Woman and I disagree; Meredith Finch appeared to get back on track when Wonder Woman encountered Swamp Thing but I'm not all that familiar with Swamp Thing. I see that DC was trying to redefine Wonder Woman's feats, starting with Rucka, albeit inconsistently, but I think those efforts should be stopped. These suggestions are but one component to shaping good Wonder Woman stories. The other would be changing the tone of her stories. Level down on this Greek Mythology bit; look into stories that involve characters like Dejah Thoris and shape her stories with this tone; bring in Dr. Psycho; in other words, replace the concentration on Greek Mythology with a concentration on Dr. Psycho. There are a host of other suggestions, but these are a start. The focus on Greek Mythology has had its day so it needs to be cut loose for a while.

    I'm entitled to share my opinion about what I think is helpful for the character as much as you share your opinion. I'm giving more extensive suggestions outside of trying to make her display strength feats because Superman is showing his strength. Wonder Woman is a more versatile character than trying to show how strong she is relative to Superman; besides, Superman is a man and Wonder Woman is a woman; therefore, the focus of her stories should involved a different tone; the strength feats is more of a male tone; it's actually as basic as that, making the tone of her stories different from the tone of both Superman and Batman stories.

    WW has been way stronger and way more durable than ms marvel in all versions. Every version of WW has better feats than Ms Marvel. There is literally no comic version of Diana that wouldn't clean the floor with Ms Marvel. I know this because i know Diana feats from every run just like i know all of Carol feats.

    Superman is about justice and hope and figths aliens. Batman is about tragedy and fighting crime. WW is about truth,empathy and mythology. Of course not all of her stories must be around mythology but there is no need to reduce her power for that. Of course WW should face gods and super natural beings when it comes to the face to face battles. You can't expect peak humans to be a threat to her physically. Dr Psycho can't be used as a direct threat. He would have to be used as somebody that moves from the distance to hurt her and her love ones since he can't hurt her physically. And that is a good thing. It's good to have different villans that are athreat in different ways. Somebody that challenges her mind rather than her physical powers. So no need to reduce her power level. All characters have inconsistencies. Hulk has a lot of them too. Ruka didn't inflate her strength. On the contrary her strength has been reducerd over time. Golden Age WW strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Any other version of the character. You said that they should respect Marston vision more. Well you better remember that Marston wanted her to be extremily strong and durable and with the potential to grow stronger over time. So she should never be limited because it goes against a very importat part of her character. Her character has always shown to grow stronger as she faces new challenges and keeps on training. It wouldn't be right to take that away from her limiting her to stay always on the same level. The fact that she improves and gets stronger over time it's one of the best and most interesting things about her character. And it has a great meaning related to how we have to face different challenges in life and grow stronger. Marston certainly knew what he was doing.

    I do want Wonder Woman returned to Marston's vision of her. Marston included features you liked about her and other features that I liked about her. As far as her feats, Marston had her out racing cars, not going faster than light, so I don't think that was intended; as far as strength, she was uprooting trees, not helping to move the Earth; I think this is about where she should be returned; she's more like Carol Danvers in every way, thinking back on this. I want all of the weaknesses returned in relation to the lasso being used by villains and chaining her bracelets together by villains. Yes, I want her empathy for people to be kind of a weakness that Dr. Psycho can exploit to chain her bracelets together and use the lasso against her. We can than modernize those stories from Marston's run. Dr. Psycho should be able to mess with her mentally. It's not confirmed that Dr. Psycho's powers cannot affect Wonder Woman in the New 52, so they should work on her, although, as a compromise, just not as effectively as they would work on others, something along the lines of that New Sensations issue a few months ago; in other wards, somewhere between where they affected Superman, but could not affect the Martian Manhunter, although, thinking about it, there's just simply no reason that his powers should not work on her; I believe Marston intended for Dr. Psycho's powers to work on her and for him to represent a psychological threat; Marston's time was cut short before he could really develop the dynamics between Dr. Psycho and Wonder Woman, where the following writer seems to have scrapped the idea completely, robbing us of Wonder Woman's Lex Luthor and Joker. I think Dr. Psycho's powers should work to force writers to come up with creative ways for her to eventually defeat him and his plans, at least.

    Again, I think Carol Danvers is Wonder Woman in the Marvel universe; her feats being different in those runs that I pointed out is simply showing that DC handles her differently than how I suspect Marvel would handle her; Marvel's handling of Carol Danvers is a clear indication of how they would mostly likely handle Wonder Woman, although with a few differences; I believe that if Carol Danvers were swapped over to DC for Wonder Woman, DC would have Carol Danvers perform in the same way they have Wonder Woman perform, at least in the way Wonder Woman performed during those periods that I mentioned. As a matter of fact, I think the two companies swapping these two characters on a lender's basis would be an interesting idea, to see how each company would handle each character.

    If Marvel thought Wonder Woman could match or beat all of their top tier characters than they would have created such a female character about the time they created Carol Danvers and would have adapted her the same way they've adapted characters like the Hulk; actually, them not adjusting Carol's power levels in such a way is an indication; DC clearly starting adjusting Wonder Woman's power level at some point either near (e.g. something that gave Rucka his inspiration) or during Rucka's run; I think the first attempt at adjusting her power level occurred with John Byrne, but was quickly abandoned after his run, if not during his run (e.g. adjusting her power level and than killing her off). And I do think constantly adjusting the Hulk's power level is a bad thing (e.g. World War Hulk). I liked the X-Men TAS from the 1990s and I really don't like just how far Marvel has deviated from that image of the X-Men; as a matter of fact, I thought X-Men Evolution was a bad sequel to the X-Men, just like Star Trek Enterprise was a bad sequel in the Star Trek franchise; they were ok ideas once they grow on you and was not a deal breaker, but I'd have preferred not seeing a prequel. But, the X-Men franchise has been successful since X-Men TAS and I'm happy for it, but I just cannot seem to find away to get as attached to it as I once was, likely because Apocalypse is no longer their apex villain and his character in the comics was discovered to be so different from his character in X-Men TAS

    Personally I think the comparison to Carol Danvers is a weak one. Superficially they have some similarities ... military background, flying and super strength/invulnerability. But that's about where the similarity ends. I like both characters, but I see Danvers being much more like Black Canary than WW when you get down to who she is as a person and the way she reacts to situations. There is a sense of "proving herself" as the equal of her male counterparts as opposed to being an example of what a woman can be ...

    I don't actually think Marvel wants a WW type of character ... if they did they would have just created their own version of her (Power Princess) and found a place for her within the Marvel Universe. Instead they seem to have a variety of female leads who have pieces of WW incorporated. She-Hulk is the raw power, Sue Storm the heart, Storm the leader, Carol the warrior etc ...

    I agree that the comparison is somewhat superficial; there are more differences than similarities, but strength feats is one of those similarities and kind of a big one. Carol having a military background is a wide difference between the two characters; although both are warrior related, it's kind of like one vision, you think of a sword welding warrior, while the other, you think of the marines, air force, and navy. I believe these differences are probably necessary for Marvel to maintain a lasting character; I believe that's the reason that Power Princess was put on the self, she was just a little too close for Marvel's comfort, as Power Princess's power got amped up in comparison to Carol Danvers.

    But, I think any personality attributes of Wonder Woman are all captured by Carol Danvers: from my perspective, Wonder Woman is trying to be equal or greater to her male counterparts, in the way of the Amazons; I think this goal is a bit stronger than her trying to be an example to women, although there's not much difference between the two. Carol captures Wonder Woman's raw power, as well. She-Hulk is more like a Wonder Woman bodyguard. Sue Storm is a little too soft to be compared to Wonder Woman and even a character like Dejah Thoris, who I think would be better at capturing a personality for Wonder Woman, at least once the rough edges are smooth over by character development from an expected Amazon maturing into the outside world, as opposed to this character that's already ready made for the world outside of Paradise Island. Although she may have some of the personality qualities of Storm, (I'd expect a character like Wolverine to be closer, at this stage of Wonder Woman's development), Wonder Woman is closer to Dejah Thoris, as a leader, than Storm, as a leader; this is so, because Wonder Woman has never really been placed in a leadership position; and, if she were, I think modeling the leadership qualities of Dejah Thoris would fit better (e.g. be comfortable leading from behind and having the adaptability to lead from in front; this is kind of what Wonder Woman has to do with the Justice League, except she's never had to lead the group, at least from my familiarity with the Justice League; I might be wrong in that she's never had to lead the Justice League; I'm speaking of when Batman, Superman, and Martian Manhunter are present in the group); Wonder Woman is just starting out in the position with her now being required to lead the Amazons; from this position, you can see her falling towards Dejah Thoris, except her personality is a bit rougher, or she doesn't care about the role as much; you can start to notice that her empathy for outs is not as deep as people where thinking beforehand; Dejah Thoris' empathy is deeper (e.g. and connecting with and working with her antagonists, the Green Men of Mars).

    I think you are sort of missing the point I was getting at ... the specific characters I mentioned could certainly be replaced by literally dozens of other characters because Marvel has used elements such as "leadership" and "compassion" or "powerhouse" as building blocks for many characters ... take your pick I won't argue who does what better, I don't think these characters are in anyway based off of WW. The point is that WW is an embodiment of a great many ideals. By design she was created to show the ultimate potential of a woman ... Compassionate, Strong, Brilliant, Loving, Skilled (in many things, fighting, athletics, science, art, leadership ... to say she isn't a leader within the JL and as an Amazon and Ambassador would be incorrect).

    I see almost zero correlation between her and Carol aside from a potential desire from Marvel to elevate Carol into a "premier female" role within the MU. She's, IMO, a vastly different representation ... perhaps more modern ... of the ultimate woman. She's much more the woman in a man's world archetype ... fighting to prove that she is at least as capable as the men, breaking through a glass ceiling and all that. Diana is a representation of a woman from a woman's world, granted the N52 has muddied that by "masculizing" (sorry I made up a word here) the Amazons, but that doesn't change that for 70 years WW stood outside of typical male dominated cultural norms. Carol, on the flip side, has always been about overcoming typical male dominated cultural norms. It's quite different when you think about it.

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    CSG_CL

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    I'm more curious about Disney having the rights to Wonder Woman. I'd be all for an animated princess movie about Diana.

    Mulan?

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    TheGoddess

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    @csg_cl said:

    @muffin_sangria said:

    I'm more curious about Disney having the rights to Wonder Woman. I'd be all for an animated princess movie about Diana.

    Mulan?

    -_________-

    Their stories aren't really alike. WW would never pose as a man. She has too much pride,and she loves being a powerful woman

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    TheGoddess

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    #83  Edited By TheGoddess

    and if anything, Diana's Marvel Counterpart is Storm.

    They both come from "exotic" lands

    Both are Princesses

    Both Take heavy Leadership roles amongst a team FULL of men

    Powerful enough to hang with guys who are quote on quote "heavy hitters"

    Have Goddess personas

    They are highly valued by their respected teams

    They didn't branch off from any male counterparts i.e( Supergirl,She-Hulk, Ms.Marvel)

    and have overall similar morals and personality traits..

    Very statuesque/tall women

    They both Wear tiaras

    but now were just getting into silly reasons..my point still stands

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    dshipp17

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    @agent41 said:

    @dshipp17: Ms Marvel at full power(binary) is a planet buster. So why should WW below that?. WW was intrduced by Marston as so powerful that her bracelets are used to hold most of her power back. Byrne or Ruka didn't make WW more power. Marston wanted WW to be as strong as Superman. Those are his own words. Maraston WW was way stronger than lifting trees and way faster than speeding cars. Every version of WW has better feats than Ms Marvel.

    Marston WW examples of strength and speed.

    Strength. Don't even make post Marston WW moving the moon. He stated that his Diana could grow stronger over time by training her mind. His version of WW and the amazons was focused in showing that they could do anything if they put their mind to it. All their huge physical power was a result of constant mental training. This concept remains the same. Ev en during Perez and the runs after his. We have seen all writers establish that she grows stronger over time as she keeps on training and faces new challenges. It's a concept that Marston introduced and has bbeen with the character since then.

    Anyway. Marston WW average strength feats are way above 100 tons. Some examples.

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    Speed. Way faster than speeding cars.

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    Different runs After Marston.

    Steength. Still way above Ms Marvel feats.

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    Speed.

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    Before Ruka.

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    I don't think i need to post feats for Perez run and massner-loebs runs because if you know those runs then you know that WW has better feats than Ms Marvel in those runs as well.

    In Marston's time, Superman was faster than a speeding bullet and was able to leap tall buildings in a single bound; he did want Wonder Woman to be equal to that Superman. So, Carol Danvers, in the form of 90s Rogue could keep up with Wonder Woman. Again, Marvel is just less concerned with depicting Carol Danvers performing strength feats. As I said, Marvel would handle Wonder Woman differently, while DC would handle Carol Danvers differently. Thanks for the scans, because I was expecting them to be loaded with the recent anomalies concerning her feats, although some of those scans are anomalies.

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    CSG_CL

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    #88  Edited By CSG_CL

    @thegoddess: I think you missed the joke I was making :)

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    Muffin_Sangria

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    She and Captain America would be the perfect romantic match. Steve Rogers and Diana Prince.

    That's why I've always liked to see Steve Trevor as the Captain America of the DC universe. They are pretty inconstant with his personality with sometimes trying to turn him into a cocky jokester like Hal Jordan, or a no nonsense super spy like Nick Fury, but the only times he actually has good chemistry with Diana is when they write him as a bleeding heart patriot along the same lines as Captain America.

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    TheBlondeGod

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    With her distinction of character, I don't think they'd be able to handle her purposely rather forcibly.

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    captain_batman_FTW

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    No. Not now. Not ever.

    As long as Bendis is a writer for Marvel, no great DC character shall be there.

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    brock4618

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    Guys, you're forgot to put someone on the list. The Black Panther. The Wakandian King and The Amazonian Princess both come from two ancient secluded nations that separated themselves from the rest of the world. T'challa, would get a free pass to Paradise Island the moment he first comes out with his female bodyguards. They would see that and instantly have respect for him especially Diana.

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    samgee

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    She would join The Avengers =)

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