Based on what is depicted, not assumed, from the current WW series-- what does Azzarello like about WW? What shows in his depiction that conveys what he favors about the character herself, not any other character in the cast or the story-- but the actual character?

Loldisgonnabegood

That's a weird question, there might be nothing he likes about her, or there can be a bunch of things that we can't imply from reading the comics.

Maybe he likes the fact she is a great fighter? That she knows how to show mercy and compassion even to her enemies? That she is a natural leader? That she knows fighting is not the only answer to a dispute? I don't know.

Maybe he likes what I like the most about his Wonder Woman: One, The incredible impact Diana has on the people around her. And two, the fact that she accepts who she is but at the same time tries to be better.

Thanks. I do not want to argue this point or see it go that way.

I honestly want to know people's perceptions on where they see a like for the character herself based on the writing at hand.

For instance, Joss Whedon's love for Buffy shows in how he presents her, the way he depicts her dealing with challenges, making mistakes, being human and maintaining the integrity of her character. Same could be said for Perez love of the New Teen Titans with the detail, breakdown of moments and sheer development of the characters in each story and over time. I feel a writer may focus more on plot than character if there is no real connection to the character.

More feedback...

I actually think WW #0 is not bad. The way she disagreed with War and the fact that she is a warrior. I don't know if Azz likes her, I myself am fond of her in that issue. The art was good as well, she was adorable, just like an honorable young warrior with a humble and kind heart.

Well, that's not a problem...

@snascimento:

What I am emphasizing with plot over character writing is the increased opportunity to sacrifice the integrity of the character to make the plot work. This may damage the character when the character normally survives longer than a giving plot.

Hope that clarifies my point in that statement.

@sinisteri: And you believe that's happening in Wonder Woman?

This forum actually make me wondering what Azz is trying to deliver. Is he trying to tell a story of WW, empowering her to be the representation of something deep, or just trying to tell a mythological story that is exciting and entertaining.

Perhaps this one of the reason why WW fans are arguing? Some of us want to see some 'meaning' of the story, some of us just want to hear a tale?

@snascimento:

I do believe the plot over character perspective is contributing to the disconnect for some of us.

I have said before that the story itself is not a bad story. It is a journey I would love to take if it was following a new and separate character. A character who I would not expect to move from adventure to distinctly separate adventure and/or see a system of seemingly distinct stories be tied together for an overall impact in a larger, umbrella story.

Plot driven stories most times call for character changes to past, integrity, intelligence, etc. to make the plot work. Think of a soap or tv character who is the darling of the town, maybe the voice of reason for months or years, and all of a sudden the darling is revealed to have birth a secret child off camera during the time the series has aired or suddenly capable of committing a heinous act that makes no sense except to move the plot. Then after the plot, this character is no longer viable in the story in the way that benefits the bigger story.

I know this is a side point though, but I like what I feel is a less argumentative dialogue.

he likes her compassion, the power of change people around her.

her bust

@wolverine08 your video skills may be needed here

He seems to really like this story though. I mean, the same arc has been going on for 24 issues with this damn baby.

Heritage. If there's one thing Azzarello strengthened about WW (imo there are several things) it's where WW came from. She's no longer a clay doll brought to life by the gods, instead she's a bastard daughter of Zeus, a demi-god in her own right. Half-sister to Hercules, niece of Athena, Ares, Apollo, etc. He's taken the element of Greek Mythology, which has always been present for WW, and made it even more of a contributor to who WW is. And as an added bonus, the Greek Mythology he's using is a lot closer to the real thing than it's ever been in the past.

@hecktate:

Thanks for contributing. I have to ask in what way are the new 52 gods portrayed more closer than ever to their established mythology than ever before?

I do not remember Ares/Mars/War giving up on starting or participating in wars or desiring his death at the hands of a female because he knew he would lose-- or expecting to lose. Or commanded the dead which is the distinct power of Hades.

It is also interesting that the full pantheon has never assembled in this version.

Hera's jealousy is full swing.

Previously, Ares was all about war, deceit and stirring up conflict, full pantheon would assemble, some were benefactors to the Amazons explaining the immortality and strong ties between the Amazons and gods, and prophesy or trend of newer generation tackling older generation was demonstrated in stories between New Gods and Olympians, Ares and Hades, Athena and Zeus.

On this aside, just trying to see how the gods appear more traditional or closer to mythology than ever before to you?

@sinisteri: The pre52 versions were more or less just personifications of certain aspects of humanity (intelligence, war, beauty, etc) with very one-dimensional personalities. As you said, Ares used to be all about war and conflict, with little care for who the winners were so long as it created strife, and as you said, he does a lot of scheming before 52 (which is really Hera's place, she actually cripples Hephaestus by throwing him off Olympus as a baby, and devises the 12 Labors of Hercules as a means of deterring him from godhood after already driving him insane and causing him to kill his six children). In Greek Mythology Ares is not evil. He's both loved and hated because war brings valor and glory, but also obviously has some negative stuff associated with it (Ares actually rode into battle on a chariot driven by the twin horses Phobos and Deimos or Fear and Terror). Despite the Greeks' mixed reactions to him, the rest of the Pantheon didn't like Ares so much. In the Iliad Zeus tells Ares that of all his sons Ares is the most useless. And actually, Ares sides with the Trojans in the Iliad and is defeated by the Greeks when Odysseus outsmarts the Trojans, symbolizing that intelligence is actually superior to strength.

You can see these things mirrored in Azzarello's WW run: WW is a warrior, but one dedicated to peace and order, so right off the bat she embodies the dichotomy the Greeks saw in Ares, and you see this idea brought to its peak when she kills Ares. At that point there were two branches from the character perspective: either First Born becomes the God of War and uses the power for chaos and destruction, or WW does her thing and goes for order and peace, using war as the tool the Greeks saw it as instead of the pre52 model which depicted war as just base conflict which was often unnecessary.

There's also more depth into the fate vs freewill discussion in Azz's run, which was HUGE to the Greeks. First Born is banished after it's prophesied to Zeus that FB will overtake him, so Zeus makes moves to undo this future but it's this very action which ends up causing what he was seeking to prevent. That's basically Oedipus, and a ton of other Greek plays which revolve around the question "Do we have free will?" Of course in Greek mythology it's a firm NO, Fate is personified as the Moirai: Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos, and they determine your entire life at the moment of birth. But this not being a direct parallel, we see WW struggle with the same ideas: is she obligated to follow certain paths destiny has laid out for her, or can she find her own place in the world?

Most of these things were addressed in previous runs, but to a lesser extent and usually with less divine characters driving the plot. The way Azz tells it makes it hit a lot closer to home: this is WW's family, they have actual personality, play necessary parts in maintaining order within the world, yet are not above pettiness and other negative human emotions, and are themselves bound by certain powers beyond their control. Just her being related allows you to see the gods in a more human light instead of just as powerful forces at constant odds with one another.

@hecktate:

Well spoken. However, I did not see the pre- new 52 gods as so one dimensional. I loved the concept and follow up of the WW centric theme of some of the female gods allying themselves bit only to save the Amazons but help give life to Diana. Their act seemed to put them at odds with Zeus in the process also giving conflict to Athena's warriors versus Ares' many subjects. This theme actually culminated as Ares gained the addition of Hades throne and power- which logically gave him control of the dead and Athena taking the throne from Zeus.

I also really liked Hermes crush and unrequited love of Diana, the original idea of a conflict between the Roman and Greek pantheons as well as the repeated involvement of the New Gods and the reason the Olympian pantheon was split.

Ares taking human form in a overarching storyline that resulted in a daughter with an also human Circe, and the burgeoning story of both of them plotting to get their child from Athena's warriors, the Amazons, was wonderfully inspired.

Plus the way the religion affected various Amazons was beautifully conveyed.

I must say I did not find these gods one dimensional and enjoyed their depiction.

He doesn't like her friends or foes very much. Instead of getting appearance from the JLA or her rogues, we get Seinfeld (the pantheon of gods) and Friends (WW's clique) .

but is still the best story ever done for WW,according to 20.000 people in the Us that buy that huge top 45 hit title...........................SAD.

From what I can get just from the surface, Azzarello seems to like, or be focused on, her self-reliance, but his take might be that he wants her self-reliance to be a little greater than her actual self-reliance; I get this from his depiction of her lack of respect for the Olympians; this depiction was before even finding out that Zeus was her father; Wonder Woman had much more respect for the Olympians in Perez run, but it seemed to slowly decrease with each writer, but not to the degree that it seemed to be at the start of Azzarello's run. In this run, she seems to think of the Olympians as other people and require the same amount of respect. But to gauge the things you point out, I don't see it or it requires much more development. I agree that he's depicting her as a great fighter. I don't see a display of mercy and compassion, even for her enemies. I'd test your mercy and compassion theory by bringing up her interaction with Hades, although I really don't want it to be Hades in that position. I agree that he's showing her as a natural leader. I agree that she knows fighting is not the only answer to a dispute. I agree that she has impact on people around her, although maybe for different reasons than you're considering. I don't see her as thinking she can get better; I think that a writer should depict her as either putting her in situations where she's forced to better herself or come close as possible to perishing in her ego, perhaps completely never getting the principle (hint, one of the reasons that I liked Messner-Loebs' run); that's what I see in the brand of self-reliance that Azzarello is displaying, which is not much different than she was portrayed before Azzarello.