It just occurred to me that the only way we will actually get a solo WW movie out of of the ensemble JL movie is if WB takes a huge risk with one of the characters they have a major hard on for. Obviously one of the ways is she has to be cool and kick ass, which I´m hoping they´ll at least be able to handle the latter if the former is beyond their collective million dollar overpaid imaginations. However, to guarantee a film, and I know everyone will respond in shock, I think they have to get her to quiet down all skeptics. Somehow they have to write it into the film that she kicks Supermans ass. I´m about 90% sure that they will never do this, but it will guarantee her a future solo, and interest from fans everywhere, especially women, if the two duke it out and although taking punishment WW uses her warrior cunning and skills and of course immense powers to take superman down. Everyone obviously is going to want to see a Batman vs Superman fight and I´m pretty sure WB will go for the easier root, rather than finally do WW justice. But I´m sure that would finally put her over the edge. Obviously it will have to be somewhere in the beginning when they first meet, like in The Avengers, but it would be a great match and one that WW would have to win to gain respect from audiences who don´t really know much about her. What do you think?

Could it happen? or is WB going to go the easy root and have Bats in battle with Supes? and have WW lose to GL or something pathetic like that? Is it unrealistic because you guys think Superman is too powerful? Would WB not risk it, cause of their love affair with Supes?

By the way I wasn´t big on the JL having fights in the film unless it was really well done. However this occurred to me and I was wondering what you think.

@Captain13 said:

Heroes fighting heroes (especially to make one of them look cool) is always dumb. This is worsened by the fact that Superman always jobs to make other heroes like Batman look good. Thank God, Grant and Geoff put a stop to this in the New52. Superman should not look like some punk who constantly gets rolled over. There are other ways to make Wonder Woman look good next to her peers.

If you want to make a Wonder Woman movie, then get good talent and a good marketing team. And take advantage of the fact that people will know her from Justice League.

I completely agree, but what I meant and its my fault I should have clarified, the way the JL is being set up, I feel that WW and the rest of the team are going to have very little screen time to shine. In fact I´m unsure how really WB are planning to pull this together. I personally hated in the avengers all the fights for the sake of settling supposed "age old questions" like who can win Thor or Iron Man? But my point with this is for the villain to be a genuine threat he´s got to be very powerful and take it to each member of the team. Meaning WW won´t get that much time to shine in that conflict, especially in that I´m sure Batman is somehow going to be made to save the day. A conflict however between WW, with Superman would really allow an audience to see the absolute difference and yet equality between the two. She is technique and of course great strength, Superman is just power simple. I mean its just hard for me to see how they´ll be enough character development in the film to have audiences really identify with her, enough to convince WB she´s a worthy investment, but if there´s a battle in which she can show her stuff of a bit, I think that could get people behind her, kind of like they did for Hulk in The Avengers, its a cheap method but could work.

Personally I´d of course rather a well made solo movie with great talent behind them.

@Captain13 said:

Heroes fighting heroes (especially to make one of them look cool) is always dumb. This is worsened by the fact that Superman always jobs to make other heroes like Batman look good. Thank God, Grant and Geoff put a stop to this in the New52. Superman should not look like some punk who constantly gets rolled over. There are other ways to make Wonder Woman look good next to her peers.

If you want to make a Wonder Woman movie, then get good talent and a good marketing team. And take advantage of the fact that people will know her from Justice League.

LOL, This!

@jphulk26: All the avengers fight scenes ended in some comical way, most likely to get over the fact it was ridiculous they were fighting in the first place (and to keep the fan-boys in a good mood)... Thor fought his team more than he fought Loki.... But the only fight with an actual winner was Natasha over Burt, and lets face it, nobody cared, everyone was more interested in Natasha's red ledger!

Also DC doing that would be copying Avengers, and would get called on it.

The JLA, Stormwatch, and Teen Titans, Ravagers, and the E-2 JL are 5 comics that had their teammates fighting before officially becoming a team (that I've read). Team 7 is rocky (they bitch at each other but no fights yet), but they are not Meta's, but I think it is getting overplayed. I'm not sure about the others though.

Besides, Superman's worst beating comes from Faora in his movie, not sure if they want a repeat from his own teammate in JL.

Edit: Here are my other concerns.

Optimus vs Megatron TF1, Megatron was stronger and everyone complained, so the next 2 movies Optimus owned him at every turn except when Megatron got him from behind in TF2. Not to mention when heroes fight, it causes rift between fans, especially when there is a clear winner, that could have a negative impact. WW helping SM in a situation where he is in trouble would be more helpful. So a guy barely losing to Superman starts hitting him with Magic and WW comes to the rescue, something that shows the foe is not a pushover.

The only way to get a good WW movie is to prevent the WB execs from getting anywhere near the decision making process about any aspect of the movie other then signing off on the budget.

@jphulk26 said:

By the way I wasn´t big on the JL having fights in the film unless it was really well done. However this occurred to me and I was wondering what you think.

I don't really know what to say. , , , what are the screen writer's credentials for something like this . . . I hear he's a noob with one movie under his belt. . . and that movie hasn't even come out yet.

Will Beal:

I don't want to bust on this guy but Joss Whedon has a career long history of writing genre friendly characters before the Avengers success, and has even written comics for Marvel. Batman trilogy screenwriter David Goyer has a list of comic book contributions as well. On the other hand, Goyer was also responsible or Ghost Rider 2, while much improved from the first film, it was not firing on all cylinders.

Nothing has been said about Beal's nature or penchant for the genre of comic books or superheroes but what can we really expect? I would be less concerned about how she'll be portrayed and more concerned with weather or not she'll actually get any screen time.

We all have to start somewhere but this might be a little more High Profile that Beal is prepared for. When you look at Marvel's formula for success, there has been a lot more affection for the source genre within the creative teams than might have been applied in all of the flops that have been previously produced.

I would love to hear that Bruce Timm and Paul Dini were tapped for this high stakes production, people who know these characters better than anyone else and have presented and represented them in the field of motion pictures with characterizations that are respectful and beautiful. Scrap the beginner and bring in the heavy weights for this one. . . . not just for this one but for all of the characters live action film incarnations.

If there's going to be any fighting involved, it would likely be as Geoff Johns wrote it in the pages of the Justice League, all Superman fending off the peons with Wonder Woman being introduced in the last third of the film.

I think DC justs wants to tests the waters first before going though with a WW film. They would like to see if GA would like her,

@drgnx said:

Optimus vs Megatron TF1, Megatron was stronger and everyone complained, so the next 2 movies Optimus owned him at every turn except when Megatron got him from behind in TF2. Not to mention when heroes fight, it causes rift between fans, especially when there is a clear winner, that could have a negative impact. WW helping SM in a situation where he is in trouble would be more helpful. So a guy barely losing to Superman starts hitting him with Magic and WW comes to the rescue, something that shows the foe is not a pushover.

your right, that would be better, but you agree something like that really has to happen? I mean as I said earlier I didn´t like the fights in Avengers, but audiences responded to it. Your right though, but what my real point is that they have to show in this movie the clear difference between Superman and WW. Hopefully in character, but also their powers and abilities. That will show what makes her compelling in her own right, so people get rid of this idiotic notion, WW is "Superman with boobs." snigger snigger.

Also I know its kind of selfish, but I´m disappointed the first female superpowered being with technique on screen is going to be Farora. It´s unfair to WW. That´s her thing, I just hope she gets on screen soon and can equally wow people with her abilities. But now it will have to choreographed in an even more impressive way than Snyder´s doing it. That will be really hard. Otherwise people will just be like been there done that.

Heroes fighting heroes (especially to make one of them look cool) is always dumb. This is worsened by the fact that Superman always jobs to make other heroes like Batman look good. Thank God, Grant and Geoff put a stop to this in the New52. Superman should not look like some punk who constantly gets rolled over. There are other ways to make Wonder Woman look good next to her peers.

If you want to make a Wonder Woman movie, then get good talent and a good marketing team. And take advantage of the fact that people will know her from Justice League.

@jphulk26 said:

@drgnx said:

Optimus vs Megatron TF1, Megatron was stronger and everyone complained, so the next 2 movies Optimus owned him at every turn except when Megatron got him from behind in TF2. Not to mention when heroes fight, it causes rift between fans, especially when there is a clear winner, that could have a negative impact. WW helping SM in a situation where he is in trouble would be more helpful. So a guy barely losing to Superman starts hitting him with Magic and WW comes to the rescue, something that shows the foe is not a pushover.

your right, that would be better, but you agree something like that really has to happen? I mean as I said earlier I didn´t like the fights in Avengers, but audiences responded to it. Your right though, but what my real point is that they have to show in this movie the clear difference between Superman and WW. Hopefully in character, but also their powers and abilities. That will show what makes her compelling in her own right, so people get rid of this idiotic notion, WW is "Superman with boobs." snigger snigger.

Also I know its kind of selfish, but I´m disappointed the first female superpowered being with technique on screen is going to be Farora. It´s unfair to WW. That´s her thing, I just hope she gets on screen soon and can equally wow people with her abilities. But now it will have to choreographed in an even more impressive way than Snyder´s doing it. That will be really hard. Otherwise people will just be like been there done that.

I would not say it has to happen, Catwomen had a lot of respect without actually fighting Batman in TDKR. I think the director could find a few ways to make the character respectful and intriguing that does not require comparing her directly to other characters. I don't think it could hurt either though. Basically I'm actually 'meh' about the whole concept right now (might have more specifics later). I just don't like team infighting.

I don't think it's necessary for WW to beat up Superman for her to get a movie. The characterization has to be good. That's all.

@80sBaby: I NEVER SAID BEAT UP.

@jphulk26: No, you said "kick Superman's ass" which is essentially the same thing. And, why are you "shouting?"

@80sBaby: If anything Kick his ass implies something more serious than just beat up

@joshmightbe: Exactly, josh.

@WDW said:

Once you put superman in a show or movie with another powerhouse they have to hit each other! LOL

LOL :D She's gonna hit dat alright. :D

@80sBaby said:

@jphulk26: No, you said "kick Superman's ass" which is essentially the same thing. And, why are you "shouting?"

I just had my keyboard on caplock. it was an accident, didn´t know it meant shouting and couldn´t be bothered to retype. @jphulk26 said:

Somehow they have to write it into the film that she kicks Supermans ass.

I know I said this, but I did qualify what I meant afterwards.

I´m about 90% sure that they will never do this, but it will guarantee her a future solo, and interest from fans everywhere, especially women, if the two duke it out and although taking punishment WW uses her warrior cunning and skills and of course immense powers to take superman down. Everyone obviously is going to want to see a Batman vs Superman fight and I´m pretty sure WB will go for the easier root, rather than finally do WW justice. But I´m sure that would finally put her over the edge.

I meant as a way to show off her specific skills and technique, so that people could see the difference between WW and Superman and to give her a bit of credibility, that she can hang with the best of the boys. I thought it would be better than the obvious Batman vs Superman, and she needs this film to raise her profile. I just think it will get audiences who don´t know her and women especially who are dragged along by their boyfriends, to go holy shit I didn´t know ww could do that, I thought she just twirled around and wrapped people in her lasso. Its just a strong statement and could have an impact on audiences, even if the film isn´t that great. That´s it. Thats all I meant. Its not favoratism or anything like that, cause I´m the biggest Superman fan, but she needs a push more than him, and some how I think this is a way to solidify her as a genuine bad ass character. I´m very worried at the moment that this film is just going to side line her, because of the popularity of Batman and the DC/WB obsession with Superman. One last thing, her having this battle with anyone else would not have the same affect unless she goes toe to toe with the main villain or saves Superman or Batman somehow as some one above mentioned.

Add in a shower scene and fan service she will make MILLIONS!!

@InnerAssassin said:

Add in a shower scene and fan service she will make MILLIONS!!

I'm pretty sure the movie will make millions anyways ...

@jphulk26: Oh, ok. I still disagree that Wonder Woman needs to fight Clark to show her worth. But I'm sure she'll get a few shining moments in the film.

She needs to fill a specific role in the league, like how Batman is the brains of the JL and Superman is the mascot.

@deaditegonzo A Batman/ Wonder Woman will be a lot better because WW will probaly will have the same personality as Superman and the general public likes relationships with contrast. Also it could add more drama to the films if they ever do a Tower of Babel story. And last, Batman is DC's most popular character among fans and the GP. It would make more sense to pair her with him so his fans can become interested in her,

@deaditegonzo

1. They contrast so he wont over shadow her.

2. Other than being obessive he is not any those things. Batman's parents where killed in front of him as a child. That trauma says with somebody with the rest of there life. He suffers from PTSD. WW would attracted to him because of the fact he risks himself everynight to protect the defenseless. Which does without out superpowers. Also she very empathic so she would feel for more than Superman. Also Batman does express love in some storylines such as Hush Heart of Hush Year 2 just to name a few.

3. In the Golden and Silver Ages their personities were very alike as well in the pre New 52. In fact most people who like them as a couple like them together because of this. Also the biggest flaw in her is the fact she comes off as being macho. Most of her readers are male while Batman has alot of female readers. She be written more feminine. She can still be a strong tough indendent woman and still femine. And Supes big problem is he is too loving.

4. You say want balance between BM WW and SM but having WW and SM date would run the balance. Also Batman is DC's big character thus most people would see the film because he is in it. And because he is really only normal person in the League the GP would relate to him most.

5. Superman is losing popularity fast. Do want WW paired with a character who is losing fans.

It really does not matter who fights who, Batman is stealing the show.

Batman is going to = Tony Starks, Bruce Banner (without Hulk), Captain America, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Agent Phil Coulson, Nick Fury (leadership)

Superman = Hulk (with a bit of Bruce, not that he will ever use it) (Batman and WW seem like more likely contacts to Steve)

Wonder Women = Thor + Agent Maria Hill

Steve = Nick Fury (liaison to the government)

Everyone else = Ironman (minus Tony's charm and intel, though GL might have some charm) but they will be fighting for Hawkeye's screen time.... =P

@WDW said:

@drgnx said:

It really does not matter who fights who, Batman is stealing the show.

Batman is going to = Tony Starks, Bruce Banner (without Hulk), Captain America, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Agent Phil Coulson, Nick Fury (leadership)

Superman = Hulk (with a bit of Bruce, not that he will ever use it) (Batman and WW seem like more likely contacts to Steve)

Wonder Women = Thor + Agent Maria Hill

Steve = Nick Fury (liaison to the government)

Everyone else = Ironman (minus Tony's charm and intel, though GL might have some charm) but they will be fighting for Hawkeye's screen time.... =P

I highly doubt Batman will steal the show based on the rumored story line they will be using (Darksied). Batman is great in Gotham but put him in a Justice League movie and his character, as the main stream movie public knows him, will struggle to be relevant.

Every single Batman movie has Batman in Gotham. Gotham is what makes Batman cool. Gotham made Batman and Batman made gotham.

Put him anyplace else in live action and all of a sudden he has no real purpose.

The rest of the Justice League are "go anywhere superheros"

All the avengers are " go anywhere superheros"

Batman is not and can quickly become gimmicky if he is removed from his Gotham enviroment.

So no I doubt he will steal the show. Batman is the most risky character to include. Partly because he is so well known. Batman is not immune to looking stupid in movies. Remember George Clooney?

I don't know Batman was pretty cool when he went to Japan? Hong Kong to catch that criminal in the Dark Knight.

But Batman has shown some Brass against Darkside in the animation and seemed to gain his respect, in a way helped save the day, so don't count him out, he does not have actually fight to be usefull. Also Batwing can attest that Batman does venture out of Gotham in the comics for roles beyond telling the JLA what to do and without losing his cool factor....

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there about the acting, a bad Actor/Director can make any role bad and has little to do with my post.

And my post was a Joke ... for the light-hearted ... Batman in character is not a show stealer he is a buzzkill. In terms of usefulness he is probably going to be Tony+Bruce Banner and the Nick Fury/Captain America, but Hal should be the one cracking the jokes ...

@80sBaby: OK, You see right here this is my point. THe total misconceptions Batman and Superman fanboys have of WW. I want them all destroyed, because she´s not any of these things in the comics.

1) WW is a female superman powers wise.

2) WW personality is similar to Superman.

3) WW personality is similar to Batman.

4) Wonder Woman is best depicted as a love interest to Batman.

5) WW is outclassed by Superman as he is far more powerful than her.

This is basically what the general public think, and its an absolute misconception. But here´s the evidence before I go on to show why the film needs to focus on estabishing who she is.

1. Exhibit 1

@deaditegonzo:

Basically this. Also, I think the OP's main premise could be served without a definitive winner anyway, just showing WW as Superman's equal would be sufficient for what you are suggesting. And also, if theyre going to start erasing misconceptions, one of the misconceptions they should eliminate is that Supes is a skill-less fighter. In the comics, this is absolutely not the case, and yet, as has been said, he is constantly jobbing for other's sakes. Also, if they were fighting for real, Superman really is out of WW's league.

Something that'd be risky, that id like to see but could easily be handled poorly, would be the movies reflecting the comics, and developing a relationship between Supes and WW.

There is so much wrong with this whole post it just shows it all. These are the very misconceptions that need to be completely wiped out by a JL movie.

2. Exhibit 2

@deaditegonzo said:

@darkman61288 said:

3) Diana and Supes have never had the same personality. In fact, they are a subversion of typical gender roles, where WW is the more aggressive, more masculine (in some ways), and overall more macho than the more passive, compassionate, and loving Superman. She is a warrior, and he is a protector. If anything Batman is more similar to WW, but with a ton more psychosis.

Here you see Darkman is even trying to defend Wonder Woman, but how? By saying actually she´s more in personality like Batman. Wrong. Not at all.

3. Exhibit 3

@darkman61288 said:

@deaditegonzo

1. They contrast so he wont over shadow her.

2. Other than being obessive he is not any those things. Batman's parents where killed in front of him as a child. That trauma says with somebody with the rest of there life. He suffers from PTSD. WW would attracted to him because of the fact he risks himself everynight to protect the defenseless. Which does without out superpowers. Also she very empathic so she would feel for more than Superman. Also Batman does express love in some storylines such as Hush Heart of Hush Year 2 just to name a few.

3. In the Golden and Silver Ages their personities were very alike as well in the pre New 52. In fact most people who like them as a couple like them together because of this. Also the biggest flaw in her is the fact she comes off as being macho. Most of her readers are male while Batman has alot of female readers. She be written more feminine. She can still be a strong tough indendent woman and still femine. And Supes big problem is he is too loving.

4. You say want balance between BM WW and SM but having WW and SM date would run the balance. Also Batman is DC's big character thus most people would see the film because he is in it. And because he is really only normal person in the League the GP would relate to him most.

5. Superman is losing popularity fast. Do want WW paired with a character who is losing fans.

Now the second point I agree with, I think if WW was attracted to either of them, it would be Batman. However I really don´t want to see her used as a love interest for anyone in the JL. She needs to be established as an equal member. I´m afraid however that is how she´ll be used.

4. Last Exhibit@drgnx:

@drgnx said:

It really does not matter who fights who, Batman is stealing the show.

Batman is going to = Tony Starks, Bruce Banner (without Hulk), Captain America, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Agent Phil Coulson, Nick Fury (leadership)

Superman = Hulk (with a bit of Bruce, not that he will ever use it) (Batman and WW seem like more likely contacts to Steve)

Wonder Women = Thor + Agent Maria Hill

Steve = Nick Fury (liaison to the government)

Everyone else = Ironman (minus Tony's charm and intel, though GL might have some charm) but they will be fighting for Hawkeye's screen time.... =P

This is confused all over the place. Superman = Hulk with a bit of Bruce? Batman = TS; BB; CA wrong, wrong, wrong. And of course WW is Thor, wrong.

Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are completely original and distinct characters and they need no comparison at all with Marvel characters. Maybe you could say Superman is like Captain America, but even that isn´t accurate.

Anyway these are 3 of my favorite comic characters so here´s how I´d describe them, just to show how the contrast greatly.

1. Superman: Clever, born leader, compassionate to a fault, an inspiration. Heart on his sleeve and he holds within that heart humanties loftiest values, a good old simple country boy, with simple values, therefore making him see the world in black and white, good and evil are simple, and he must always defend what he see´s as right. i.e. truth, justice and freedom for all people. Ultimately inspite of all the evil he fights, he sees humanity as good and worth defending.

By the by @deaditgonzo: Superman is a somewhat skilled fighter but he is nowhere near the class of fighter Batman or Wonder Woman are. Just to let you know

2. Batman: Conflicted, Surly, moody, angry. A phantom of the night. Genius intellect, peek human attributes all of which he uses to strike fear into the criminal fraternity as the spirit of vengence.

3. Wonder Woman: Regal, graceful, caring and feminine. Somewhat niave about the culture of Mans World. Amazed by its vastness and beauty, but disturbed by its brutality. Somewhat unconflicted holding her warrior and royal side together with a sense of purpose. A born diplomat, who is kind, not quick to a fight, but ready for one. However becareful her kindness is not a weakness; if you hurt who she loves or attack those who can´t defend themselves, she can get bad bad tempered and you don´t want to fight her in that mood.She can literally be lethal unlike the above two.

As you can see, all 3 are very different. There are parts where they are similar, but by and large they are perfectly different characters who contrast and compliment the others personalities.

Last to @deaditgonzo here is the final proof, from DC themselves that Wonder Woman is most certainly in Supermans league. (Although in all honesty it depends on the writer; but those who know the character and what she was intended to be always write her as on the same level as Supes)

DC DATABASE WONDER WOMANS POWERS, ABILITIES AND WEAPONS: I hope it puts this argument to rest among superman fanboys.

Powers

Superhuman Strength: Granted by Demeter (Goddess of the Earth). Diana is literally as strong as the Earth because of her link to the planet granted to her by Demeter. She is said to be 'stronger than Hercules'. It is obvious her strength is magical in nature, given her height and weight. Wonder Woman is known to be one of the strongest beings in the DCU, often shown to be in the same class as Superman himself and to physically over-match other beings such as Supergirl without too much effort. She is considered to be the strongest superheroine in the world. She has godlike strength and also invulnerability due to her aegis-made shield magic bracelets. With her superhuman strength and superior fighting abilities, she has proven to be able to take on any other member of the Justice League in combat. In the events of Justice League: League of One, she was able to defeat even the other six main members through a combination of planning and power in order to save their lives and the world. She is strong enough to lift weights well into the megaton range and even pull 1/3 of the earth.

Superhuman Durability: Granted by Demeter (Goddess of the Earth). Diana, possesses a high resistance to damage and magical attacks. Her resistance to injury is not quite as great as any of the above mentioned metahumans. However, due to her vast threshold for pain and her amazon ability to heal at a superhuman rate, this easily makes up for the difference. She has withstood considerable bludgeoning damage in the form of hand to hand combat with metahuman opponents such as Superman and Captain Marvel. She has considerable resistance to human weaponries,though this is not absolute; Bullets can cause minor to moderate injury, but never life threatening. And her ability to heal rapidly, makes up for this set back. She can easily survive under extreme pressures, cold, and heat. Wonder Woman has been able to traverse space, undergo submergence into lava, and withstand a direct explosion from a nuclear warhead unharmed. Born of the clay of Themyscira, and given life and divine powers by the gods themselves, Diana has heightened resistance to magical attacks. She is highly experienced in battling foes who use sorcery as a weapon. As a divine creation herself, she is far-less susceptible to manipulation by magic and mental attack than many of her fellow heroes. Also, Wonder Woman is self-sufficient in that she doesn't have to eat and can go without sleep. She is also capable of holding her breath under water, for hours and hours on end. She did this once when her and the Green Lantern were trying to fake her death.

Flight: Granted by Hermes (God of Messengers). Wonder Woman is capable of unassisted flight through an as yet unknown but probably magical means or through telekinesis. Her aerial maneuverability is not as developed as aerial combatants such as Hawkman or the Black Condor, but she is still a relatively capable aerial combatant as well. Wonder Woman is capable of flying at speeds of greater than escape velocity. She has been clocked at Mach 5 (hyper-sonic) traveling in sustained flight and can go much faster if need be.

Superhuman Speed: Granted by Hermes (God of Messengers). She is able to think, react and move at superhuman speeds. Her top speed is high hypersonic(It's lightspeed in some instances but it may not be consistent) and according to Flash, she can easily keep up with him but it should be noted that the Flash does not usually go at his nearly max speed which is lightspeed, unless the situation is severe and calls for it.

Superhuman Reflexes: Granted by Hermes (God of Messengers). Wonder Woman possesses reflex abilities similar to speedsters, such as Jesse Quick and Max Mercury, and has been noted as being faster than Superman's. She is able to keep up with Jesse Quick with ease, referencing her patron deity of speed and messenger of the gods, Hermes, as the source of her powers. Wonder Woman's reflexes are far beyond the limitations of the finest human athletes. She has been able to react to a barrage of gunfire from multiple opponents at once unharmed. Batman noted that her reflexes are superior to that of Superman.

Superhuman Agility: Wonder Womans's agility is far beyond that of even an olympic level athlete, as is her balance and coordination.

Superhuman Stamina: Wonder Woman can last a great deal of time in any fight and with virtually anyone. She has held her own in combat with foes as powerful as a Doomsday clone. She doesn't tire out, as her body produces no lactic acids in her muscles.

Enhanced Healing Factor: Granted by Demeter (Goddess of Earth). Like the Earth, Diana is constantly renewing herself, allowing her to quickly heal mild to moderate injuries at an amazing rate. Her normal regenerative abilities allow her to recover from injury within seconds to minutes. She possesses an incredible immunity from poisons, toxins, as well as disease. In rare cases where she was gravely injured or where another has managed to severely poison her, Diana showed the ability to physically merge with the Earth, causing whatever injuries or poisons to be expelled from her body as she regains shape. Wonder Woman does not age like a regular human either. She is immortal while on Paradise island.

Oneness With Fire: Granted by Hestia (Goddess of the Hearth). Apparently making her a focus of truth.

Empathy: Granted by Athena. (Goddess of Wisdom) "The Sight of Athena" apparently grants her increased insight. For example, Diana can often detects others' emotions, and is now so fully immune to Doctor Psycho's illusions that she usually is not even aware of what illusions he is attempting to project. Apparently most forms of mind control will not work on her either. Even other high-level telepaths would be unable to read her mind or attack her in such a manner.

• Animal Rapport: Granted by Artemis (Goddess of the Hunt). Ability to communicate with all forms of animals (including dinosaurs) and her presence alone can bring a raging beast to a calm standstill. She is also able to directly command wild animals when needed. She used bald eagles to distract Superman after defeating him in battle once.

Enhanced Senses: Granted by Artemis (Goddess of the Hunt). Eyesight, hearing, taste, touch and smell.

• Enhanced Vision: She also possess the "Hunters Eye" which allows her to always hit her mark. She can see to far greater distances than any normal human. Wonder Woman was briefly blinded, then had her sight restored by Athena. Since then, she has had the sight of Athena.
• Enhanced Smell
• Enhanced Hearing

Dimensional Teleportation: On occasion, Wonder Woman can literally leave the planet through meditation. She did this to rescue Artemis when she was in hell, and has even conversed with the Greek Gods on occasion.

Abilities

Master Combatant: Diana is the finest warrior ever born among the Amazons of Themyscira. She is a master of armed and unarmed combat, proficient with nearly every weapon ever made (especially the bow and the javelin) and the exotic martial arts styles of the Amazons. Batman once remarked that Wonder Woman is the best melee fighter in the world.

Master Tactician and Strategist: Diana is also an accomplished strategist and tactician, trained in the arts of leadership, persuasion and diplomacy, and possesses a great deal of courage as well. She is a gifted leader.

Multi-lingual: Diana has exhibited heightened proficiency with languages, being able to speak her native Themysciran, Ancient and Modern Greek, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Mandarin Chinese (she expressed "difficulty" with the tones of Cantonese during an interview with Lois Lane), Russian and Hindi. Plus, through precise muscle control, she can mimic other peoples voices for short conversations (telephone). It is more difficult, (though it can be done), for her to mimic a mans voice than another womans voice.

Wisdom: Granted by Athena (Goddess of Wisdom). Diana possesses great wisdom and intelligence, though the degree varies from author to author. She is among the smartest and wisest members of the Justice League of America, along with the Martian Manhunter and Batman.

Aviation: Expert pilot. Seen flying the Invisible Jet with ease.

Expert Lasso Wielder: Can use the Lasso of Truth as an offensive and defensive weapon.

Physical Beauty: Blessed with this gift, Wonder Woman is generally seen and known to be as beautiful as any supermodel.

Weaknesses

Piercing Weapon Vulnerability: Diana is extremely resistant to blunt force attacks and has a vast tolerance for pain. Pressures, the vacuum of space, extreme heat and cold don't seem to faze her. And she can heal at a meta-human rate. However, Wonder Woman is somewhat vulnerable to piercing weapons, such as projectiles. Rifle or top notch machine-gun fire can cause bruising to slight penetration wounds, WHEN NOT blocked by her bracelets. Knives and swords of magical nature, as well as the attacker, will only cause pain and maybe, a temporary cut. Given her vast strength, it would be obvious that piercing weapons such as bullets, may penetrate her skin, but not her muscle tissue. Over the years, there have some inconsistencies in this weakness. She has been shown to be greatly weak against these forms of weaponry, and at other times has been able to ignore the impact. It should be noted that as she spends more time in Man's world, she becomes more powerful.

ParaphernaliaEdit

Equipment

• Indestructible Gauntlets: Modeled after the shackles the Amazons were once enslaved with. The gauntlets were formed from the remains of Zeus's legendary Aegis shield, and were re-forged for her use by Hephaestus. Diana's superhuman reflexes enable her to use the gauntlets to easily deflect projectiles (such as bullets) and powerful energy blasts from beings such as Ares and Darkseid. She is even fast enough to protect herself from multi-vector attacks. At close-range the gauntlets block blades, weapons and punches. In some stories, Diana has used the gauntlets as a dual defensive/offensive weapon, redirecting energy blasts back to their point of origin or other targets. They are even able to deflect Darkseid's energy attacks. When crossed, the gauntlets generate a remnant of the Aegis itself, forming an impenetrable barrier just in front of them which allows Diana to protect herself and those behind her from area attacks. With bracelets forged by Hephastus, Wonder Woman boosts her resistance to injury with her indestructible bracelets. She is able to deflect attacks that might otherwise cause her considerable injury but she can only deflect attacks she is aware of. It has recently been revealed that the braclets, as they were made from Zeus' legendary Aegis, have the capability to discharge lightning from them. Zeus himself confirmed this revelation, stating that the code was merely "unlocked" by Diana.

• Lasso of Truth: The Lasso of Truth (Kalos Alétheias) is her famous trade mark device. Most who are captured in it, are forced to tell her any questions she asks and make it incapable for him or her to lie. It cannot be broken, snapped or cut. And she can also control it to a certain degree using telepathy. It can also be used to erase memories, heal the mentally ill (in some cases), and implant commands that must then be obeyed.

Transportation

• Flight commonly.
• Invisible Jet

Weapons

• Axe
• Lasso of Truth
• Star Sapphire Ring (formerly)
• Sword of Hephaestus: A magical sword that can seperate the electrons from an atom. It was sharp enough to make Kingdom Come Superman bleed.
• Boomerang Tiara: Diana's golden tiara also doubles as a throwing weapon, as it is razor-edged and can cut through most substances.

@WDW:

@jphulk26 said:

@drgnx said:

It really does not matter who fights who, Batman is stealing the show.

Batman is going to = Tony Starks, Bruce Banner (without Hulk), Captain America, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Agent Phil Coulson, Nick Fury (leadership)

Superman = Hulk (with a bit of Bruce, not that he will ever use it) (Batman and WW seem like more likely contacts to Steve)

Wonder Women = Thor + Agent Maria Hill

Steve = Nick Fury (liaison to the government)

Everyone else = Ironman (minus Tony's charm and intel, though GL might have some charm) but they will be fighting for Hawkeye's screen time.... =P

This is confused all over the place. Superman = Hulk with a bit of Bruce? Batman = TS; BB; CA wrong, wrong, wrong. And of course WW is Thor, wrong.

Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are completely original and distinct characters and they need no comparison at all with Marvel characters. Maybe you could say Superman is like Captain America, but even that isn´t accurate.

Anyway these are 3 of my favorite comic characters so here´s how I´d describe them, just to show how the contrast greatly.

1. Superman: Clever, born leader, compassionate to a fault, an inspiration. Heart on his sleeve and he holds within that heart humanties loftiest values, a good old simple country boy, with simple values, therefore making him see the world in black and white, good and evil are simple, and he must always defend what he see´s as right. i.e. truth, justice and freedom for all people. Ultimately inspite of all the evil he fights, he sees humanity as good and worth defending.

By the by @deaditgonzo: Superman is a somewhat skilled fighter but he is nowhere near the class of fighter Batman or Wonder Woman are. Just to let you know

2. Batman: Conflicted, Surly, moody, angry. A phantom of the night. Genius intellect, peek human attributes all of which he uses to strike fear into the criminal fraternity as the spirit of vengence.

3. Wonder Woman: Regal, graceful, caring and feminine. Somewhat niave about the culture of Mans World. Amazed by its vastness and beauty, but disturbed by its brutality. Somewhat unconflicted holding her warrior and royal side together with a sense of purpose. A born diplomat, who is kind, not quick to a fight, but ready for one. However becareful her kindness is not a weakness; if you hurt who she loves or attack those who can´t defend themselves, she can get bad bad tempered and you don´t want to fight her in that mood.She can literally be lethal unlike the above two.

As you can see, all 3 are very different. There are parts where they are similar, but by and large they are perfectly different characters who contrast and compliment the others personalities.

Last to @deaditgonzo here is the final proof, from DC themselves that Wonder Woman is most certainly in Supermans league. (Although in all honesty it depends on the writer; but those who know the character and what she was intended to be always write her as on the same level as Supes)

DC DATABASE WONDER WOMANS POWERS, ABILITIES AND WEAPONS: I hope it puts this argument to rest among superman fanboys.

Powers

Superhuman Strength: Granted by Demeter (Goddess of the Earth). Diana is literally as strong as the Earth because of her link to the planet granted to her by Demeter. She is said to be 'stronger than Hercules'. It is obvious her strength is magical in nature, given her height and weight. Wonder Woman is known to be one of the strongest beings in the DCU, often shown to be in the same class as Superman himself and to physically over-match other beings such as Supergirl without too much effort. She is considered to be the strongest superheroine in the world. She has godlike strength and also invulnerability due to her aegis-made shield magic bracelets. With her superhuman strength and superior fighting abilities, she has proven to be able to take on any other member of the Justice League in combat. In the events of Justice League: League of One, she was able to defeat even the other six main members through a combination of planning and power in order to save their lives and the world. She is strong enough to lift weights well into the megaton range and even pull 1/3 of the earth.

Superhuman Durability: Granted by Demeter (Goddess of the Earth). Diana, possesses a high resistance to damage and magical attacks. Her resistance to injury is not quite as great as any of the above mentioned metahumans. However, due to her vast threshold for pain and her amazon ability to heal at a superhuman rate, this easily makes up for the difference. She has withstood considerable bludgeoning damage in the form of hand to hand combat with metahuman opponents such as Superman and Captain Marvel. She has considerable resistance to human weaponries,though this is not absolute; Bullets can cause minor to moderate injury, but never life threatening. And her ability to heal rapidly, makes up for this set back. She can easily survive under extreme pressures, cold, and heat. Wonder Woman has been able to traverse space, undergo submergence into lava, and withstand a direct explosion from a nuclear warhead unharmed. Born of the clay of Themyscira, and given life and divine powers by the gods themselves, Diana has heightened resistance to magical attacks. She is highly experienced in battling foes who use sorcery as a weapon. As a divine creation herself, she is far-less susceptible to manipulation by magic and mental attack than many of her fellow heroes. Also, Wonder Woman is self-sufficient in that she doesn't have to eat and can go without sleep. She is also capable of holding her breath under water, for hours and hours on end. She did this once when her and the Green Lantern were trying to fake her death.

Flight: Granted by Hermes (God of Messengers). Wonder Woman is capable of unassisted flight through an as yet unknown but probably magical means or through telekinesis. Her aerial maneuverability is not as developed as aerial combatants such as Hawkman or the Black Condor, but she is still a relatively capable aerial combatant as well. Wonder Woman is capable of flying at speeds of greater than escape velocity. She has been clocked at Mach 5 (hyper-sonic) traveling in sustained flight and can go much faster if need be.

Superhuman Speed: Granted by Hermes (God of Messengers). She is able to think, react and move at superhuman speeds. Her top speed is high hypersonic(It's lightspeed in some instances but it may not be consistent) and according to Flash, she can easily keep up with him but it should be noted that the Flash does not usually go at his nearly max speed which is lightspeed, unless the situation is severe and calls for it.

Superhuman Reflexes: Granted by Hermes (God of Messengers). Wonder Woman possesses reflex abilities similar to speedsters, such as Jesse Quick and Max Mercury, and has been noted as being faster than Superman's. She is able to keep up with Jesse Quick with ease, referencing her patron deity of speed and messenger of the gods, Hermes, as the source of her powers. Wonder Woman's reflexes are far beyond the limitations of the finest human athletes. She has been able to react to a barrage of gunfire from multiple opponents at once unharmed. Batman noted that her reflexes are superior to that of Superman.

Superhuman Agility: Wonder Womans's agility is far beyond that of even an olympic level athlete, as is her balance and coordination.

Superhuman Stamina: Wonder Woman can last a great deal of time in any fight and with virtually anyone. She has held her own in combat with foes as powerful as a Doomsday clone. She doesn't tire out, as her body produces no lactic acids in her muscles.

Enhanced Healing Factor: Granted by Demeter (Goddess of Earth). Like the Earth, Diana is constantly renewing herself, allowing her to quickly heal mild to moderate injuries at an amazing rate. Her normal regenerative abilities allow her to recover from injury within seconds to minutes. She possesses an incredible immunity from poisons, toxins, as well as disease. In rare cases where she was gravely injured or where another has managed to severely poison her, Diana showed the ability to physically merge with the Earth, causing whatever injuries or poisons to be expelled from her body as she regains shape. Wonder Woman does not age like a regular human either. She is immortal while on Paradise island.

Oneness With Fire: Granted by Hestia (Goddess of the Hearth). Apparently making her a focus of truth.

Empathy: Granted by Athena. (Goddess of Wisdom) "The Sight of Athena" apparently grants her increased insight. For example, Diana can often detects others' emotions, and is now so fully immune to Doctor Psycho's illusions that she usually is not even aware of what illusions he is attempting to project. Apparently most forms of mind control will not work on her either. Even other high-level telepaths would be unable to read her mind or attack her in such a manner.

• Animal Rapport: Granted by Artemis (Goddess of the Hunt). Ability to communicate with all forms of animals (including dinosaurs) and her presence alone can bring a raging beast to a calm standstill. She is also able to directly command wild animals when needed. She used bald eagles to distract Superman after defeating him in battle once.

Enhanced Senses: Granted by Artemis (Goddess of the Hunt). Eyesight, hearing, taste, touch and smell.

• Enhanced Vision: She also possess the "Hunters Eye" which allows her to always hit her mark. She can see to far greater distances than any normal human. Wonder Woman was briefly blinded, then had her sight restored by Athena. Since then, she has had the sight of Athena.
• Enhanced Smell
• Enhanced Hearing

Dimensional Teleportation: On occasion, Wonder Woman can literally leave the planet through meditation. She did this to rescue Artemis when she was in hell, and has even conversed with the Greek Gods on occasion.

Abilities

Master Combatant: Diana is the finest warrior ever born among the Amazons of Themyscira. She is a master of armed and unarmed combat, proficient with nearly every weapon ever made (especially the bow and the javelin) and the exotic martial arts styles of the Amazons. Batman once remarked that Wonder Woman is the best melee fighter in the world.

Master Tactician and Strategist: Diana is also an accomplished strategist and tactician, trained in the arts of leadership, persuasion and diplomacy, and possesses a great deal of courage as well. She is a gifted leader.

Multi-lingual: Diana has exhibited heightened proficiency with languages, being able to speak her native Themysciran, Ancient and Modern Greek, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Mandarin Chinese (she expressed "difficulty" with the tones of Cantonese during an interview with Lois Lane), Russian and Hindi. Plus, through precise muscle control, she can mimic other peoples voices for short conversations (telephone). It is more difficult, (though it can be done), for her to mimic a mans voice than another womans voice.

Wisdom: Granted by Athena (Goddess of Wisdom). Diana possesses great wisdom and intelligence, though the degree varies from author to author. She is among the smartest and wisest members of the Justice League of America, along with the Martian Manhunter and Batman.

Aviation: Expert pilot. Seen flying the Invisible Jet with ease.

Expert Lasso Wielder: Can use the Lasso of Truth as an offensive and defensive weapon.

Physical Beauty: Blessed with this gift, Wonder Woman is generally seen and known to be as beautiful as any supermodel.

Weaknesses

Piercing Weapon Vulnerability: Diana is extremely resistant to blunt force attacks and has a vast tolerance for pain. Pressures, the vacuum of space, extreme heat and cold don't seem to faze her. And she can heal at a meta-human rate. However, Wonder Woman is somewhat vulnerable to piercing weapons, such as projectiles. Rifle or top notch machine-gun fire can cause bruising to slight penetration wounds, WHEN NOT blocked by her bracelets. Knives and swords of magical nature, as well as the attacker, will only cause pain and maybe, a temporary cut. Given her vast strength, it would be obvious that piercing weapons such as bullets, may penetrate her skin, but not her muscle tissue. Over the years, there have some inconsistencies in this weakness. She has been shown to be greatly weak against these forms of weaponry, and at other times has been able to ignore the impact. It should be noted that as she spends more time in Man's world, she becomes more powerful.

ParaphernaliaEdit

Equipment

• Indestructible Gauntlets: Modeled after the shackles the Amazons were once enslaved with. The gauntlets were formed from the remains of Zeus's legendary Aegis shield, and were re-forged for her use by Hephaestus. Diana's superhuman reflexes enable her to use the gauntlets to easily deflect projectiles (such as bullets) and powerful energy blasts from beings such as Ares and Darkseid. She is even fast enough to protect herself from multi-vector attacks. At close-range the gauntlets block blades, weapons and punches. In some stories, Diana has used the gauntlets as a dual defensive/offensive weapon, redirecting energy blasts back to their point of origin or other targets. They are even able to deflect Darkseid's energy attacks. When crossed, the gauntlets generate a remnant of the Aegis itself, forming an impenetrable barrier just in front of them which allows Diana to protect herself and those behind her from area attacks. With bracelets forged by Hephastus, Wonder Woman boosts her resistance to injury with her indestructible bracelets. She is able to deflect attacks that might otherwise cause her considerable injury but she can only deflect attacks she is aware of. It has recently been revealed that the braclets, as they were made from Zeus' legendary Aegis, have the capability to discharge lightning from them. Zeus himself confirmed this revelation, stating that the code was merely "unlocked" by Diana.

• Lasso of Truth: The Lasso of Truth (Kalos Alétheias) is her famous trade mark device. Most who are captured in it, are forced to tell her any questions she asks and make it incapable for him or her to lie. It cannot be broken, snapped or cut. And she can also control it to a certain degree using telepathy. It can also be used to erase memories, heal the mentally ill (in some cases), and implant commands that must then be obeyed.

Transportation

• Flight commonly.
• Invisible Jet

Weapons

• Axe
• Lasso of Truth
• Star Sapphire Ring (formerly)
• Sword of Hephaestus: A magical sword that can seperate the electrons from an atom. It was sharp enough to make Kingdom Come Superman bleed.
• Boomerang Tiara: Diana's golden tiara also doubles as a throwing weapon, as it is razor-edged and can cut through most substances.

Ah, you think that perception is your ally? You merely adopted perception! I was born with it, molded by it! I didn't see incomprehension until I was already a man! By then it was nothing to me but blinding! Perception betrays you…… because it belongs to me!!!!!

@drgnx said:

Ah, you think that perception is your ally? You merely adopted perception! I was born with it, molded by it! I didn't see incomprehension until I was already a man! By then it was nothing to me but blinding! Perception betrays you…… because it belongs to me!!!!!

You´re Bane quoting me? :) what does that mean?

Also makes more sense if The Flash is cracking the jokes. Johns making Hal humorous and Flash wet as a fish, was the stupidest thing ever. Can you tell me why on Earth an advanced alien civilisation would choose a clown like Hal as Johns writes him, to join an elite military force who protect the universe. The guys a completely arrogant baffoon. Its just to make Hal look cool, but makes absolutely no sense to the responsibility bestowed on him. Where as Flash, giving him humor, but obviously not being a prick about it, would show that Flash is the leagues connection to humanity, to average people, as he got his powers through an accident.

@jphulk26 said:

@drgnx said:

Ah, you think that perception is your ally? You merely adopted perception! I was born with it, molded by it! I didn't see incomprehension until I was already a man! By then it was nothing to me but blinding! Perception betrays you…… because it belongs to me!!!!!

You´re Bane quoting me? :) what does that mean?

Also makes more sense if The Flash is cracking the jokes. Johns making Hal humorous and Flash wet as a fish, was the stupidest thing ever. Can you tell me why on Earth an advanced alien civilisation would choose a clown like Hal as Johns writes him, to join an elite military force who protect the universe. The guys a completely arrogant baffoon. Its just to make Hal look cool, but makes absolutely no sense to the responsibility bestowed on him. Where as Flash, giving him humor, but obviously not being a prick about it, would show that Flash is the leagues connection to humanity, to average people, as he got his powers through an accident.

You didn't get my last post, so I figured I would use some Bane humor. That post was not meant to be taken seriously. I was not talking in the literal sense. I was trying to map the JLA characters to Avengers characters, based on "high level" roles. Ironman (without Tony's intellect) was the default level since he was the 3rd strongest but decent fighting skill. Basically I did it so I could make a fuax argument on why Batman should steal the show.

If I'm serious I'd probably try to justify BM having a bigger role in an attempt to build on the Nolan series' momentum, but it could get messy with a new actor, though it didn't hurt with Hulk or War Machine (in IM2). But I'd prefer if they had other movies launched before JL rather than using it to launch the solo movies and prequels.

Wally could be the Michelangelo of the group, but Barry is more serious, so Hal would be the next in line.

What you need to understand about Hal is that each of the human Lanterns have a distinct trait. Like Guy is Stubborn willpower, he will muscle his way through the impossible based on share willingness to do what he wants ... his way. Kyle seems to be more on the imagination aspect of the GL and Jon seems more on the raw strength of will power (if Guy uses his willpower to stand stubbornly still, Jon would use his strength to move mountains...so to speak). But Hal represents the will power to do what needs to be done, when it "really" needs to be done ... and no one else is up to the task. He is the light that shines in the darkest hour, literally the guy who is at his best when things are at their worst. He is pretty much the ultimate underdog that beats the house when lest expected, but most needed. Example would the Darkest night when he created the white lantern corps. Or when he kills Krona during brightest day. That has always been my take at least.

@drgnx said:

You didn't get my last post, so I figured I would use some Bane humor. That post was not meant to be taken seriously. I was not talking in the literal sense. I was trying to map the JLA characters to Avengers characters, based on "high level" roles. Ironman (without Tony's intellect) was the default level since he was the 3rd strongest but decent fighting skill. Basically I did it so I could make a fuax argument on why Batman should steal the show.

I agree Batman in some sense needs to steal the show. But not entirely. I think he should be the one who saves the day ultimately. To show why, even though he has no powers he´s useful and bad ass. But as a launch pad, I´d rather them focus on WW and Flash, and get the general public behind them by building them up i.e. show WW powers, strategy and warrior skill (but still remain true to the character, unlike Geoff´s JL run) and show Flash to be the guy we all relate to. Superman has his showcase in the Man Of Steel, Batman in his various movies, Green Lantern has kind of failed to capture the public, so he´s had his chance. WW on the other hand had that chance years ago in the Lynda Carter show and people loved her, also in the animated film recently people loved her. So she should be given a chance to steal the hearts of a modern and wider audience who aren´t as aware of her anymore. Flash, stole peoples hearts in the JL animated series, and was written really well, as the charming, goofy but very humane anchor of the team. So again he finally deserves that chance. Green Lanter, Batman and Superman are kind of sorted, so there´s no need for that. But as stated before Batman needs to be the guy who ultimately sacrifices and saves the day, because, well he´s THE BATMAN, he´s a badass that´s what he does.

@drgnx said:

@jphulk26 said:

But I'd prefer if they had other movies launched before JL rather than using it to launch the solo movies and prequels.

I agree completely, but DC/WB are unlikely to do that cause they´re greedy fools. But I for one am not going to reward sloppy writing and poor characterization. I´m finding out everything I can before this film comes out on the direction they´re taking it and if I don´t like it, I´ll catch it on the web. I refuse to pay DC just for making a JL movie, so some cocaine sniffing fat cats can get even richer for their numerous fuck ups.

Plus I want origin movies for Flash, WW and possibly MMH.

@drgnx said:

What you need to understand about Hal is that each of the human Lanterns have a distinct trait. Like Guy is Stubborn willpower, he will muscle his way through the impossible based on share willingness to do what he wants ... his way. Kyle seems to be more on the imagination aspect of the GL and Jon seems more on the raw strength of will power (if Guy uses his willpower to stand stubbornly still, Jon would use his strength to move mountains...so to speak). But Hal represents the will power to do what needs to be done, when it "really" needs to be done ... and no one else is up to the task. He is the light that shines in the darkest hour, literally the guy who is at his best when things are at their worst. He is pretty much the ultimate underdog that beats the house when lest expected, but most needed. Example would the Darkest night when he created the white lantern corps. Or when he kills Krona during brightest day. That has always been my take at least.

As for this, I don´t see how this shows me that Hal should be the funny one. If anything I see Hal as the Maverick, kind of like Han Solo if that´s a fair comparison. He´s the one who may take unnecessary risks. But as far as the wise cracking guy, that is defo The Flash´s domain.

@jphulk26: I can understand you wanting WW to get the respect she deserves and, yes, some Superman fans can be a bit annoying. BUT, to be fair, Wonder Woman isn't Superman's exact equal. She's on the same "level" but is clearly the underdog in their fights (Superman will win 7-8/10.) That's not just fan thinking but what DC has consistantly portrayed in the actual comics/shows.

@jphulk26 I said exhibit 3. deatitegonzo said exhbit 2.

@80sBaby: @80sBaby said:

@jphulk26: I can understand you wanting WW to get the respect she deserves and, yes, some Superman fans can be a bit annoying. BUT, to be fair, Wonder Woman isn't Superman's exact equal. She's on the same "level" but is clearly the underdog in their fights (Superman will win 7-8/10.) That's not just fan thinking but what DC has consistantly portrayed in the actual comics/shows.

That just shows that 7-8/10 DC writers know very little about WW, so when they write her it is inconsistent to the powers she usually displays in her own comic. Now I´m not saying that´s her fault; its DC who don´t promote her the way they should. They don´t give her the respect of getting more graphic novels or event story lines with the JLA, that will showcase her abilities more. Added to that her solo comic has often had totally unreadable ridiculous storylines, that most comic writers are not going to venture into. Obviously that happens with all characters, but WW suffers more than Superman and Batman, cause there is few definitive stories of her. As someone said before she´s had a lot of terrible stories written about her, a few great ones, but no legendary stories. As it stands the official story is pre-new 52 WW (not taking into account inconsistencies in how Wonder Woman has been portrayed by writers who didn´t bother to research her at all before writing her) is that her strength is almost equal to Supermans, but her technique as a fighter is a thousand times greater. Its simple really, put a super strong weight lifter up against a seriously trained martial artist or UFC figher, even if they are lighter, they will probably win. So I don´t agree at all that 7-8/10 times Superman would beat WW. I just think at the moment 7-8/10 DC writers are more familiar with who Superman is than who WW is.

@WDW said:

I highly doubt Batman will steal the show based on the rumored story line they will be using (Darksied). Batman is great in Gotham but put him in a Justice League movie and his character, as the main stream movie public knows him, will struggle to be relevant.

Every single Batman movie has Batman in Gotham. Gotham is what makes Batman cool. Gotham made Batman and Batman made gotham.

Put him anyplace else in live action and all of a sudden he has no real purpose.

The rest of the Justice League are "go anywhere superheros"

All the avengers are " go anywhere superheros"

Batman is not and can quickly become gimmicky if he is removed from his Gotham enviroment.

So no I doubt he will steal the show. Batman is the most risky character to include. Partly because he is so well known. Batman is not immune to looking stupid in movies. Remember George Clooney?

I personally think Batman shouldn´t steal the show, but he should be the guy who saves the day in the end. Otherwise it will just make him look pretty unnecessary, just lik,e the JLA cartoon. By the way what are your thoughts on the discussion above. Superman vs Wonder Woman, why do you think WW is portrayed as weaker than Superman more often than not?

@jphulk26: I don't think DC doesn't know WW. It's just that their opinion is the she's below Superman. Even if we compare thieir individual feats from their individual comics, Clark surpasses her by quite a bit. As far as skills go, WW suffers from the same issue as Thor or Hercules do, they're skills are talked about but rarely shown. In comics, martial skills can allow a character to fight way above their weight class (i.e. Cap can beat a 20-tonner due "skill.") This would mean that Diana should be taking on Galactus-level beings. I'm sure you can see the inherent problem with that. I think they should place Diana's strength level around Thing-class (60-85 tons.) This would enable writers to showcase Diana's skill when she does fight people like Superman. It also opens her up so that she can be more of the practical warrior she should be and actually USE her gear to even the odds.

@80sBaby said:

@jphulk26: I don't think DC doesn't know WW. It's just that their opinion is the she's below Superman. Even if we compare thieir individual feats from their individual comics, Clark surpasses her by quite a bit. As far as skills go, WW suffers from the same issue as Thor or Hercules do, they're skills are talked about but rarely shown. In comics, martial skills can allow a character to fight way above their weight class (i.e. Cap can beat a 20-tonner due "skill.") This would mean that Diana should be taking on Galactus-level beings. I'm sure you can see the inherent problem with that. I think they should place Diana's strength level around Thing-class (60-85 tons.) This would enable writers to showcase Diana's skill when she does fight people like Superman. It also opens her up so that she can be more of the practical warrior she should be and actually USE her gear to even the odds.

@80sBaby: I didn´t say DC, I said their writing staff, who openly admit to not having read that much if any of WW. Azzerrelo, has admitted that, JMS has admitted that. A number of others who haven´t written for her have admitted that, including the guy writing her Earth One comic Grant Morrison, who in his favor unlike Azzerrelo has decided to take time to research. Where as writers like Jimminez, Loeb, Simone, Rucka, Perrez, they were big fans of WW before they started writing, and alot of people who wrote her solo publication, inbetween Simone and Rucka were also fans. However the guys who have written JL have not been. I´m not sure about Geoff. But in interviews alot of writers on DC staff have openly admitted they have seriously never read WW and don´t know what makes her tick etc etc, so they go on to write JL comics and depower her, they don´t utilize powers she has, or just try and ignore her being in the team as much as possible.

The fact is I´m granting you that Superman is stronger, but even that was due to the blatant sexism of writers in the 50´s, who de-powered her from her initial position, as the creator of WW wanted, which was she was exactly as strong as Superman. Writers obviously in the 50s wanted to take away all that progressive stuff from her and make her instead a domesticated house wife for Steve Trevor, mean while Superman gained new powers every week. But hey thats just the way it goes, in 50´s that was the way the world worked. Since then the 70s show came out, and took the character back to her progressive roots, and feminists in the 70s came out demanding that she be given her powers back when Danny O´Neil took them away. As such Perrez came along and wrote the first cannon origin story since WMM (the creator), in that comic it is clear that WW´s powers are again made equal or near equal to Superman, and more is made of her warrior training than before, as we see the Amazon Queen Hippolyta easily defeat Heraclitus (Hercules) in a one on one fight despite possessing no extraordinary strength. She beats him simply through use of her Amazon training. That´s a guy who supposed to be as strong as Superman, and Amazon training allowed her to beat him with no powers. So as stated before, with WW it is a sea-saw of who is writing her, some decide to go back to the progressive origins, others just remember her from the TV show, and other JL comics and write her in accordance with that image. But clearly those who write her and bother to research the character know she is nearly or as strong as Superman, and added to that her warrior training is the finest one can have, combine the two and Superman would be in serious trouble in a straight out fight, and while not definite, it is overwhelmingly possible that she could beat him.

You are making it sound like her being as strong as Superman will make popular again. That it will boast her sales. But powerhouse heroes arn't as popular as they used to be. It would be better to have her as a combat skilled heroine. They are more popular among the gp.

@darkman61288: No I wasn´t talking about sales of her comics, that has nothing to do with this discussion. I was strictly talking about what they could do in the movie, that will be a sure fire way to get demand from the general audience to see her in her own film. That was it. I thought a lot of people would strongly respond if somehow Supes and her got into a scuffle, and although he dishes out some punishment on her, she ends up victorious using her martial skills and warrior skills. i.e. it will be made clear that he trumps her by a bit in the strength department, but her cunning and proficiency as a hand to hand combatant allows her to eventually gain the upper hand. It would also look epic on screen. I think a general audience would respond to that, but I also think women and girls would really respond to it. I mean boys are sold on the JL movie anyway, but if girls wanna watch it it will be huge, added to that I think then women who don´t know much about WW will get on board and demand she gets her own movie. Its kinda like what they did with Hulk in the Avengers, his popularity was waning so they made him absolutely kick ass, so their was so much demand for a film that now Whedon is working on it.

Anyway I think you misunderstood the point.

@jphulk26 said:

I agree Batman in some sense needs to steal the show. But not entirely. I think he should be the one who saves the day ultimately. To show why, even though he has no powers he´s useful and bad ass. But as a launch pad, I´d rather them focus on WW and Flash, and get the general public behind them by building them up i.e. show WW powers, strategy and warrior skill (but still remain true to the character, unlike Geoff´s JL run) and show Flash to be the guy we all relate to. Superman has his showcase in the Man Of Steel, Batman in his various movies, Green Lantern has kind of failed to capture the public, so he´s had his chance. WW on the other hand had that chance years ago in the Lynda Carter show and people loved her, also in the animated film recently people loved her. So she should be given a chance to steal the hearts of a modern and wider audience who aren´t as aware of her anymore. Flash, stole peoples hearts in the JL animated series, and was written really well, as the charming, goofy but very humane anchor of the team. So again he finally deserves that chance. Green Lanter, Batman and Superman are kind of sorted, so there´s no need for that. But as stated before Batman needs to be the guy who ultimately sacrifices and saves the day, because, well he´s THE BATMAN, he´s a badass that´s what he does.

***

I agree completely, but DC/WB are unlikely to do that cause they´re greedy fools. But I for one am not going to reward sloppy writing and poor characterization. I´m finding out everything I can before this film comes out on the direction they´re taking it and if I don´t like it, I´ll catch it on the web. I refuse to pay DC just for making a JL movie, so some cocaine sniffing fat cats can get even richer for their numerous fuck ups.

Plus I want origin movies for Flash, WW and possibly MMH.

Expansion should be one of their priorities. There was a clear picking order in avengers and it seemed to relate to movie success, but considering it also seemed to relate to order of usefulness it would be interesting to know which influenced character screen time most.

Also I think you're talking about Wally not Barry they have different personalities.

@drgnx said:

What you need to understand about Hal is that each of the human Lanterns have a distinct trait. Like Guy is Stubborn willpower, he will muscle his way through the impossible based on share willingness to do what he wants ... his way. Kyle seems to be more on the imagination aspect of the GL and Jon seems more on the raw strength of will power (if Guy uses his willpower to stand stubbornly still, Jon would use his strength to move mountains...so to speak). But Hal represents the will power to do what needs to be done, when it "really" needs to be done ... and no one else is up to the task. He is the light that shines in the darkest hour, literally the guy who is at his best when things are at their worst. He is pretty much the ultimate underdog that beats the house when lest expected, but most needed. Example would the Darkest night when he created the white lantern corps. Or when he kills Krona during brightest day. That has always been my take at least.

As for this, I don´t see how this shows me that Hal should be the funny one. If anything I see Hal as the Maverick, kind of like Han Solo if that´s a fair comparison. He´s the one who may take unnecessary risks. But as far as the wise cracking guy, that is defo The Flash´s domain.

You asked:

Can you tell me why on Earth an advanced alien civilisation would choose a clown like Hal as Johns writes him, to join an elite military force who protect the universe. The guys a completely arrogant baffoon. Its just to make Hal look cool, but makes absolutely no sense to the responsibility bestowed on him.

Basically the ring chooses Hal, the lanterns/guardians doubt him, but he ultimately proves himself.

As for why I think Hal would be the joker of the group, its because as you said it, he is the clown and humor is normally the role of the Jester. In avengers the wacky humor seemed to come from Thor and Hulk while the charming/sofisticated humor came from Tony. Hal's and Barry's friendship could certainly be played on.

@drgnx said:

Basically the ring chooses Hal, the lanterns/guardians doubt him, but he ultimately proves himself.

As for why I think Hal would be the joker of the group, its because as you said it, he is the clown and humor is normally the role of the Jester. In avengers the wacky humor seemed to come from Thor and Hulk while the charming/sofisticated humor came from Tony. Hal's and Barry's friendship could certainly be played on.

So the question remains why would the ring choose a retarded bafoon, to handle such power? Johns has completely ruined the dynamic of the JL. he chose the wrong team, and tried to make JL funny cause he wants everyone to like Hal as much as he does. But look here´s a list of why Geoffs failed, even though I don´t think its one of the worse New52 titles by a long shot.

1) Green Lantern´s thing is his willpower, to have a great deal of will power you need an inner strength and endurance. Hal does not come off like that guy at all he just comes off as a pompos idiot.

2) He gets Hal to undermine Batman at every corner, about how he´s useless on the team. But at the same time he doesn´t make up for that by getting Batman to do anything useful himself. All Batman does is get other people to do stuff for him. Making Hal basically right in that Batman is uselss and he´s pretty much endangering everyone else by being in the team.

3) why is batman useless? because of cyborg. Cyborg doesn´t meld well with the team, because all the things Batman is supposed to do, Cyborg can do instantly with his inbuilt gadgets. He´s also got a genius intellect. So what does Batman do? Throw his baterangs?

4) Wonder Woman/ Superman getting together. Wonder Woman is also not really even WW anymore.

5) because Hal is now the humerous one, Flash has no character anymore. He´s basically devoid of any personality.

Why the animated series got it exactly right in terms of the dynamics of the group.

If you look at how the animated series operated (as much as I didn´t like their portrayal of WW and Batman) every character had their usefulness and skill. The way they related ton one another allowed the stories to be funny, dramatic, and tense.

Look the fact is Barry Allen, before wally West came along had little or no personality, he was just good for the sake of being good. So the animated series improved and gave Flash, and Green Lantern and MMH distinct personalities that contrasted well with the rest of the group. If JL purists who constantly complain they don´t want Wally West to be in the JL he should be in Young Justice, then they should get B.A. to take on some of that humor and humanity, so that he at least has a personality. Otherwise what, he´s a detective, well Batmans a detective, so how does that work? He´s a bit straightlaced, well thats superman? what is the Flash if he isn´t the everyman, we can relate to, the guy who got his powers by accident, not being chosen, or some billionaire or an alien or a goddess. It follows directly from the premis of how he got his powers that he should be the funny man, the audience relates to.

@jphulk26 said

So the question remains why would the ring choose a retarded bafoon, to handle such power? Johns has completely ruined the dynamic of the JL. he chose the wrong team, and tried to make JL funny cause he wants everyone to like Hal as much as he does. But look here´s a list of why Geoffs failed, even though I don´t think its one of the worse New52 titles by a long shot.

1) Green Lantern´s thing is his willpower, to have a great deal of will power you need an inner strength and endurance. Hal does not come off like that guy at all he just comes off as a pompos idiot.

2) He gets Hal to undermine Batman at every corner, about how he´s useless on the team. But at the same time he doesn´t make up for that by getting Batman to do anything useful himself. All Batman does is get other people to do stuff for him. Making Hal basically right in that Batman is uselss and he´s pretty much endangering everyone else by being in the team.

3) why is batman useless? because of cyborg. Cyborg doesn´t meld well with the team, because all the things Batman is supposed to do, Cyborg can do instantly with his inbuilt gadgets. He´s also got a genius intellect. So what does Batman do? Throw his baterangs?

4) Wonder Woman/ Superman getting together. Wonder Woman is also not really even WW anymore.

5) because Hal is now the humerous one, Flash has no character anymore. He´s basically devoid of any personality.

Why the animated series got it exactly right in terms of the dynamics of the group.

If you look at how the animated series operated (as much as I didn´t like their portrayal of WW and Batman) every character had their usefulness and skill. The way they related ton one another allowed the stories to be funny, dramatic, and tense.

Look the fact is Barry Allen, before wally West came along had little or no personality, he was just good for the sake of being good. So the animated series improved and gave Flash, and Green Lantern and MMH distinct personalities that contrasted well with the rest of the group. If JL purists who constantly complain they don´t want Wally West to be in the JL he should be in Young Justice, then they should get B.A. to take on some of that humor and humanity, so that he at least has a personality. Otherwise what, he´s a detective, well Batmans a detective, so how does that work? He´s a bit straightlaced, well thats superman? what is the Flash if he isn´t the everyman, we can relate to, the guy who got his powers by accident, not being chosen, or some billionaire or an alien or a goddess. It follows directly from the premis of how he got his powers that he should be the funny man, the audience relates to

I agree with everything you just said. That is why Bruce timm should be Chief Creatice Officer. Also I think taht Zatanna should of been in the main Justice League. They need another girl.

@jphulk26 said:

@drgnx said:

Basically the ring chooses Hal, the lanterns/guardians doubt him, but he ultimately proves himself.

As for why I think Hal would be the joker of the group, its because as you said it, he is the clown and humor is normally the role of the Jester. In avengers the wacky humor seemed to come from Thor and Hulk while the charming/sofisticated humor came from Tony. Hal's and Barry's friendship could certainly be played on.

So the question remains why would the ring choose a retarded bafoon, to handle such power? Johns has completely ruined the dynamic of the JL. he chose the wrong team, and tried to make JL funny cause he wants everyone to like Hal as much as he does. But look here´s a list of why Geoffs failed, even though I don´t think its one of the worse New52 titles by a long shot.

The rings choose based on potential. Batman is good but was nearly chosen by a yellow ring. The rings don't seem to look for good vs evil or personality as much as raw potential. Yellow lanterns seem addicted to fear so I think Dc is moving away for ring alignments in terms of the users being picked for good or evil. Even Green lanterns have been corrupted for instance. But back on topic, Hal represents the light in the darkest hour, that is the way DC wants him, I don't see why that is different than any other hero who must learn to overcome their personal flaws and doubts.

1) Green Lantern´s thing is his willpower, to have a great deal of will power you need an inner strength and endurance. Hal does not come off like that guy at all he just comes off as a pompos idiot.

2) He gets Hal to undermine Batman at every corner, about how he´s useless on the team. But at the same time he doesn´t make up for that by getting Batman to do anything useful himself. All Batman does is get other people to do stuff for him. Making Hal basically right in that Batman is uselss and he´s pretty much endangering everyone else by being in the team.

3) why is batman useless? because of cyborg. Cyborg doesn´t meld well with the team, because all the things Batman is supposed to do, Cyborg can do instantly with his inbuilt gadgets. He´s also got a genius intellect. So what does Batman do? Throw his baterangs?

4) Wonder Woman/ Superman getting together. Wonder Woman is also not really even WW anymore.

5) because Hal is now the humerous one, Flash has no character anymore. He´s basically devoid of any personality.

Why the animated series got it exactly right in terms of the dynamics of the group.

If you look at how the animated series operated (as much as I didn´t like their portrayal of WW and Batman) every character had their usefulness and skill. The way they related ton one another allowed the stories to be funny, dramatic, and tense.

Look the fact is Barry Allen, before wally West came along had little or no personality, he was just good for the sake of being good. So the animated series improved and gave Flash, and Green Lantern and MMH distinct personalities that contrasted well with the rest of the group. If JL purists who constantly complain they don´t want Wally West to be in the JL he should be in Young Justice, then they should get B.A. to take on some of that humor and humanity, so that he at least has a personality. Otherwise what, he´s a detective, well Batmans a detective, so how does that work? He´s a bit straightlaced, well thats superman? what is the Flash if he isn´t the everyman, we can relate to, the guy who got his powers by accident, not being chosen, or some billionaire or an alien or a goddess. It follows directly from the premis of how he got his powers that he should be the funny man, the audience relates to.

I'm not sure where some of this is coming from, you have a habit of going off going left when replying to my posts. If you don't like some of the relations/characters with the comic vs the A.S. lineup that's fine. I'm pretty sure someone on the team would have ended up like him.

Barry is a forensic scientist, not a detective. I think MMH has been shown as a detective. As for over-lapping abilities on DC team, they don't work, DC generally ignores characters abilities on teams to make them fit. Barry is not Wally so making more like wally in the movie for humor purposes would cause issues with fans.

@drgnx said:

@jphulk26 said:

I'm not sure where some of this is coming from, you have a habit of going off going left when replying to my posts. If you don't like some of the relations/characters with the comic vs the A.S. lineup that's fine. I'm pretty sure someone on the team would have ended up like him.

Barry is a forensic scientist, not a detective. I think MMH has been shown as a detective. As for over-lapping abilities on DC team, they don't work, DC generally ignores characters abilities on teams to make them fit. Barry is not Wally so making more like wally in the movie for humor purposes would cause issues with fans.

I study forensic psychology, Batman in the comics is supposed to be a self taught forensics scientist, and, forensic psychologist, which is why he´s such a good detective. Its basically the same thing forensics is basically the science of solving crimes. So again Barry Allen being a great forensic psychologist negates what Batman does. If he´s just some average one, and a normal guy it will make more sense. By the way you seem to be getting upset, claiming I´m going off left field, I was just politely answering back to your initial post as to why I don´t think you´re right in your estimation that Hal Jordan should be the clown. I was showing that by comparing the dynamic with the animated series which I think to a large extent got the characters exactly right and how they should be. Geoff Johns Is not thinking logically who these characters are, how they got their powers, or became superheroes, where as the guys behind the animated series did, and therefore they let that inform the characters personalities.

@darkman61288: Thanks man. But why do you think Zanatana? I don´t know much about her. I thought Vixen could be better, to add diversity, and like Zantana, she´s an original superheroine who isn´t the spin off from a male.

I seriously think Geoff should get rid of Cyborg though.