The Geoff Johns and Brian Azzarello Wonder Woman Dispute

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#1 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

Post-Flashpoint, Wonder Woman has been written by Justice League scribe Geoff Johns and Wonder Woman scribe Brian Azzarello. And the differences between their writing shows. Geoff Johns has been building on the pulp elements of Wonder Woman while Brian Azzarello has been building on her mythological side. And there's hardly any overlap between the two writers. I believe I know why.

Johns is the Chief Creative Officer for DC Comics, so he probably wanted to establish some elements of her mythos himself (her origin, Steve Trevor, her personality, her traditional villains). Brian Azzarello is probably not allowed to use these elements until Geoff is done. He may also not want to have anything to do with what Geoff is doing. It's clear that Azzarello wants to tell timeless Wonder Woman stories, so it would make sense for him to avoid the "Electric Blue Superman" elements found in comics today (such as WW's relationship with Superman that is sure to end post-Twilight of the Superheroes crossover). Some key ways Azzarello has differed from or ignored Johns include:

1) Giving Wonder Woman a different personality from Justice League

2) Ignoring the Wonder Woman status quo and plot threads

3) Avoiding the pulp elements of Wonder Woman for the Olympians

Again, I think Azzarello's motivation for not interacting with the rest of the DC Universe is that he wants to tell timeless Wonder Woman stories that are not bogged down by elements of the New52 that may be dropped later on. And Johns can't really do anything about it because he's still not done establishing Wonder Woman, Azzarello's Wonder Woman is selling better than before Flashpoint, and Johns doesn't have the time to write Wonder Woman's solo himself.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on these writers and my theories below!

P.S. I'm loving what both writers are doing for Wonder Woman

#2 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm I've been wondering about the differences myself but you seem to have covered all the bases. This explains a lot of differences between Johns and Azzarello in their depictions of Wonder Woman. But Azzarello is doing a far better job than Johns at writing Wonder Woman no contest there.

#3 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

Azzarello is doing a FAR better job with Wonder Woman.

#4 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

It is better for each title to be independent (similar to most manga) and this is more accessible to new customers. The more versions, the merrier.

#5 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@OutlawRenegade said:

P.S. I'm loving what both writers are doing for Wonder Woman

You may be the only person that I've heard say that!

I like your theories.good write up.

#6 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe Azzarello is just too busy to read Justice League ?

#7 Posted by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

But Azzarello is doing a far better job than Johns at writing Wonder Woman no contest there.

Moderator
#8 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

I listened to an audio interview with Azzarello a few weeks back in which he stated that he has no interest in touching upon Wonder Woman's romance with Superman. He also said that DC is contemplating starting up a 2nd book for Wonder Woman with a more straight-up superheroic approach - which he has no interest in writing.

I tried Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman and found it to read more like a soap opera focused on the Olympian pantheon with Diana as their supporting character. This book is not really about Wonder Woman for lots of reasons:

1.) Her classic origin was given what some people call "a new layer" by having the clay origin be just a story that Hippolyta told people in order to hide the fact that Zeus is Diana's father. Diana has been turned into a female Hercules rather than keeping her unique origin of being given life and enhanced abilities from various Olympian deities.

2.) Her known supporting cast is not present in this book. Steve Trevor and Etta Candy had to be introduced in Justice League. The Amazons, who were once shining examples of feminine accomplishment and achievement have been turned into man-killing, baby-trading savages. These women certainly do not seem capable of creating high-tech devices like the Invisible Jet or the Purple Ray like previous incarnations did.

3.) Her arch-nemesis the Cheetah also had to be introduced in Justice League. The Cheetah, Giganta, Circe, Dr. Psycho, the Silver Swan and all of Diana's other rogues are nowhere to be seen in her solo book.

4.) In issue #14, Diana only appeared on 8 of the 20 pages. In #15, she only appeared on 11 of 20. How can anyone say that this book is more about Wonder Woman than the Olympians with how little she is actually seen?

5.) The Olympians aren't even exclusive DC characters. Marvel, Dynamite, or any other comic company could put out a comic about them so for Azzarello to feature them so prominently in Wonder Woman seems pointless. I'd rather see DC Comics focused on DC characters.

I know there are some that are enjoying Wonder Woman's solo book but I hope that DC does start up another book that prominently features Diana in more of a straight-up superheroic approach fighting her rogues, spending time as Diana Prince in order to get more acquainted with life outside of Paradise Island, and getting to know Steve, Etta, Donna Troy, Julia & Vanessa, and Cassie.

#9 Posted by Squalleon (4737 posts) - - Show Bio

@OutlawRenegade: Great Post!

I,to believe that each writer does their best for their book.

Azzarello has a direct WW approach that Johns can't have in his team book.

Johns WW is definetely better for a general DCU book but if we are talking solo books i think Azzarello does a fantastic job!

Online
#10 Posted by Shutdown (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@Power_Guy: You do realise that the Amazons are being portrayed according to Greek Mythology, which seems to be an important part of Azzarello's run. I also think it's important that Azzarello sets up Diana's foundation and backstory before perhaps delving into some of her other rogues.

Also, I like both of WW's origins but isn't the whole "clay baby bestowed with life and abilities by different Greek Gods" similar to Captain Marvel's origin, in regards to being bestowed abilities by different Gods. But Captain Marvel (I guess Shazam now) and his origin may be different.

#11 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shutdown said:

@Power_Guy: You do realise that the Amazons are being portrayed according to Greek Mythology, which seems to be an important part of Azzarello's run. I also think it's important that Azzarello sets up Diana's foundation and backstory before perhaps delving into some of her other rogues.

Also, I like both of WW's origins but isn't the whole "clay baby bestowed with life and abilities by different Greek Gods" similar to Captain Marvel's origin, in regards to being bestowed abilities by different Gods. But Captain Marvel (I guess Shazam now) and his origin may be different.

I'd rather see DC's previous unique interpretation of the Amazons than have Azzarello copy them from Greek myth. As for the Captain Marvel comparison, they may have similar powers but that's where I see their similarities ending.

#12 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

WW is different in JL book.I don't think it's that big of a problem.It's only a problem if Johns writes undermines what Azz did.

#13 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shutdown: Captain Marvels origin is really different, but very cool. One of my favorite heroes, but the wizard Shazaam grants him those powers. Little Billy Batson walks into a train station and finds himself in a mystical lair of a wizard Shazaam, who then grants him his powers. Equally even if they are the same, couldn´t you argue that Azzerrello´s WW origin is now the same as half the heroes of Greek antiquity, including Hercules or Heraclitus?

I know this is going to be taken the wrong way, and I don´t want to use the dredded word "feminism" because it causes such a ruckas around here, but the reason the creator of WW changed the Amazon story from the original greek mythology version is because he wanted to show how the greeks used it as properganda to undermine the notion that women could run their own society. He was claiming the greeks and romans so feared the idea of female rule, that they created this myth of the amazons in which they were backward, cruel and barbaric. By Azzerrello saying he wants to take them back to their classical roots, he´s undoing

the idea of WW´s creator to portray that the Greeks were just lying and that the Amazons created a Utopian Society, with a material, spiritual and social culture that was just as advanced as mans world. Azzerrello it seems once again hasn´t got the point of what the original creator was doing. William Moulton Marston being the original creator.

Also just to finish, if Azzerrello wants to explore the myth of the Amazons and the culture as described by the greeks, i´m really confused, because they´ve only featured in two issues, most of which was Hippolyta getting screwed quite graphically by Zeus, soon after they were turned into snakes, and then there was the revelation with Hafaestus, but they haven´t actually featured that much in the book at all. Its not a very thorough job if you ask me.

@Power_Guy: Can you tell me where you saw that interview, a link please.

#14 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@Shutdown: Captain Marvels origin is really different, but very cool. One of my favorite heroes, but the wizard Shazaam grants him those powers. Little Billy Batson walks into a train station and finds himself in a mystical lair of a wizard Shazaam, who then grants him his powers. Equally even if they are the same, couldn´t you argue that Azzerrello´s WW origin is now the same as half the heroes of Greek antiquity, including Hercules or Heraclitus?

I know this is going to be taken the wrong way, and I don´t want to use the dredded word "feminism" because it causes such a ruckas around here, but the reason the creator of WW changed the Amazon story from the original greek mythology version is because he wanted to show how the greeks used it as properganda to undermine the notion that women could run their own society. He was claiming the greeks and romans so feared the idea of female rule, that they created this myth of the amazons in which they were backward, cruel and barbaric. By Azzerrello saying he wants to take them back to their classical roots, he´s undoing

the idea of WW´s creator to portray that the Greeks were just lying and that the Amazons created a Utopian Society, with a material, spiritual and social culture that was just as advanced as mans world. Azzerrello it seems once again hasn´t got the point of what the original creator was doing. William Moulton Marston being the original creator.

Also just to finish, if Azzerrello wants to explore the myth of the Amazons and the culture as described by the greeks, i´m really confused, because they´ve only featured in two issues, most of which was Hippolyta getting screwed quite graphically by Zeus, soon after they were turned into snakes, and then there was the revelation with Hafaestus, but they haven´t actually featured that much in the book at all. Its not a very thorough job if you ask me.

@Power_Guy: Can you tell me where you saw that interview, a link please.

Here you go: http://ifanboy.com/podcasts/word-balloon-brian-azzarello-dc-execs-wayne-cunningham-nfl-star-israel-idonije-and-jesse-blaze-snider/

BTW - You made a great point about the Amazons! :)

#15 Edited by Jake Fury (19169 posts) - - Show Bio

Love Azzarello on WW so very much. I never read WW pre-Flashpoint but I am hooked on the new series. I think Johns has done a decent job with Diana but just hasn't gotten too in depth with her.

#16 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Power_Guy: which one? I love compliments. ;)

#17 Posted by RazzaTazz (9698 posts) - - Show Bio
@OutlawRenegade: That is a good point, the stuff so far from the main series is not really dateable.  It should come from anytime, and any era.  I am not even sure if there has been a reference to anything non WW outside of the series thus far
#18 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@Power_Guy: which one? I love compliments. ;)

This one:

"I know this is going to be taken the wrong way, and I don´t want to use the dredded word "feminism" because it causes such a ruckas around here, but the reason the creator of WW changed the Amazon story from the original greek mythology version is because he wanted to show how the greeks used it as properganda to undermine the notion that women could run their own society. He was claiming the greeks and romans so feared the idea of female rule, that they created this myth of the amazons in which they were backward, cruel and barbaric. By Azzerrello saying he wants to take them back to their classical roots, he´s undoing."

:)

#19 Posted by telepathic666 (227 posts) - - Show Bio

@Power_Guy said:

I listened to an audio interview with Azzarello a few weeks back in which he stated that he has no interest in touching upon Wonder Woman's romance with Superman. He also said that DC is contemplating starting up a 2nd book for Wonder Woman with a more straight-up superheroic approach - which he has no interest in writing.

I tried Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman and found it to read more like a soap opera focused on the Olympian pantheon with Diana as their supporting character. This book is not really about Wonder Woman for lots of reasons:

1.) Her classic origin was given what some people call "a new layer" by having the clay origin be just a story that Hippolyta told people in order to hide the fact that Zeus is Diana's father. Diana has been turned into a female Hercules rather than keeping her unique origin of being given life and enhanced abilities from various Olympian deities.

2.) Her known supporting cast is not present in this book. Steve Trevor and Etta Candy had to be introduced in Justice League. The Amazons, who were once shining examples of feminine accomplishment and achievement have been turned into man-killing, baby-trading savages. These women certainly do not seem capable of creating high-tech devices like the Invisible Jet or the Purple Ray like previous incarnations did.

3.) Her arch-nemesis the Cheetah also had to be introduced in Justice League. The Cheetah, Giganta, Circe, Dr. Psycho, the Silver Swan and all of Diana's other rogues are nowhere to be seen in her solo book.

4.) In issue #14, Diana only appeared on 8 of the 20 pages. In #15, she only appeared on 11 of 20. How can anyone say that this book is more about Wonder Woman than the Olympians with how little she is actually seen?

5.) The Olympians aren't even exclusive DC characters. Marvel, Dynamite, or any other comic company could put out a comic about them so for Azzarello to feature them so prominently in Wonder Woman seems pointless. I'd rather see DC Comics focused on DC characters.

I know there are some that are enjoying Wonder Woman's solo book but I hope that DC does start up another book that prominently features Diana in more of a straight-up superheroic approach fighting her rogues, spending time as Diana Prince in order to get more acquainted with life outside of Paradise Island, and getting to know Steve, Etta, Donna Troy, Julia & Vanessa, and Cassie.

She is far from a female Hercules, I'd even draw more a modern day super powered Xena which I am very ok with,

her new supporting cast is a breath of fresh air

circe is a greek sorceress she can still show up there the others can show up in sensation comics or JL and be ok

in 15 Hephaestus is the only olympian and shows up for a brief period

and we all know marvel has dibs on Norse Mythology one of thier big three being directly from Mythology itself

I think it's good because it feels like a more personal story that isn't dependent on having her team up with someone else. She has shown up in other books so it's not like she is isolated to her solo title.

Of all the female characters in the new 52 she isn't overly sexual. From the jump it's been story driven, I'm so thankful for this run and it being a "separate" entity from the rest of the universe and it's about her but it's not just her story there is so much going on that you want to know more not just one fight you, talk to you be surprised by this done. However for some fans I think a second title with more hero interaction will be good.

#20 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

The old Wonder Woman stuff with Steve, Etta, Cheetah, etc. did not really sell well so I don't see dc trying the old stuff again in Wonder Woman solo titles.

#21 Posted by StarKiller809 (1239 posts) - - Show Bio

I really didn't even think that it was a contest. I think Azzarello has done a much better job with Wonder Woman. Geoff Johns has wrote a fine Wonder Woman, but I prefer the intellectual Diana that Brian writes.

I also feel that some of the characters in Justice League feel sorta more that Geoff has to write. Wonder Woman is one of those characters.

Both versions have their ups and downs but I think Azzerallo has done a much better job and will hold up much better then the stories being told in Justice League.

#22 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: This isn´t selling well either. Its selling about the same, to a little bit less.

#23 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman probably needs more reboots same as what Dc is doing with Green Arrow which did not do well in the first year of New 52. Other dc properties that need more reboots are Aquaman, Hawkman and Firestorm.

#24 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: Nope, they need good media exposure, good writing, respect core fans and the story, and movies. Then they will at the very least sell merchandise and toys and at best sell comics. I´m not sure Green Arrow is a great concept in the first place, to much like batman. Aquaman and Fireman kind of the same thing. Aquaman less though. But really they should be focusing on Flash WW MMH and GL. They are good characters and deserve more. Secondly to get the tween market, they need to do something with Young Justice. I think their best stuff has been with Watchmen this year, most have been really good titles and sold well. Do you know how Arrow is doing at the moment?

#25 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

At this point, I never want Geoff Johns to write Wonder Woman or any of my favorite characters again.

#26 Posted by lorex (958 posts) - - Show Bio

Overall I thnk Azzarello's portrayal of Wonder Woman is FAR superior to what John's is producing in Justice League. She has some depth to her character and does not always resort to punching her way out of situations. Stark contrast to the Wonder Woman er are getting in Justice League. The problem is in a clash of egos between the 2 Johns is going to win. I think Justice League would be better served with a Wonder Woman that was more closely connected the the Azzarello version of the character. The one thing I do not like was the change in the origin story. I felt being clay turned flesh as a result of the gods answering Hippolyta prayers was better than just another bastard child of the man whore Zeus. Also while I like the Azzarello version of the character his story is somewhat outside the superhero norm and when his time on the title is done the character is going to change quite a bit.

#27 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@telepathic666 said:

@Power_Guy said:

I listened to an audio interview with Azzarello a few weeks back in which he stated that he has no interest in touching upon Wonder Woman's romance with Superman. He also said that DC is contemplating starting up a 2nd book for Wonder Woman with a more straight-up superheroic approach - which he has no interest in writing.

I tried Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman and found it to read more like a soap opera focused on the Olympian pantheon with Diana as their supporting character. This book is not really about Wonder Woman for lots of reasons:

1.) Her classic origin was given what some people call "a new layer" by having the clay origin be just a story that Hippolyta told people in order to hide the fact that Zeus is Diana's father. Diana has been turned into a female Hercules rather than keeping her unique origin of being given life and enhanced abilities from various Olympian deities.

2.) Her known supporting cast is not present in this book. Steve Trevor and Etta Candy had to be introduced in Justice League. The Amazons, who were once shining examples of feminine accomplishment and achievement have been turned into man-killing, baby-trading savages. These women certainly do not seem capable of creating high-tech devices like the Invisible Jet or the Purple Ray like previous incarnations did.

3.) Her arch-nemesis the Cheetah also had to be introduced in Justice League. The Cheetah, Giganta, Circe, Dr. Psycho, the Silver Swan and all of Diana's other rogues are nowhere to be seen in her solo book.

4.) In issue #14, Diana only appeared on 8 of the 20 pages. In #15, she only appeared on 11 of 20. How can anyone say that this book is more about Wonder Woman than the Olympians with how little she is actually seen?

5.) The Olympians aren't even exclusive DC characters. Marvel, Dynamite, or any other comic company could put out a comic about them so for Azzarello to feature them so prominently in Wonder Woman seems pointless. I'd rather see DC Comics focused on DC characters.

I know there are some that are enjoying Wonder Woman's solo book but I hope that DC does start up another book that prominently features Diana in more of a straight-up superheroic approach fighting her rogues, spending time as Diana Prince in order to get more acquainted with life outside of Paradise Island, and getting to know Steve, Etta, Donna Troy, Julia & Vanessa, and Cassie.

She is far from a female Hercules, I'd even draw more a modern day super powered Xena which I am very ok with,

her new supporting cast is a breath of fresh air

circe is a greek sorceress she can still show up there the others can show up in sensation comics or JL and be ok

in 15 Hephaestus is the only olympian and shows up for a brief period

and we all know marvel has dibs on Norse Mythology one of thier big three being directly from Mythology itself

I think it's good because it feels like a more personal story that isn't dependent on having her team up with someone else. She has shown up in other books so it's not like she is isolated to her solo title.

Of all the female characters in the new 52 she isn't overly sexual. From the jump it's been story driven, I'm so thankful for this run and it being a "separate" entity from the rest of the universe and it's about her but it's not just her story there is so much going on that you want to know more not just one fight you, talk to you be surprised by this done. However for some fans I think a second title with more hero interaction will be good.

Hephaestus is the only Olympian in #15? Doesn't Hera count?

#28 Posted by telepathic666 (227 posts) - - Show Bio

not since zola can make her bleed

#29 Posted by cloudzackvincent (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

Azzarello's WW is far better and i would like to point out that his run is still selling better than pre 52 period.

#30 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@OutlawRenegade: This isn't any big deal at all. It's not atypical for characters to be a little different in a team book then they are in their own titles.

#31 Posted by Outside_85 (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

To be blunt I think Johns hasn't moved past the notion that Diana is the only woman on his team and that she therefore must be more fragile if not incompetent than the rest of the team (Wonder Woman should never ever need the help of Aquaman or the entire League to beat Cheeta). Not to mention all there seems to be about her in JL is about who she dates, first it's Graves digging into Trevor then Superman suddenly makes her swoon...How Johns writes WW is one of the major reasons I want him off the book.

As for Brian's take. Well it's embracing the part of the character I personally find really fascinating. So I am in no hurry to see the usual gaggle of madwomen and bonkers scientists...but I am certain Azzarello could do them better than Johns could.

#32 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

all there seems to be about her in JL is about who she dates, first it's Graves digging into Trevor then Superman suddenly makes her swoon...

This is my biggest issue. I don't want her to be seen as someone's girlfriend. I want the guy to be seen as her boyfriend. She shouldn't be overshadowed by who she dates, and who she dates shouldn't be central to her character. That's why I think the Trinity should stay out of each other's pants. Let her date Steve (or Orion if you need another superhero).

#33 Posted by Goldenboy_Prime (172 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork said:

@Outside_85 said:

all there seems to be about her in JL is about who she dates, first it's Graves digging into Trevor then Superman suddenly makes her swoon...

This is my biggest issue. I don't want her to be seen as someone's girlfriend. I want the guy to be seen as her boyfriend. She shouldn't be overshadowed by who she dates, and who she dates shouldn't be central to her character. That's why I think the Trinity should stay out of each other's pants. Let her date Steve (or Orion if you need another superhero).

QFT! An unwritten rule should be, no Trinity-on-Trinity hook ups.

#34 Posted by arcano_19 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

i also think azarello wants wonder woman to be like in a paralel universe la vertigo... i love what both writers are doing to her as well

#35 Posted by The_jackolantern (445 posts) - - Show Bio

I like solo wonder women but I like to think this is early years wonder women(before the 5 years) and Geoff johns wonder wonder is the now wonder women. If they do make a 2nd solo book which I hope they do.i think it should be present day wonder women with Steve and the rest of her supporting cast.nothing to do with azarello's book

#36 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_jackolantern: agreed.

#37 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@cloudzackvincent said:

Azzarello's WW is far better and i would like to point out that his run is still selling better than pre 52 period.

Yes, it's selling better than Hester's run but with all of the chaos during "The Odyssey" storyline, I doubt many are surprised by this. Azzarello is far from the only writer who has pulled in decent numbers on Wonder Woman. Perez, Jimenez, Rucka, Heinburg, and Simone have all done so. Yes, Azzarello's run is selling decent but his one-trick-pony of mythology appears to be wearing away as Wonder Woman ranked the lowest it ever has last month since the New 52 started.

#38 Posted by The_jackolantern (445 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say it's a one trick pony but it does need to speed up the story telling and get the new gods up and running

#39 Posted by Aries2012 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@Power_Guy: You have nailed in writing what I have been seeing and feeling about the current WW, book and characterisation. I skim read the current interpretation at the comics stores as I adore the character & and want to check in with how the character is doing but unfortunately I don't enjoy the writing and artwork sufficiently enough to buy the run. A 2nd superhero action oriented WW book? Depending on the artist, THAT I might buy.

#40 Posted by cloudzackvincent (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

@Power_Guy: it is still selling around 10 k units more than 2011 and around 20k units more than 2010..so while not a grand success, it is far from a failure. and my post was directed to the posts which claims Azzarello's run is selling less than pre new 52. and yes Simone's and Rucka's run sold well too.... but their unit sells are around the same and the detractors of the New 52 WW considers them grand successes, so why should Azzarello's run be considered a failure.

#41 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@cloudzackvincent said:

@Power_Guy: it is still selling around 10 k units more than 2011 and around 20k units more than 2010..so while not a grand success, it is far from a failure. and my post was directed to the posts which claims Azzarello's run is selling less than pre new 52. and yes Simone's and Rucka's run sold well too.... but their unit sells are around the same and the detractors of the New 52 WW considers them grand successes, so why should Azzarello's run be considered a failure.

I don't think it's a failure at all but I don't think it's "Wonder Woman" either. I was merely trying to point out that Azzarello is not the only writer who has pulled in these types of numbers on Wonder Woman.

#42 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that the Wonder Woman title is actually doing pretty well . .. well enough to warrant another title?

#43 Posted by BR_Havoc (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

The new Wonder Woman title in many ways is there answer to Thor and so far I think it works very well for the character. Her reboot was one of the softer ones of the new 52 (not as soft as Batman,GL or Aquaman) so I think BA writers her with much of the same character and morals she had before the reboot. I found it to be an easy book to pick up and felt the changes did not bother me.

Johns writing has confused the hell out of me since the new 52 started I mean he writes almost all the characters he likes as if the reboot never happens.

#44 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@Press Oblivion:

just like marvel,DC doesn't know how to work with females,they don't know what to do with them,because they have lived in a sexist world,ruled by men for too long,they are too limited with their vision of women in comics.

that's why mangas and animes kick their asess in popularity and sales(worldwide),mangas have been able to get more appeal,get a wider audience and females are way more interesting and well done than in comics,even DBZ has a a lot of girl fans,marvel and DC are very unhortodox when it comes to females development,wonder woman's best selling run had hype,but they weren't the best written,and when marvel and DC had a good work in their hands,like ms marvel solo run,or wonder wman perez run,simone run,they didn't know how to take advantage,and they just turned ms marvel into new cap marvel,and wonder woman into zeus daugther(and made her comic almost a ripped off xena).

#45 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@Power_Guy:

honestly,just like marvel,DC doesn't know how to work with females,they don't know what to do with them,because they have lived in a sexist world,ruled by men for too long,they are too limited with their vision of women in comics.

that's why mangas and animes kick their asess in popularity and sales(worldwide),mangas have been able to get more appeal,get a wider audience and females are way more interesting and well done than in comics,even DBZ has a a lot of girl fans,marvel and DC are very unhortodox when it comes to females development,wonder woman's best selling run had hype(40s and 50s she was the first main female with her own comic,original JL member,70s lynda carter show),but they weren't the best written,and when marvel and DC had a good work in their hands,like ms marvel solo run,or wonder wman perez run,simone run,they didn't know how to take advantage,and they just turned ms marvel into new cap marvel,and wonder woman into zeus daugther(and made her comic almost a ripped off xena).

#46 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@BR_Havoc said:

The new Wonder Woman title in many ways is there answer to Thor and so far I think it works very well for the character.

Do you feel that DC needed to answer for Thor? I'm saying this, having never read Thor so please forgive my ignorance.

@gokuwarrior said:

@Press Oblivion:

(and made her comic almost a ripped off xena).

She's not a complete rip off of Xena (as you mentioned), there are elements of her character that are still very much Wonder Woman but I don't like the swords. Her Lasso / Lariat should be her offensive tool of choice that's more indicative of the character. They've made a lot of changes to Superman but he's not carrying around guns.

#47 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@Press Oblivion: wonder woman can have swords it doesn't matter,she has always used them.

the problem is that they don't know how to develop her character without changing her every minute,she is a xena ripped off,it's like xena in a new costume,that uses lasso,tiara and bracelets,instead of whip,chakran and shield,they don't know how to market her properly,so they change her everytime,thinking that it's her problem,but it's not,it's them,that's why they keep failing,because it's not the character,it's them,and their very unorthodox vision of females in comics and outside comics.

#48 Edited by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, she's always used swords but not every minute of every day for every scenario. Everyone knows her for the lasso and that is what I would like to see more of.

#49 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@Press Oblivion: the lasso won't help her from being a flop if her company doesn't do something to develop her right and market her properly,they'll probablty keep changing her until wonder woman=wonder who the hell is she.

#50 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

lol

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