I can't wait until Kal meets the Amazons, I hope they don't try to kill him, lol.

The idea behind Marston's amazons was that it was a continuation of the Greek myths. The next evolution in their story. Hence, they're modernized to have technology and so forth.

Marston's amazons are basically taking the classical amazons and evolving them, so that:

a. They're now superpowered

b. They have high tech gadgets beyond those of mere mortals

c. They are more refined in their character and personalities.

The term you are looking for is 'loosely based on', names are repeated along with a single event, but Marston's Amazons have nearly nothing in common with the mythological Amazons.

@natvin: so why not vote "they are stupid and should be wiped from continuity"? What kind of character would WW be without them though? Part of the reason I started the poll was to see how people like to see Diana, or at least what kind of culture they think she should come from. Not overtly asked, obviously, but it is telling about who she would be based on these opinions.

@dianaxkal: more likely they'll want to set him up as some kind of breeding stud ... Ensure the next generation of Amazons are strong :)

@csg_cl: Nooo! He is Diana's breeding stud! lol :D

@dianaxkal: they'll want such prime meat to share ... Not all the time, but, you know, thrice a century or so

@csg_cl: Well, they will just have to find someone else, he is for Diana's use only

@dianaxkal: maybe she's into it ... One never knows what sexual and relationship dynamics exist with the Amazons. Polyamory doesn't seem like it would present a problem within the culture. Especially the was Azzarello presents them. And come to think of it, Marston was himself a Polygamist so I think he would approve too!

To me it makes a lot of sense that an isolated group of strong independent Greek women would have developed some form of ethical non-monogamy. Especially given that they're more or less immortal. Although I'm still not exactly sure if the New 52 Amazons are immortal or not.

STOOOP! It may not be a problem for the other Amazons, but Diana is not sharing her Kal!

And not that he'd get a say in the matter, but I don't think he would want to be shared, he is loyal to his perfect and beautiful owner :)

@dianaxkal: LOL ... Then he'll happily do as his mistress wishes and play "stud" ... Okay, that's all I've got ;)

@muffin_sangria: they seem to be, as Hessia talks about aging after she left the Island. What does "ethical non-monogamy" mean? Is that something different than polygamy? I agree that some form of polygamy seems likely with a small population of immortal women ... Especially since they clearly raise children in some sort of communal society.

@csg_cl: Ethical non-monogamy is more or less the same thing as polyamoury. I think the term may have been coined by second wave feminist but I'm not sure. The terminology isn't really important, and the Amazons might not even feel they need a word for it. With being immortal it seems impractical for them to stay with one partner their entire life, and I could see a lot of swapping and sharing of partners over time. It's possible the Amazons might also see the social construct of monogamy to be an invention of the patriarchy used to control women.

Of course not all Amazons would be attracted to other ladies. I think they would still form some pseudo romantic bonds though. And of course with Azzarello's version they go on their regular sexcapades with sailors.

@muffin_sangria: sounds like something they would coin, or something Gwyneth Paltrow would spew, why do people feel the need to complicate simple concepts, and make moral judgements on lifestyles not their own. Referring to it as "ethical non-monogamy" makes the assumption that polygamy is inherently unethical. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure I was following your point so thanks for the clarification.

I'm not sure I'd call 3x a century "regular" and I got the impression the whole thing was considered a necessity not a craving ... It may be horrid, but it serves larger societal purposes ... Procreation and secrecy. Sexual orientation means little in such circumstances.

But I agree it seems highly unlikely all Amazons would be only attracted to women, but in the absence of societal stigmas around homosexuality it probably means very little to individuals and casual sexual interaction could easily be common place.

@csg_cl: Second Wave feminism had it's issues, and in fact their version of Ethical non-monogamy was heavily associated with political lesbianism which itself was kinda a messed up stance. I don't have too much of a problem with the Amazons being associated with stuff like that because it leaves room for Diana to come in with more intersectional and egalitarian views. Of course they should be careful not to make the Amazons into too much of straw feminists either.

@muffin_sangria: as much as I've never liked their single mindedness I have to admire that they managed to accomplish a lot in a short time ... The Amazons IMO should ride the line between xenophobic and hard line feminists, but ultimately shouldn't cross over into man-hate. I've said this before, but it seems impossible that there can be an idealized female in the total absence of male.

@csg_cl: I do think they should focus on them being more xenophobic then misandrous. Also on an unrelated note I want Space Amazons.

@muffin_sangria: one would think in all the vastness of the multiverse there would be either a spacefaring version of Earth Amazons or an alien species of Amazons ... I could totally enjoy that!

@csg_cl: Well there was the Sky Riders of Nebulosa in the Golden Age comics. The tried to invade Paradise Island from space and called themselves Amazons. It's not really clear if they were connected to the Amazons is some way or just called themselves that because they were also a tribe of female warriors. It's also not totally clear if they were humans or aliens. I like to think that they were a lost tribe though that somehow ended up exploring space.

I like the idea of exploring the Amazons of different Earths though. I've got a theory that the Amazons of each Earth are actually connected to a different Pantheon. Earth one Amazons are connected to the Greek Gods, Earth two Amazons are connected to the Roman Gods. I think it could continue on were some Amazons might be connected to the Norse gods, and other might be connected to the Hindu gods, Egyptian gods, Mayan gods, or whatever. I think it could be interesting although I'm uncertain if its been contradicted by anything in the New 52 yet.

You already have that, they are called Zamarons and they run (or ran, I think they are dead atm) the Star Sapphires.

And in the pre-New 52, Simone (I think) invented a sister to Hippolyta who was given to a space-faring collective of barbarians that were also all-female.

@outside_85: should have been more specific ... I'd like the N52 to explore in the new continuity

@outside_85 said:

@csg_cl said:

@muffin_sangria: one would think in all the vastness of the multiverse there would be either a spacefaring version of Earth Amazons or an alien species of Amazons ... I could totally enjoy that!

You already have that, they are called Zamarons and they run (or ran, I think they are dead atm) the Star Sapphires.

And in the pre-New 52, Simone (I think) invented a sister to Hippolyta who was given to a space-faring collective of barbarians that were also all-female.

I'd be happy to see the Zamarons back to, but I'd consider them something entirely separate from the Amazons even if they were more or less inspired by them. Although I need to look up the thing with Hippolyta's sister. I though there was something post crisis but I forgot what it was. I'd like to see them back in the New 52. Maybe fuse them with the Sky Riders of Nebulosa.

@muffin_sangria said:

@outside_85 said:

@csg_cl said:

@muffin_sangria: one would think in all the vastness of the multiverse there would be either a spacefaring version of Earth Amazons or an alien species of Amazons ... I could totally enjoy that!

You already have that, they are called Zamarons and they run (or ran, I think they are dead atm) the Star Sapphires.

And in the pre-New 52, Simone (I think) invented a sister to Hippolyta who was given to a space-faring collective of barbarians that were also all-female.

I'd be happy to see the Zamarons back to, but I'd consider them something entirely separate from the Amazons even if they were more or less inspired by them. Although I need to look up the thing with Hippolyta's sister. I though there was something post crisis but I forgot what it was. I'd like to see them back in the New 52. Maybe fuse them with the Sky Riders of Nebulosa.

Antiope's space Amazon's ... I remember that too ... would have to go back and re-read the issues though

No, NOT "loosely based on". I did not say Marston's amazons have in common with the classical ones, OBVIOUSLY. I was saying that the idea with all their tech and exodus to Paradise Island was that he was continuing the amazon legend in HIS take. Just like shakespear, or ovid, or homer, or whoever, had their own takes on the amazon legend. Well, Marston had his own. But it was a modernized take.

CSG:

the amazons should stay. BUT, it shouldn't matter what kind of people Diana came from, because the idea is that she's special. She's more loving that all of them, regardless of who she grew up with.

@natvin: but doesn't the culture she comes from dictate who she is on many levels?

Oh definitely. that's why the Azzarello version is so...well...short. BUT, the point is that whatever kind of culture she's from, she somehow finds a way to become the loving & humane WW that we know. Everything else is variable based on who/what culture she grew up around.

I think Azzarello's shown that in a much more in your face way. His Amazon's are down right nasty at times so seeing Diana become loving and humane in SPITE of her background really stands out ... and she's influencing them too! Johns and Soule not as much ... they both show a much less compassionate character than Azzarello.

Diana has a pretty unfortunate relationship with big events, War of the Gods is barely remembered (did it even have any lasting impact at all?) and Genesis is something most people would rather forget (only lasting effect is Highfathers' death).

I would like Diana to have another shot at headlining a big event, but I'd prefer it written by someone who can actually write events.

@outside_85: yeah, it's unfortunate ... Maybe someday someone worth reading will do one!

@csg_cl: one can only hope! Sadly Amazon's Attack! could have been awesome if it had been managed well, but they took it too far and destroyed the whole concept :(

Speaking of compassionate, human female heroes...Did you know that today (or maybe yesterday) was National Marshmallow Day?!!!!

And Veronica Mars is known as a marshmallow, although she'd rather not admit it!

"A long time ago...we used to be friends, but I......."

@natvin: actually we were supposed to be talking about Amazons...

But it was friggin Marshmallow Day! So I just had to mention it!

Have you had a smores today?

@natvin: I despise marshmallows actually.

You're really sounding like a sexist pr___k right now. Why can't they be scientists, because they have ovaries?

I'm not joking. I've read the thread and stand by my original statement. The Amazons had superior technology because they could see the advancements in Man's World's past and future and adapt and improve on them. Athena's Magic Sphere provided the window.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Sphere

Therefore Amazon magic led to Amazon science, it made perfect sense. Marston had all his bases covered, the same can't be said for Azzarello. His backwards barbarians are asinine. They didn't even have enough foresight to try to improve upon their culture by investigating the modern tech found on the ships they sex pirated. It was all about procreation and murder for them. They're so stupid, in spite of having seen advanced weaponry, they're still asking Hephaestus for swords and shields, when he could provide them with almost anything.

So basically you're back to saying they can't have tech because they're women and therefore idiots. You may not be saying it directly, but that's the implication.

It's funny to me how some guys can accept the talking monkeys in Gorilla City having advanced technology, but they can't possibly imagine women that know how to build anything mechanical, even with the help of magic and three thousand years of practice.

No, what he is saying is that observation can only take you so far as if you don't understand the physics behind it.

Like you are likely still unable to actually build a plane even if you got a tour or four of a factory that makes them, that is what the Amazons could get out of that magic sphere.

Why wouldn't they understand physics? The Greeks invented the concept. If you had a scientific mind, knowledge of future spacecraft and how they were created, plus a window to watch the Wright brothers make their blueprints, test their theories and the time and materials to build replicas, yes you could build a plane.

If Orville and Wilbur could do it in 30 years, Paula and Phillipus could do it in a thousand.

The Greek's invented basic physics that every kid in school learns about, if you went back in time with the schematics of a modern plane and showed it to Pythagoras he wouldn't know which side was up or down in it. Also you are assuming the Amazons actually know when to watch who and know in advance that the idea is actually going to be of use one day, not to mention they'd have to be watching nearly constantly in order to have all the stuff you needed to actually make such a thing.

Orwill and Wilbur had a back-catalog of inventions and studies that spanned hundreds of years. Paula probably could, but that's because she's not originally an Amazon, not sure what you want Philipus for in this case? Also, you have to ask yourself, why would the Amazons actually build a plane when they never leave the island?

Dude it's a comic, nobody question half the impossible things Batman can do as a human. So give it a rest for heaven's sake.

You are one angry Batman fanboy!

Nope, the Greeks were taught everything they knew by the Egyptians. They even make reference to it in their poetry. Greece was NOT the start of world civilisation but of WESTERN civilisation.

ITHAKA

As you set out for Ithaka

hope the voyage is a long one,

full of adventure, full of discovery.

Laistrygonians and Cyclops,

angry Poseidon—don’t be afraid of them:

you’ll never find things like that on your way

as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,

as long as a rare excitement

stirs your spirit and your body.

Laistrygonians and Cyclops,

wild Poseidon—you won’t encounter them

unless you bring them along inside your soul,

unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

Hope the voyage is a long one.

May there be many a summer morning when,

with what pleasure, what joy,

you come into harbors seen for the first time;

may you stop at Phoenician trading stations

to buy fine things,

mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,

sensual perfume of every kind—

as many sensual perfumes as you can;

and may you visit many Egyptian cities

to gather stores of knowledge from their scholars.

Keep Ithaka always in your mind.

Arriving there is what you are destined for.

But do not hurry the journey at all.

Better if it lasts for years,

so you are old by the time you reach the island,

wealthy with all you have gained on the way,

not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.

Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.

Without her you would not have set out.

She has nothing left to give you now.

And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you.

Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,

you will have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.