@archizoom: No shame in her game, she's an idealistic hero, no need to change that. But I still don't see how she's playing second string to Superman. If anything, Superman is playing second string to her.

Bump that, I've waited all my life for Superman and Wonder Woman to get together, since Byrne and Perez first teased us with it 25 years ago. I feel like they belong with each other, at least temporarily.

@superguy1591: yeah no need to change the status quo because every story's lopsided in favor of Superman. How's Superman playing second fiddle to Wonder Woman, can you explain that to me please

@toplel: ya Lobo is not whiter than white which is why I would like to see them together. I would very much rather read about Wonder Woman's relationship with a mercenary and all the drama that that entails than read about Diana's relationship with another remarkably good looking hero and all the petty little problems of the beautiful people.

..Lobo seems a bit too badass for Diana. Perhaps the Wonder Woman from the JMS WW books might have been tempted!

Superman is the better match, as they both have a very strong moral compass, super-powers etc, but even as someone who has enjoyed the comic to date, I find the scenes with them together a bit nauseating!

@archizoom: Keep in mind that in the N52, Azz has Diana locked away and in a 30 issue long story with only Apollo as the bad(And the first born).

He was told by DC that he wouldnt be dusturb and free to tell his own tale or they risk another Mark Waid.

Soule only has Superman villains to work with until Azz lifts the embargo.We've been over this, Superman is the unsure one, Superman is the one who got the "That's nice" line when he said he loved her, Superman is the one taking the most beatings and Diana is the one shown as the more powerful of the two. The only "argument" you have is that Superman flew Diana away even though he had regained some power--thanks to Diana--and she was mortally wounded by the ghosts and that Superman wraped her in his cape

I think that's part of the problem you guys have with the relationship, nerds are suspicious of pretty people and assume whatever problems they have are inherently superficial or uninteresting. That's just not true.

This...is a very interesting generalization

This was a great read. I feel Superman/Wonder Woman is the only consistently fantastic New 52 book, all the rest have plummeted in quality every now and then.

Also, comparing this to Unchained, as someone did, is totally unfair, since Unchained is such absolute garbage.

@superguy1591: Doomsday was about to trash (≠defeat) Wonder Woman until Superman saved her. As far as I know Doomsday never broke Superman's arms with one single punch. That scene served no better purpose than have Wonder Woman make a demonstration of weakness, strategically followed by Superman's demonstration of strength. Those scenes were deliberately designed a la Charles Soule to introduce Superman as this ubermasculine protective male. Superman fought the strongest foe and tanked the explosion which she would've died from hadn't Superman saved her cute little butt again. She seems unsure about this relationship as well, she always seeks advice from Hessia and according to Batman she's a conceited little bitch.

@archizoom: Doomsday thrashed her and every member of the Justice League in his first appearance in comics too, Doomsday killed Superman. He's not a cakewalk, he's one of the toughest characters in comics. And if I remember correctly, Doomsday knocked Superman out too just a few panels before.

I don't know how many times I've said this, but Wonder Woman isn't Superman's equal. Her endurance, strength and speed aren't comparable to Superman. It never has been comparable, this isn't Charles Soule's doing. Superman > Wonder Woman in all areas besides agility and reaction speed.

Superman is unsure because he's being portrayed as a character who can't decide who he loves more, Diana is unsure because she views Superman as too weak willed. One is better than the other...

As far as Batman, did he say that in BM/WW 30? Because I don't read his books.

Thanks, I was paraphrasing Rob Lowe and as a nerd and a pretty person I concur. :)

@superguy1591 said:

Yeah that doesn't sit right with me at all, actually it drives me nuts. He's the strongest male and she's the strongest female yet Wonder Woman's just a pale shade of Superman. What's that supposed to mean. That strikes me as male-supremacist bullshit pretty much. The reason Wonder Woman hasn't always been portrayed as Superman's equal is because DC's creative personnel, that consists mostly of men, are obviously unwilling to do that.

@archizoom: Men and women are different, they're not the same. We've been over this, Superman's might comes from his powers (super strength, endurance, speed) and Wonder Woman's might comes from her fighting ability, magic items.

Wonder Woman doesn't need to be on Superman's level (feats wise) to be on Superman's level, that's what makes her a badass character. She won't ever beat Superman in an arm wrestling match or a race, but she'll use her combat ability to hold him off in a fight and her magically weapons to inflict damage.

Not every character has to be a Class A worldbreaker like Superman, especially not in the Justice League. If Wonder Woman and Superman had the same stats, Superman would be worthless because Wonder Woman would be the better hero. If Wonder Woman could lift as much as Superman, move as fast as he can and endure as much physical damage as he can, what do we need Superman? He has one thing going for him, his powers, if you take it away from him he's just Normal-Man.

Yeah but technically he's not a man and she's not a woman. Men are stronger than women in the human species but 1- they aren't human 2- they belong to different species. He's an alien, she's a goddess.

Having magic weapons is not a power, it's a resource. She's very well equipped with instruments of death that she has no use for because the Justice League has a broke ass no killing policy. And with all her skills and all her weapons Wonder Woman can only hope to "hold Superman off" and If for a reason she ain't carrying weapons, Superman will just obliterate her ass in a bat of an eyelash basically.

quote - "Superman would be worthless because Wonder Woman would be the better hero" - unquote. is Wonder Woman worthless because he's the better hero?

Besides being stronger, smarter, quicker and more durable than Wonder Woman, Superman's also got a paraphernalia of extremely useful superpowers that she doesn't have such as heat vision, cold breathe, x-ray vision, Super fucking hearing and I don't know what else.

That wasn't a compliment. It's interesting because it's something I've never heard before. I don't agree with the assessment.

@archizoom: Technically, you're right, but the point of making them different strength is to paint how men and women are different. Diana may not be as strong as Superman, but she's his equal. Having magical weapons may not be a power, but it is a resource that many do not have...including Superman.

As far as the no-kill policy, I feel like you need to read Batman: Under the Red Hood to understand that killing isn't what makes you effective. Superman's heat vision, icy breath can kill too, but no one complains about it. Superman hasn't EVER beaten Wonder Woman before I say obliterate her. And when I said Superman would be worthless with Diana being his equal in feats, I meant that Diana has more than superpowers to her advantage. She already owns Superman now and they're not equals in terms of strength, speed and endurance, make them equals and she runs toys with him like how Faora toyed with Superman in Man of Steel.

You just don't seem to get what makes Wonder Woman special, she's not female Superman, she's Wonder Woman. She's a badass Amazon in her own regards.

if you honestly believe lobo would be a better fit, i'd have to question if you actually grasp what ww is about. how would her being with a character who is a parody of sexist undertones be in anyway in improvement over supes is beyond me.

@kidstandout: Sure, she's Themyscira's ambassadress for Peace, she's Jesus Christ in a bathing suit, in a nutshell, but violent. She's not as profound as you paint her out to be. People don't choose who they fall in love with, at least I don't. Good women date total consummate douchebags. I remember saying this would be a dysfunctional relationship so obviously I'm aware of the incompatibility between their personalities. That's what I find interesting actually. She can always talk Lobo into being a better man, at least that'd give us something to read.

yeah... you don't get ww lol.

LOL lobo dating Wondy, that's like Deadpool dating Kitty Pryde and being sane enough to abandon mercenary work. Oh and while Superman and Wonder Woman have some static ass chemistry in this issue and others, at least this couple functions as peers instead of beneficial doormats to humans that think they can tame god like beings with their mood swings, looking at Lois Lame and Steve Terrible.

I think this couple needs scenes out side their superhero identities and basically talk casual stuff even though their different cultures, it could work and Diana would be totally be the greatest girlfriend to get clark to do mischievous stuff. It be like a Kyon and Haruhi dynamic.

@kidstandout: To quote Jimenez - "One of the great things about that character, I think, are the expansive ways one can interpret her. It's built into the DNA of the character" -

The jokes are on you sister

there is a fine line between interpretation and fanfiction, this loboxwondy business is the later. feel free to indulge but don't expect people to agree with crack shipping with little to no basis on the pairing. pairing a feminist icon such as ww with a bad boy parody from the 80's like lobo would be disastrous. to do so suggests you don't really understand the character.

good day

@kidstandout: yeah, you made a mountain out of a molehill, I just kind of tossed around an idea. Pairing them would have disastrous results because it doesn't conform to your traditionalist views of what Wonder Woman should be ie. the avatar of perfection, towering above humanity. She doesn't wrong, she doesn't lie, she's only second to Jesus Christ. For all her kindness and good heartedness, she obviously hasn't taught you anything lol

have you even read a ww comic pre 52? i dont even...

@kidstandout: No you don't and there lies the problem. You spill a lot of ad hominem but I don't see you back your insults with something other than more insults...

@archizoom:

so i take it you haven't? maybe you should if you think ww has always been depicted as perfect. nuff said

@kidstandout: How can nothing ever be enough. I read Jimenez's, Rucka's and Simone's run. Killing Maxwell Lord to save her super friend hardly qualifies, she did it for the sake of all. This is where you elaborate a list or shut your dirty mouth.

perfect implies she is incapable of making mistakes, which is clearly not true when you know that she tricked her mom by competing in the tournament to escort steve back to the us against her mothers wishes with a disguise in the golden age . i don't have to do shit bro, your the one spouting off the mouth with fanfic bullshit in the name of going against a non existent trope of ww being a female jesus who kills. never mind that this description is a complete contradiction that makes no sense, to use this as some sort of justification for crack shipping is laughable. i'll take better stories over crack shipping to make things "interesting" anyday.

@kidstandout: she disobeyed her mother to claim her freedom, what a sinner. Also Comic Vine has a no swearing policy so cross your fingers that @saren won't see this obscenity lol

@kidstandout: @archizoom: : Cool it, both of you. Also, no swearing.

disobeying your parents and deceit are sins, so is murder. so yeah, female jesus she is not.

@kidstandout: obviously you're unfamiliar with metaphors

@archizoom:

or maybe you don't know how to make one with apples and oranges.