Something I realized about Wonder Woman's change.

#1 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

The Universe pretty much didn't change. Seriously, how many times have we seen "What if Superman never showed up?" "Batman missing!" kind of storylines where the world has gone to hell. And yet, Wonder Woman disappears, effectively not actually being part of the greater hero community anymore. How can we even consider her part of the Trinity? She just got shown having 0 influence.

#2 Posted by davidkenneth (443 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar:
Not really because if she didn't exist characters like Wonder Girl and Donna Troy also wouldn't. And she still is apart of the Superhero community people just can't remember her much like Maxwell Lord btut not so evil.
#3 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio
@davidkenneth said:
" @TheCrowbar: Not really because if she didn't exist characters like Wonder Girl and Donna Troy also wouldn't. And she still is apart of the Superhero community people just can't remember her much like Maxwell Lord btut not so evil. "
Didn't time get changed? Wasn't that the vehicle of her retcon?
#4 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar said:
" @davidkenneth said:
" @TheCrowbar: Not really because if she didn't exist characters like Wonder Girl and Donna Troy also wouldn't. And she still is apart of the Superhero community people just can't remember her much like Maxwell Lord btut not so evil. "
Didn't time get changed? Wasn't that the vehicle of her retcon? "
Wonder Woman's retcon is an origin story it takes place when she is about 19 years old. The arc is a self contained one and she has not met any other superhero's yet. Anything happening outside her book is not offical to her current story arc.
#5 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand her appearance in the last Superman then. That's happening 'now'

#6 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar said:

" I don't understand her appearance in the last Superman then. That's happening 'now' "

Consider it a bogus appearance unless Phil Hester, the person currently writing Wonder Woman story arc decides to re-con it. Any appearance of Wonder Woman in the current time line should be of her having already resolved her story ARC.... and obviously that was not the case in Superman 708 so its bogus.
#7 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:
" @TheCrowbar said:

" I don't understand her appearance in the last Superman then. That's happening 'now' "

Consider it a bogus appearance unless Phil Hester, the person currently writing Wonder Woman story arc decides to re-con it. Any appearance of Wonder Woman in the current time line should be of her having already resolved her story ARC.... and obviously that was not the case in Superman 708 so its bogus. "
That makes no sense to me, but I wish such an action from a comic publisher was new.
#8 Posted by iLLituracy (13537 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounds like a mess.

#9 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio
@iLLituracy said:
" Sounds like a mess. "
I'm more or less just going by WDW's word, because the alternative is that Wonder Woman was part of the Trinity just because she was a woman with a powerset and origin outside Batman and Superman.
#10 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar said:

" @WDW said:

" @TheCrowbar said:

" I don't understand her appearance in the last Superman then. That's happening 'now' "

Consider it a bogus appearance unless Phil Hester, the person currently writing Wonder Woman story arc decides to re-con it. Any appearance of Wonder Woman in the current time line should be of her having already resolved her story ARC.... and obviously that was not the case in Superman 708 so its bogus. "
That makes no sense to me, but I wish such an action from a comic publisher was new. "
The only way you are going to understand how out of place Wonder Woman showing up in Superman 708 is, is  to read Wonder woman #600 to #606 Not surprised you don't understand because it should not have happened lol.

#11 Posted by davidkenneth (443 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar:
I think it changed for her not for everyone else.
#12 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio
@davidkenneth said:
" @TheCrowbar: I think it changed for her not for everyone else. "
But the fact that they can do that and have such little effect. And there are changes for everyone else, Superman doesn't know who she is.
#13 Posted by Sydpart2 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

I must admit a lot of confusion as to the place of her current arc taken in context with the rest of the DCU...everything I've seen with her to this point outside of her own book has her with the old costume...if it were me I'd just suddenly have her remember everything going on now while in the old costume, kind of suddenly have all the memories hit her at once...idk, that makes more sense in my head. If you don't believe me go into my head then come back out and tell me it doesn't

#14 Posted by danhimself (22553 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:
" @TheCrowbar said:
" @davidkenneth said:
" @TheCrowbar: Not really because if she didn't exist characters like Wonder Girl and Donna Troy also wouldn't. And she still is apart of the Superhero community people just can't remember her much like Maxwell Lord btut not so evil. "
Didn't time get changed? Wasn't that the vehicle of her retcon? "
Wonder Woman's retcon is an origin story it takes place when she is about 19 years old. The arc is a self contained one and she has not met any other superhero's yet. Anything happening outside her book is not offical to her current story arc. "
that's not right at all....it's been acknowledged in Superman and Flash....her story arc IS affecting the rest of the DC Universe
#15 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

Acknowledge is something for Booster Gold and minor heroes. WW is a member of the trinity supposedly the three most influential people in DCU, and all she gets is a "Hey you look familiar"?

#16 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:

" @WDW said:

" @TheCrowbar said:
" @davidkenneth said:
" @TheCrowbar: Not really because if she didn't exist characters like Wonder Girl and Donna Troy also wouldn't. And she still is apart of the Superhero community people just can't remember her much like Maxwell Lord btut not so evil. "
Didn't time get changed? Wasn't that the vehicle of her retcon? "
Wonder Woman's retcon is an origin story it takes place when she is about 19 years old. The arc is a self contained one and she has not met any other superhero's yet. Anything happening outside her book is not offical to her current story arc. "
that's not right at all....it's been acknowledged in Superman and Flash....her story arc IS affecting the rest of the DC Universe "

 

According to Phil Hester, the way the current story arc for Wonder Woman is being written is as I said. It's A self contained story about how she became Wonder Woman. Yes the timeline was changed but according to Phil the story is supposed to be taking place when Diana was like 20 years old. Since JMS left Superman and Wonder Woman abruptly I am thinking the other writers are a bit confused about what is going on and are just taking liberties with Wonder Woman without regard to her current story arc.
 
An example is when she just showed up in Superman 708.Continuity wise, If you are reading Wonder Woman 600 - 606 you will see there is no place in her current story for meeting Superman. It's pretty much and impossibility since she only began to fly, (while in Turkey) at the very end of 604 and arrives at home in New York directly from Turkey and does not leave New York again. No reason is given for her being in Nebraska at all.  Also the dialog did not make sense in Superman 708 since she was already doing hero stuff since she was 8 years old based on her current story arc. As I said, liberties are being taken by other writers who really don't understand the situation that is supposed to be going on with Wonder Woman. I blame JMS and DC comics for that.
 
Her showing up in Flash does not change anything because it could have been referring to any point during the altered time stream.

 

Phil Hester has stated for the record that he is not writing Wonder Woman with Flashpoint or JLA Generations lost in mind and that Wonder Woman is self contained origin story of sorts.

 

I guess once we finish Wonder Woman 612 we will finally know what truly happened.

#17 Edited by antiterra (168 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:

" According to Phil Hester, the way the current story arc for Wonder Woman is being written is as I said. It's A self contained story about how she became Wonder Woman. Yes the timeline was changed but according to Phil the story is supposed to be taking place when Diana was like 20 years old. Since JMS left Superman and Wonder Woman abruptly I am thinking the other writers are a bit confused about what is going on and are just taking liberties with Wonder Woman without regard to her current story arc.
 
An example is when she just showed up in Superman 708.Continuity wise, If you are reading Wonder Woman 600 - 606 you will see there is no place in her current story for meeting Superman. It's pretty much and impossibility since she only began to fly, (while in Turkey) at the very end of 604 and arrives at home in New York directly from Turkey and does not leave New York again. No reason is given for her being in Nebraska at all.  Also the dialog did not make sense in Superman 708 since she was already doing hero stuff since she was 8 years old based on her current story arc. As I said, liberties are being taken by other writers who really don't understand the situation that is supposed to be going on with Wonder Woman. I blame JMS and DC comics for that.
 
Her showing up in Flash does not change anything because it could have been referring to any point during the altered time stream.

 

Phil Hester has stated for the record that he is not writing Wonder Woman with Flashpoint or JLA Generations lost in mind and that Wonder Woman is self contained origin story of sorts.

 

I guess once we finish Wonder Woman 612 we will finally know what truly happened.

"

I can't thank you enough for explaining all that. I've been scratching my head for months as to how I'm supposed to take the current Wonder Woman, struggling to put it in any kind of context. I'm sticking with it out of loyalty to WW, but I can't say I'm enjoying it very much (not even as a Superman Earth One-type story). Your explanations make things a little clearer and make me hopefuly that I'll be able to just ignore this run altogether once the noble, smart, strong and determined Diana that I love comes back. :) 

On topic, while it's true that the DCU hasn't changed much without WW, I wouldn't read too much into it. Honestly, I think that DC's other writers might have been just as puzzled as the readers and had no idea where the heck JMS was headed, so they just opted not to mention WW until they knew what was going on.

Anyway, mostly I wanted to say thanks for giving me a healthy and less head-scratchy way to frame the current run.

#18 Edited by Celineness (134 posts) - - Show Bio

An alternate explanation could be that the "JMS Superman" and "JMS Wonder Woman" occupy the same nonsensical alternate universe, so are able to interact just fine. Maybe DC is piling all the stupid JMS mess into a large black bag so they can toss the whole thing out into the trash in one go?
 
I see the bit in Superman 708 as dragging Supes into the crazy "please let this end soon" elseworld of "not-wonder woman", rather than her featuring in the world Supes supposedly occupies :)

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