Simone or Azzarello?

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#1 Posted by Bezza (3513 posts) - - Show Bio

, so come on then, as Azzarello's run finishes and Simone had one of the best WW runs in recent times prior to that, which one did you prefer? I have to declare an interest here, I have bought two TP simone books recently and absolutely love her take on the character...plenty of greek mythology stuff (which Azzarello built on) but also lots of action and WW feats. Fights with Power girl and Green Lantern Kaa are particularly epic. Azzarello's books are also some of the most engaging of recent times. So who do you prefer?

#2 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

Simone's, by a long shot. I personally believe Azzarello's run would've failed miserably if it weren't for Chiang, whereas Simone's was sensational with art that was comme ci comme ça. Simone+Chiang=winning combo. Simone gave us my favorite WW villain thus far besides the Cheetah - Genocide, although I think the First Born is also really awesome.

#3 Posted by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

Azzarello, a better, more consistent story that's actually doing something other than maintaining a status quo (which I have to add remains to be seen if it endures beyond his pages).

It's helped that Azzarello only appears to have been denied when wishing to pair Diana and Orion. And it hasn't been riddled with the inconsistencies Simone either committed herself (like the killing of Ares), or those of others (the bungee-rope of Cheetah's power level). As for stories... well, I have to say I favor these longer ventures over the 4-parters most of the pre-FP landscape offered.

#4 Posted by iaconpoint (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm trying to keep my opinion that Simone is the most overrated writer in comics in check here, but I still have to go with Azzarello. He has rewritten the book on WW and treaded ground no other ever has. Simone's stories were actually good, but no where near Azz's.

And I discount Chiang being the shining light of the series. The dude has never done more than 3 issues in a row without taking at least 2 issues off. Hardly the main factor for its success.

And Simone is still the most overrated writer in comics.

#5 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

As for stories... well, I have to say I favor these longer ventures over the 4-parters most of the pre-FP landscape offered.


So do I but the pace of his is off-puttingly slow and that's because the dialogues are very very short. The story's not much, it's fun, palatable but no stroke of genius. It's a cute little story that could've come out of anyone's imagination.

#6 Posted by Billy Batson (57943 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

As for stories... well, I have to say I favor these longer ventures over the 4-parters most of the pre-FP landscape offered.

So do I but the pace of his is off-puttingly slow and that's because the dialogues are very very short. The story's not much, it's fun, palatable but no stroke of genius. It's a cute little story that could've come out of anyone's imagination.

Then why did it before Azzarello?
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#7 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33001 posts) - - Show Bio

Azz told a great story not just a great superhero story

#8 Posted by Dernman (14958 posts) - - Show Bio

Simone's run was inconsistent from story to story. Example being the story involving Alkyone was interesting but the one involving Genocide was just horrible. Azzarello while I do have some issues with it it's pretty much been steady, good even if some could say a bit long and drawn out which is just a matter of taste.

#9 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

Then why did it before Azzarello?
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Because they were more ambitious, I presume.

#10 Posted by Billy Batson (57943 posts) - - Show Bio

@billy_batson said:

Then why did it before Azzarello?
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Because they were more ambitious, I presume.

Yeah...very...

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#11 Edited by r2datu (638 posts) - - Show Bio

Simone is better though not without her flaws. Her characterisation of Wonder Woman was great, as were some of the villains she created, but I thought Genocide was just the most cliched and boring villain that I cringed every time she was on panel. For god's sake, she looked like she was ripped from a 90s Rob Liefeld Image comic with the leopard print and the spikes everywhere. Her dialogue as well was just cringe worthy, I mean, she was running around screaming "I HATE WOMEN, I HATE MEN, I HATE EVERYONE." I mean, come on Simone. We get it. The character is evil. She was the Wonder Woman equivalent of Doomsday. Powerful character, but generic and about as interesting as a pile of bricks. Good idea, but the execution was way off in my opinion.

Despite it's flaws, it's still my third favorite WW run of all time.

#12 Edited by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

@r2datu said:

Simone is better though not without her flaws. Her characterisation of Wonder Woman was great, as were some of the villains she created, but I thought Genocide was just the most cliched and boring villain that I cringed every time she was on panel. For god's sake, she looked like she was ripped from a 90s Rob Liefeld Image comic with the leopard print and the spikes everywhere. Her dialogue as well was just cringe worthy, I mean, she was running around screaming "I HATE WOMEN, I HATE MEN, I HATE EVERYONE." I mean, come on Simone. We get it. The character is evil. She was the Wonder Woman equivalent of Doomsday. Powerful character, but generic and about as interesting as a pile of bricks. Good idea, but the execution was way off in my opinion.

Despite it's flaws, it's still my third favorite WW run of all time.

Well I liked Genocide because I thought for once Wonder Woman had been given a properly gruesome, powerful foe and not just another female villain who's terribly jealous of Diana because she's well-loved and pretty. Since we're talking originality here, I don't find anything original about the First Born either. He's a powerful God seeking to seize the throne that he believes is his birthright. I think Chiang gave him an amazing look that totally sold the character.

#13 Posted by r2datu (638 posts) - - Show Bio

@r2datu said:

Simone is better though not without her flaws. Her characterisation of Wonder Woman was great, as were some of the villains she created, but I thought Genocide was just the most cliched and boring villain that I cringed every time she was on panel. For god's sake, she looked like she was ripped from a 90s Rob Liefeld Image comic with the leopard print and the spikes everywhere. Her dialogue as well was just cringe worthy, I mean, she was running around screaming "I HATE WOMEN, I HATE MEN, I HATE EVERYONE." I mean, come on Simone. We get it. The character is evil. She was the Wonder Woman equivalent of Doomsday. Powerful character, but generic and about as interesting as a pile of bricks. Good idea, but the execution was way off in my opinion.

Despite it's flaws, it's still my third favorite WW run of all time.

Well I liked Genocide because I thought for once Wonder Woman had been given a properly gruesome, powerful foe and not just another female villain who's terribly jealous of Diana because she's well-loved and pretty. Since we're talking originality here, I don't find anything original about the First Born either. He's a powerful God seeking to seize the throne that he believes is his birthright. I think Chiang gave him an amazing look that totally sold the character.

Oh yeah, I definitely can see her appeal!

I just found that she reminded me way too much of 90s grimdark. I have the same problem with first Born too. Both are very one note characters with rather bland designs (First Born's is one of the only Chiang designs that I find very generic and unappealing. He's literally just a big guy). I think Apollo was the more interesting villain to come out of this run.

#14 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

@r2datu said:

Oh yeah, I definitely can see her appeal!

I just found that she reminded me way too much of 90s grimdark. I have the same problem with first Born too. Both are very one note characters with rather bland designs (First Born's is one of the only Chiang designs that I find very generic and unappealing. He's literally just a big guy). I think Apollo was the more interesting villain to come out of this run.

The First Born is a big guy and that's what I like about him, he's male and not driven by jealousy. Right now that's good enough for me. There's nothing wrong with just a big powerful foe. Every powerful superhero needs a few of those. I think Circe and the Cheetah are for more clichéd. The Great Evil Witch and the Beast who are irredeemably obsessed with the well-loved beautiful princess and Apollo is no never-before-seen villain either.

#15 Posted by Muffin_Sangria (584 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

As for stories... well, I have to say I favor these longer ventures over the 4-parters most of the pre-FP landscape offered.

So do I but the pace of his is off-puttingly slow and that's because the dialogues are very very short. The story's not much, it's fun, palatable but no stroke of genius. It's a cute little story that could've come out of anyone's imagination.

Yeah the pacing is very off. I think I prefer a run to have the 4-parters and an overarching story, but if Azz was going to do one continuous story I think it would have come off much better if he had streamlined it and finished it off in two years instead of three.

I can't really speak too much for Simone. I read a couple of her trades but it was over a weekend where I read like 20 other WW trades so I can't quite separate them.

#16 Posted by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizoom said:
@outside_85 said:

As for stories... well, I have to say I favor these longer ventures over the 4-parters most of the pre-FP landscape offered.

So do I but the pace of his is off-puttingly slow and that's because the dialogues are very very short. The story's not much, it's fun, palatable but no stroke of genius. It's a cute little story that could've come out of anyone's imagination.

Yeah the pacing is very off. I think I prefer a run to have the 4-parters and an overarching story, but if Azz was going to do one continuous story I think it would have come off much better if he had streamlined it and finished it off in two years instead of three.

I would think it would come out as rushed and unfinished if the story was compressed, since I cant remember a single issue where nothing important happened.

#17 Posted by r2datu (638 posts) - - Show Bio

@r2datu said:

Oh yeah, I definitely can see her appeal!

I just found that she reminded me way too much of 90s grimdark. I have the same problem with first Born too. Both are very one note characters with rather bland designs (First Born's is one of the only Chiang designs that I find very generic and unappealing. He's literally just a big guy). I think Apollo was the more interesting villain to come out of this run.

The First Born is a big guy and that's what I like about him, he's male and not driven by jealousy. Right now that's good enough for me. There's nothing wrong with just a big powerful foe. Every powerful superhero needs a few of those. I think Circe and the Cheetah are for more clichéd. The Great Evil Witch and the Beast who are irredeemably obsessed with the well-loved beautiful princess and Apollo is no never-before-seen villain either.

Yeah I agree, there's nothing wrong with it, I just personally don't find the Doomsday/First Born/Genocide "RAAAH SMASH" kind of villains particularly interesting. They certainly have their place, but as villains, they have an expiry date and I rarely give their stories more than a once over.

#18 Edited by longbowhunter (7046 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still behind on Azzarello's run, but I'm still choosing him over Simone. Her run wasn't bad by any means, but I much prefer the horror and mythology to basic superheroics.

#19 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

I would think it would come out as rushed and unfinished if the story was compressed, since I cant remember a single issue where nothing important happened.

They could've easily told the same story with the same level of detail in 20 numbers had they made better use of space, with smaller panels and more dialogue.

#20 Edited by Saren (25616 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza said:

Simone had one of the best WW runs in recent times prior to that,

WW runs need ridiculously low standards for this to be accurate. And the sad thing is that this is probably true, Simone's WW is likely "one of the best".

Moderator
#21 Posted by r2datu (638 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

@bezza said:

Simone had one of the best WW runs in recent times prior to that,

WW runs need ridiculously low standards for this to be accurate. And the sad thing is that this is probably true, Simone's WW is likely "one of the best".

Even if you didn't personally enjoy it, many fans did love this run as did critics. But to each his own!

#22 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a fair comparison.

Azzarello had free reign to change Wonder Woman and create an awesome story.

Simone was good but had to work in the confines of Wonder Woman's convoluted continuity at the time.

Azzarello laid some awesome ground work and FIXED what needed fixing

If Simone came in after Azzarello that would be the best thing for Wonder Woman.

#23 Posted by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

I would think it would come out as rushed and unfinished if the story was compressed, since I cant remember a single issue where nothing important happened.

They could've easily told the same story with the same level of detail in 20 numbers had they made better use of space, with smaller panels and more dialogue.

Smaller panels means more of the space gets taken up by speechbubbles and is therefore wasting the art behind them.

But let me reformulate what I said earlier: I dont think it would have been as good if it went faster.

#24 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

Smaller panels means more of the space gets taken up by speechbubbles and is therefore wasting the art behind them.

But let me reformulate what I said earlier: I dont think it would have been as good if it went faster.

Because 'it would come out as rushed and unfinished' but not necessarily. Since a lot of us think the story's developing too slow, cranking up the pace a little bit would just set it right and to achieve this, they wouldn't necessarily have to drop detail, on the contrary. With smaller panels, they could've done more sub-stories within the main story, more fighting scenes, all the stuff we crave in 28 issues.

#25 Edited by Lvenger (19286 posts) - - Show Bio

Simone did have some issues that were really good Wonder Woman stories. But overall, Azzarello tells a much clearer, detailed and overall more glorious story that only Rucka and Perez can surpass for the Wonder Woman mythos.

#26 Edited by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

Smaller panels means more of the space gets taken up by speechbubbles and is therefore wasting the art behind them.

But let me reformulate what I said earlier: I dont think it would have been as good if it went faster.

Because 'it would come out as rushed and unfinished' but not necessarily. Since a lot of us think the story's developing too slow, cranking up the pace a little bit would just set it right and to achieve this, they wouldn't necessarily have to drop detail, on the contrary. With smaller panels, they could've done more sub-stories within the main story, more fighting scenes, all the stuff we crave in 28 issues.

No, some of you think it's too slow, not everyone. And I really dont think you are going to fix anything by adding limitations, especially in a time when it's only the fewest books of good quality art that has them. Finally, Azzarello is writing the story with the pace he's wanted and with most of the things he's wanted in it, that may not be exactly what you want, but forcing the creators to do something they dont want to isn't going to improve things.

#27 Posted by Bezza (3513 posts) - - Show Bio

@r2datu said:

@saren said:

@bezza said:

Simone had one of the best WW runs in recent times prior to that,

WW runs need ridiculously low standards for this to be accurate. And the sad thing is that this is probably true, Simone's WW is likely "one of the best".

Even if you didn't personally enjoy it, many fans did love this run as did critics. But to each his own!

Agreed, I can't see too much wrong with it!

#28 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

Finally, Azzarello is writing the story with the pace he's wanted and with most of the things he's wanted in it

yeah it just worries me that given total creative freedom, Azzarello for one would probably write her into a damsel in distress or a stripper, something along the lines of that. Even Grant Morrison's doing a cute little novel about her sapphic relationships, running away with Steve, the first man she ever set her eyes on. We need to keep some of these gentlemen on a tight leash

#29 Posted by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

Finally, Azzarello is writing the story with the pace he's wanted and with most of the things he's wanted in it

yeah it just worries me that given total creative freedom, Azzarello for one would probably write her into a damsel in distress or a stripper, something along the lines of that. Even Grant Morrison's doing a cute little novel about her sapphic relationships, running away with Steve, the first man she ever set her eyes on. We need to keep some of these gentlemen on a tight leash

The current series is horribly abusing that notion of Azzarello wanting to make Diana into a damsel. If it was Lobdell or Johns, I'd be worried too, but it's not.

#30 Edited by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Mostly in his interviews, I pick up some sexim here and there

#31 Posted by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by TDK_1997 (14685 posts) - - Show Bio

Azzarello most definitely.Simone;s Wonder Woman wasn't my type of thing.

#33 Posted by Muffin_Sangria (584 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizoom: Generally from his interviews I just pick up that he's kinda an ass. He doesn't seem to have much respect for other writers, and he thinks everything he puts out is absolute gold. I haven't read much in his interviews that comes off as sexist but I think he is a good enough writer to understand the sexism in a lot of the changes he's made to Wonder Woman's origins and what not. The fact that he can ignore that speaks volumes about him.

I'm just going to wait to see what Grant Morrison puts out. Some of the things he's said worry me but I also agree with him on a few points. Wonder Woman has been undersexualized with the way she's been written over the years (the artwork is another story.) It think it's a shame that she's had most no love life threw the post-crisis. I guess some people want to think of her as a perpetual virgin but I don't. That's one reason I'm for the temporary SM/WW relationship.

#34 Edited by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Little subtle notes of sexism like some of the things he said were cool about Marston's Wonder Woman and how he gave her dog-smarts and referred to her "muscles" as a weakness.

#35 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just going to wait to see what Grant Morrison puts out. Some of the things he's said worry me but I also agree with him on a few points. Wonder Woman has been undersexualized with the way she's been written over the years (the artwork is another story.) It think it's a shame that she's had most no love life threw the post-crisis. I guess some people want to think of her as a perpetual virgin but I don't. That's one reason I'm for the temporary SM/WW relationship.

I don't mind that Grant Morrison wants to give Wonder Woman a sex-life but apparently he wants that to be the whole theme of his novel which frankly i'm disappointed by. I had greater expectations. I'm only against her relationship with Superman because I knew how a relationship with the paragon of masculinity, the strongest hero on earth would inevitably turn out.

#36 Posted by Billy Batson (57943 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizoom: Generally from his interviews I just pick up that he's kinda an ass. He doesn't seem to have much respect for other writers, and he thinks everything he puts out is absolute gold. I haven't read much in his interviews that comes off as sexist but I think he is a good enough writer to understand the sexism in a lot of the changes he's made to Wonder Woman's origins and what not. The fact that he can ignore that speaks volumes about him.

Can you back this up? I've never seen any of this in his interviews.

BB

#37 Posted by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizoom: Generally from his interviews I just pick up that he's kinda an ass. He doesn't seem to have much respect for other writers, and he thinks everything he puts out is absolute gold.

@outside_85: Little subtle notes of sexism like some of the things he said were cool about Marston's Wonder Woman and how he gave her dog-smarts and referred to her "muscles" as a weakness.

I am a little curious which interviews you've both been reading to get this impression of him? Since as far as I can remember, the only thing Azzarello has said about WW before his own take, was that he didn't really care about her (not that he disliked her). He then later on mentioned that he liked her now... well that's not really odd considering hes had to be working with her for over a year at that point, if he didn't like her by then I would have imagined he'd jumped ship.

#38 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: That's just my perception of him, I'm very intuitive but I don't claim I know Azzarello. I could be completely mistaken about him and i do hope so. Men who like women objectify them and to some extent that's normal but allowing that to interfere with their work on a female character (not that Azzarello has done that) is unprofessional. I hope David Finch has this realization before taking over. Chiang had done Wonder Woman before for Batman, The brave and the Bold where she looked appreciably girlier so that tells me he put some thought into the character and made adjustments for this run. I'm hoping David will do the same because even if DC doesn't impose limits upon them, they should impose them upon themselves.

#39 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (727 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate both for different reasons. After the Circle Gail's run was often hoakie, corny and stupid but she didn't intentionally set out to harm Wonder Woman and her mythos the way Azzarello did.

#40 Posted by Experio (15310 posts) - - Show Bio

Azzarello.

Online
#41 Posted by WonderWomanFan8 (219 posts) - - Show Bio

Disclaimer: These aren't my words directly, but I find myself in agreement with some of the ideas.

@outside_85 @iaconpoint @saren

Azz has a lot of inconsistencies of his own. His WW killed Ares, and it was lame the way it happened. Why was WW struggling against regular monsters and showing expressions of struggle while smashing some big rocks? But she is supposed to have god-like power. That doesn't make sense. Simone's WW was consistent power-wise, and she cared about WW's rogue gallery. Azzarello left them behind, and created his own new villains, like the first born, who is another lame attempt to create a doomsday-like character for WW. Simone cared about her roots, while azzarello destroyed them making her the female Hercules with her changed origin. He changed it for what? It hasn't given anything new to her character. He hasn't used this change to flesh her out, develop new flaws, struggles, or areas of conflict for WW's character because she is too busy being caught up in the middle of drama that doesn't directly involve her, which makes the new origin irrelevant for the plot.

Simone's WW actually tried to find a way to solve things, while azz's WW has a passive role. She was far too naïve and trusting of certain people, like War and Hell. Her supporting cast is too big, oftentimes shifting focus away from WW too much, so azz hasn't done anything new with her. We haven't seen more development in her personal life, so a brand new origin didn't contribute to explore new parts of her character, her relationship with the amazons, her mother, or a father that was never there, all the lies, none of this has been developed. Azz's WW run isn't really about her at all. It's simply a god-family, dramatic, soap opera under the façade of a so-called 'horror' story, where WW is just caught up in the middle. Unfortunately, she is just there most of the time. Sidelined in her own title.

When it comes to new 52 version, azz>her other new 52 versions, but Simone>azz, and of course Rucka>>>>>>>>>>>>>azz.

#42 Posted by noj (1080 posts) - - Show Bio

Azarello by far

#43 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5181 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

Azarello by far

#44 Posted by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

@wonderwomanfan8: I might ask which parts of that you agree with... because to me it looks like it was written by someone who doesn't actually read the book.

#45 Edited by WonderWomanFan8 (219 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85

Well, before I get to those, was it ever explained why Diana made her home in London for any particular reason? Why did she choose to stay there?

For WW to become the God of War, it was almost like she had no choice in the matter. I know War suggested that he wanted her to succeed him, but still...I agree with the poster in regards to how Diana was essentially forced to kill War to stop First Born from killing him. She was able to display to Hephaestus that the lasso is a deadly weapon when used effectively, so how come she couldn't use it there to ensnare first born's neck in a tight grip to stop him from killing war? If she had done that, he would've had to focus on her to not choke him to death. But she only ended up killing war. How come she didn't kill first born then and there? Did she decide that was enough bloodshed, or did she think he was already dead?

Or, when Diana exchanged Eros' guns for Zola and her baby (because they were taken from her protection) and got shot. Did she not think that Hell would try something shady? I think she was a bit too trusting there. As far as I know, in Rucka's run, Diana always referred to War as "deceiver", for example, giving readers and indication that he's a person she doesn't trust. Diana doesn't seem to possess the same wisdom about her peers in Azz's run.

Also, has Diana or anyone confronted the Amazons who took part in the sex pirate raids? I find it ironic that all of the male offspring of the amazons are depicted as passive, docile men, grateful for Hephaestus taking them in as orphans. I find it ironic that not one of them wouldn't have tried to form an army amongst themselves to wage war against the female Amazons, which I think would've been an interesting plot for Diana to deal with.

Those are just a few things. I haven't read past the issue where War was killed, so if any of these things were explained/addressed, feel free to let me know.

#46 Edited by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

@wonderwomanfan8:

  • There hasn't been. But I will counter it with asking if there should be any particular reason for her to settle in any large city right now?
  • I am of the perception that Ares engineered his own demise at Diana's hands, because thats what he's wanted ever since he trained her.
  • Why not use the lasso? Well for one thing, we have seen that it actually doesn't work all that well on the Olympians (Strife for instance). Secondly, getting a noose around his neck wasnt going to stop FB from breaking the dry twig that was Ares'.
  • Why not kill him? Since when has Wonder Woman been into killing people who she had already defeated?
  • In regards to trust. If you read the preview pages of the last issue (28), you will know the answer, she believes in the honesty of people, even the bad ones (as said by Azzarello, it's her biggest strength and biggest weakness). In regards to Ares vs Hades; Ares of Pre-FP was a monster and a manipulator and the Amazons had known that for 3000 years, Hades of New 52 isn't.
  • Well right now the only reply Diana will get from confronting the Amazons with the raids is a wall of silence, or a 'hsss' if she's lucky. Confronting them before all that would be very difficult since the raids only takes place every 33 years, and Diana is only 23.
  • I am not sure why you find it ironic the Manazons are like that, Heph explained that he laments the state of things within his family with all the feuding fighting and backstabbing, so why wouldn't he teach his boys a different path? (or is it just that the men are docile and the Amazons are aggressive?)
#47 Posted by WonderWomanFan8 (219 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85

It just seems really random for her to be living there, like...it doesn't add any significance to the plot IMO...to me, it begs the question of why she would want to stay there.

2nd point, well that was War's side of things. That's what he wanted Diana to become, but what is it that Diana wants? I have heard that she wasn't willing to accept this role. If so, that's encouraging to hear for me. I really hope it doesn't stick.

And then, if the lasso wouldn't have been effective enough, why couldn't she have thrown her tiara at his hands to pierce his skin? In the past, the tiara was sharp enough to cut people's heads off, and slice superman's neck. Has that been removed? Is the tiara just decoration now?

So, she's already defeated First Born?

I guess you could say that she believes in "people's honesty", but I think that point has been driven too far to the point where she looks a bit too naïve imo. I was always under the impression that Diana believed in goodness of people, but before this run I don't think she would readily take everything she's told at face-value, especially when said persons haven't given her good reason to trust them. Like Diana and Ares, pre-52, in rucka's run.

For the male amazons, I just thought that if they really knew how they came to be, I'd imagine that some of them would be outraged by the acts of their mothers, and would want revenge. But all of them seem pretty fine with their current situation. A shame tbh, because I think azz missed out on a potential great plot twist there.

#48 Posted by Outside_85 (8679 posts) - - Show Bio

@wonderwomanfan8: It's random for her to live anywhere but Paradise Island. But I can give you a good reason for her not to live in the US; the early JL issues had people protesting against her.

She never pursued it and she has yet to accept that shes taken up the mantle. I hope it does stick.

About the tiara; it's not been shown to be a weapon at all in the New 52. Plus it's now kinda redundant, SM/WW Diana carries a sword that can cut electrons off atoms and WW Diana carries an arsenal in her bracelets.

She didn't kill the Minotaur either.

It's where it needs to be in order for Diana to be the leader of such a diverse group of characters.

As for the Manazons, I think it's a pretty far reach to imagine them wanting to seek revenge against the Amazons, mostly because the trade to Heph happened when they were so young they couldn't remember it. If anything I think Heph taught them to lament that they were treated that way, but accept the fact that it happened and that instead they had him.

#49 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

This is really close for me. I'd love to see what Simone/Chiang would do following Azz's run.

#50 Posted by WonderWomanFan8 (219 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 So, are you saying that Diana is running from people in the U.S. specifically because they have protested against her? That doesn't sound like a very bold Diana to me. I hold to the view that Diana shines best when she's standing up for herself, or when she's defending her ideals against others. Besides, it's not like regular people pose any real threat to her safety. But you know what? That idea makes me think that they should definitely bring back Veronica Cale into the continuity. She'd be great to play off of that.

I don't think the sword should be a mainstay in her arsenal. I've always thought it was unique how Diana was such a skilled warrior in combat with only a few tools at her disposal, and limited armor. But if she has to use a sword, let it be only in critical situations. Azzarello would've done well to take a cue from Simone in this regard. Like how Simone only had Diana use those dazzling lighting blasts from her bracelets in critical situations, Diana should only have to use the sword in similar scenarios.

And I still think Azz could've done something different with the male amazons. For example, I was thinking of a potential male amazon who would've emerged from the group of passive male amazons. He was the son of an amazon woman and a mystic African priest. With special abilities of his own, he gathers a group of rogue male amazons on a mission to seek revenge on his mother and all other female amazons, which ultimately leads to conflict with Diana. That would've been a great plot to me!

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