The last thing I want is to view the Amazons, whose name has become synonymous with strong woman, as victims of patriarchy that can't cope with anything, confined to a paradisiacal island that was donated to them along with enhanced strength and intelligence. With those divine endowments, even a troop of chimpanzees would've flourished into a sophisticated nation.

Give me a breakaway group of women that, fed up with greek patriarchal law, took off to the Americas, slew the native tribes and seized their land. Then have the Amazons grow out of those ancient barbaric ways, institute a democracy, develop their own technology, genetically engineer all manner of chimeric creatures, make important discoveries in the field of magic and squeeze it all in a graphic novel spanning 3000 years of amazonian history.

No. Let them continue killing sailors after having their way with said sailors.

It's simple but offensive and limits their actions towards other societies. No, that plot has lowered Wonder Woman's credibility multiple times. I do think that plot could be used well for another part of her series' cast but it's impossibly hard to pull off without offending someone.

Nah it's high time the Amazons evolved past hunting and gathering and entered the agricultural age. It'd be a lot more profitable to keep some men shackled in a barn and milk them for baby gravy

Amazons should have that origin, but not the new52 amazons.

@parachomp: And what Azzarello did doesn't offend anyone?

I like the Amazons, i just read a story that showed their society a little more. Got a good look at their library. It has a very wide variety of subjects.

@FoamBorn, @Saint_Sophie why do you guys think the Amazons being villains is better than them being victims.

Oops voted wrong way. I meant no. Won't let me change it.

I don't subscribe to the idea that empowered heroines or women in general have to include in their origins them being victims of slavery, rape and other forms of brutality. I think that there are better ways to show growth for female characters as well as make me more invested/sympathetic to the characters as a reader.

It's not because I view those subjects as taboo, but I feel as though having those elements in origin stories are unnecessary because it doesn't make me more invested/sympathetic to the characters. Especially in this case because the time between Amazon's brutal origins and now would be so vast that it can't be used to justify their actions.

@agent_z said:

Those aren't mutually exclusive, one can be a villain and a victim at the same time.

I don't subscribe to that idea either. However, I think in the Amazons' case it could be used to explain how they came to hold the views they do and make them more sympathetic characters instead of the sociopathic bullies they've mostly been written as post-Flashpoint. If Azz can make us feel sorry for Hera for not leaving her adulterous husband, then I don't think 3000 years should make a difference for the Amazons.

@youknowwhattodo said: Those aren't mutually exclusive, one can be a villain and a victim at the same time.

Foamborn and Sophie's answers seem to paint them more in the villain camp though.

I honestly have enough of both strong women characters that have exactly that one character trait, which is interchangeable with violent and the strong women characters that have these victim/sob stories as explanations. The first kind is just boring and flat and the second is just bullshit, male characters especially in the supheroe genre have "victim" backstories in the broadest sense, too, but those are not based on their gender and a lot more versatile.

But hey, I also think not every black character should have a history of discrimination and gay characters should not be miserable because of their sexuality. And characters in general should not have the same backstories we have heard a billion times already.

@agent_z: I was joking. However, I think that before the relaunch the Amazons were bland and now they're full on, archaic and uninspiring. For me the virtue is somewhere in the middle between these two extremes. I like my amazons inimical to men but not necessarily devoid of scruples and morality.

What did he do this time? I actually try to read his For Tomorrow and it read like complete shit. I didn't even get it (i mean the point of it) even though I followed it because...hey. Jim Lee!

It just livens things up a bit more.

How does it do that? Without that extra bit of depth their motivations are up in the air and the Amazons just come across as one-dimensional bullies that Wonder Woman endeavored to reform. The onus was placed on them, not the patriarchy that wronged them and set them on this path, this is how Azz chose to portray them. What patriarchy's done to the Amazons was obviously not a concern of his.

@agent_z: Jesus it's just my opinion. The Amazons themselves are already warriors who would kill when needed. This just solidifies more their savagery. With Diana being created to not only be a basturd child of Zeus, but also as a being to show them that men aren't that bad. While in man's world, Diana's goal aside from pleasing Superman and the Olympian gods, is about gender equality and all that jazz.

Besides, I also wouldn't it. I mean, look at Flashpoint Wonder Woman. :)

I think they should still they should have their battle with Hercules and his men. That's just a standard part of the mythology. With most modern interpretations of Hercules being a goody two shoes boy-scout I like DC going the other direction, and making him a total asshole. That being said I think the story might be better off if they downplay the enslavement, and maybe ditch the sexual assault all together. I've been playing with my own idea for an alternative version of the origin that I think works pretty well, but it wouldn't really match up with the New 52 continuity because it started as alternative way to bring in the "Manazons" without the whole sex pirate thing.

@muffin_sangria: I don't think Heracles has to be involved. You could substitute Achilles, Theseus or Jason in his place.

Well Hercules has always been involved in Pre-crisis, Post-crisis, and even in the orginial Green myth. I don't see any reason to switch to someone else.

@saint_sophie: I just don't see what is so good about portraying the Amazons in such an unsympathetic light. Just because this how they are portrayed doesn't mean they have to be that way.

The Amazons once are old fashioned/living in the past (literally). I like the theme of Diana being the best out of them all, going to the outside world and realizing how much different it is in Man's World. And as such, with living in the past means being "uncivilized" and thus savagery is introduced.

And like I said WW's there to show them the light heh.

But you know, a compromise could be done here. I mean, why don't the Amazons show that not all of them are man hating savages?

@saint_sophie: I'm not asking for them to be flawless. They haven't been perfect since the 80s. I'm simply saying that portraying them as victims of oppression who fled patriarch world would put them in a more sympathetic light. That it would be better to understand were they are coming from.

Great. Thanks for sharing your opinion with me.

Now my opinion is that the oppression themes won't really give me any new found sympathy or pity for them. I think I'll stick with the uncivilized savages we have right now. Who also happen to dig doing one night stands.

Oh my, they just killed their brothers as an act to "cleanse" the island.

Kinda how I like my Amazons. Savage like and man hating. :)

Well I don't really care for the Amazons being "savage and man hating" I actually like the idea of them committing a gender based genocide as their dark secret rather then having an ongoing tradition of raping, and murdering men.

I wrote about my idea above where the Amazons build a weapon to turn all the Gargareans into stone. It wouldn't be a true genocide since the Amazons would be capable of reverting the process, but the fact that the Amazons chose to leave the men in a state of living death for thousands of years adds it's own sort of horror to it.

Agreed. I find nothing remotely interesting about these Amazons. They're evil for the sake of being evil. I also read your version and liked how you included that the Gargeans were the aggressors.

@agent_z: Yeah I thought it would be better if the Gargareans were the one's to be the original aggressors. At the same time I didn't want the Amazons to just be victims, and I didn't want them to be totally innocent either. I think Perez was trying to do the same thing somewhat, but he went a little too far with the victim hood, and not far enough with the revenge.

No they need to lose it , we have enough victims in todays world.

Wow maybe the amazons should have asked there spartan sisters for an education on being strong woman. It's real to are world history that spartan woman took on many of the rules and roles there men would have and did do.

My gut reaction to this was NO! Largely because I like the idea that the Amazons chose to seclude themselves to pursue a higher purpose of some sort. But as I think this through I realize that as women with a 3000-year history as a society they almost have to have come from a world of abuse, misogyny and hardship. Women deserve a story of the Amazons overcoming a world that sucks and becoming an example of what women can achieve.