This is going to be fun -Sits back and eats popcorn-
Wonder Woman
Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8807 issues.
The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.
Scott Lobdell should write Wonder Woman
Would anyone different writing her really make any difference? Anyone who writes her has to go with the Azzarello version. Just pouring new coke into a different glass doesn't change the taste.
@mark_stephen: I find it funny how even after 74 years people seem to think minor changes to a character can't be undone by a good writer. Mellow some of her more aggressive behavior down, start introducing some Amazons who are not just vicious warriors, make it clear that Diana is following the God of War path Athena held to the Greeks ... have the Amazons do some atonement and move forward as a society.
With that said, I'm not sure Lobdell is the man for the job.
Would anyone different writing her really make any difference? Anyone who writes her has to go with the Azzarello version. Just pouring new coke into a different glass doesn't change the taste.
Right, but, probably for a different reason than you're thinking; nothing will change much provided the current editorial team is the same; I think that's been the constant over the past 5 or 6 years. Scott would probably desire so much, but the editor will soon make it difficult to tell his story from the current team, Azz, or JMS/Hester; and, I bet that's the reason it's tough to find the well known writers, they know they wont be allowed to write their stories.
There are only 2 DC writers I can think of that can do a worst job than Merideth Finch: Anne Nocenti and Scott Lobdell. Dude already ruined Superman for a year, but at least Supes had 2 ongoings; Wondy only has the one.
Scotty should go back to Marvel and write one of the 1528 X books that no one cares about.
@mark_stephen: I find it funny how even after 74 years people seem to think minor changes to a character can't be undone by a good writer. Mellow some of her more aggressive behavior down, start introducing some Amazons who are not just vicious warriors, make it clear that Diana is following the God of War path Athena held to the Greeks ... have the Amazons do some atonement and move forward as a society.
With that said, I'm not sure Lobdell is the man for the job.
As dshipp17 said the writer would be roadblocked by the editors who like the amazons as rapist and murderers and Diana as a sword wielding Xena clone. Changing her birth and the amazons nature and civilization are not minor changes and generations of blood can't be erased by a new writer.
@mark_stephen: I find it funny how even after 74 years people seem to think minor changes to a character can't be undone by a good writer. Mellow some of her more aggressive behavior down, start introducing some Amazons who are not just vicious warriors, make it clear that Diana is following the God of War path Athena held to the Greeks ... have the Amazons do some atonement and move forward as a society.
With that said, I'm not sure Lobdell is the man for the job.
As dshipp17 said the writer would be roadblocked by the editors who like the amazons as rapist and murderers and Diana as a sword wielding Xena clone. Changing her birth and the amazons nature and civilization are not minor changes and generations of blood can't be erased by a new writer.
I just checked and it looks like there's an entirely different editorial team on Wonder Woman, starting with issue 41. So, it appears that it's just the current team that has moved away from the past 5 years yet. So, perhaps Scott could tell his story unhindered, if he cam aboard. But, the current team says they will start reintroducing her rogues gallery; problem is that Dr. Psycho doesn't seem to be first in their thoughts; instead, they could only mention Silver Swan, like going way back into Wonder Woman's archives (e.g. they did pick the obscure Aegis), and Cheetah, but, for some reason, they seem to be drawing a blank on Dr. Psycho; this even despite the recent Wonder Woman 77, Sensation Comics, and Gods and Monsters; JMS/Hester picked up on it, but, it just disappeared again for some reason.
I don't want to sound rude (considering the fact that Lobdell has an account here) but his work over the past few years left me quite unsatisfied.
@csg_cl: that only works if a) DC puts a good writer on the book and b) said "good writer" wants to fix the mistakes.
all true ... my point is that it's doable if someone wants to do it. A writer with sufficient clout (i.e. Azzarello) can force the issue with editorial teams if they have a vision for WW that the top dogs like. John's has already begun shifting her personality back toward her roots, won't take much for another writer who is willing to follow suit. Her birth as DoZ and the details of the Amazon's pirating don't define the character nor does her role as GoW ... all of these things can easily be left behind or turned into positive things if someone wished to do it. Point is, nothing is permanent/unfixable in comics.
Not permanent or inflexible, but they should be lasting and dealt with. Being the daughter of Zeus doesn't define her but coming from a culture of murderers and rapists does define at least a part of her. These were the women who raised her after all.
Personally I'm tired of every writer having the clout to shift direction as he sees fit regardless of character history. Azzarello and company trashed Hypolita and the Amazons for what ever reasons seemed good at the time, now another writer will come in and try to restore them? Then what? Do we wait another few years for another writer to come in and trash them again? Sorry, that's not worth 2.99 to 3.99 for me. Write what they will, unless it really is great I'll wait a few years and pick it up in the dollar box. I just don't have the money to use up on writers' whims right now.
Not permanent or inflexible, but they should be lasting and dealt with. Being the daughter of Zeus doesn't define her but coming from a culture of murderers and rapists does define at least a part of her. These were the women who raised her after all.
Personally I'm tired of every writer having the clout to shift direction as he sees fit regardless of character history. Azzarello and company trashed Hypolita and the Amazons for what ever reasons seemed good at the time, now another writer will come in and try to restore them? Then what? Do we wait another few years for another writer to come in and trash them again? Sorry, that's not worth 2.99 to 3.99 for me. Write what they will, unless it really is great I'll wait a few years and pick it up in the dollar box. I just don't have the money to use up on writers' whims right now.
The thing about the Amazon's right now is that we've only really seen a handful of them and those under very specific circumstances. It wouldn't be that hard for a writer to show us a bunch of different Amazons who have better characterizations. I enjoyed Azzarello's story, but I disliked how he treated the Amazons, but I would also say that this has been a path various writers have been taking them down since Perez.
Not permanent or inflexible, but they should be lasting and dealt with. Being the daughter of Zeus doesn't define her but coming from a culture of murderers and rapists does define at least a part of her. These were the women who raised her after all.
Personally I'm tired of every writer having the clout to shift direction as he sees fit regardless of character history. Azzarello and company trashed Hypolita and the Amazons for what ever reasons seemed good at the time, now another writer will come in and try to restore them? Then what? Do we wait another few years for another writer to come in and trash them again? Sorry, that's not worth 2.99 to 3.99 for me. Write what they will, unless it really is great I'll wait a few years and pick it up in the dollar box. I just don't have the money to use up on writers' whims right now.
The thing about the Amazon's right now is that we've only really seen a handful of them and those under very specific circumstances. It wouldn't be that hard for a writer to show us a bunch of different Amazons who have better characterizations. I enjoyed Azzarello's story, but I disliked how he treated the Amazons, but I would also say that this has been a path various writers have been taking them down since Perez.
Yea, it's been a long slow descent from enlightened and advanced to man hating and primitive and it hasn't been fun.
Not permanent or inflexible, but they should be lasting and dealt with. Being the daughter of Zeus doesn't define her but coming from a culture of murderers and rapists does define at least a part of her. These were the women who raised her after all.
Personally I'm tired of every writer having the clout to shift direction as he sees fit regardless of character history. Azzarello and company trashed Hypolita and the Amazons for what ever reasons seemed good at the time, now another writer will come in and try to restore them? Then what? Do we wait another few years for another writer to come in and trash them again? Sorry, that's not worth 2.99 to 3.99 for me. Write what they will, unless it really is great I'll wait a few years and pick it up in the dollar box. I just don't have the money to use up on writers' whims right now.
The thing about the Amazon's right now is that we've only really seen a handful of them and those under very specific circumstances. It wouldn't be that hard for a writer to show us a bunch of different Amazons who have better characterizations. I enjoyed Azzarello's story, but I disliked how he treated the Amazons, but I would also say that this has been a path various writers have been taking them down since Perez.
Yea, it's been a long slow descent from enlightened and advanced to man hating and primitive and it hasn't been fun.
There has been some very good stuff during all this though. Certainly I'd like to see the Amazons return to their GA roots of utopian-scientists, but I can live with the more primitive version for now. Sadly Finch has made them worse though.
Wow Finch gets a lot of hate here. I read the first arch of hers and thought it was pretty good, until the end that is. Didn't address any of the legitimate issues raised.
She has had some decent ideas, but the execution has been bad IMO. her dialogue choices have made Diana seem like a whiner and the Amazons are even more extremists under her pen than Azzarello. And what they did to Donna Troy is pretty much horrid.
Not permanent or inflexible, but they should be lasting and dealt with. Being the daughter of Zeus doesn't define her but coming from a culture of murderers and rapists does define at least a part of her. These were the women who raised her after all.
Personally I'm tired of every writer having the clout to shift direction as he sees fit regardless of character history. Azzarello and company trashed Hypolita and the Amazons for what ever reasons seemed good at the time, now another writer will come in and try to restore them? Then what? Do we wait another few years for another writer to come in and trash them again? Sorry, that's not worth 2.99 to 3.99 for me. Write what they will, unless it really is great I'll wait a few years and pick it up in the dollar box. I just don't have the money to use up on writers' whims right now.
The thing about the Amazon's right now is that we've only really seen a handful of them and those under very specific circumstances. It wouldn't be that hard for a writer to show us a bunch of different Amazons who have better characterizations. I enjoyed Azzarello's story, but I disliked how he treated the Amazons, but I would also say that this has been a path various writers have been taking them down since Perez.
Yea, it's been a long slow descent from enlightened and advanced to man hating and primitive and it hasn't been fun.
There has been some very good stuff during all this though. Certainly I'd like to see the Amazons return to their GA roots of utopian-scientists, but I can live with the more primitive version for now. Sadly Finch has made them worse though.
What has been the good stuff? I'm afraid I gave up looking.
Wow Finch gets a lot of hate here. I read the first arch of hers and thought it was pretty good, until the end that is. Didn't address any of the legitimate issues raised.
She has had some decent ideas, but the execution has been bad IMO. her dialogue choices have made Diana seem like a whiner and the Amazons are even more extremists under her pen than Azzarello. And what they did to Donna Troy is pretty much horrid.
Yea, between what the writers have done to the amazons and now to Donna I have to wonder if they grew up not-liking either. Or if they really think that making someone a murderess is the only way to make her interesting.
Not permanent or inflexible, but they should be lasting and dealt with. Being the daughter of Zeus doesn't define her but coming from a culture of murderers and rapists does define at least a part of her. These were the women who raised her after all.
Personally I'm tired of every writer having the clout to shift direction as he sees fit regardless of character history. Azzarello and company trashed Hypolita and the Amazons for what ever reasons seemed good at the time, now another writer will come in and try to restore them? Then what? Do we wait another few years for another writer to come in and trash them again? Sorry, that's not worth 2.99 to 3.99 for me. Write what they will, unless it really is great I'll wait a few years and pick it up in the dollar box. I just don't have the money to use up on writers' whims right now.
The thing about the Amazon's right now is that we've only really seen a handful of them and those under very specific circumstances. It wouldn't be that hard for a writer to show us a bunch of different Amazons who have better characterizations. I enjoyed Azzarello's story, but I disliked how he treated the Amazons, but I would also say that this has been a path various writers have been taking them down since Perez.
Yea, it's been a long slow descent from enlightened and advanced to man hating and primitive and it hasn't been fun.
There has been some very good stuff during all this though. Certainly I'd like to see the Amazons return to their GA roots of utopian-scientists, but I can live with the more primitive version for now. Sadly Finch has made them worse though.
What has been the good stuff? I'm afraid I gave up looking.
I found the story interesting. What happened to Diana when her entire life is turned upside down and she discovered herself questioning everything she thought she knew. I like that Azzarello took an established origin and instead of scrapping it and starting over he essentially said it was a myth that everyone bought into ... Hippolyta pulled off the biggest lie in the universe for 20+ years and now that the cat's out of the bag all hell is breaking loose.
I liked that Diana seemed real and was sarcastic at times and had a temper, but learned to control it (at least when Azzarello wrote her), I liked that she wasn't some naive girl but a strong woman who went through this experience. I like that she had to expand her world because of her crazy family. I liked that it wasn't 100% action all the time, but there was always a sense of ominousness and peril about the whole story. I liked that she had little victories such as winning over Sirraca and Hera as well as the big ones. I liked that she used her brains to outsmart Hera, Hades and Poseidon as well as her physical power to defeat Artemis and First Born.
It wasn't perfect, of course, and probably would have been a better Elseworld style Graphic Novel, but I was entertained. Sadly the Finch's haven't done much great work ... although it's getting better.
@mark_stephen: but it was just the introduction to her character. Isn't the next arch supposed to develop her more? I'm gonna with hold judgment on the new Donna for now.
@mark_stephen: but it was just the introduction to her character. Isn't the next arch supposed to develop her more? I'm gonna with hold judgment on the new Donna for now.
Yea, but in the meantime she's killed people. We have yet another heroine with a guilty past to get over. I'm tired of that.
Not permanent or inflexible, but they should be lasting and dealt with. Being the daughter of Zeus doesn't define her but coming from a culture of murderers and rapists does define at least a part of her. These were the women who raised her after all.
Personally I'm tired of every writer having the clout to shift direction as he sees fit regardless of character history. Azzarello and company trashed Hypolita and the Amazons for what ever reasons seemed good at the time, now another writer will come in and try to restore them? Then what? Do we wait another few years for another writer to come in and trash them again? Sorry, that's not worth 2.99 to 3.99 for me. Write what they will, unless it really is great I'll wait a few years and pick it up in the dollar box. I just don't have the money to use up on writers' whims right now.
I want it the other way around; I think Azzarello characterized the Amazons accurately, it's Diana's personality that continues to be off (e.g. and, previously, the Amazons' portrayal was way off); since these women raised her, her personality should more reflect theirs; it's silly for her to be seen lecturing the Amazons about better morals, when they raised her; she didn't raise them; or, a fix is to show Diana's adventures from when she first left the island to the outside world shaping her into being able to get along with and live with men, as the normal decorum in Man's World; this reshaping period should heavily involve Dr. Psycho, on one extreme, her daily encounters with men, in the center extreme, and her interactions with the members of the Justice League and maybe even Steve Trevor, at the other extreme (e.g. lots of opportunity for the introduction of gender politics). She need this shaping to show how her growing up with the Amazons was fleshed out of her, but, it should be a work in progress; she should not be at the point where she can so completely lecture the Amazons who raised her on how to behave with men; she probably will never reach that point.
I'm not sure accurate is a phrase you can use when you're dealing with mythical people. Marston wasn't accurate either. For Azzarello's story to work he needed the amazons to be isil-like killers so he wrote them that way, just as during amazon's attack they were written as cold blooded murderers, it was what his story needed and so he did it. Just as changing Diana's origin or Donna's character was what the story needed. Character history -except maybe the accurate spelling of names- or accuracy, didn't matter. Again, the amazons and Donna, making them cold blooded murderers seems to be the only way that DC was able to come up with to make them interesting.
@csg_cl: Doesn't mean that people can't express when they feel mistakes are being made. The Finches clearly aren't right for this book, but editorial saw fit to put them on it. And it seems they aren't doing anything to change that any time soon.
Look I'm not mad at you here. Just saying why the current direction of this books annoys me so much.
@csg_cl: Doesn't mean that people can't express when they feel mistakes are being made. The Finches clearly aren't right for this book, but editorial saw fit to put them on it. And it seems they aren't doing anything to change that any time soon.
Look I'm not mad at you here. Just saying why the current direction of this books annoys me so much.
I didn't say that people can't express their feelings, it's the point of a forum. I just think folks go looking for negatives and would prefer to b!tch about things because they think it makes them sound insightful when they degrade the hard work of others, I'm certain Meredith Finch is trying to do good work. FYI, this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just a general observation of internet behavior.
I happen to agree with you regarding the Finch's being a bad fit for the book I also think Tomasi is horrible for SM/WW, but I can still find things I enjoy about both titles, even though I'd prefer writers who see the characters more like I do.
This is going to be fun -Sits back and eats popcorn-
Thats not funny.
@outside_85: Sometimes I think fans can't have a sense of humor
@outside_85: Sometimes I think fans can't have a sense of humor
Well, thats the thing, jokes are funny, Scott Lobdell writing a book that isn't supposed to be from the 90'ties isn't.
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