Problems with Wonder Woman fans

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#1 Edited by lilben42 (2530 posts) - - Show Bio

They are too strict. They don't want anything changed at all. I recently just saw people complaining about Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord saying it went against her message of peace. Well peace has to be fought for. Anyway, Diana made a split second decision and while it might of been a mistake it gave her development. I personally want to see Diana do more questionable things as long as it makes sense why she did it and has an impact on everyone. Another problem is that her some of her fans search for problems. I saw this woman complaining about Wonder Woman losing to a man and the she was talking about the inner meaning.... what the he**! Writers can't do anything interesting with her without getting a complaint from fans. I know that everyone will never be satisfied but this is the majority of her fans. I've seen people say that she used to never have a personality before and that she never made mistakes and that's why they could ever get into her stories. Of course some complaints are justified.

#2 Posted by waezi2 (7138 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

They are too strict. They don't want anything changed at all. I recently just saw people complaining about Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord saying it went against her message of peace.

Well, she could have used her lasso of truth on Superman, and solve the problem without killing Max. Our problem is that Diana have been in situations like this before. And that she didn't try anything else first.

Well peace has to be fought for. Anyway, Diana made a split second decision and while it might of been a mistake it gave her great development.

What development? I'm not saying your are wrong, but what development?

Another problem is that her some of her fans search for problems. I saw this woman complaining about Wonder Woman losing to a man and the she was talking about the inner meaning.... what the he**!

What, really? That is stupid, I give you that.

I've seen people say that she used to never have a personality before and that she never made mistakes and that's why they could ever get into her stories.

Apparently they haven't read enough WW comics

#3 Posted by JuliusTakalua (270 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman New 52 is great... just saying

#4 Edited by lilben42 (2530 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: Okay so it wasn't the best development but it was something. It made her more serious and darker.

#5 Posted by lilben42 (2530 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: That makes sense about Lord but that's not the reasoning I heard.

#6 Posted by waezi2 (7138 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42: I know. I just wanted to point out that not all WW fans are unreasonable when they argue, but I agree with you that any kind of fan, especially a WW fan can be annoying.

#7 Edited by batmannflash (6215 posts) - - Show Bio

Yah I agree with the OP. I'm a big WW fan myself but I love the New 52. Changes can sometines be good. I dont think it's just her fans, though. A lot of different fans hate seeing their fav character changed a lot.

#8 Posted by gator4eva (396 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the New 52 Wonder Woman and her origin a lot and have no problem with the change. But let's be honest. If Batman and Superman's origins changed we would have rioting in the streets.

#9 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Well,

Maybe one day all WW fans can join that perfect world where everyone likes the Man of Steel and every X-men movie, a Catwoman who kills, Power Girl's new 52 debut costume, Batman and Superman killing, the high quality of DC stories and the wonderful racial diversity of mainstream comic book titles.

WW fans on all sides keep the title selling and the character relevant, so I see no problem with that. If a difference of opinion is annoying, then the annoyed parties have a perverse pleasure of punishing themselves reviewing message boards.

Psst... if you are terribly bothered by a differing opinion on WW enough to speak out about, you too are probably a WW fan. Welcome to this "problem" society.

#10 Edited by Hastalavista (361 posts) - - Show Bio

I think WW in her own title is fine, but she's been unreasonable and less mature in JL. Also, what's the point of a 'dark' wonder woman? She's supposed to be warm-hearted and passionate, to represent love and forgiveness as well as duty and loyalty. She doesn't have to be mean and sarcastic to seem realistic...

I guess the reason why WW fans are so hard to please is because they give faith to her and wish her to be the hero they are longing for. What people think a great female superhero should be can be quite different from person to person. And this reflects on an iconic character like WW.

#11 Edited by PowerWoman (3346 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont like New 52 wonder woman art's,I dont like changed

#12 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42:the problem is that so many changes prove that DC doesn't care about WW's origin,story,powers and personality as much as they care for other characters,if batman and superman origins had so many changes,their fans would be complaining too,and deep inside you know that.

killing maxell was a highlight moment for her,because even thought she wants to teach about peace,there is a limit,and that was an extreme situation,it had to be done.

the problem is that now we are in the new 52,and what happens?,they changed her origin from being made of clay to being zeus daugther,they made the amazons a bunch of rapists and killers,they took away her villans,they keep her runing in circles with the drama about the baby,they spend some issues with talk and talk instead of trying to move on with the story,they took away her heroic side,there is almost no occasion for her to come out and shine like a hero,no highligth moments in terms of fights and feats either,while in her JL version they destroyed her personality and morals,they made her the stereotypical warrior,she acts like a total bitch and thinks she is better than the others,so between these 2 books we don't get one good defination of the character she used to be,her 2 appearances in these titles are different and none of them reflect the true core of the character because a lot of things are missing and many other things changed and not for good,everything about her is messy right now,and if somebody did that to batman and superman,you can bet even more people would be complaining.

#13 Posted by PowerWoman (3346 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. I stopped reading New 52 WW because of whiny fans, plus her being depicted differently in other books.

#15 Edited by Hastalavista (361 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: totally agreed. Wonder Woman is a complicated character driven by her inner conflict of love and duty. She's tough yet she forgive her enemies quickly as long as they realize and regret their mistake; she's not afraid of expressing opinion and stick to it yet she humbly change her mind when she know she's wrong. Some writers only see one side of her and cut the rest of her character out of the story. It's easier to write anyway, letting her to be the reckless warrior to pick up a fight. Completely ignorant and irresponsible.

#16 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2976 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: Their a company of course they care about money

#17 Posted by PowerWoman (3346 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by PowerWoman (3346 posts) - - Show Bio

@hastalavista: Yep,New 52 wonder woman just sucks, she was a killer,at least John'wonder woman is as bad as hell

#19 Posted by Pokeysteve (8250 posts) - - Show Bio

It went against her message of peace but it's right there in line with her doing anything it takes to save lives.

I hope you aren't lumping all of her fans into one group.

#20 Edited by Hastalavista (361 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: wait... She killed someone in New52? I can't recall any of these incidences... If you are referring to her conversation with superman regarding killing in JL comic, I remember she said she doesn't have to kill when she has her lasso. I assume she implies that the lasso forces her enemies to realize who they really are and stop what they are doing. Am I wrong?

#21 Posted by PowerWoman (3346 posts) - - Show Bio

@hastalavista: No,she was killed a lot of people in New 52 Batwoman

#22 Posted by Hastalavista (361 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by PowerWoman (3346 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

They are too strict. They don't want anything changed at all.

You realize most fans of anything are this way right? They like to complain about changes that don't matter even if they weren't supporting said character to begin with.

#25 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: totally agreed. Wonder Woman is a complicated character driven by her inner conflict of love and duty. She's tough yet she forgive her enemies quickly as long as they realize and regret their mistake; she's not afraid of expressing opinion and stick to it yet she humbly change her mind when she know she's wrong. Some writers only see one side of her and cut the rest of her character out of the story. It's easier to write anyway, letting her to be the reckless warrior to pick up a fight. Completely ignorant and irresponsible.

that's why she should only be written by writters that actually know and care about her story,power and personality and want to respect the core of the character,like perez,ruka,simone.

#26 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@knighthood:whiny fans,i'll say it again.

the problem is that so many changes prove that DC doesn't care about WW's origin,story,powers and personality as much as they care for other characters,if batman and superman origins had so many changes,their fans would be complaining too,and deep inside you know that.

killing maxell was a highlight moment for her,because even thought she wants to teach about peace,there is a limit,and that was an extreme situation,it had to be done.

the problem is that now we are in the new 52,and what happens?,they changed her origin from being made of clay to being zeus daugther,they made the amazons a bunch of rapists and killers,they took away her villans,they keep her runing in circles with the drama about the baby,they spend some issues with talk and talk instead of trying to move on with the story,they took away her heroic side,there is almost no occasion for her to come out and shine like a hero,no highligth moments in terms of fights and feats either,while in her JL version they destroyed her personality and morals,they made her the stereotypical warrior,she acts like a total bitch and thinks she is better than the others,so between these 2 books we don't get one good defination of the character she used to be,her 2 appearances in these titles are different and none of them reflect the true core of the character because a lot of things are missing and many other things changed and not for good,everything about her is messy right now,and if somebody did that to batman and superman,you can bet even more people would be complaining.

#27 Edited by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I don't think it's that fans don't want change (getting rid of the invisible plane and the Diana Prince moniker were changes that a lot of fans seem to be behind), it's that they (we) want good writing. I think she's a character that inspires a lot of very passionate and devoted fandom, so we don't like seeing the character written poorly.

I don't mind that Azzarello changed Wonder Woman. I do mind that the changes don't make a lot of sense and don't fit with the motivations of the characters. Sure, the New 52 was all about changing the status quo, but since it wasn't a COIE type event, they needed to either justify the changes as natural motivations of the existing characters, or, if the characters were fundamentally different, Azzarello needed to spend some time letting us know that. He took neither approach.

#28 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:exactly,what do you think about my comment above?,do you agree?.

#29 Edited by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Copy and paste much? Yeah, whiny fans. Not only does DC not care about her origin, story, powers, and personality but neither does much of the general comic reading populace. So when someone puts a fresh spin on WW that I actually enjoy, I basically stopped reading be cause of whiny fans and Justice League conflicting with what's happening in the WW main title. You should be happy that WW actually has a decent book and support it.

#30 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@knighthood:and who cares about the general comic audience?,they should repect her background as much as they respect batman and superman,and i don't think this new book is good for the reasons i already stated.

#31 Posted by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Copy and paste much? Yeah, whiny fans. Not only does DC not care about her origin, story, powers, and personality but neither does much of the general comic reading populace. So when someone puts a fresh spin on WW that I actually enjoy, I basically stopped reading be cause of whiny fans and Justice League conflicting with what's happening in the WW main title. You should be happy that WW actually has a decent book and support it.

I think the point we're making is that it isn't necessarily a quality book. I'm fine with changes to a character, but I'm not fine with bad writing - and failing to define a character's motivation is bad writing 101. I don't necessarily think DC doesn't care about the character, but they don't put their best writers on her book, and that's the problem. There are some awful Batman books out at the moment, but the flagship title has Scott Snyder, who is one of the best writers in the business and, lo and behold, the book and the character are great. Azzarello is pretty hit and miss, and that same inconsistency is evident in his Wonder Woman run, hence the anger of a lot of her fans.

#32 Edited by drgnx (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

HUH?

People complain, it is a human trait....don't worry about it...

#33 Posted by PowerWoman (3346 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: And i dont think there has too many people like new 52 wonder woman's art

#34 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer:seems that many people still don't get that there are a lot of important parts of wonder woman missing in azzarello's book,there are many questions without answer,that this story is taking too long to get somewhere and that there is a lack of highlingth moments for wonder woman to come out and shine like a hero,why can't they understand that?.

#35 Edited by Hastalavista (361 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: Do you mean when she killed the serpent and the guys with it? Also when she killed the man who begged for a rest-in-peace? I don't read Batwoman so I don't know if killing is a common thing in there. I've heard that this title is about myths and monsters and that sort of of things. In stories about quests and defeating monsters, heroes do tend to kill. I am not comfortable with what WW has done but I tend to treat it as an elseworld story, one far away from civilization and closer to Odyssey.

#36 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

They are too strict. They don't want anything changed at all. I recently just saw people complaining about Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord saying it went against her message of peace. Well peace has to be fought for. Anyway, Diana made a split second decision and while it might of been a mistake it gave her development. I personally want to see Diana do more questionable things as long as it makes sense why she did it and has an impact on everyone. Another problem is that her some of her fans search for problems. I saw this woman complaining about Wonder Woman losing to a man and the she was talking about the inner meaning.... what the he**! Writers can't do anything interesting with her without getting a complaint from fans. I know that everyone will never be satisfied but this is the majority of her fans. I've seen people say that she used to never have a personality before and that she never made mistakes and that's why they could ever get into her stories. Of course some complaints are justified.

I couldn´t agree more. Whats worse is that because people complain about every last thing, when there is reason for genuine complaint, like Danny O´Neil, the current run and WW Odyessey, we haven´t got a leg to stand on, because DC are like what ever we do they´ll complain.

Any one who has a problem with Rucka run is crazy, same with Gail Simone. They stayed true to the character and developed her more than any writer since Perrez. Other runs have just been plain bad, but not cause they changed or didn´t change the character, just because they were bad.

Although I have to say I was put off Amazons Attack, but I recently started reading it, and was pleasantly surprised. The art was beautiful, the Amazons were portrayed as really powerful, the story was ok, it wasn´t the worse I´d ever read. I didn´t see the massive problem. As far as I can see its just because the Amazons were flawed that fans are pissed off. But the Amazons should be flawed. Not barbaric as in the current run, but certainly flawed. If Kryptonians can at times be portrayed as on the wrong side, why not Amazons? Anyway thats what I think. Good OP.

#37 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

People complaining over ww killing maxwell here, people complaining over supes killing zod there.... Face it people are gonna be pansies

#38 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5015 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman has fans?

#39 Posted by Superwondy (134 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by waezi2 (7138 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I like most of the changes. Like how the amazons reproduce and I loved the fact they got rid of invisible plane. I don't think her villians are gone there's just no need for them to show up in this current arc. I think her new 52 portrayal is awesome of course she isn't like the previous Diana she's just starting out give her time to develop and I think she could even be better. You bringing up this thing about zero feats. Does escaping hades not count as a feat. What I mean is what kind of feats are you looking for

@hastalavista: Yep,New 52 wonder woman just sucks, she was a killer,at least John'wonder woman is as bad as hell

Johns Wonder Woman is a brainless child who only cares about the next fight.

#42 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I like most of the changes. Like how the amazons reproduce and I loved the fact they got rid of invisible plane. I don't think her villians are gone there's just no need for them to show up in this current arc. I think her new 52 portrayal is awesome of course she isn't like the previous Diana she's just starting out give her time to develop and I think she could even be better. You bringing up this thing about zero feats. Does escaping hades not count as a feat. What I mean is what kind of feats are you looking for

@powerwoman said:

@hastalavista: Yep,New 52 wonder woman just sucks, she was a killer,at least John'wonder woman is as bad as hell

Johns Wonder Woman is a brainless child who only cares about the next fight.

ok,and about the feats we already talked about that,i want to see at least her pre 52 feats.

#43 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura:showings,the capabilities of a character.

#45 Edited by RulerOfThisUniverse (6272 posts) - - Show Bio

The big problem I have with Wonder Woman fans/fanboys (fangirls) in my experience is that a lot of them (that I've met. I'm not trying to start a war with this, and most WW fans probably don't do this, it's probably just a fanboy thing. Don't take it personally) interpret everything to be secretly sexist. Superman/Wonder Woman relationship= WW standing in the shadow of a man. Wonder Woman gets beaten by a man= a hidden statement about men being superior to women. Sometimes it just gets to be a bit much.

#46 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Oh that there have been plenty of those in her self title.

#47 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Oh that there have been plenty of those in her self title.

but i want to see her pre 52 capabilities.

#48 Posted by Wolverine08 (41069 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6272 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I prepared for that when I put this in my statement:

"That I've met. I'm not trying to start a war with this, and most WW fans probably don't do this, it's probably just a fanboy thing. Don't take it personally."

Ya think it'll be enough?

#50 Posted by Wolverine08 (41069 posts) - - Show Bio

@rulerofthisuniverse: No, that is not enough to quell the rage of Wonder Woman fans you have just evoked by speaking those blasphemous words. Prepare, for war.

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