Not A Fan of The Current Version of Wonder Woman?

#1 Edited by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

Are you not a fan of the current version of Wonder Woman? Would you like to see a more classic approach to the #1 female superhero ever? Then sign this petition asking DC Comics to publish a more classic version of Wonder Woman:

http://www.change.org/petitions/warner-brothers-dc-comics-restore-the-classic-wonder-woman-character-and-her-mission-of-peace

Please note: I am not the author of this petition nor do I know him personally. Also - this petition is not asking for Azzarello to be fired or his book to be cancelled. In theory, DC could keep publishing Azzarello's book while launching a 2nd solo title for Wonder Woman with a more classic approach.

#2 Edited by drgnx (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, if you want to read about a mission of piece, read a pacifist novel. At the end of the day, her mission of peace translates to fighting for peace and you know what they say about "fighting for peace"?

Well here is a hint; you know when Fighting for Peace is not an oxymoron?

When Fighting for Peace means leaving no one else to fight with!

(Granted Ken would probably fight with his sword or himself after...)

#3 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm down fore there to be a second title!

#4 Edited by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to see a 2nd title that focuses on the superheroic side of Diana's world rather than only the mythological side. I'd like to see her fight her non-deity rogues like the Cheetah, Giganta, Dr. Psycho, Silver Swan, Angle Man, Dr. Poison, Queen Clea, Kung, Baron Blitzkreig, and The Mask. The book could also be used to flesh out her more familiar supporting cast like Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Artemis(the Amazon), Nemesis, and Nubia.

#5 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (727 posts) - - Show Bio

You'd think DC would want to have their cake and eat it too, but they're not smart enough for that. Azzarello's run is the culmination of Dan Didio's plan to turn Wonder Woman into a 1950's B-movie about savage, man hating, Amazons. It started when he fired Rucka and greenlit Amazons Attack, it continued when he tied Gail's hands at every turn (No updated gods, no retconning AA, no Knockout as Genocide, etc.) and during the 600 issues. That's all he understands about the concept and he feels that's the only way to reel in the straight male fans he covets. He doesn't care that it destroys Wonder Woman's core, he wants to make money, but not from her core fans.

#6 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to see a 2nd title that focuses on the superheroic side of Diana's world rather than only the mythological side. I'd like to see her fight her non-deity rogues like the Cheetah, Giganta, Dr. Psycho, Silver Swan, Angle Man, Dr. Poison, Queen Clea, Kung, Baron Blitzkreig, and The Mask. The book could also be used to flesh out her more familiar supporting cast like Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Artemis(the Amazon), Nemesis, and Nubia.

We are kindred, sir.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/sensation-comics-revive-the-title-714082/#1

It started when he fired Rucka and greenlit Amazons Attack, it continued when he tied Gail's hands at every turn (No updated gods, no retconning AA, no Knockout as Genocide, etc.) and during the 600 issues.

Wow! Where can I find more information on these points, I had no idea.

#7 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (727 posts) - - Show Bio

You kinda had to be on CBR when Gail first started the Wonder Woman board there, but I'm pretty sure if you asked her about it on twitter or Jinxworld you'd get a reply.

#8 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpio_cassadine: Oh I see. you think those threads are gone or just somewhere on page 1 million? Maybe I can track them down.

#9 Edited by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

We're up to 333 signatures. That's over 50 new signs in under 5 days! :)

#10 Posted by brettjett (55 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually like AND approve of this current WW. I been paying attention to this Azzarello guy for months now. I know what he's up to. And he's doing a fine job.

The reasons for this WW/Marston expert to approve of Azz's WW is due to the facts that he:

1- Uses original Marston concepts...while skillfully inserting other incarnational elements in it without conflicting with the Marston concepts. Very much like my treatment of the modern WW in my movie screenplay.

2- He starts her out as imperfect, so as to attract more readers, make her more interesting, AND make it so that her road to being a better WW (close to the ideal that many wussy fans know her by) is a JOURNEY rather than taken for granted so easily. THAT is the way to go!

I could write a whole article on why EVERYONE should approve of this New WW. But my time is short right now.

#11 Posted by mpierce2690 (316 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd love a second Wonder Woman book, but I definitely don't want to stop Azzarello. Wonder Woman has never been better.

#12 Edited by darkman61288 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

Which current version do you mean? The one in her solo or the one in JL and Superman titles ( aka the one dating Superman)? Because those are two completely different takes on the character.

#13 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

The current version of WW in her own title could honestly be an entirely separate character, a new character altogether. It's kind of a cross btw WW and Sandman.

The gripe in the past, like Superman, was that no one could relate to WW. So, now her personal adventures seem to be only mythological and only one very long storyline.

Why did Paradise Island need to be so dirty and the Amazons such vile creatures?

Where does JLA WW fit in this book where her lasso is an afterthought, her only human connection is one human, her mission(if it exists) makes little to no sense as she is not really in Man's World, and the First Lady of comics shows little to no compassion for her sisters' fate which is a far cry from Marstson's original concept. How does this represent a great female icon?

If a writer has such a great idea for this current concept, why does that writer not give the world his new, original creation as opposed to selling it under a familiar name that already has market value?

#14 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@power_guy:

giganta and a few others need to be out of the count,because they are weak,for example giganta has the strenght but with diana's speed,giganta will never land a hit,so they have to make diana hold back or make mistakes to give giganta the chance to land a hit,so 2 options,or they give giganta an upgrade to make her able to keep up with diana's speed,or they leave her out of diana's comics.

i want to see diana fight cheetah and see cheetah showing more super strength and not only super speed,i want to see silver swan showing how powerful she really is with the power that ares gave her,i want to see clya as diana's equal in abilities,i want to see a male warrior with similar powers to diana's powers,i want to see the wonder side of wonder woman,it's time for a true a epic fight,it's time already.

#15 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (727 posts) - - Show Bio

I just signed, I was number 339 we need 160 more.

#16 Posted by Lvenger (19344 posts) - - Show Bio

This isn't an Azzarello counterpoint but a more practical issue with this petition. Even if you get the signatures, so what? DC editors aren't renowned for their listening to the fans so I have a feeling this petition will fall on deaf ears. In addition, Wonder Woman isn't the best selling book DC have. It's not even in the top 12 selling books each month. Hal Jordan's series sold 60000+ units last month but DC aren't giving him another series. Only Batman and Superman sell well enough for 2nd series. Ironically, if you want Wonder Woman to have a second series you need to support Azzarello's series otherwise there's a negligible chance of a second Wonder Woman series.

#17 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

Signing it.

Online
#18 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

This isn't an Azzarello counterpoint but a more practical issue with this petition. Even if you get the signatures, so what? DC editors aren't renowned for their listening to the fans so I have a feeling this petition will fall on deaf ears. In addition, Wonder Woman isn't the best selling book DC have. It's not even in the top 12 selling books each month. Hal Jordan's series sold 60000+ units last month but DC aren't giving him another series. Only Batman and Superman sell well enough for 2nd series. Ironically, if you want Wonder Woman to have a second series you need to support Azzarello's series otherwise there's a negligible chance of a second Wonder Woman series.

There's no way I can support Azzarello's run. I read issues 1 thru 6 and then gave him a 2nd chance by reading issue 14. I feel that he has completely disrespected the character of Wonder Woman and her world. Never have I had such an issue with a creator on a book. I will not pay for something I feel so strongly against.

#19 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

Never read Wonder Women before the New52 so my gripes with the book has more to do with the story-arcs and the character (specifically how she interacts with those around her) rather than how her character was portrayed before. So, no petition for me - I'll just read old Wonder Woman comics.

#20 Edited by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

We're now up to 435 signatures. That's over 100 new signatures in under a week!

#21 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there an opposing petition out there for those who enjoy the new WW?

#22 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

The only version of Wonder Woman that I really like is her DCAU appearances in Justice League.

In the comics she generally just beats up other heroes when they disagree with her and then is categorised as a feminist for some reason.

#23 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Is there an opposing petition out there for those who enjoy the new WW?

Did you actually read the petition? It doesn't call for Azzarello to be fired or the current book to be cancelled. It simply asks for DC to publish a more classic version of Wonder Woman, which, could be in the form of a 2nd solo book.

#24 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@power_guy said:

@fodigg said:

Is there an opposing petition out there for those who enjoy the new WW?

Did you actually read the petition? It doesn't call for Azzarello to be fired or the current book to be cancelled. It simply asks for DC to publish a more classic version of Wonder Woman, which, could be in the form of a 2nd solo book.

No I didn't read the petition, but I read the OP in full so I already understood that. I still don't want to see yet another split in the new 52 personality for WW. It's bad enough that she's already so different between JL and her own title.

EDIT: I would, however, have no objections if it was some sort of alt-Earth version. Unfortunately the Earth-2 WW is deceased and Fury is villainous, but they're already introducing a new Batman there. Perhaps an Earth-2 Donna Troy Wonder Woman in the vein of what you're calling for?

#25 Posted by Lvenger (19344 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no way I can support Azzarello's run. I read issues 1 thru 6 and then gave him a 2nd chance by reading issue 14. I feel that he has completely disrespected the character of Wonder Woman and her world. Never have I had such an issue with a creator on a book. I will not pay for something I feel so strongly against.

To be honest I have a similar feeling to Slott's Superior Spider-Man run so I understand the boat you're in.

Nonetheless, what the petition calls for is extremely unlikely if nigh impossible. Wonder Woman has never held a second series before to my recollection. The only characters who I can think of who have managed to generate another of their own series are Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine. There may be more but that's all I can think of. And the only reason they got more than one series to themselves is that they had strong sales on one of their titles. High sales on Action Comics and Detective Comics is what gave us Superman and Batman their own self titled series. Wonder Woman hasn't had that luxury. And the only way for her to get a second series is if the one title she does appear in gets high sales and critical acclaim. That's why I mentioned my ironic supporting Azzarello point.

Last month's issue of Wonder Woman reached sales of nearly 46,000 units. Above average by today's comic book sale standards but not enough to show she can support a second solo book. I'm afraid you're deluding yourself if you think DC will even consider giving Wonder Woman a second series based on her current, if indeed overall sales standards. It's just not going to happen.

#26 Edited by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@power_guy said:

There's no way I can support Azzarello's run. I read issues 1 thru 6 and then gave him a 2nd chance by reading issue 14. I feel that he has completely disrespected the character of Wonder Woman and her world. Never have I had such an issue with a creator on a book. I will not pay for something I feel so strongly against.

To be honest I have a similar feeling to Slott's Superior Spider-Man run so I understand the boat you're in.

Nonetheless, what the petition calls for is extremely unlikely if nigh impossible. Wonder Woman has never held a second series before to my recollection. The only characters who I can think of who have managed to generate another of their own series are Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine. There may be more but that's all I can think of. And the only reason they got more than one series to themselves is that they had strong sales on one of their titles. High sales on Action Comics and Detective Comics is what gave us Superman and Batman their own self titled series. Wonder Woman hasn't had that luxury. And the only way for her to get a second series is if the one title she does appear in gets high sales and critical acclaim. That's why I mentioned my ironic supporting Azzarello point.

Last month's issue of Wonder Woman reached sales of nearly 46,000 units. Above average by today's comic book sale standards but not enough to show she can support a second solo book. I'm afraid you're deluding yourself if you think DC will even consider giving Wonder Woman a second series based on her current, if indeed overall sales standards. It's just not going to happen.

I get what you're saying but if the petition gets enough signatures, DC may realize all of the fans it may be missing out on with the current book or may figure that some of the current book's readers would read BOTH books.

As for Wonder Woman never having a 2nd series, that's incorrect. She had both Wonder Woman and Sensation Comics in the Golden Age plus she appeared in both Wonder Woman and Adventure Comics in the late 70s.

#27 Edited by Lvenger (19344 posts) - - Show Bio

I get what you're saying but if the petition gets enough signatures, DC may realize all of the fans it may be missing out on with the current book or may figure that some of the current book's readers would read BOTH books.

As for Wonder Woman never having a 2nd series, that's incorrect. She had both Wonder Woman and Sensation Comics in the Golden Age plus she appeared in both Wonder Woman and Adventure Comics in the late 70s.

I too get what you're saying here. I'd love my favourite female superhero to get a second book. But as I mentioned before, there are numerous practical, financial and other factors to consider. And the fact DC's execs are massive tools.

Well I stand corrected. But sales for those two must have been much higher back several decades ago. The Golden Age and Silver Age comics had different standards for what was selling well and times have changed since then. Besides, Wonder Woman lacks the appeal she used to have decades ago sadly. DC can't market her that well to a general audience barring costumes for fancy dress parties. Not many people know her backstory and she's not in the public eye like Iron Man currently is. He's raking in Marvel money and attention yet Tony Stark is stuck to one solo series with guest appearances across the board. So personally I feel that if you want this petition to work, you need to change it to try and get more people to read Azzarello's series (not an option I guess), get people to drop Azzarello's series (again another problem as this would deprive people of Azzarello's run and would get staunch resistance from Azz fans) or petition to get the creative team changed (staunch resistance from Azz fans expected)

#28 Posted by TDK_1997 (14704 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm really enjoying the take of Azzarello on the character.He is making her more of an Amazon and a mythical warrior than a superhero.

#29 Edited by Lvenger (19344 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

I'm really enjoying the take of Azzarello on the character.He is making her more of an Amazon and a mythical warrior than a superhero.

Not gonna lie, that's probably part of the reason why people like the OP and some others who say they'll sign the petition don't like what Azzarello's doing with the character. They feel he's ignoring her non mythological supporting cast, villains and history. Can't please everyone though.

#30 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

All of the financial, practical and other factors to consider are things that are keeping Wonder Woman from greater development, as Lvenger mentioned.

Wonder Woman has proven to DC time and again that she is not a salable property. Even if this petition were to get 1000 signatures with a promise from each person to support the publication for the next decade, that will only mean around $3000 (or so) in monthly revenue for the company when it would cost them considerably more than that amount to produce the content.

For this petition to have substantial impact, it will need an excess of 50,000 signatures. This is a number that DC can apply to plausible monetary turnaround at the same time showing that there is a demand for the property. At this time the current Wonder Woman title is slipping in unit sales every month and only a unified effort on the part of Wonder Woman fans (lapsed & Current fans combined) will get DC/Warner to do anything about it.

While I try to remain positive about expanding Wonder Woman's presence in the realm of Comics, it's disheartening to read that even the staunchest of Wonder Woman fans will say "Yes I would love to see another Wonder Woman title, BUT WHO'S GOING TO BUY IT?". It's not just the company that's holding her down, it's the fandom that supports the industry as well. With those odds stacked against you the gravity of this up hill battle only get heavier.

#31 Edited by TDK_1997 (14704 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@tdk_1997 said:

I'm really enjoying the take of Azzarello on the character.He is making her more of an Amazon and a mythical warrior than a superhero.

Not gonna lie, that's probably part of the reason why people like the OP and some others who say they'll sign the petition don't like what Azzarello's doing with the character. They feel he's ignoring her non mythological supporting cast, villains and history. Can't please everyone though.

I know that some hardcore fans and other people don't like his take on Diana but for me it is interesting and new and I like the idea of not using most of her villains because most of them aren't interesting and cool for me.I would like to see Cheetah though.

#32 Edited by Lvenger (19344 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: Cheetah was in Justice League 13-14 in case you didn't hear. Unless you mean Cheetah appearing in Wonder Woman's own title

While I try to remain positive about expanding Wonder Woman's presence in the realm of Comics, it's disheartening to read that even the staunchest of Wonder Woman fans will say "Yes I would love to see another Wonder Woman title, BUT WHO'S GOING TO BUY IT?". It's not just the company that's holding her down, it's the fandom that supports the industry as well. With those odds stacked against you the gravity of this up hill battle only get heavier.

I know you don't mean anything offensive by it but this part is definitely inspired by my comments on here. I wouldn't call my grievances with Wonder Woman getting another title a way of keeping her status quo down. I'm just a tad realistic in where Wonder Woman stands. Plus I wouldn't call what Wonder Woman faces battling up a hill. More like trying to climb a mountain with no safety harness on. Currently, DC will see too much to lose and not enough to gain with giving Wonder Woman a second title. Those fans who can see that are what you may call holding her back. We may love the character but we're also realistic in how she stands and not seeing the worth in trying to drag something else out that is nigh impossible to achieve.

#33 Posted by TDK_1997 (14704 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I meant having Cheetah in Wonder Woman's ongoing book.I read her appearances in Justice League #13-14 and wasn't really thrilled.

#34 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

A large part of the reason that I don't like Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman is that he only focuses on the mythological elements of her world. No Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Nubia, Artemis, Julia & Vanessa, Nemesis, Cheetah, Giganta, Dr. Poison, Silver Swan, Angle Man, Queen Clea, Dr. Psycho, Diana Prince ID, the Invisible Jet, etc. I also don't care for the dark, perverse, and sexist elements of the run, especially the changes made to the Amazons.

#35 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:
I know you don't mean anything offensive by it but this part is definitely inspired by my comments on here.

Yes, that statement wasn't directed at you, it was a generalization about the attitude of the fans as well as the business angle of the corporation, and not inspired by your comment but trying to add another layer to the plight of moving Wonder Woman forward against the odds.

I have hundreds of posts in this forum, many of them pertaining to this topic, and I have seen members from RazzaTazz to Sara (Babs) Lima state those exact words (Who's gonna buy it?) when the point was brought up about another title for Wonder Woman.

I found your post to be very practical and realistic and I agree with you completely.

#36 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:
I know you don't mean anything offensive by it but this part is definitely inspired by my comments on here.

Yes, that statement wasn't directed at you, it was a generalization about the attitude of the fans as well as the business angle of the corporation, and not inspired by your comment but trying to add another layer to the plight of moving Wonder Woman forward against the odds.

I have hundreds of posts in this forum, many of them pertaining to this topic, and I have seen members from RazzaTazz to Sara (Babs) Lima state those exact words (Who's gonna buy it?) when the point was brought up about another title for Wonder Woman.

I found your post to be very practical and realistic and I agree with you completely.

Honestly, I think if a 2nd solo Wonder Woman book were to be published that had a more classic superhero approach, I think there are those who are reading Azzarello's book who would end up reading both book and there would be some that would drop Azz's book in favor of the new book as they are just reading his book as it is the only solo Wonder Woman book being published at the moment.

#37 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to see a 2nd title that focuses on the superheroic side of Diana's world rather than only the mythological side. I'd like to see her fight her non-deity rogues like the Cheetah, Giganta, Dr. Psycho, Silver Swan, Angle Man, Dr. Poison, Queen Clea, Kung, Baron Blitzkreig, and The Mask. The book could also be used to flesh out her more familiar supporting cast like Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Artemis(the Amazon), Nemesis, and Nubia.

This would be amazing to be honest.

#38 Edited by Lvenger (19344 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, that statement wasn't directed at you, it was a generalization about the attitude of the fans as well as the business angle of the corporation, and not inspired by your comment but trying to add another layer to the plight of moving Wonder Woman forward against the odds.

I have hundreds of posts in this forum, many of them pertaining to this topic, and I have seen members from RazzaTazz to Sara (Babs) Lima state those exact words (Who's gonna buy it?) when the point was brought up about another title for Wonder Woman.

I found your post to be very practical and realistic and I agree with you completely.

Thank you. It's nice for two opposing sides of the current Wonder Woman to be able to discuss things rationally for a change. Usually this topic comes with some bitterness for me. But one thing I have thought of that would suit classic WW fans criteria for a return of the Pre Flashpoint version of Wonder Woman is a digital series like the ones Superman and Batman have. As I said, getting a second New 52 WW series is unlikely given that it would conflict with the direction of the title. But if you have a digital series like Legends of the Dark Knight for Wonder Woman, that gives creators a chance to do a more classic take on Wonder Woman stories. I know it wouldn't be as big as another solo series for Wonder Woman but it might be more possible for DC to consider it.

#39 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I think if a 2nd solo Wonder Woman book were to be published that had a more classic superhero approach, I think there are those who are reading Azzarello's book who would end up reading both book and there would be some that would drop Azz's book in favor of the new book as they are just reading his book as it is the only solo Wonder Woman book being published at the moment.

I would like to see that too and I have said so on many occasions, the Sensation Comics : Revive the title? thread being the first, because I agree that there needs to be a Wonder Woman book with more of a superhero theme attached to it. This was also discussed briefly on the Comic Vine Podcast.

Though I would support Wonder Woman no matter the format, my preference would be that a new title would fall in line with the n52 incarnation because there are a lot of elements of Wonder Woman's story that could help to be resolved here. If DC were to choose to apply their production money to an Adventures of Superman or Legends of the Dark Knight style publication to Wonder Woman, I feel that would be counter productive to the development of her character in continuity.

@lvenger said:

Thank you. It's nice for two opposing sides of the current Wonder Woman to be able to discuss things rationally for a change. Usually this topic comes with some bitterness for me. But one thing I have thought of that would suit classic WW fans criteria for a return of the Pre Flashpoint version of Wonder Woman is a digital series like the ones Superman and Batman have. As I said, getting a second New 52 WW series is unlikely given that it would conflict with the direction of the title. But if you have a digital series like Legends of the Dark Knight for Wonder Woman, that gives creators a chance to do a more classic take on Wonder Woman stories. I know it wouldn't be as big as another solo series for Wonder Woman but it might be more possible for DC to consider it.

I know that there is creative plausibility for a multitude of of great Wonder Woman material. I want to see it all done and in the hands of readers.

With Wonder Woman's 75th birthday just a couple of years away, perhaps we'll be surprised by what comes of it.

#40 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

Bleeding Cool has mentioned the petition in their article about the new WW statue with a chainsaw:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/05/10/wonder-woman-with-a-chainsaw-and-a-petition-to-stop-this-kind-of-thing/

#41 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

Bleeding Cool has mentioned the petition in their article about the new WW statue with a chainsaw:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/05/10/wonder-woman-with-a-chainsaw-and-a-petition-to-stop-this-kind-of-thing/

I just saw that there! This should be great exposure for the cause :)

#42 Posted by bloggerboy (556 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Azzarello's Wonder Woman but I'm all for a 2nd title.

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