@somayareece: of course I will bring homosexuality into the discussion. It's my persoanl point of reference so it comes naturally. What you don't see is me whining about how LGBT people are portrayed in all of these shows. Because they are on the forefront portrayals will be shallow and inclusion is token rather than plot driving in most cases. Do you have issues with LGBT thoughts included here?

As to WW, how can you claim to have a clue if you've never read the comics? Credibility fail.

Here ya go. You're welcome.

http://shirtless-superheroes.blogspot.com/search/label/Superman

@scorpio_cassadine: well hello Man of Steel :)

Ironically, I find Catwoman to be hotter than Wonder Woman and she barely shows skin. Why does Wonder Woman have to show skin to prove anything? If she is this goddess of beauty like yall claim then she should be able to wear a garbage bag and look nice in it.

Nice try at changing the subject. lol

@somayareece: Catwoman peels herself out of skin tight leather in practically every issues. Showing skin and being sexualized are not the same thing.

WW has an iconic look that has nothing to do with sex appeal or beauty really. Hell she's one of the least sexual characters in comics regardless of her outfit. But I find it awesome that a woman in a bathing suit can pick up and go toe to toe with Superman without thinking anything of it. Sticking her in body armor and overloading her with warrior accoutrements implies that she needs such things to be the equal of a man.

If someone makes a better argument than you then yes, they won.

@csg_cl: Sure. No she doesn't because we wouldn't be sitting here arguing about her attire. What amazon you know wear a bathing suit in combat? Very unique. Fabok did a more accurate costume. Wonder Woman's costume always had to do with sex appeal and pleasure for the male audience. Carol Danvers doesn't have to wear a bathing suit to prove she can go toe to toe with the Hulk or Sentry.

@makhai: Things like that are subjective. I can make a strong argument about Character X looking better than Character Y but what is that going to prove? Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.

And who will be the judge of that?

@somayareece: I know WW is an Amazon who spent most of the last 70 years wearing a bathing suit in combat. Sure the suit was part of developing a character who had sex appeal, but that is more about the times in which she was created.

Carol Danvers wore a bathing suit with thigh highs for decades!

@csg_cl: How Wonder Woman is supposed to represent non-white-straight-male minorities better in a bathing suit, (re)designed by a white straight man for a white straight male demo, is beyond me and seems a mite shallow actually. That would make a bit more sense to me if Wonder Woman were an average looking female with orange peel skin or something that challenged all social impositions by showing what others wish she hid. A flawless goddess gracing the skies in revealing clothes though, doesn't strike as me defiant and non-conforming.

@csg_cl: Danvers

If your argument that Character X looks better than Character Y cannot be defeated, then you won... objectively.

Presently? Your own admission that he made a better argument than you and others that opposed his views.

@foamborn: start a poll if you really want validation ... Just don't expect it to go the way you think.

@csg_cl: We are suppose to take a woman wearing a patriotic themed get-up advocating for feminism seriously? Me and @foamborn should go to the white house and strip to our bra and panties then demand equality. The politicians would look at us like we're insane.

Are feminists against love of country and homeland now?

@foamborn: @SomayaReece: why not ... As I recall there were more than a few bras burned in the name of equal rights. Of course, you both want it to be as simple as a comic characters outfit.

@dernman: stupid auto correct

They're basing all this mumbo jumbo on the notion that there's a conspiracy going on to cover up beautiful women because we're all so ugly and full of insecurities which is not at all the truth and smacks of body shaming too...

@makhai: Don't be silly. I am making a logical point. Why don't all women just walk down the street wearing bathing suits while fighting for feminism?

@foamborn: Now that is outright ignorant of them. I don't have a problem with Wonder Woman showing skin at all. I don't think any woman should be forced to cover up. I just think some of the reasoning behind the topic at hand is absurb.

I would imagine for the same reasons that they feel someone else, fictional or real, should not be allowed to show her body in public.

I definitely didn't support the allegation that you're a bunch of middle-aged virgin men and neither did you reprehend those that called me ugly and fat

@makhai: There's a difference between freedom of expression and exploiting yourself as a...mhm, what is the word people love to use these days? Oh yeah, a THOT.

There is no small amount of hypocrisy in posts like this.

Of course the actual problem is that women tend to be a bit indiscriminately portrayed like sexed-up embodiments of male gaze, not that they show "an indecent amount of skin". That's just their reductive and simplistic interpretation of it.

So you have a problem with how women are portrayed? The attire is not really what you have a problem with?

The answer to that question is in the comments I made on this thread, I thought you read them when you barged in and declared me the loser

I did. It just seemed like you accidentally agreed with Frozen. And I never declared anything. You did when you said Frozen made better arguments. I just agreed with you. I didn't know a thread you post in is yours alone though. 'Barging in' is a little entitled, no?

They're just mad they lost with stupid arguments, think nothing of it. They didn't.

I was being sarcastic. I don't come into a conversation like this to win it, this mentality is why people stubbornly adhere to their opinions and start trying to outtalk each other, somewhere along the way we forget what the bone of contention even was and the debate turns into a barren pissing match.

I support artists. This artist, who had been hired by a publishing company for a particular comic title rendered a look I personally find attractive for Wonder Woman. Unless this artist claims they were coerced into it, who is anyone to claim otherwise? Does it not cross anyone's mind that insisting this new look is an infringement on the artist is in itself, a kind of blind pressuring onto the artist? Claiming they are "forced" into it is ridiculous. No one is forced to do anything. If a company directed one of its employees to take on a certain direction for the express purpose of making a product more profitable, then where is the problem? If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Trying to make this into some kind of social war or cry for "censorship" is ridiculous. The heights some of the arguments have gone to in this thread demonstrate this.

This look probably won't last and that's okay since it's just a garment out of many that Wonder Woman has worn over the years. I look forward to seeing it on panel, and I look forward to any future creations that will grace her figure in comics to come.

Arguments presented by holding up random industry leaders as proof is just stupid. Unless the artist says so, no one can claim they were forced into anything, and it's insulting to the artist people are insisting otherwise.

No one won anything in this thread, by the way. It's simply opinions expressed and neither holds weight against the other in their validity.

It depends on the people's own perspectives.

Dopest costume yet!!!!

Yet you happily ignore when males are also indiscriminately portrayed like sexed-up embodiments of the female gaze. This isn't a sexism, it's a visual arts choice that publishers of all comics tend to make. You continue your desperate campaign to "prove" that there is some overt sexist agenda in comic publishing, when if fact, it's a capitalist agenda ... face it attractive heroes sell comic books. @ms-lola said it very well above ... "If a company directed one of its employees to take on a certain direction for the express purpose of making a product more profitable, then where is the problem?"

not at all the point people are making. the point has always been that covering Diana up just for the sake of covering her up is stupid and flies in the face of the character's historic significance. Bad costume design aside, needlessly making her uniform modest smacks of pandering to a specific group of fans, especially when the artist who designed it is well known for his more liberal style. Covering up an icon known for wearing a bathing suit into battle is akin to slapping a wetsuit onto the Farrah Fawcett poster because her swimwear choices objectify women.

Are women objectified? everyday, and it's wrong. But this 1st world problem pales in comparison to what is happening to women all over the world. Burn your bra and march naked into school and you'll have my full support for your right to equality, choose to wear a burkha and I'll be right there supporting your choice. But don't go insisting that every other woman around you needs to conform to your personal threshold of "modesty".

@csg_cl: Very much a capitalist agenda. Sex sells. As does catering to a demographic which others might perceive as "pandering". This isn't a democracy, people. Companies are out to make a buck and they will sell what the people want, or experiment with different products to see who bites. We are simply consumers and that's it.

See I never said there was a sexist agenda going on, you're just putting words in my mouth, as you always do. In fact I think its mostly force of habit, some stubbornness and a severe lack of attention to detail. What I did say was that I think DC's severed Wonder Woman's connection to feminism which you interpreted as "DC's implementing a sexist agenda to scare away the women" which would be a downright stupid thing to do. I work for a design/advertising studio, I'm acquainted with the insides of the advertising industry, I think they need to improve the way they depict women to woo more women which is good for us and good for business. They probably know that too

you continue to play the victim ... I'll simply refer you back to all of the hundreds of posts you managed during your Charle's Soule is evil rants

Indeed ... this isn't anything new. Personally I don't like that DC seems to be catering to the conservative fans at the moment, but I wouldn't say there is anything "morally wrong" with what they are doing.

Well I'm sorry I didn't realize Soule ran DC comics.

It's funny how the people that like it we've never seen on the Wonder Woman board before.

For me, I really don't see it as a conservative move. Sincerely, I don't. I think the new design was maybe a more warrior centric attempt with all the shoulder thingamajiggees. Having Wonder Woman come across more warrior like in her outfit is kind of what I want because I really, really love how Donna looks. An uptotheneck shirt and long sleeves aren't really "covering up" so much as looking more like a uniform of sorts. Wearing a bathing suit never bothered me as a Wonder Woman fan, but then again, it was something I grew accustomed to, just like many other female characters who I've come to enjoy despite their sometimes silly get ups.

One thing Larsen did point out which I agree with is that an artist can make a plain outfit sexy and a sexy outfit... not sexy, haha. Outside of obvious outfits which have cut outs and bizarre designs which are clearly meant to titillate, it's more the posing and perspective of female characters on panel that have me rolling my eyes at times. I'm not floored by this new look, but it has me kinda digging it and wondering too how it will come across when Wonder Woman's duking it out with someone. Arguments about it not being feasible in battle using real world mechanics is just noise because frankly, there is no woman as bountifully bodacious as Woman Woman capable of keeping the girls in place with her older style in any battle. Lifting your arms past your shoulders would be enough to threaten a nipslip, haha.

I guess my point is being critical of the change is of course understandable. It's a change and there will be detractors. But pushing this idea of it being the beginning of the end of free speech and the heralding of potato sack garments ala burkas is stupid. It's all hyperbole, and all that's getting across is the volume of the screaming and not the words. Plus, the attempt of tying it to other criticisms in other media lessens the genuine message people may be trying to get across. Terms like SJWs, feminazi's (or even worse, attempting to portray feminists as the same) are thrown about like mini bombs, meant to rile up and bait and prevent sincere discussion. An usagainstthem mentality is tiresome and I resent being pulled into one side's take of things because the other is full of agenda driven mind setters. I'm on no one's side but my own, you know?

I love art, I love how comic characters are portrayed (usually) by various artists and yes, I won't pretend I believe there isn't a severe imbalance when it comes female/male visual depiction in comics because there is. This is a reflection of the consumer base, a lot of comic fans liked sexy ladies and there is nothing wrong with that. Pretending they aren't depicted sexually I scoff at, but whatever. What I am happy about is there appears to be an effort by the comic industry to cater to my demographic, and also, an effort to lessen my eye rolling when I turn the page and come literally face to ass with Elektra in a certain position on some roof top. It's not conservative of me to applaud and encourage that, in my opinion. Which, like yours, is what we base our likes and dislikes. Maybe this will stop you from buying the books, maybe this will make me buy even more books that seem to be taking this new direction. I do hope it brings in more fans, new fans, so that this industry can thrive.

TL;DR, I'm just brainvomiting. I don't subscribe to all or nothing thinking and I don't identify with one side over the other when it comes to things that are certainly subjective and open to a lot of interpretation. The noise at this point is what I take most offence at, if offence is even the correct word to use. (:P)

Sigh. We can never always agree on things. :D