A long time has passed since the inception of Wonder Woman. Designed to be a role model to girls whose mission in life is to spread peace, love, and equality... her character has had a rough patch in recent years trying to re-establish her role in comic books in the modern age. Part of the problem is that she is a very difficult character to write because her character is full of contradictions. She spreads peace and love by fighting and killing. She goes to save mankind by abandoning her sisterhood of Amazons. In older times, she was a powerful woman but was thwarted by bondage. She defies her ideals by simply trying to fulfill them. So how are we supposed to reconcile the contradictions in this character?

Writers of Wonder Woman have fallen into the same trap that many writers of Superman have fallen into. But who can blame them? Writing the perfect, ideal man and woman is a daunting task. Which in and of itself is the problem. Both of these characters can take a hint from Batman. Bruce Wayne isn't Batman, Clark Kent isn't Superman, and Diana isn't Wonder Woman. Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are ideals. Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, and Diana are simply trying their best to live up to those ideals as best they can. If we write them as already having completely embodied those ideals, then there are no stories to be told as they are perfect creatures. By emphasizing their humanity and their struggle to live up to those ideals, we can create more interesting characters and therefore more interesting stories.

An example of this could possibly be an approach to how to write a Wonder Woman/Superman team-up comic. In a way, the two characters parallel each other. Superman was designed to be the ideal for boys to look up to, while Wonder Woman was designed to be the ideal for girls to look up to. In their journeys together, we come to realize that these two characters aren't really Superman and Wonder Woman. They are flawed people like you and me who are striving to live up to an ideal. Their struggles in turn inspire us to find the Superman/Wonder Woman inside of ourselves. If you think about it, the best Superman stories are really about Clark Kent. The same needs to apply for Diana. Writers need to stop writing her as Wonder Woman and start writing her as Diana. Which brings us to the next question; Who is Diana?

We all know who Diana aspires to be... but who is she in the here and now? What are her character flaws? We all know she is a compassionate, strong, and empathetic woman. While the only flaw I can think of is that she is a bit bull-headed. What other character flaws can we give her to make her more human? Can we make her more stubborn to challenge her role as a diplomat? Does she have any insecurities? What does she like to do besides fighting? Can we give her some hobbies? A way to bond with and relate to normal people she meets (I assume most people she meets won't be able to bond over Amazon fighting techniques)? What are some character quirks of hers? This again boils down to my opinion that people have been writing Wonder Woman and not Diana. Since Wonder Woman is an ideal, it is subjective and changes from person to person. What one person views as ideal may not be what another person views as ideal. This is why she is so incredibly different in persona in her various comic book appearances. That's why we need to figure out who Diana is and then from there we can learn what her ideal Wonder Woman is. Then we can establish a real sense of character and therefore establish a sense of continuity with her depictions.

But even then, there are still issues that Wonder Woman will have to face. Since she is an icon that has been primarily based on an ideal and not a fully fleshed-out character, she has a lot of contradictions that are seemingly irreconcilable. For example, how can we tell a story of a diplomat sent out to man's world to spread peace and love when her primary method of solving problems has been physical force? If we make her a true diplomat and ambassador of peace then she is denying her warrior heritage and her love of battle. Conversely, if we make her a warrior who loves battle then how can we make her an ambassador of peace and love? Another example of the same problem is that she goes out to save mankind after leaving her sisterhood of Amazons behind (depending on the writer you can say she abandons the Amazons). Since the Amazons reflect feminist ideals of sisterhood between women, she is leaving behind her sisterhood to go save man. Yet if she were to stay with her Amazon sisters and ignore the problems of humanity then she isn't be true to her character as a hero. This again ties into the issue that people have been writing Wonder Woman and not Diana. The ideals that certain writers value more have made the character more and more contradictory. The solution is to write Diana and have her face these contradictions, struggle with them, and overcome them.

Even more so, Wonder Woman is decidedly lacking in her rogue's gallery. Yes, this is in part because she does use lethal force it is difficult to write a recurring character for her. Yet still, she needs a powerhouse villain who will elevate her stories to new heights. Yes, she does have a potential pool of new villains to draw from with the gods now but her mythological adventures so far have done little to advance her as a character in her own right. From what I have seen, the gods all make for good villains but not THE villain for Wonder Woman. The best villains challenge heroes beyond just the physical realm. She needs a villain who will challenge her emotionally, intellectually, or morally. What are some of your ideas of a good villain for Wonder Woman?

Beyond that, Wonder Woman still has some miscellaneous issues. One that I will list is that her new role as a demi-god really needs to be expanded upon and make it more integral to the character. It seems like the demi-god status was given to her simply for the importance boost. Her story in the New 52 would essentially be the same even if she were not a demi-god. Her mother still could have slept with Zeus and Hera still could have exacted revenge. Wonder Woman would still be protecting the baby and therefore be involved in all the same adventures. Wonder Woman's demi-god status needs to be given more focus. Whether she eventually decides that being a demi-god is a vital or irrelevant aspect of who she is will be up to the writer but I feel the subject needs to be given some attention.

Lastly, this is something I might like to see make a return but it isn't essential although I feel that if it is done correctly could enhance the storytelling (while conversely if it is done poorly could greatly diminish the storytelling). That is the return of her susceptibility to bondage. I know, I know. Just hear me out! Yes, the bondage has potential to be done REALLY poorly. But think about utilizing it in this manner: In the end, Wonder Woman always breaks free. The bondage really just represents shackles and restraints placed upon us by men, women, bosses, sexism, racism, homophobia, age, gender, etc. It really just represents how by harnessing our inner Wonder Women we can break free of these bonds. And if writers continue to expand Wonder Woman as not only a champion of feminism, but for race relations, gay rights, etc. then she becomes the symbol for fighting for equality. Of course it must be required that such moments of bondage not be drawn in a way to objectify Wonder Woman. But that is why it is a risk because I know that some artist out there would completely sexualize her.

Anyways, the purpose of this thread is to discuss how to make Wonder Woman a more compelling character. So please, share your thoughts and ideas!

tl;dr version//

Share some of your ideas of how to improve the Wonder Woman character, share your ideas for storylines, share ideas for potential villains... share share share!

Well thought out post. You'll probably get lynched for the bondage theory lol.

I've always liked Wonder Woman and could go on reading her comics as is, but I would like to see her stories lowered to an almost street level forum and ditch (I know blasphemy) the traditional costume all together. Jeans, a jacket, and t-shirt. Kinda like the movie Haywire. In fact not kinda, exactly like that. She could still occasional battle the Greek pantheon and be part of the JLA as Superman's number two lol, but I think street WW would do alot better then Xena Wonder Woman. Have Diana Prince be a member of the CIA or some black ops team. ( Play up how she has no problem killing bad guys. Complete opposite of Superman) Just my opinion though

Eh I figured. I actually was really against the bondage thing at first until a female friend of mine explained it to me like that. Then I was like... "Okay I can sort of buy into that."

I don't necessarily mind the whole "street-level" thing for Wonder Woman... I just wouldn't like to see it continue for a long time. It could be an interesting run for a year or less though. Not really sure I like the CIA or black ops idea though. Wonder Woman is a diplomatic ambassador... she can't be employed for the US government. And if they decided to say she wasn't an ambassador... I don't like her having superior officers tied to a governmental body.

blah blah blah blah blah blah. sorry you lost me when you brought up diana prince, i don´t know if you know the character at all.

Diana Prince is just an alias name. Would you prefer I had said Princess Diana instead the entire time instead of trying to give her a last name?

Anyways, if you don't have anything meaningful to contribute please don't post at all. It's a waste of my time to have to read your response and a waste of your time to type it. If you don't have any respect for my time at least have respect for your own time. A simple, polite statement would have sufficed suggesting I should perhaps change it to Princess Diana instead.

I don´t think you get my point. Making Diana a compelling character is the first flaw in this whole article. She´s already a compelling character and has been so since her inception.

Her mythology is deep and layered.

She doesn´t have the greatest rogues, but she´s got some pretty cool ones amongst some very very bad. But still there are alot to work with.

This concept about her being perfect is absolutely asonine. She and The Amazons are not perfect, maybe that was how the were first envisaged, but alot has gone into exploring many of the contradictions and imperfections in them. I believe so much more can be done as well.

The deal is wonder woman is an endlessly fascinating character who constantly has to get this stupid bumb rap because people don´t spend a second to think about her and how they could actually make her compelling. They spend all their time at DC saving all their best stuff for Superman and Batman stories instead of focusing on their whole roster of characters. WW isn´t the only one who suffer, just the worst of them. In my mind Wonder Woman is a far more interesting character than Batman or atleast equal, you just have to step past yourself and think about the story.

Imagine in this world, an Island turned up in the middle of the mediteranian sea, just out of know where, and we discovered its inhabitants were an all-female society that had created a utopia, free of war, poverty, violence and injustice. How would we react. Maybe some how it could be explained by them coming from a parallel earth. Another dimension, but the gods had hid them away on this paradise earth, but now they had melded the two earths together. I mean that just some simple broad strokes of how you could modernize the story and tell a fascinating satirical scifi story, with Wonder Woman as the central character.

The worse thing is this is obvious if one only took a few seconds to think about it.

DC is at fault, not the character. I mean I could sit here and write the same about Martian Manhunter, The Flash, Shazam. How to make them compelling characters? But they don´t need to be, they are, you just need to tell compelling stories of them. And you´re talking about New 52 wonder woman, which should be best forgotten. It is a waste of everyones time.

@jphulk26:

I disagree. If Wonder Woman truly was being written to fulfill her potential then she would be receiving her due accolades. Look at how many great stories Batman has that everybody knows and recognizes as classics. Wonder Woman doesn't get that same recognition. True, some of it is DC's fault, but I honestly feel they do really try to market her around. The problem is that nobody knows what to do with the character. And the reason for that is because she isn't being written as a fully fleshed out character.

Having a deep and layered mythology is great. But that is her background... that isn't her as a person.

There are some to work with but she doesn't have a truly defining foe. One where people can say, "Oh yeah I remember that story with XXX villain. It was a classic. There are a lot of good stories with that villain actually..." Whether that needs to come from developing her current villains more or introducing better ones (I think she needs new ones) is up for debate.

Ask non-Wonder Woman fans why she is boring, because she is written as nearly flawless. The same issue Superman faces at times too. Again, it is so much easier writing interesting stories with flawed characters than it is for perfect characters.

I disagree. Wonder Woman regularly gets star writers assigned to her and often receives some of the best art in the business. What is the problem? The writers are all assigned to her. None of the writers WANT to write Wonder Woman because most feel there isn't really a story they can tell for her. As a result, she is trapped in a circle of sub-par stories. How do you break this cycle? By making her character more interesting and fully-fleshed out. After making her a more fully realized character more writers will be able to find something in her that can lead to an amazing story. Hence why even though I'm not a fan of Azzarello's current work, I at least admire some of the risks he took. And you just said it yourself, "people don't spend a second to think about her and how they could actually make her compelling." That is the entire point of the thread. How can we make Wonder Woman compelling while staying true to her character? You have a different opinion on why she isn't compelling but it is a valid opinion regardless. You say she is already a compelling character while I say she has the potential to be compelling. Regardless, we both want the same thing... Better stories for Wonder Woman that are more compelling and push her character forward.

And again with your idea (while a good one), focuses on the world around Wonder Woman instead of Wonder Woman herself. My question is, how can you take that premises and make it take Wonder Woman to places she has never been before. We've gone over her origin a million times. Let's take her in a different direction and shake things up to really make Diana have to come face to face with who she is as a person. That's my complaint, I feel the stories are about Wonder Woman and not about Diana. I attribute that to the mindset that Diana IS Wonder Woman. If she IS Wonder Woman then she has already has reached the ideal. If she is trying to live up to the ideals of Wonder Woman while struggling with the real-world aspects of her humanity and sometimes find the two at odds, then that could be a great story.

Unfortunately, I can't claim to be familiar enough with those three characters to really give an honest analysis of their situation. And yes, I am talking about New 52 Wonder Woman because like it or not this is the version of Wonder Woman that comic book writers have to work with for now until whenever DC allows for a reboot. Which I hope will not be for a long time. We've gone over Diana's origin way to many times. I'd rather just suck it up and accept it as her background and figure out how to make this Diana interesting, relevant, and the star of a great comic book.

@itsdaveyj: Nice job defending yourself against that guy. Take it from me, he can be quite a pain in the whole "I know what's best for Wonder Woman" department. Whilst I do disagree with some aspects of your post such as the bondage thing and Diana not integrally being a compelling character already which I do find her to be, I really liked your post. Particularly your emphasis on the need for more stories about Diana herself rather than Wonder Woman or the mythology of her world. Batman and Superman have had plenty of stories that focus on the man behind the ideal and this is where we see what makes them tick. Similarly, Wonder Woman needs a story that strips her down to her base character and takes a look at her strengths, her flaws and how she deals with them. That way, writers can flesh out the character and write more compelling runs like Perez, Rucka, Simone and Azzarello have done.

You make some fair points but again I put it to you why is it that Superman and Batman, are DC´s only real recognized characters? I would say because only a small minority read comics. Writers are more interested in writing interesting Batman and Superman stories because they know they´re adding to this legacy that reaches way beyond the comic book medium. For all they know one day some of their panels or whole story arch will make it to film, or, when people start getting in to Superman because of the movie, they´ll look for graphic novels on the character, meaning they´ll probably find the most critically acclaimed stories. Why waste your good ideas and time thinking about improving Flashes mythology or Shazams? When writing Superman right can make you an instant comic superstar.

I don´t wish to go round and round arguing this, but I think Wonder Woman has a simple problem. No film, no animated series, no media. For a character that was so successfully adapted to television, that is really just unforgivable on DC and Warner Brothers part. The fact is you may not find her compelling, but I clearly do and many more will feel like me if they could see her in live-action (so long as its a good story)

As for bad guys, I think Ares is universally recognized even beyond comics as a cool character. So unless the ancient greeks, the gaming community and a so many into Greek Myth are wrong there is a perfectly sufficient foil in wonder woman´s rogues gallery to develop. My stance is, yes create new, but do so while developing the old ones. Because if every new writer comes on with a bright idea of a new villian they hope will stick, and the next writer comes and doesn´t even bother with it, ww will never have a clear and compelling foe. You think anyones gonna give a shit about the First Born when another writer comes on to Wonder Woman? I doubt it very much. Develop old and bring in new, it will work a lot better. This is why you need i´d say to the next writer develop The First Born, develop Alkyone, develop The Crow Children, develop Ares, develop Dr. Psycho and Deimos. That is how a character builds a definitive rogues gallery. Next step, do an animated show.

By the way can I just say one thing, with all due respect posting this kind of article on a Wonder woman forum, is bating people to say stupid stuff. To alot of people on this forum, this is quite insulting, why not put this up in a general DC discussion forum. Its like me going on Batman forum and writing an article, why Batman is overrated. Doesn´t make sense.

Really interesting OP. Personally, I find Azzarello's take on Wonder Woman extremely compelling. As a literary buff, I enjoy the storytelling. I think it comes down to preference. One basic rule for compelling characters is the backdrop of a large, consistent cast of characters. Your main character should be in conflict with others, their choices and interactions propelling the story. Whether or not Azzarello is succeeding is up to your taste, but he's doing pretty good at giving a foundation for future writers to work with.

I was always bit reluctant to follow Wonder Woman. Because --- as you mentioned --- she's portrayed as near flawless, indestructible, and unbeatable, she came off as one-dimensional. Thankfully, my opinion has changed, and I find her engaging and sympathetic.

To answer some of the questions, I think writers need to embrace Diana's heritage. She's an Amazon rooted in Ancient Greek culture who's entered Man's world, far different from her own. That is how I've always viewed her. Personally, I think it'd be strange to see her as a CIA agent, or anything reflecting a modernized Amazon. It's her Ancient Greek heritage that's always been attractive.

I love that you mentioned the contradictions Diana faces: a fierce warrior, but she values peace and equality. It certainly is an interesting dichotomy, but one that defines her character. I would encourage writers to flesh this out. How can we trust Wonder Woman as an ambassador for peace if she is slicing people down left and right? I'd love to see Diana struggle with this. Not only would it develop her character, it force readers and writers to explore the concept of Evil and Warfare. Are they inherently the same? When is it okay to take deadly force? Can you still maintain your warrior's integrity when it's in conflict with your ambassador's integrity? Is something always acceptable if it's for the greater good? What is the greater good, and who gets to decide that? Let Wonder Woman encounter such situations, let her fail, and let her be criticized.

That being said, I think she's going in a great direction in terms of character development, and I'm excited to see where she goes. I'm a loyalist now, so I'll follow her story no matter what.

@lvenger Haha thanks. I really only found his first post irritating. I don't mind people disagreeing with me but I do mind when people disagree with me disrespectfully. But that seems to have been resolved now. The bondage thing was just an idea. I'm more neutral in it where I can see it working and I can see it not working. So I just figured I'd put it out into the ether. And yeah, I agree. We need some good Diana stories!

@jphulk26 I say they are DC's main recognized characters because they have had some of the best writing (though Superman is really hit or miss IMO). If you have a good comic book, it's easier to take that story and make it a good movie, animated film, or television series. And I disagree that writers and writing Batman and Superman for that reason. I think they write them because they are fans. And when they are fans of the character their writing is usually more inspired. Most writers for Wonder Woman seem to be assigned to her rather than going to DC and saying, "Can I please write Wonder Woman? I have this terrific idea!" It just takes one writer to make something truly terrific for Wonder Woman to get the cogs turning in the minds of other writers. Inspire them to write inspired stories about her.

That is indeed a problem but one that in my opinion stems from a lack of interesting source material. It's not easy selling an audience the idea that Diana is a woman born of clay for example. That's probably part of the reason why Azzarello changed that origin in the New 52. I'm not saying there aren't great Wonder Woman stories already out there. I'm just saying there isn't a sizable enough well to draw from. Part of the problem with an extended animated series for Wonder Woman is that she doesn't have that big rogue's gallery. Can't make a great long-running series with only 3 or so decent villains.

Ares and Cheetah are her most recognizable villains but I wouldn't say they have really helped define the character. Writers have already tried developing these villains and while they have some interesting stories, none of them have provided that definitive Wonder Woman story. I agree that they should be developed more... but I would also like a villain that really has that instant villainous chemistry with Wonder Woman.

Well I don't mean to cause any sort of baiting. Wonder Woman is my favorite DC character. I don't mean any disrespect. I'm of the opinion that we should discuss these things to figure out what really are the problems rather than to not say anything in fear of stirring the pot. That's part of why I made the first post so long and tried my best to make it fair... most baiting posts are a short paragraph or two long. So far I haven't seen anybody here post anything chastising me for wanting to discuss this intelligently.

@whinehaus I agree that Azzarello is doing a fair job establishing a good supporting cast. I however do agree with the criticism that Wonder Woman doesn't feel like the star of her own book. The problem with fleshing out her mythological origins so deeply first is that it is a cut-off realm of the DC universe. By developing her story in "the real world" it gives her actions a greater impact on the overall DC universe. Or Azzarello could make the gods have a deeper relationship with humanity and that could solve the problem too. I'd just like more integration.

I feel that her contradictory nature is a major aspect of her character that nobody is focusing on. Feels like such a missed opportunity. Sadly I don't think that it will be touched on anytime soon (in her main title at least) since Azzarello is off in his own corner of the DC universe. Sure he can touch on some aspects of it, but I think for the greater narrative as a whole to work it would need to take place in the main parts of the DC universe.

That said, I do like what Azzarello is doing... and I was completely on board for a year but it is simply taking far too long to get to the heart of the story. I realize that he needed to go back and re-establish everything with her but I definitely feel like he needs to raise the stakes very soon. Another problem is that with such a long story arc it doesn't allow for new readers to jump in easily. And that is a major problem Wonder Woman faces right now. She needs those new readers.

There are some good points made in the opening of this thread. I have to disagree with the Diana Prince. Diana has enough personality and background to explore without a secret identity. Who did she meet growing up? was there love? What does she do in her down time? How does she support her cause when she is not fighting? I want to know who Diana is and what kind of life she led with Steve Trevor and leads now without him. Diana Prince does not help with those questions. She adds an unnecessary complication.

Diana has always stood apart from Bruce who needs a secret identity to have the freedom to operate while still being the person he was from birth. She stands apart from Superman who was raised as a human.

The best thing that happened was Diana's rebirth as herself, the embodiment of truth that does not hide behind a lie each and every day.

The last time Diana Prince was used right before new 52, it was just Diana's cover to work in the government as an agent. Her secret identity was just a second superhero gig. The excuse is Diana Prince will teach her to be human, but Diana Prince is always still very far and removed from being human.

Name three amazing Diana Prince moments?

Diana/Wonder Woman/Princess is already an interesting and very complex character. She needs a writer capable of exploring more than just a warrior on the same endless mission and displaying her many facets in multiple adventures that she can close as well as her peers do.

the problem with Wonder Woman is this right here.

Everyone keeps trying to reinvent her, oppose to building upon what has been laid out

She'll get rebooted again.

@itsdaveyj:who says she hasn't flaws?,she is naive sometimes,she also loses patience and act hastily.

she struggles with her duty as a hero and her beliefs,she struggles to understand how can she try to protect humans from evil when she also has to protec humans from themselves,how she protects humans,when she also has to protect the world from humans,she struggles to understand how she often has to fight the once she wants to protect,because the self-destructive nature of humans confuses her,makes her doubt,and she often questions herself about if what she does is right or wrong,she always suffers because her beliefs in love and peace contradict with the violence,lies and distrust of the man's world,which makes her vision of a better world a failure.

she can't establish a real relationship with someone because she doesn't want them to be hurt because of her and because she is always divided between her duty as a hero,her duty as an amazon and her responsabilities with the gods,she also struggles with the amazons point of view about the man's world,she tries to unite both worlds somehow but fail,to the point that sometimes even the amazons see her as a stranger,and because of that,sometime she wishes to be human,but she never gives up and keeps on trying to make a different,even if she has to sacrifice her own hapiness.

so i think there are some things that people can relate.

the problem is quite simple,some writers keep trying to reinvent her,oppose to building upon what has been laid out ,Any writer who says there something complex about writing a good wonder woman story has completely lost the plot. (No pun intended)

Stop trying to write for an audience and write the character cause she´s special to you and YOU relate to her story. That simple. Marstons character was perfect. Perez made her even better. Simone, Luke and Rucka made her fricking badass. Go back to there work, write that character and stop focusing on her and start focusing on her bad guys and her original supporting cast. A general rule of comics if you want old readers to love new stories as well as new ones, unless a story is stupid beyond repair, do not subtract, add to it.

So lets break down Wonder Womans story.

1. Amazons of the ancient world are exploited and frequently attempted to be conquered by men.

I like that intriguing.

2. Hercules is either tricked by Ares or he himself captures the Amazon queen or the whole Amazons. Forcing his barbaric will upon them.

Thats dark, cynical, actually has some very mature and adult themes. I´m not seeing a problem so far.

3. The Amazons escape and as recompense for their loyalty to the gods, they are given an island away from mans world where they can live in peace. They are granted immortality by the Gods.

Makes sense in a fantasy kind of way! I mean hey if people can buy into Lord of the rings, whats the problem here.

4. The Amazons make there home in to a virtues monarchy under the leadership of Queen Hippolyta.

Nice. So now we have an all female society. What might that be an interesting set up to explore gender themes, as well as use this as a platform to critique the notion of Utopia or in fact as mirror world to satirize the world we live in or both. Choose your poison.

5. The Amazons nature as women make them desire a child. Hippolyta is granted a very special child by the Gods. A child gifted with many blessing, so that all the Amazons will come to love her and it may quell their aching for a child.

Again an intelligent person should see lots to work with here.

6. The Amazons raise the child to be virtuous and a great warrior, however she who has never seen mans world is curious about it and doesn´t harbor the same prejudice towards it as her sisters.

Nice character, great bot of conflict. And notice the story isn´t man hating, as this child shows that with out the prejudice of these bad experiences you can be open minded.

7. The child who has now lived for thousands of years now feels inside that she is destined for more than this tiny island, however her mother Hippolyta, whose is prejudice against the world of Man and doesn´t want to lose her only daughter will not let go.

Parental conflict. Something we all can relate to, we can´t let our children be free, we don´t want them to grow up, but we children know the only way we can fulfill our destinies our dreams is to sometimes disobey our parents. RELATABLE.

8. Destiny arrives when secret service pilot Steve Trevor lands on the Island. Now again depending on your interpretation, Diana can take him back to be Ambassador of Mans World, or to discover what forces revealed her Island to the rest of the world or to fight Ares.

Perfect setup iconic, multiple themes to work from, so many angles to take and explore as demonstrated.

9. And we finish Diana wins the right to take Steve back to mans world against her mothers wishes, by winning a tournament proving she is the most capable Amazon warrior; however on entering mans world she finds her self a fish out of water. Not understanding its violence, but also seeing it and its peoples inherent capacity for good. Thus she uses her gifts and warrior skills to fight the forces of evil in the world.

9 Simple steps to great Wonder Woman story.

writters that don't know how to writte her is because they are lazy and don't look at the core of the character,to have a good wonder woman story you need to follow the standard.

1)amazons,the perfect world ruled by women where peace and love predominate,the utopia that the amazons represent,and diana ralizing that even amazon world isn't perfect and foghts with the prejudice that her sisters have against men.

2)the gods and their blessings to wonder woman.

3)diana is a pure soul,compassionate, kind and protective as a mother and also strong,independent,wise and fearless as a warrior.

4)diana's nature,her ability to open the heart of other people,her morals,what she stands for,the way she treats everyone even her villans,without prejudice,and the way her kind heart changes the lives of the people around her,even her villans.

5)diana's supporting cast,vanessa,julia,steve,etta,and how they get involve in diana's mission and try to help her even thought they are just mortals,showing that some humans are willing to go beyond their limits tryng to make a difference in this world,even thought they are vulnerable,they prove to be role models,that you don't even need powers to try to do siomething for this world.

6)diana's villans,they represent wonder woman's antithesis,ares is war,violence and obsessed with having total control. ,cheetah=hate,jealousy,contempt for life and power ambiccion,silver swan=lack of self-esteem,frustration and anger.

dr psycho=small man complex,loneliness,sadness and obsessed with finding someone for him to never be alone,his obsetion with diana.

circe=ego,evil,superiority complex and vindictive.

her villans not only have a lot of power,but they represent wonder woman's antithesis.

if you follow this standard,you have a great wonder woman's story,like perez and ruka runs,take note azzarello.

@gokuwarrior:

Very well written. Great points supported by meaty material and clear thoughts.

@sinisteri:thank you.

THANKYOU.

By the way wonder woman has more than enough stories to fill out 3 season animated show. perrez made a bit edgier could work (like animated film), then go off ruck and simone. sorry no excuse. plus batman and superman got serials way before they had loads of great stories. face it diana´s treated as such cause she´s a woman. lets just call a spade a spade. Another thing that you must understand is general audiences like wonder woman and respond to her better than comic nerds. Its the truth. Her comic not selling says nothing about how she would do in general audiences. In fact if you go by evidence 70s show, animated film and her appearances in Justice League, general audiences, especially girls absolutely love her. By the way a few episodes of Justice League were taken from wonder woman comics, so clearly there is material there that can be easily adapted.

And just to finish obviously pre-new 52 and new 52 wonder woman appeal to people, the evidence is all around you. This post should be "How can we make wonder woman appeal to me" if you were being honest.

@sinisteri:

I think you misunderstood. I used the name Diana Prince not to refer to her alter ego, but as her "name" so to say outside of Themyscira. I use it (perhaps incorrectly) interchangeable with Princess Diana at times. Sorry for causing the confusion. What I was really saying is we need more stories about Diana herself. The woman at the core of Wonder Woman.

@blkson

When did I say I wanted to reinvent her? The entire point of my post is that we need to develop Diana more. Not change her.

@jphulk26

Once again, please don't make statements based on the assumption that I don't find Wonder Woman appealing. Why else would I be trying to figure out how to write better stories for her? I'm saying, "How can we write better stories for Diana to flesh her out more to make her more compelling to wider audiences." As it is, she sells nowhere near where she should be selling and part of that problem is that as she currently is written she doesn't seem to have that broad appeal. I'm suggesting that we can broaden her appeal and make her more appealing to the general population by writing stories that flesh out Diana more.

@gokuwarrior

Nice post. I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I would like to point out that many of the stories you have noted tend to have the environment dictating Wonder Woman's response. I'd like to see more stories set into motion because of inner conflict within Wonder Woman. Hence my point once again, more Diana stories and less Wonder Woman stories. The current run has been continuing a Wonder Woman story for quite a long time now. It's time for a break to examine Diana. As a side note however, I do think it is a bit naive for us all to say that the writers are all being lazy and whatnot. I think the issue is that the writers have a hard time getting inspired to write Wonder Woman stories and I feel that part of it is because we need more stories to strip down the character to her core to look at her as a person. Sure, her core character may be obvious to many long-time Wonder Woman fans but you have to remember that most writers bounce from book to book and many simply get assigned to write the character. Not to mention that while a strong sense of character may have developed over decades of Wonder Woman material, new readers won't have that understanding. They can only see what is presented to them and there hasn't been any recent character work done on Wonder Woman for newer audiences to discover her as a person.

I disagree with your premise. I think she's better defined as a fish out of water character. She's a warrior princess from another era, she shouldn't feel fully at home in the Diana Prince personality, unlike Clark who should be equally Clark and Kal El, which together make Superman.

Gah okay I'm changing the first post. My fault for saying Diana Prince instead of just Diana. It seems to keep getting misinterpreted. Maybe I'll change the title too so it doesn't offend. What would be a more appropriate title... "Making Wonder Woman More Compelling to Wider Audiences"?

@fodigg

That's not what I meant. Please look at my response above. Sorry for the confusion.

@gambler said:

Well thought out post. You'll probably get lynched for the bondage theory lol.

I've always liked Wonder Woman and could go on reading her comics as is, but I would like to see her stories lowered to an almost street level forum and ditch (I know blasphemy) the traditional costume all together. Jeans, a jacket, and t-shirt. Kinda like the movie Haywire. In fact not kinda, exactly like that. She could still occasional battle the Greek pantheon and be part of the JLA as Superman's number two lol, but I think street WW would do alot better then Xena Wonder Woman. Have Diana Prince be a member of the CIA or some black ops team. ( Play up how she has no problem killing bad guys. Complete opposite of Superman) Just my opinion though

That would actually be awesome! Kind of like being a secret agent for ARGUS on the side whilst taking on the big bads with the Justice League. It would kind of fit because she could help ARGUS with instances that normal field agents couldn't and considering her stature as a warrior, she wouldn't have much of a problem dispatching enemies or high value targets as other heroes would, hence why she would be dwell in secrecy, unknown to all except for the highest level of ARGUS.

@deranged_midget:

@deranged_midget said:

@gambler said:

Well thought out post. You'll probably get lynched for the bondage theory lol.

I've always liked Wonder Woman and could go on reading her comics as is, but I would like to see her stories lowered to an almost street level forum and ditch (I know blasphemy) the traditional costume all together. Jeans, a jacket, and t-shirt. Kinda like the movie Haywire. In fact not kinda, exactly like that. She could still occasional battle the Greek pantheon and be part of the JLA as Superman's number two lol, but I think street WW would do alot better then Xena Wonder Woman. Have Diana Prince be a member of the CIA or some black ops team. ( Play up how she has no problem killing bad guys. Complete opposite of Superman) Just my opinion though

That would actually be awesome! Kind of like being a secret agent for ARGUS on the side whilst taking on the big bads with the Justice League. It would kind of fit because she could help ARGUS with instances that normal field agents couldn't and considering her stature as a warrior, she wouldn't have much of a problem dispatching enemies or high value targets as other heroes would, hence why she would be dwell in secrecy, unknown to all except for the highest level of ARGUS.

Even this idea would appeal to alot of people. But for me wonder woman should never have been in the army, cia or anything other military arm of mans world. doesn´t exactly ring peace. she also should not kill at all really. Rucka tried to show she absolutely had to, but he opened a mine field of people just misinterpreting that act. He was just trying to show a realist side to Diana, not that she´s a homocidal maniac with no conscience about killing. she should be diplomat and ambassador of Themyscira. That´s it. She doesn´t need a secret identity as she doesn´t lie which a secret identity conflicts with. Rucka got it right. But again, just my opinion.

Sorry, I think part of the difficulty is that you're pretty long-winded, so it's harder to locate your core thesis. :) Which reply should I be looking at? Oh, and it wasn't the identity itself necessarily that I objected to, but rather the implication that she should be more grounded in the modern world.

I just noticed you were looking for us to post our own perspectives on the character. I'll just cross-post from another thread regarding my ideal WW archetype:

Oh, and also from another one:

I'm glad to see those two are mostly consistent at least.

@itsdaveyj:

Gotcha and agree.

Just miss her distinctive voice and perspective before she was turned into a present day Red Sonja, sword and all.

Always thought it was fascinating that she could handle any opponent at any time with just a tiara, bracelets and a magic lasso along with her strength and intelligence. That is a wonder compared to just another Greek soldier good with a blade.

@sinisteri

I agree. It causes me a lot of confusion when people downplay her combat prowess. Let's see Batman deflect bullets with bracelets.

@fodigg

Hahahaha I apologize. This is the internet... I should've known to make it short and concise. I do think that she needs to be more grounded in the real world though. It's difficult to pose as an ambassador of peace or a runaway as you say, when you are spending half your time fighting gods being fairly disconnected from "reality". I'm not saying she should give up that aspect of herself, but I just think it's time for a shift in perspective for a while. To freshen things up.

I really like what you said about the "modern" world instead of "man's" world. I personally would like to see a little bit less of the "all men are bad" archetypes that sometimes come up in Wonder Woman media. That is a great way to change things that will still allow her to address issues based on sex and gender while still not playing the blame game. This was a quick thought that popped into my head one day... It could've been interesting to see Steve Trevor as a gay character. That way when he crashes and everything... he's not all like "Ooo babes" and it might've caused the Amazons to have to reconsider some things.

I think something I would like to see that would make her more grounded are short simple things... like seeing her desire to help others by stopping at a halfway home for battered women or something. One of the unique aspects about the way Wonder Woman's story is set up is that it is a perfect avenue for social commentary. The problem is that nobody wants to utilize that in fear of causing controversy. The whole point of us seeing Wonder Woman leaving a perfect society and going into our world is to make us examine our faults.

@fodigg: That's not too bad an idea for another take on Diana you know. But her conflicting warrior and diplomatic natures present a complex dichotomy that can work really well if it's done in the right. But I like the idea of Wonder Woman being more pragmatic to counter Superman's idealism and Batman's cynicism along with her detachment from Man's World and the gods to criticise and evaluate both.

@itsdaveyj:wonder woman doesn't have a lack of flaws,i named you some of her flaws,just because her flaws aren't batman type of flaws doesn't change the fact that they are still flaws,her backround is surrounded my mythology,some of her flaws will be related to her trying to adapt to the man world,i don't see a problem with her character,she has the backround and flaws to create good stories and runs like perez,ruka and simone proved that,writters need to use what has been established about her character like perez,ruka and simone did,and stop trying to reinvent her or change what doesn't need to be changed.

I wouldn't mind a gay Steve Trevor, that'd be an interesting play on the typical sapphic themes of most amazonian stories. I do agree that she should be grounded in her approach to problem solving if not her identity.

Thanks! I agree, I think it will help establish her as more unique among the trinity without making her the "bloodthirsty one" (e.g., Kingdom Come).

but why take away her being a warrior? I think Rucka got his head around the concept. he saw Diana more as a warrior priestess. which is very unique and different from supes and bats. infacct I would say her warrior/diplomat dichotomy is the most interesting aspect of the character and nothing like batman or supes. it distinguishes her completely. I agree about her being optomistic but pragmatic. but ultimately what does that mean? it doesn´t do that much to seperate her. where as her want for peace, even if it means putting her hands out to her enemies is very unique. Bats, is more about vigilantism and justice, in that he is willing to use the instruments of his enemies against them. superman is idealistic, but still he´s about protecting the vunerable against those corrupted by great power and not giving up the good fight no matter how dark thew world seems. wonder woman however has a more curious mythology in which she is more about saving us from our own basest impulses and showing us the better side of our own nature. all the monsters she fights whether it be the nazis or ares,represent the darkest impulses of our own souls. batman fights villains are psychopaths, mad, no longer operating on the same level of sanity as normal humanbeings. The Joker doesn´t operate like a normal person, he´s a bad egg, a rotten soul, who torments "the innocent". More akin to a serial killer. People are fascinated by those types because ultimately we don´t understand their motivation. Superman on the otherhand is a benevolant God saving, a one in a million because he was raised as human and therefore sees the good in us. Just like Batman is protecting his parents over and over again. So, is superman. He sees the kindeness of the Kents and he projects that on all humans, and therefore when we are threatened by forces far beyond our capacity to fight, he fights for us. It is that story of how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly. Imagine, some how a human saw all the good in ants and therefore goes around stopping other humans from trampaling on them. That is superman in a nutshell, and why he´s so compelling a character. All other beings on his level such as Lex Luthor (for his genius), braniac (god like knowledge), Darkseid (strength and immense power), all of them are corrupted by it, but superman somehow isn´t. wonder woman on the other hand faces a demon in-between that. the demonic forces with in everyone. her fight is not against aliens far corrupted by their own power, or, psychopaths who have divorced themselves from humanity due to some childhood tragedy. her greatest foes represent some instinct or impulse that pervades humanity as a whole. are impuulses to destroy, to hate, to subjagate, to be jealous or fearful, to be prejudice. that is why she fights nazis, gods of war, or villains generally driven by wanting to spread, promote and instigate in us the most terrible destructive impulses to be found. she stops us from warring, she tackles issues of inequality, and promotes understanding rather than discord. All 3 interestingly reflect the parental conflict with-in. Batman tries to avenge his parents symbolically, by protecting the streets from living nightmares. clark attempts to symbolically protect his parents, by shielding the vulnerable from those much more powerful. and Diana hopes to defend Hippolyta, by ridding the world of the suffering, inequality and conflict that drove hippolyta and the amazons into exhile. the trinity are really perfect. people have to just think about it. I´m amazed it was a coincidence that they fit so well together. wonder woman´s mythology is every bit the equal to superman and batman´s.

This thread reminds me that WW never had to prove she was an Amazon or a warrior until recently. She just was, and those elements were part of her instead of driving her.

I would love to get back to that.

She was independent. She didn't need to learn the art of war or prove to Ares she is a warrior.

She naturally stood between Amazons and the modern world. And that conflict drove story for decades.

That is WW

It's only in grittier modern comics that warrior = blood knight to some writers, hence the issue.

Perhaps if they spent less time on how busty and curvy they can make her and more on who she is we could get a lot out of her character story wise.

as i said before,who says she hasn't flaws?,she is naive sometimes,she also loses patience and act hastily.

she struggles with her duty as a hero and her beliefs,she struggles to understand how can she try to protect humans from evil when she also has to protec humans from themselves,how she protects humans,when she also has to protect the world from humans,she struggles to understand how she often has to fight the once she wants to protect,because the self-destructive nature of humans confuses her,makes her doubt,and she often questions herself about if what she does is right or wrong,she always suffers because her beliefs in love and peace contradict with the violence,lies and distrust of the man's world,which makes her vision of a better world a failure.

she can't establish a real relationship with someone because she doesn't want them to be hurt because of her and because she is always divided between her duty as a hero,her duty as an amazon and her responsabilities with the gods,she also struggles with the amazons point of view about the man's world,she tries to unite both worlds somehow but fail,to the point that sometimes even the amazons see her as a stranger,and because of that,sometime she wishes to be human,but she never gives up and keeps on trying to make a different,even if she has to sacrifice her own hapiness.

so i think there are some things that people can relate.

the problem is quite simple,some writers keep trying to reinvent her,oppose to building upon what has been laid out ,Any writer who says there something complex about writing a good wonder woman story has completely lost the plot. (No pun intended)

Stop trying to write for an audience and write the character cause she´s special to you and YOU relate to her story. That simple. Marstons character was perfect. Perez made her even better. Simone, Luke and Rucka made her fricking badass. Go back to there work, write that character and stop focusing on her and start focusing on her bad guys and her original supporting cast. A general rule of comics if you want old readers to love new stories as well as new ones, unless a story is stupid beyond repair, do not subtract, add to it.

So lets break down Wonder Womans story.

1. Amazons of the ancient world are exploited and frequently attempted to be conquered by men.

I like that intriguing.

2. Hercules is either tricked by Ares or he himself captures the Amazon queen or the whole Amazons. Forcing his barbaric will upon them.

Thats dark, cynical, actually has some very mature and adult themes. I´m not seeing a problem so far.

3. The Amazons escape and as recompense for their loyalty to the gods, they are given an island away from mans world where they can live in peace. They are granted immortality by the Gods.

Makes sense in a fantasy kind of way! I mean hey if people can buy into Lord of the rings, whats the problem here.

4. The Amazons make there home in to a virtues monarchy under the leadership of Queen Hippolyta.

Nice. So now we have an all female society. What might that be an interesting set up to explore gender themes, as well as use this as a platform to critique the notion of Utopia or in fact as mirror world to satirize the world we live in or both. Choose your poison.

5. The Amazons nature as women make them desire a child. Hippolyta is granted a very special child by the Gods. A child gifted with many blessing, so that all the Amazons will come to love her and it may quell their aching for a child.

Again an intelligent person should see lots to work with here.

6. The Amazons raise the child to be virtuous and a great warrior, however she who has never seen mans world is curious about it and doesn´t harbor the same prejudice towards it as her sisters.

Nice character, great bot of conflict. And notice the story isn´t man hating, as this child shows that with out the prejudice of these bad experiences you can be open minded.

7. The child who has now lived for thousands of years now feels inside that she is destined for more than this tiny island, however her mother Hippolyta, whose is prejudice against the world of Man and doesn´t want to lose her only daughter will not let go.

Parental conflict. Something we all can relate to, we can´t let our children be free, we don´t want them to grow up, but we children know the only way we can fulfill our destinies our dreams is to sometimes disobey our parents. RELATABLE.

8. Destiny arrives when secret service pilot Steve Trevor lands on the Island. Now again depending on your interpretation, Diana can take him back to be Ambassador of Mans World, or to discover what forces revealed her Island to the rest of the world or to fight Ares.

Perfect setup iconic, multiple themes to work from, so many angles to take and explore as demonstrated.

9. And we finish Diana wins the right to take Steve back to mans world against her mothers wishes, by winning a tournament proving she is the most capable Amazon warrior; however on entering mans world she finds her self a fish out of water. Not understanding its violence, but also seeing it and its peoples inherent capacity for good. Thus she uses her gifts and warrior skills to fight the forces of evil in the world.

9 Simple steps to great Wonder Woman story.

writters that don't know how to writte her is because they are lazy and don't look at the core of the character,to have a good wonder woman story you need to follow the standard.

1)amazons,the perfect world ruled by women where peace and love predominate,the utopia that the amazons represent,and diana ralizing that even amazon world isn't perfect and foghts with the prejudice that her sisters have against men.

2)the gods and their blessings to wonder woman.

3)diana is a pure soul,compassionate, kind and protective as a mother and also strong,independent,wise and fearless as a warrior.

4)diana's nature,her ability to open the heart of other people,her morals,what she stands for,the way she treats everyone even her villans,without prejudice,and the way her kind heart changes the lives of the people around her,even her villans.

5)diana's supporting cast,vanessa,julia,steve,etta,and how they get involve in diana's mission and try to help her even thought they are just mortals,showing that some humans are willing to go beyond their limits tryng to make a difference in this world,even thought they are vulnerable,they prove to be role models,that you don't even need powers to try to do siomething for this world.

6)diana's villans,they represent wonder woman's antithesis,ares is war,violence and obsessed with having total control. ,cheetah=hate,jealousy,contempt for life and power ambiccion,silver swan=lack of self-esteem,frustration and anger.

dr psycho=small man complex,loneliness,sadness and obsessed with finding someone for him to never be alone,his obsetion with diana.

circe=ego,evil,superiority complex and vindictive.

her villans not only have a lot of power,but they represent wonder woman's antithesis.

if you follow this standard,you have a great wonder woman's story,like perez and ruka runs.