Justice League Movie 2015 vs Wonder Woman Solo Movie

#1 Edited by jphulk26 (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

I´m pretty sure considering I´m on a WW forum that everyone will agree that they´d rather see a WW solo film before they see a JL movie. For two very pragmatic reasons.

1. For the overall quality of the Justice league movie, solo movies need to be made.

2. So WW´s origin story isn´t ruined by rushing it´s explanation in a JL movie.

So this discussion board isn´t so I can get a bunch of people agreeing with me that a WW solo should come first, as I think that is fairly obvious. Rather, I wanted to share a really really optimistic thought with you guys and see if you think I´m being overly optimistic or not.

I absolutely love all the JL characters, Flash, Manhunter, Superman, Batman and my new love WW (which is very recent), and it is beyond me how studio execs believe they can do justice to a JL movie, without at least some solo outings first. Each character has such a rich, and, unique mythology, that I think it is virtually impossible to deal with where all these guys come from, without making the JL movie completely convoluted. Their origin stories being even more rich and diverse than the members of The avengers. In fact the only Avenger members with real origin stories that rival that of DC characters are Hulk and captain America. You also can´t compare it to the X-Men, because the X-Men movie works because all the characters got their powers from being mutants. Its a simple premise. Same with The Watchmen. Now you could say they can take the root the animated series took, but I think that won´t work either. It worked in the animated series, because you could leave things hanging for future episodes. You didn´t really have to explain the characters that thoroughly in the first few episodes. In a two hour movie, you will have to do that, meaning the quality and pace of the movie or the characters relatability is going to suffer due to everything needing explanation to new audiences.

This has lead me to a conclusion; I really don´t think WB are planning on putting out a JL movie in 2015. Rather, what I think is happening is they are testing the waters with Man Of Steel. Their concern is that people don´t like like characters like Superman anymore. They think that Green Lantern and Superman just don´t fit modern sensibilities anymore, because of the failure of The Green lantern and Superman Returns. They think people can´t relate to them; as such they are out of fashion. In this sense, cause of the money lost on those movies, they want to make sure that such super powered characters still appeal to younger audiences. Man Of Steel looks amazing, and I think if it works, it may make WB execs change their mind, seeing that theirs a lot of money to be made with the rest of the JL roster. WB just aren´t willing to take the risk setting up a DC cinematic universe, without ensuring investors, that the characters weren´t at fault for the failure of their movies, but rather it was the quality of films like Catwoman, Green Lantern and Superman Returns that put audiences off. Its obvious to us the movie goers, but when you´re investing millions in these projects its a lot of money to lose on such a gamble.

I don´t know maybe I´m being overly optimistic as I said, but it just seems the stupidest strategy in the world, to put out a JL movie in 2015, when it is 2013, and all that has been announced is that the writer of one failed movie (Gangster Squad) has written it. No director, No actors, No budget, nothing. Its impossible for such a big movie to be pulled off that fast. Furthermore, to want to compete with the box office Juggernaut that the Avengers 2 is going to be, with a possibly rushed project is insane. I know the cocaine in Hollywood is supposed to be really good, but the exec´s can´t be that hopped up. I mean think about it realistically, how can they pull it off, with just the Man Of Steel as a vehicle for promotion? Even if the Man Of Steel is really good, that doesn´t say anything about the tone a rush JL movie will take, with all these unestablished characters. People will probably just wait to see Man Of Steel 2, if they are unsure about the JL movie. Unless they get some kind of consistent theme and tone, Man Of Steel will say nothing at all about whats ahead, it may even seem to them as a split off universe from the JL movie, considering the realistic tone Snyder is going for. Added to that Marvel are bringing out what looks to be their edgiest coolest movies to date in Iron Man 3 and Thor 2? Let alone, Captain America Winter Soldier, which I think is going to be a quite dark take on his mythology and may be a really cool movie, as well; all the way building anticipation for A2. They won´t have a chance against the Avenger 2, with that kind of setup, unless JL somehow happens to be at least 80 something percent on Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB. However most likely its gonna be Michael Bays Transformers again, with Superheroes and spandex if they rush it.

Sorry this post has gone on alot longer than what I initially wanted, but just to finish, it seems to me very plausible, that WW and Flash projects are being developed, while WB sees if Man Of Steel works. They will then push WW and Flash as solo projects in the same tone as Man Of Steel, as a lead up to a JL movie; probably doing WW and Flash in the same year. In this way they are just playing it safe, because Batman is the only successful Superhero franchise they had since the 90s. I mean even Watchmen tanked and that was actually an amazing film. It stands to reason considering, that maybe they aren´t sure that these characters can stand on their own two feet.

So let me know what you think. Is my theory too optimistic? Am I fooling myself? Are WB/DC that stupid that they will try and compete with Avengers 2 without any solo outings first for marketing purposes? Am I too long winded and do I need to get to the point quicker? All responses are welcome.

#2 Posted by darkman61288 (722 posts) - - Show Bio

I respecfully disargee. I would rather see a JL movie first then have a WW film set before released after the JL film. DC needs to as you said test the waters for it's other characters. Superman despite not being as popular as was in the past is still well known and may still draw some interest. WW however while still well known but as wel as Superman. She has some elements that might not be well recived by the GP. These include her costume personality and origin. Now you and me like these things but the GP might not. So by releasing a JL film before the WW film they can determind that anything about her needs to changed.

#3 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

JL movie is a good place to test updates on Wonder Woman to make her more popular with the general public. No need to mention origin of Wonder Woman in a JL movie.

#4 Edited by jphulk26 (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

: @darkman61288 said:

I respecfully disargee. I would rather see a JL movie first then have a WW film set before released after the JL film. DC needs to as you said test the waters for it's other characters. Superman despite not being as popular as was in the past is still well known and may still draw some interest. WW however while still well known but as wel as Superman. She has some elements that might not be well recived by the GP. These include her costume personality and origin. Now you and me like these things but the GP might not. So by releasing a JL film before the WW film they can determind that anything about her needs to changed.

@colonyofcells said:

JL movie is a good place to test updates on Wonder Woman to make her more popular with the general public. No need to mention origin of Wonder Woman in a JL movie.

I would completely agree with what you´re saying, if DC weren´t setting this film up for a 2015 release date. This gives two possibilities, coincidentally they´ve struck gold, with a brilliant script that just happened to be handed to them as The Avengers raked in over 2 billion dollars, or, more likely, some greedy fucks are under the impression that as long as JL is in the title and Batman plays a role in the movie, they are somehow going to mirror the success of the Avengers. If the second scenario is true, that may be far more harmful to WW´s future in solo movies, than DC actually taking its time to develop a JL film properly i.e. forget that female superheroes don´t sell, think about it like this, use Wonder Woman film as a marketing tool for an eventual JL film. Keep it in the same tone as Man Of Steel, so as to differiate your product from Marvel. therefore people will go and watch it in anticipation and to get clues for the direction that the JL movie is going to take. Especially if you rumor a cameo from Batman or Aquaman or Flash or hell, you could even have the main villain of the JL Movie revealed in the credits. It will be impossible for anyone with the slightest interest in how the JL movie is going to be treated to stay away. All they will have to do is make sure the movies good. That will sell tickets, inspite of elements of her character, that you think audiences may not warm to.

I get what you´re saying about WW having certain elements that may not appeal to audiences, but it seems nigh impossible that a rushed JL movie is going to do much for any of the characters apart from Batman and maybe Superman. You´re already saying, these guys are basically sidekicks. I mean just look at the X-Men, if you establish Wolverine as the hero and star, it completely overshadows everyone else. As such after the movie, the only demand for a solo film was for Wolverine. Nobody else mattered.

By the way out of interest, what elements of her character do you think won´t appeal to audiences?

#5 Posted by TheCannon (17950 posts) - - Show Bio

WW needs to come first (as does Flash). They're already rushing JL, why have to rush it more by making it the big screen debut of WW? Not to mention time for her origin. Sure, she is very well known, but how many people who don't follow comics know her origin? It's similar to Captain America and the Avengers.

#6 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

DC tends to portray Batman and Superman as the greatest so the other super heroes never look good at all and this could still be true in a Justice League movie. My preference is for Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Cyborg being able to beat up or kill Superman. I also prefer to limit the power of Green Lantern to telekinetic constructs similar to Marvel's Invisible Woman so that other Justice League members will have something to do. In pre-coie, Green Lantern could pretty much do anything like Zatanna or the gods and Hal always saved the JLA at the last minute and the silver age/bronze age JLA was never in any real danger.

#7 Posted by jphulk26 (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCannon: @TheCannon said:

WW needs to come first (as does Flash). They're already rushing JL, why have to rush it more by making it the big screen debut of WW? Not to mention time for her origin. Sure, she is very well known, but how many people who don't follow comics know her origin? It's similar to Captain America and the Avengers.

@colonyofcells said:

DC tends to portray Batman and Superman as the greatest so the other super heroes never look good at all and this could still be true in a Justice League movie. My preference is for Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Cyborg being able to beat up or kill Superman. I also prefer to limit the power of Green Lantern to telekinetic constructs similar to Marvel's Invisible Woman so that other Justice League members will have something to do. In pre-coie, Green Lantern could pretty much do anything like Zatanna or the gods and Hal always saved the JLA at the last minute and the silver age/bronze age JLA was never in any real danger.

OK, but can I ask this. Forget about what we want, and just think about the scenario for a second. Its is now 2013, nothing has been said announced about this movie apart from possibly that Will Beil has penned it. This is going to be one of the biggest movies of all time in terms of budget, it is going to cost 100s and 100s of millions to pull off; if anything happens in Hollywood, no matter how top secret, something will leak. People being considered for roles, directors etc etc. Any rumor that has come out about JL has been so obviously phony that it was obvious it was speculation. Like Joseph Gordan Levitt being cast as Batman or Ben directing the movie. So the plain fact of the matter is no matter what anyone thinks, this movie is not going to be out by 2015. Its just not happening. The only other really cynical thing I can think of, is they´re just trying to drum up interest in Man Of Steel, and after the film they´re just going to announce things have fallen through on JL and move the date accordingly to 2017 or 18. If that happens fans will be super pissed, cause it will be obvious what they´ve done.

#8 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

Warner's is playing it safe.They're giving WW a t.v show to prepare for the film and waiting after the JL film.

#9 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Movies can be delayed a little bit same as comics bec. of the chaos out there that we can't control.

#10 Posted by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700 said:

Warner's is playing it safe.They're giving WW a t.v show to prepare for the film and waiting after the JL film.

They should have put Wonder Woman in Smallville for a few episodes, nothing like some of the other JLA members, but enough to have some momentum to launch a show from. They could have launched Aquaman before the DCnU reboot and he had limited exposure and Arrow is popular despite the G.A. comic sales. Playing it safe should have included a few episode with Diana. Don't like the costume? Change it (Clark did)!

#11 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 I don't Think that Warner is going to make the 2015 deadline either. As mentioned before, there is far to much to accomplish in the span of less than 2 years. Will Beal got the writing job more than 2 years ago and there has been little mention of forward movement on the JL project to this date and that does not bode well for the quality of the script or drive of the people behind this film to get it done.

As for Wonder Woman getting a Movie before the JL film . . . I think you are being optimistic and perhaps overly so. I say this because there has been no mention of even a tease of any other JL related characters making it to the big screen since Green Lantern tanked. I also disagree that any solo films "NEED" to be made before the collective JL adventure, a quality movie is a quality movie and the elements of that project wont need anything else to make it so. The Marvel formula should not be followed to the letter for success, WB has ample opportunity to improve on that recipe to lay down a more cohesive story through out this franchise yet any film should stand on it's own no matter how closely associated it is to another movie.

The only thing that a JL movie needs to be is Good. Everything else will come when that's established. If it falls short of critical approval (like Green Lantern) then you can forget ever seeing anything like that from WB for another 15 to 20 years let alone the development of characters other than Batman & Superman.

#12 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO, release the JL movie 1st, they see how the audience response and reviews...if it's bad about other superheroes, then why make a solo film? Like many other non-comicbooks geek, my sister only knows 3 superheroes...that is Superman, Batman and Spiderman...just imagine how those people would say, :"Hey, who is this hot blonde?" [WW]

#13 Posted by jphulk26 (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

@Press Oblivion: @Press Oblivion said:

@jphulk26 I don't Think that Warner is going to make the 2015 deadline either. As mentioned before, there is far to much to accomplish in the span of less than 2 years. Will Beal got the writing job more than 2 years ago and there has been little mention of forward movement on the JL project to this date and that does not bode well for the quality of the script or drive of the people behind this film to get it done.

As for Wonder Woman getting a Movie before the JL film . . . I think you are being optimistic and perhaps overly so. I say this because there has been no mention of even a tease of any other JL related characters making it to the big screen since Green Lantern tanked. I also disagree that any solo films "NEED" to be made before the collective JL adventure, a quality movie is a quality movie and the elements of that project wont need anything else to make it so. The Marvel formula should not be followed to the letter for success, WB has ample opportunity to improve on that recipe to lay down a more cohesive story through out this franchise yet any film should stand on it's own no matter how closely associated it is to another movie.

The only thing that a JL movie needs to be is Good. Everything else will come when that's established. If it falls short of critical approval (like Green Lantern) then you can forget ever seeing anything like that from WB for another 15 to 20 years let alone the development of characters other than Batman & Superman.

True, but think about it, if you were WB, would you tell WW and Flash fans, yeah we have some ideas, only to know if Man Of Steel flops they won´t go ahead with it. If you put a rumor out that a JL movie is coming out 2015, but instead switch it to a Flash and WW movie, for maybe late 2015, to and summer 2016, plus a second superman, fans won´t care that they didn´t make the 2015 date. I just think they have to say something to keep fans happy till they see how Man of Steel does. But hey I know that´s a really really optimistic thought. My point is though, it will be extremely hard for them to get a JL movie off the ground without introducing some of these guys to a general audience first, even if you save it for 2016. They´re still going to be hard pressed.

#14 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

True, but think about it, if you were WB, would you tell WW and Flash fans, yeah we have some ideas, only to know if Man Of Steel flops they won´t go ahead with it.

The fans? They might be bidding their time to see Man of Steel reaction but I think they could care less about the fans of the flash or Wonder Woman.

@jphulk26 said:

If you put a rumor out that a JL movie is coming out 2015, but instead switch it to a Flash and WW movie, for maybe late 2015, to and summer 2016, plus a second superman, fans won´t care that they didn´t make the 2015 date. I just think they have to say something to keep fans happy till they see how Man of Steel does. But hey I know that´s a really really optimistic thought.

Fans will care especially after all of this build up and anticipation, they just won't have a real impact. When you're talking about the "fans" are you talking about the less than 100,000 people that are buying Wonder Woman and Flash comics or the millions of SciFi Fnatasy Action movie buffs that would go to see a Justice League movie. Waner isn't doing anything for the fans, they never do, if they do anything it's for their bottom line. If Warner has any consideration for a franchise series they should consider the fanfare then hand over everything to Zack Snyder. His taste for cinematography and story telling are perfect for a film like this and I have loved all of his big budget work so far.

@jphulk26 said:

My point is though, it will be extremely hard for them to get a JL movie off the ground without introducing some of these guys to a general audience first, even if you save it for 2016. They´re still going to be hard pressed.

Yes it would be difficult but not impossible, again the quality of the film would have to be great and perhaps closer to 3 hours instead of 2 so they could do a little more than gloss over the back stories of characters that haven't had movies yet.

My idea for this film would be wildly unpopular but I think it would help Warner to remove a couple of back stories in favor of decompressing the plot. I think a Justice League Movie can be done before a Wonder Woman film.

While Christopher Nowlan & Christian Bale have both mentioned that they are done with their involvement with Batman, I think Bale can be convinced otherwise with the right amount of money. In the Dark Knight Rises it is firmly established that Batman has been missing for 8 years and that he has no cartilage in his knees. One can speculate that he sustained the ailment while training all of those years and his actions in Gotham as Batman but maybe some of that damage can be shown during this adventure with the Justice League. The Justice League Movie and the Man of Steel can take place during this time span and have Christian Bale reprise the roll of Batman in the Justice League Movie. The same with Green Lantern, get Ryan Reynolds reprise the roll and with this you establish consistency even if the continuity isn't really there. Angela Basset has stated that she hopes her character, Amanda Waller to be the equivalent of Nick Fury in future DC related films so there's an element that can be used to sew up other additional movies.

The events of the Justice League Movie would spill over into the 4 peripheral solo films, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman, and Man of Steel 2, which all have closely knit plot lines that lead into Justice League 2. Everything leading up to the Avengers film didn't actually do this.

From Justice League 2 you lead out to sequels of the solo films and a new line of Batman films.

#15 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

Have you seen the article that Tony put up?

@G-Man said:

There was an early report that an early cut of Man of Steel was phenomenal. There is a lot riding on this movie not only as a lead in to a future franchise for Superman but also as the lead in for other DC characters and the attempt to bring the Justice League of America to the big screen. While there has been some recent worries over the script for the Justice League film, a new rumor may justify why the possible early draft of the script has been scrapped.

Latino Review is reporting that Christopher Nolan is now taking over the DC characters at Warner Bros. This gives him the final say in anything that is to be done on the big screen. This means that as with Man of Steel, he would be overseeing and producing the Justice League film. It's also reported that Zack Snyder would be a producer and possible the director for the Justice League.

But that's not all. They're also saying that this could lead to the return of Christian Bale as Batman. It might seem hard to swallow but Bale was quoted in an interview saying he would love the challenge of making a fourth movie work if Nolan came to him with a script and said there was another story to tell.

Of course none of this is confirmed at this point. It all makes sense in that Warner Bros. will definitely want to ensure a strong and profitable franchise to compete with Disney's The Avengers.

We'll have to wait and see if they will try to bring Christian Bale back. He's proven financially at the box office he has what it takes to bring life to the character. Having him alongside other superheroes could be odd but if anyone could make it work, it would be Christopher Nolan.

Source: Latino Review

I don't put any stock in anything that Latino Review has to say . . . but I would love to know what you guys think.

#16 Posted by Skewer (325 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to give my thoughts on this by first looking back on the justice league animated series from years back. I'm first reviewing superman the animated series along with the animated films and when I'm done I'll give my thoughts on what should be done and what mistakes need to be avoided and learnt from.

#17 Posted by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

I said it there and will say it here ...

Watching DC try to launch the flagship team movie franchise is like watching Microsoft try to break the tablet into mainstream; They have been at it for years, have had all the pieces in place, yet someone else (technically multiple companies) still came and beat them to the punch, and they are still trying to get it right.

I mean Fantastic Four came and is being rebooted, X-men came and is doing prequals, now avengers came and has made its presence known .... and DC is still planning...

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