Justice League #16 Preview

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#1 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (739 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Ivan Reis' Wonder Woman so hard...

#2 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (739 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Edited by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy $#$@!!!! Aquaman is stronger than I expected ... should have saw this coming after the last Atlantian sent Superman flying through a wall. Wonder Woman should not have needed her Lasso, or is it because he is in water...

#4 Posted by Z3RO180 (6555 posts) - - Show Bio

hopefully supes shows him whos boss

#5 Posted by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE said:

Think you got the sequence mixed

#6 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (739 posts) - - Show Bio

The alternate cover is cool as hell.

#7 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

Really? This is what its come to? At least Johns is open about his Aquaman fanboyism smh

Moderator
#8 Posted by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE:

I reversed the order in my post ;)

#9 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (739 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: Shhhhhhhh! So did I. lol

#10 Posted by Nightwing28710 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

The Justice League jobbing for Aquaman. These are strange times.

#11 Posted by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nightwing28710 said:

The Justice League jobbing for Aquaman. These are strange times.

I'm pretty sure everybody but Cyborg has had their go....

#12 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nightwing28710 said:

The Justice League jobbing for Aquaman. These are strange times.

Its a dark time for the Empire

Moderator
#13 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE: wonder woman should defeat aquaman easely,i guess we still how to wait for her to get more powerful,i don't understand,how much time do they need?,more than 1 year since the rebot,and wonder woman hasn't done any of the feats that make her you know,wonder woman.

#14 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler:wonder woman should defeat aquaman easely,i guess we still how to wait for her to get more powerful,i don't understand,how much time do they need?,more than 1 year since the rebot,and wonder woman hasn't done any of the feats that make her you know,wonder woman.

#15 Posted by lilben42 (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: didn't she. She punched him into a boat. That pretty much ended the fight.

#16 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

#17 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

You wouldn't say that if he had his beard. 
#18 Posted by Billy Batson (58029 posts) - - Show Bio

Shouldn't this be in the Justice League board?
BB

#19 Posted by TDK_1997 (14896 posts) - - Show Bio

Well,that ended quickly.

#20 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:

Really? This is what its come to? At least Johns is open about his Aquaman fanboyism smh

@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

The thing is, he's not an Aquaman fan. He's a fan of his Aquaman. He's done everything possible to make Aquaman cool and edgy, but he's destroyed the core of the character.  
 
 But yes, he is easily the worst fanboy-writer at DC. A true disgrace to the industry. 
#21 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

People need to realize how powerful Aquaman really is, especially in the NuDCU.  
He tackles WW with a superspeed like attack, crashing through a ship and temporally holds WW, even though she attacked him with the Lasso from behind first. And then he takes a WW punch to the face, crashing through another sheep and he is pretty much fine saving Batman's life after that. 
 
WW is still not invulnerable to gunfire or bladed weapons.
Aquaman is.
In the DCnU he survived a skyfall from an exploding plane, a hit from Darkseid (not only his energy attacks), and a temple collapsing on his spine among other things.
 
This is consistent with AQ for the last 20+ years, since PAD was on Aquaman.
 
People thinking WW should be more powerful are right, but AQ can make a fight of it.
And remember that in Flashpoint Aquaman was beating WW until she was saved by Captain Thunder.  

#22 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

You wouldn't say that if he had his beard.

LOL,I dont really think that Aquaman sucks,I'm just sick and tired of Johns writing.Can this guy actually write like a professional instead of a fanboy? whatever Johns likes he goes out of his way to make sure it happens,everything else be damned.

#23 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Gambler said:

Really? This is what its come to? At least Johns is open about his Aquaman fanboyism smh

@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

The thing is, he's not an Aquaman fan. He's a fan of his Aquaman. He's done everything possible to make Aquaman cool and edgy, but he's destroyed the core of the character. But yes, he is easily the worst fanboy-writer at DC. A true disgrace to the industry.

Interesting,I'm not really knowledgeable on Aquaman care to expand on this?

#24 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

@Decoy Elite said:

@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

You wouldn't say that if he had his beard.

LOL,I dont really think that Aquaman sucks,I'm just sick and tired of Johns writing.Can this guy actually write like a professional instead of a fanboy? whatever Johns likes he goes out of his way to make sure it happens,everything else be damned.

Honestly, despite being a fan of Aquaman I'm not really impressed with the current series. He's just so pointlessly obsessive about "proving" Aquaman is badass, and really I couldn't care less about that.  
I agree about he fanboy thing as well, he needs to chill his jets with the favoritism.
#25 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Gambler said:

Really? This is what its come to? At least Johns is open about his Aquaman fanboyism smh

@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

The thing is, he's not an Aquaman fan. He's a fan of his Aquaman. He's done everything possible to make Aquaman cool and edgy, but he's destroyed the core of the character. But yes, he is easily the worst fanboy-writer at DC. A true disgrace to the industry.

Interesting,I'm not really knowledgeable on Aquaman care to expand on this?

Well Aquaman was always a very strong team player. He has a bit of a gruff exterior, but that's only to those who earn his ire. Otherwise, he's always been very good to his friends on the League. There's no way he would let an Atlantean invasion happen. He was raised a human, ffs. He would certainly not fight his friends over it. Stern he may be, but confrontational he is not. 
#26 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Gambler said:

Really? This is what its come to? At least Johns is open about his Aquaman fanboyism smh

@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

The thing is, he's not an Aquaman fan. He's a fan of his Aquaman. He's done everything possible to make Aquaman cool and edgy, but he's destroyed the core of the character. But yes, he is easily the worst fanboy-writer at DC. A true disgrace to the industry.

Interesting,I'm not really knowledgeable on Aquaman care to expand on this?

Well Aquaman was always a very strong team player. He has a bit of a gruff exterior, but that's only to those who earn his ire. Otherwise, he's always been very good to his friends on the League. There's no way he would let an Atlantean invasion happen. He was raised a human, ffs. He would certainly not fight his friends over it. Stern he may be, but confrontational he is not.

I can already picture a retort from his fans somewhere along these lines

Johns Aquaman is clearly more interesting and multilayered .

Johns makes him more complex than an average do gooder

Etc,etc.

#27 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Gambler said:

Really? This is what its come to? At least Johns is open about his Aquaman fanboyism smh

@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

The thing is, he's not an Aquaman fan. He's a fan of his Aquaman. He's done everything possible to make Aquaman cool and edgy, but he's destroyed the core of the character. But yes, he is easily the worst fanboy-writer at DC. A true disgrace to the industry.

Interesting,I'm not really knowledgeable on Aquaman care to expand on this?

Well Aquaman was always a very strong team player. He has a bit of a gruff exterior, but that's only to those who earn his ire. Otherwise, he's always been very good to his friends on the League. There's no way he would let an Atlantean invasion happen. He was raised a human, ffs. He would certainly not fight his friends over it. Stern he may be, but confrontational he is not.

I can already picture a retort from his fans somewhere along these lines

Johns Aquaman is clearly more interesting and multilayered .

Johns makes him more complex than an average do gooder

Etc,etc.

Oh definitely. And they'll be the same ones who say that he could always put up a fight against Superman and WW, neglecting to add that it was due to enhanced telepathy and Lady of the Lake powers. 
#28 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: He has never used telepathy against either Superman or WW in a fight and the "Lady of the Lake powers" had no effect on his physical attributes. And he also never used said "Lady of the Lake powers" against WW or Superman in a fight. If you're gonna lowball a character, at least get your facts straight.
#29 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicfan11: No, he never fought them with it, but they gave him a significantly improved chance against the two of them. Physical attributes don't mean too much when you've just dehydrated your opponent or fried their brain. 
 
I'm not low-balling Aquaman, I've been defending him and am one of his strongest supporters on this site for years, so perhaps you ought to get your facts right. 
#30 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: Thank you for pin pointing why I didn't really like Johns Aquaman series. It felt off, but I never really could properly explain why besides the whole "CHECK OUT HOW BA AQUAMAN IS GUYZ" crap.
#31 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: So why even bring up those powers when they haven't even be used the way you suggest? Anyway glad to find another AQ fan,

Aquaman briefly fought WW in AQ #16 (PAD) series, along with the then Justice League. He tricked MM with fire, Obsidian was shocked by the alien ship under Atlantis and AQ defeated Fire & Ice, took a point blank punch from a pissed of WW to the face (again a surprise attack from WW) which crashed him through a building and on the ground and he was just fine again. The very next panel Guy Gardner attacks him and AQ fights him to a standstill. 
 
And again in Flashpoint Aquaman had WW at his mercy in Flashpoint #4 (without any use of exotic abilities, just physical attributes and fighting skill), until she was saved by another character.  
 
So maybe people are pissed for the wrong reason.
Are they pissed because Johns is depowering WW? Because this doesn't happen in the JL book. In fact WW best feats in the DCnU are in the JL book (stopping the carrier, clearly flying at superspeed, trading blows with Green Lantern)
Or are they pissed because Aquaman is not the character from Family Guy and is actually a hell of a powerful hero?
 
Because in the first case they are just hypocrites. Since WW didn't have flight originally, but after Perez it became a standard for her. Or the fact that Gail Simone gave WW another power every two months (electric bracers, etc). I sure didn't hear any complaints there.
 
Final point is Johns is not downplaying WW, he is just making sure that fans realize AQ is for real.
#32 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicfan11: Well, for me, I don't care that Aquaman is beating up WW. I'm fine with it, Aquaman should be able to stand up with the big guys.My problem is the fact that Johns' JL is nothing but an excuse for the greatest heroes in the DCU to beat each other up. The Justice League should never have this kind of frequent in-fighting, it's beneath them. Aquaman could take down the entire league and I'd be fine with his power level, I care about why he's being put in that position in the first place.  
 
The worst thing Geoff Johns has done is totally remove that element of trust and everpresent comradeship that defined the League. Now they're just jerks who beat each other up. 
#33 Posted by Krissyjump (104 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think people are looking at why Arthur 'turned' on the League. The Atlantean Army is too big and powerful for even the League to stop, just look at their first wave of the attack. Arthur is the rightful King of Atlantis and that is his brother. If he 'sides' with him then he can maybe influence him and tone things down. He wrote the Atlantean War Plans himself, he knows how devastating things will be if he doesn't stop them. As Arthur even said, he's doing this for both worlds. He wants to limit the loss of life on both sides as much as he can, and he feels that he cannot do that by opposing his brother. So he 'joins' him because it's the only way to limit the losses and potentially stop the war.

Also, I don't understand why it's a bad thing Batman got taken out. We have to remember that Batman is human, and that he's facing beings that are far more powerful and technologically advanced than he is. Yes, we all know that with Prep time Batman can beat almost anyone, but without it he'd generally lose to a superior enemy, which is what happened here. That doesn't diminish Batman, it just goes to show he's human, which honestly he doesn't always seem.

#34 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: On all those points you mentioned (the fight happy League) I agree.
#35 Posted by Krissyjump (104 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: They are a bit too fight happy sadly. :(

#36 Posted by chalkshark (1189 posts) - - Show Bio

I see they're still beating the Hell out of one another. At one point do they actually become a team?

#37 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicfan11@Krissyjump: It genuinely depresses me. One of the reasons I've always been a DC guy over a Marvel one is because DC heroes were less prone to randomly attacking each other over things that could be cleared up with a five minute talk. Sadly, that seems to be a thing of the past.  
 
 @chalkshark said:

I see they're still beating the Hell out of one another. At one point do they actually become a team?


Yep, exactly that.
#38 Posted by Krissyjump (104 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: Well we've also seen them address the fact that Batman should not be leading this team, albeit briefly and then we never went back to it. Clark needs to step up and take control of the team and actually lead them, not sit by idly and let it fall apart. I think coming after this we'll see a big change (hopefully) because it's very obvious now more than ever that Batman cannot hold them together and keep them in line. Aquaman was right, Batman is a great strategist and that is what he should be, not a leader, he just can't pull people together.

#39 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Krissyjump: Batman's never been a League leader though and has never wanted to be, that's just Johns forcing his anti-Batman agenda (which is painfully blatant and infused in all of his work) down the reader's throat yet again. 
#40 Edited by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Batman works well as a leader to the Bat family. They all look up to him at one point or another and he is the undeniable leader of that group.
But even under Morrison in JLA although everyone listened to him, he was more of a leading strategist than a leader, because he is indeed a top strategic and analytic mind, but JL is the cream of the crop, There are many characters that deserve a chance at leadership or had actually led before. From the most highly regarded person on Earth and paragon of good (Superman), to a king (Aquaman), to an ambassador/princess (WW), to a decorated high ranking space officer (Hal), etc etc.
 
I don't think there are bad choices (with the exception of the inexperienced Cyborg), just some choices are better than others (Superman over Flash for example and in my opinion)

#41 Posted by Saren (25681 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm okay with Johns' fanboyism when it suits me. #MartianManhunter

Moderator
#42 Posted by dondave (37472 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

I'm okay with Johns' fanboyism when it suits me. #MartianManhunter

QFT

#43 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

And Batman gets owned again,Johns is the biggest fanboy writer ever.Aquaman sucks there I said it.

I was thinking the same thing. Its the return of Hal Jordan all over again lol

Moderator
#44 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42: he wasn't defeated by her punch,i'm sorry if i sound too paranoid,but wonder woman has been victim of bad writing so many times,that i donp't know what to expect,for example i hope that she doesn't get KO by the electric attack from that guy that KO batman,because that would make her look like if she has normal durability,i just don't know if they will write her properly and treat her as the true powerhouse she is,until now,only perez,ruka and simone have writen wonder woman properly when it comes to power level,other writers just let street level character humiliate her,i hope that in the new 52 they will dodge PIS all the time,because that really ruins everything.

#45 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicfan11: flashpoint is irrelevan,it's not even cannon,it was the first step to the rebot,pre 52 wonder woman was always much more powerful than aquaman and a better fighter and it should stay that way,and just for the record,her durability always had a weak point against piercing weapons but she is very durable against everything else,wonder woman should always beat aquaman easely,i'm not saying he is weeak,he is not,but wonder woman was always in a much higher level and it should stay that way.

#46 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio
@gokuwarrior: Flashpoint was the normal DCU for the duration of the event. It was not a parallel universe like Earth 2. It was Earth 1 transformed to Flashpoint Earth and finally NuDC Earth.
Things seem to have changed in the DCnU though. Continuity is being made with every issue and JL is the main book. So we just have to wait and see where every character stands after ToA.
#47 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicfan11: if you are saying that flashpoint is cannon well do it,but aquaman beating wonder woman there is a huge PIS moment,she is a warrior with god like powers,and has much better feats than him(before that event),she should always be too powerful for him to handle,but with all the things that they have done to her lately,i just don't care anymore about her future,let her be owned bu a plastic bag,who cares,right now nobody is trying to develop her as the powerhouse she used to be,actually they seem to depower her as much as they can,what a shame.

#48 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt:wonder woman should always beat aquaman easely,i'm not saying he is weeak,he is not,but wonder woman was always in a much higher level and it should stay that way.

#49 Posted by comicfan11 (740 posts) - - Show Bio
@gokuwarrior: As I mentioned before WW is not shown as weak, AQ is shown as powerful. In the previous issue she helped stop a speeding aircraft carrier. And some issues before AQ lifted an ocean liner. Both characters get their moments to shine and clearly under Johns Aquaman is a peer to Wonder Woman, not because WW is weak but because AQ gets treated the way he should. Under Johns he fought Despero, fought WW in Flashpoint and will fight WW in JL. This is the new status quo for DC comics. The big 7 are played up as they should.
#50 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicfan11: no,wonder woman is always underrated by most of the writters,that's why many writers let street level characters beat her.

aquaman was never in wonder woman's league before new 52,and he should never be if they were writing the characters with the power level they are supposed to have,but no,new 52 has nothing but mediocre feats for wonder woman,now aquaman handles her,superman and other powerhouses that were way above him before the rebot.

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