Joss Whedon Wonder Woman Reference in the Avengers Movie?

#1 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok I picked up on this instantly in the Avengers. I looked on the internet and it seems nobody else caught this... or comment on it.

Ok look at this picture of Black Widow and tell me does anything seem similar?

yes that is Jim Lee Wonder Woman colors.

Red Top, Gold Trim, Blue Pants, Leather Jacket He even included the vertical seams in the top. Nothing in movie making is coincidence....

#2 Posted by Squalleon (3037 posts) - - Show Bio

And he also stole my grandfathers style and gave it to Captain America :-P

I think that you are stretching this too much

#3 Posted by SoA (4592 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe, whedon did want to make a WW film but DC passed so he went to marvel and made avengers , maybe this was his little nod, or its just a coincidence .

#4 Posted by 80sBaby (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you're reading into things.

#5 Posted by RazzaTazz (9354 posts) - - Show Bio

An interesting coincidence, that is all that I think it is though.

Moderator
#6 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squalleon: So you think its just a coincidence? Everything in movies and TV's are done for a reason. Every visible piece of clothing is hand picked. The actors don't choose there own clothing.

Yes Capt style is early 40's its obvious why they chose it But Black Widow wearing Wonder Woman's colors was not an accident. :P

#7 Posted by Squalleon (3037 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW said:

@Squalleon: So you think its just a coincidence? Everything in movies and TV's are done for a reason. Every visible piece of clothing is hand picked. The actors don't choose there own clothing.

Yes Capt style is early 40's its obvious why they chose it But Black Widow wearing Wonder Woman's colors was not an accident. :P

Look i just believe that you are overthinking this!

The reason of the red top is quite simple she has red hair and red goes very well with black(jacket)

Jeans are the casual pants

and the yellow stripe is just there!To make the top look better!

#8 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squalleon said:

@WDW said:

@Squalleon: So you think its just a coincidence? Everything in movies and TV's are done for a reason. Every visible piece of clothing is hand picked. The actors don't choose there own clothing.

Yes Capt style is early 40's its obvious why they chose it But Black Widow wearing Wonder Woman's colors was not an accident. :P

Look i just believe that you are overthinking this!

The reason of the red top is quite simple she has red hair and red goes very well with black(jacket)

Jeans are the casual pants

and the yellow stripe is just there!To make the top look better!

And Bruce Banner is wearing a purple shirt because that's his favorite color I take it? No, the color purple is significant to Bruce Banner. Styles of clothing/costumes are an integral part of film and TV.

Its not something I over thought I picked up on this in the movie theater on my first viewing of Avengers Black Widow is wearing black throughout the whole movie only in that one scene does she wear red gold and blue that's not a coincidence. I was very obvious to me and I am simply pointing it out. Take it or leave it. I work in the film industry my brother is a pretty successful actor. I have been on movie and TV sets I know how things are done and nothing especially clothing is done by accident. Joss was working on Wonder Woman movie script that was rejected by Warner Bros. Dressing Black Widow up as Wonder Woman how ever subtle is a way of thumbing his nose at Warner Bros without burning bridges.

like I said take it or leave it. Just giving my professional opinion.

#9 Posted by telepathic666 (227 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't believe in coincidences

#10 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@telepathic666:

#11 Posted by telepathic666 (227 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss: hahahahahaha thank you for the laugh good sir

#12 Posted by MrShway88 (653 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea, I think it's nothing. If she had a "W" on her belt then I would say you have something.

#13 Posted by Matchstick (565 posts) - - Show Bio

So putting a woman in a red top with a jacket is a WW reference?  You're trying to read way too much into that.   The reason no one else caught it is because there is nothing to catch.

#14 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread gives me a good time! :D

#15 Edited by drgnx (3518 posts) - - Show Bio
Bizzaro Beat You to the Punch!

Okay .... I don't think the jacket was leather or there is gold or anything -_-"

#16 Posted by TheGodofThunder (558 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure she was wearing a black jacket with a red shirt because black and red are the colors she wears.

#17 Posted by drgnx (3518 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGodofThunder said:

I'm pretty sure she was wearing a black jacket with a red shirt because black and red are the colors she wears.

#18 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Matchstick said:

So putting a woman in a red top with a jacket is a WW reference? You're trying to read way too much into that. The reason no one else caught it is because there is nothing to catch.

LOL art in all its forms is SPECIFICALLY designed so people extract meaning from it. By definition you are supposed to read deeply into artistic creations and find hidden meanings. Art is not random like you are implying. Same principle applyes to film making which is an art form.

Costume elements are SPECIFICALLY picked by the costume department/director or someone in all movies and TV. All costumes that characters wear have some meaning. Some have specific meaning some more general but nothing is random.

Someone went and picked a red top with gold trim including visible vertical seams and dark blue pants all elements and the general style of Wonder Womens costume.

The argument can also be made that the black and red symbolise a Black Widow spider which is also black and red but the addition of the gold and dark blue pants make me believe he was also pulling off a reference to is work on a wonder woman script.

Anyway, the color combination/Style was not a random choice. I would also like to add that RED is a very intense color and almost always has a signifigant meaning anytime its used in art and costumes.

That combined with the fact that Joss worked passionatly on a Wonder Woman script for years and had it rejected by Warner Bros. Makes me believe it wasnot picked by accident.

If it was just a red top and a jacket then you have a point but still its not a random choice it means something.

Who says nobody caught it? Anyway, this reference was not ment to be easily caught by fans and audiences its very subtle. It probably was his own personal message/statement that he can refer to years down line maybe in an interview or simply leave as is.

Artists do this sort of thing all the time. Leonardo Di Vinci comes to mine.

Take it or leave it I am just point out what I see as someone who works in the industry. Could I be wrong? of course I could. But honestly art is ment to be deeply appreciated.

#19 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@SoA said:

maybe, whedon did want to make a WW film but DC passed so he went to marvel and made avengers , maybe this was his little nod, or its just a coincidence .

That's not what happened. Joss, as he is prone to do, couldn't do what he was asked to, then gave a speech saying it was everyone else's fault.
#20 Posted by Matchstick (565 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:

@Matchstick said:

So putting a woman in a red top with a jacket is a WW reference? You're trying to read way too much into that. The reason no one else caught it is because there is nothing to catch.

LOL art in all its forms is SPECIFICALLY designed so people extract meaning from it. By definition you are supposed to read deeply into artistic creations and find hidden meanings. Art is not random like you are implying. Same principle applyes to film making which is an art form.

Costume elements are SPECIFICALLY picked by the costume department/director or someone in all movies and TV. All costumes that characters wear have some meaning. Some have specific meaning some more general but nothing is random.

Someone went and picked a red top with gold trim including visible vertical seams and dark blue pants all elements and the general style of Wonder Womens costume.

The argument can also be made that the black and red symbolise a Black Widow spider which is also black and red but the addition of the gold and dark blue pants make me believe he was also pulling off a reference to is work on a wonder woman script.

Anyway, the color combination/Style was not a random choice. I would also like to add that RED is a very intense color and almost always has a signifigant meaning anytime its used in art and costumes.

That combined with the fact that Joss worked passionatly on a Wonder Woman script for years and had it rejected by Warner Bros. Makes me believe it wasnot picked by accident.

If it was just a red top and a jacket then you have a point but still its not a random choice it means something.

Who says nobody caught it? Anyway, this reference was not ment to be easily caught by fans and audiences its very subtle. It probably was his own personal message/statement that he can refer to years down line maybe in an interview or simply leave as is.

Artists do this sort of thing all the time. Leonardo Di Vinci comes to mine.

Take it or leave it I am just point out what I see as someone who works in the industry. Could I be wrong? of course I could. But honestly art is ment to be deeply appreciated.

You're entire theory is still based on a very thin assumption on your part.  Sure you could be correct, but the evidence you present is very circumstancial and unconvincing.  The heavy odds are that you are simply reading too much into this and are looking for evidence to support your claim rather than letting the evidence lead you to a conclusion.  Fans have a tendancy to over analyze things and make claims that most times turn out to be false.  Pulp Fiction is a prime example of this.  In trying to explain what was in the brief case some fans saw the band aid on the back of Ving Rhames' neck and assumed there was a much deaper meaning behind it.  They developed a whole theory about  Rhames' character selling his soul and the band aid was to cover where the soul left the body.  In trying to explain the contents of the briefcase they assumed it was a soul and further assumed a backstory for how it got there based on the band aid.  Turns out the band aid was there for strictly cosmetic reasons and it had nothing to do with the plot.    This is most likely the case here.
#21 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Matchstick said:

@WDW said:

@Matchstick said:

So putting a woman in a red top with a jacket is a WW reference? You're trying to read way too much into that. The reason no one else caught it is because there is nothing to catch.

LOL art in all its forms is SPECIFICALLY designed so people extract meaning from it. By definition you are supposed to read deeply into artistic creations and find hidden meanings. Art is not random like you are implying. Same principle applyes to film making which is an art form.

Costume elements are SPECIFICALLY picked by the costume department/director or someone in all movies and TV. All costumes that characters wear have some meaning. Some have specific meaning some more general but nothing is random.

Someone went and picked a red top with gold trim including visible vertical seams and dark blue pants all elements and the general style of Wonder Womens costume.

The argument can also be made that the black and red symbolise a Black Widow spider which is also black and red but the addition of the gold and dark blue pants make me believe he was also pulling off a reference to is work on a wonder woman script.

Anyway, the color combination/Style was not a random choice. I would also like to add that RED is a very intense color and almost always has a signifigant meaning anytime its used in art and costumes.

That combined with the fact that Joss worked passionatly on a Wonder Woman script for years and had it rejected by Warner Bros. Makes me believe it wasnot picked by accident.

If it was just a red top and a jacket then you have a point but still its not a random choice it means something.

Who says nobody caught it? Anyway, this reference was not ment to be easily caught by fans and audiences its very subtle. It probably was his own personal message/statement that he can refer to years down line maybe in an interview or simply leave as is.

Artists do this sort of thing all the time. Leonardo Di Vinci comes to mine.

Take it or leave it I am just point out what I see as someone who works in the industry. Could I be wrong? of course I could. But honestly art is ment to be deeply appreciated.

You're entire theory is still based on a very thin assumption on your part. Sure you could be correct, but the evidence you present is very circumstancial and unconvincing. The heavy odds are that you are simply reading too much into this and are looking for evidence to support your claim rather than letting the evidence lead you to a conclusion. Fans have a tendancy to over analyze things and make claims that most times turn out to be false. Pulp Fiction is a prime example of this. In trying to explain what was in the brief case some fans saw the band aid on the back of Ving Rhames' neck and assumed there was a much deaper meaning behind it. They developed a whole theory about Rhames' character selling his soul and the band aid was to cover where the soul left the body. In trying to explain the contents of the briefcase they assumed it was a soul and further assumed a backstory for how it got there based on the band aid. Turns out the band aid was there for strictly cosmetic reasons and it had nothing to do with the plot. This is most likely the case here.

I think you are missing the whole

point. I am starting with

a FACT and using that FACT to

establish an observation. I am not trying to prove

anything or convince you at all

since nothing I am saying can be proven unless

Joss clarifies. Joss would say

yes you caught that or no it has nothing to do

with Wonder Woman.... But he

would also add the exact reason why the clothing

choice was made. It would not be

random like you are suggesting.

Its not that you disagree with me

you can do that no problem. Its that you think looking at hidden meanings in

art is meaningless and that art is static and what exists on the surface is all

there is.

The FACT it every detail of a

film set is specifically

chosen for a reason. If you do

not understand that then you can't possibly

understand what I am saying.

If you understand that props

colors designs and etc are

chosen for a reason to a high

degree of detail especially in big budget films

then it's not a stretch to

analyze any character based on simple clothing

choice or any other thing you see

on screen, like I am doing.

Now, I noticed a strong

correlation in color combination and

design in this particular scene with

Black Widow and came to my conclusion based on my knowledge of

set design. If any one of the

factors was off (say she had black pants instead

of blue or no gold in her top or

another director was involved then I probably

would not have spotted anything.

I am not saying I am 100%

correct. I am saying that it is

something that is common in film

making and art and if I ever got the chance I would

ask Joss about it.

Now, regarding Pulp Fiction.

Speculation about the Band-Aid

is completely warranted. It's not

just fan nonsense. Why? because everything in

film is done for a reason.... The

band aid was partly a cosmetic solution and

also served as a visual prop.

Ving has razor bumps in that area but instead of

simply putting makeup over or

avoiding neck shots, Tarantino chose to use a Band-Aid. He could have handled the situation a number of ways but instead uses a bandaid. Thats not a strict cosmetic solution in the age of special effects makeup. it was purposfully used.

which actually serves to make the

character MR WALLACE more interesting and he

was successful in that regard.

You trivialize the act of reading

into a movie or film.

which is actually the opposite of

what you should do if you really appreciate

the film you are watching. Sure

you can just sit back and enjoy a movie without

understanding anything about

movie making and still be entertained there is no problem with that. But

honestly I think I should have posted this on a critical review website rather

than comicvine. my mistake LOL. sorry

#22 Posted by TheCannon (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA said:

maybe, whedon did want to make a WW film but DC passed so he went to marvel and made avengers , maybe this was his little nod, or its just a coincidence .

This.

#23 Posted by Matchstick (565 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW:   Oh I understand your point just fine, I just think you are being way too pretentious about the whole thing. 
#24 Posted by StMichalofWilson (3411 posts) - - Show Bio

Uhh...kinda

#25 Posted by NewComicGuy (93 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounds like a bit of a stretch to me honestly. Always open to theories though.

#26 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW: So does that mean that optimus prime is secretly a reference to superman? Or spiderman?

Or that anyone who wears black is referencing batman?

Not everything done in shows/movies is a coincidence,dude.

It's an interesting theory,but I agree with the others,maybe your stretching this way too much.And you sorta have a wonder woman icon as your image,so it's kinda obvious that you'd say this...

#27 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

@WDW: So does that mean that optimus prime is secretly a reference to superman? Or spiderman?

Or that anyone who wears black is referencing batman?

Not everything done in shows/movies is a coincidence,dude.

It's an interesting theory,but I agree with the others,maybe your stretching this way too much.And you sorta have a wonder woman icon as your image,so it's kinda obvious that you'd say this...

Thank you for your very general analysis dude

#28 Edited by drgnx (3518 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

@WDW: So does that mean that optimus prime is secretly a reference to superman? Or spiderman?

Yup! And this lizard is totally referencing the latest Spiderman Movie...

Actually - Lets get some lawyers on this ...

(not making fun at the thread, just having fun)

#29 Posted by x_29 (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha! I love it when people read too much into things.

#30 Posted by PrinceIMC (5421 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like this is probably a coincidence. Often Black Widow is portrayed with a gold belt:

Earth-1610 Ultimate

Now if Joss Whedon had worked on the Wonder Woman comic when she sported that look I'd say maybe you have a point.

#31 Posted by drgnx (3518 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

@telepathic666:

#32 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW: And thank you for the general assumption.....

#33 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: My pleasure.

#34 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

WTH are you talking about??????

#35 Posted by Punisher_Williams (50 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's just a coincidence.

#36 Posted by GolDEnsPectre (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Black Widow's color on her uniform originally black and red?

#37 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow stole my hair colour except she made it darker. What is the world coming to?

#38 Posted by consolemaster001 (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squalleon said:

And he also stole my grandfathers style and gave it to Captain America :-P

I think that you are stretching this too much

#39 Posted by GWHH (523 posts) - - Show Bio

MAYBE.

But here a BETTER question. Who has a better chest Wonder Woman or Scarlett Johansson (and remeber we have seen her chest in real life)?

#40 Posted by TAneT62 (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

Coincident? That's what i'm presuming but a very good perception at that.

#41 Posted by Fallen_Crippled (6214 posts) - - Show Bio

Very interesting...

It may be a coincidence.... yeah... that is what I am leaning more towards. But I see where you are coming from.

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