How would you want a Wonder Woman trilogy to play out?

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#1 Posted by Muffin_Sangria (648 posts) - - Show Bio

Well right now even a single film seems like wishful thinking, but if Wonder Woman was given a live action trilogy how would you want it to play out and what villains would you want to see in each movie? Obviously her making a first appearance in MoS II makes an origin movie a little more complicated. Do you think they should still start with one or just brush over the origin details?

(Sorry if this topic has been posted before. The search function on this site never works for me.)

#2 Posted by modernww2fare (1323 posts) - - Show Bio

Well right now even a single film seems like wishful thinking, but if Wonder Woman was given a live action trilogy how would you want it to play out and what villains would you want to see in each movie? Obviously her making a first appearance in MoS II makes an origin movie a little more complicated. Do you think they should still start with one or just brush over the origin details?

(Sorry if this topic has been posted before. The search function on this site never works for me.)

I pray we see the 2009 movie adapted into one of those movies

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#3 Posted by Blade_R (2705 posts) - - Show Bio

Id like to see Katy Perry play wonder woman (If she can act) lol

#4 Posted by Experio (16662 posts) - - Show Bio

They are gonna mess her up.

#5 Posted by Muffin_Sangria (648 posts) - - Show Bio

@modernww2fare: My idea for the first movie would more or less follow the animated film. I think Circe should be the one who escapes from the Themyscira prison. Then she would use her magic to summon Ares to the moral plane and help him start World War III. If the movie is going to follow MoS II then some of the scenes would have to be done as flashbacks. Another option would be to set the first Wonder Woman movie during World War II. You could do the same villains but I had an idea involving Branoness von Gunther, and Doctor Psycho that might fit the time period better. You would just have to be careful that the movie didn't come off like a rip off of the Captain America movie.

I think how the trilogy would play out is mostly a question of if you think Ares should be the main villain for the first film or if they should build up to him for the last movie. I used to be for the build up but after seeing how badly that failed for Iron Man, and then seeing the scale that Man of Steel brought to the table I started to think that the first movie needs Ares. If you put the bar for the first two movies as only using villain weaker then Ares then I don't think Wonder Woman will come off as impressive as she should be. Ares also adds a lot of name recognition that her other villains don't have.

For the second movie I don't think the villain(s) necessarily have to be more powerful then Ares. I do think the second movie shouldn't involve any gods though. Where the first movie would be about her origin and her adapting to modern society I think her second movie should focus on her being/becoming an ambassador and diplomat, and show her really trying to make the world a better place. There are a lot of villains they could use in the film but I've got an idea in my head involving the Circle, and a subplot with Veronica Cale.

The last movie should be as epic as it can it can be. I think Diana should ascend to become the Goddess of Truth and that there should be an all out war on Mount Olympus. Probably throw the New Gods into the mix as well. Maybe Fist Born too.

There are a few other villains I'd like to see in a live action film but there's no way they could squeeze them all into three movies. They could possibly use Villainy Inc instead of The Circle, but throwing together a bunch of previously unseen villains together might not work well in a live action movie. Cheetah should defiantly make an appearance somewhere, but I doubt she could carry a movie as the main villain. I think it would be better if she played a minor role in each movie like Scare Crow did in the Dark Knight trilogy.

#6 Edited by modernww2fare (1323 posts) - - Show Bio

@modernww2fare: My idea for the first movie would more or less follow the animated film. I think Circe should be the one who escapes from the Themyscira prison. Then she would use her magic to summon Ares to the moral plane and help him start World War III. If the movie is going to follow MoS II then some of the scenes would have to be done as flashbacks. Another option would be to set the first Wonder Woman movie during World War II. You could do the same villains but I had an idea involving Branoness von Gunther, and Doctor Psycho that might fit the time period better. You would just have to be careful that the movie didn't come off like a rip off of the Captain America movie.

I think how the trilogy would play out is mostly a question of if you think Ares should be the main villain for the first film or if they should build up to him for the last movie. I used to be for the build up but after seeing how badly that failed for Iron Man, and then seeing the scale that Man of Steel brought to the table I started to think that the first movie needs Ares. If you put the bar for the first two movies as only using villain weaker then Ares then I don't think Wonder Woman will come off as impressive as she should be. Ares also adds a lot of name recognition that her other villains don't have.

For the second movie I don't think the villain(s) necessarily have to be more powerful then Ares. I do think the second movie shouldn't involve any gods though. Where the first movie would be about her origin and her adapting to modern society I think her second movie should focus on her being/becoming an ambassador and diplomat, and show her really trying to make the world a better place. There are a lot of villains they could use in the film but I've got an idea in my head involving the Circle, and a subplot with Veronica Cale.

The last movie should be as epic as it can it can be. I think Diana should ascend to become the Goddess of Truth and that there should be an all out war on Mount Olympus. Probably throw the New Gods into the mix as well. Maybe Fist Born too.

There are a few other villains I'd like to see in a live action film but there's no way they could squeeze them all into three movies. They could possibly use Villainy Inc instead of The Circle, but throwing together a bunch of previously unseen villains together might not work well in a live action movie. Cheetah should defiantly make an appearance somewhere, but I doubt she could carry a movie as the main villain. I think it would be better if she played a minor role in each movie like Scare Crow did in the Dark Knight trilogy.

^this guy's got the right idea

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#7 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

Muffin Sangrea is pretty much right. For me this is my idea of how it should go:

First Main Villian Ares, with Dr Poison as second villain. The way scarecrow was in Batman Begins, I think that would be a really nice combination. Dr. Poison is major creepy and Ares could be a beast.

Second Main Villain Alkyone, with Circe backing her up. I also would have Veronica Cale as background character. Cheetah should be somewhere in this as well.

Third Ares comes back, but Genocide is the main villain created by Veronica Cale, Ares gives Genocide powers. I´d also like to see Dr. Psycho should be somewhere in this as well.

#8 Posted by Muffin_Sangria (648 posts) - - Show Bio

@modernww2fare: Thanks. I'm sure other people have ideas that they think are better. I really have no idea what goes into making or writing a good movie, and I'm far from an expert on the character. I just love the Wonder Woman, and I spend a bit too much time thinking about what her movies should be about.

#9 Posted by ClarkKent12 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

She's going to be introduced in MOS2, I don't know how they want to bring her in but they could do a prequel showing WW's origins akin to the 2009 animated movie if they set it up well... Then a JL movie, then another WW solo would be ideal.

#10 Posted by AmazonWarrior (8 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like the movies to play out as follows:=, mind you this I something I have thought about her and there but no in detail its more like a “framework” of ideas and concepts.

1. Origin story, more mythical in nature, that sets up all the characters the relationship between Diana, Trevor and Hippolyta, and the hate towards WW from certain members of the pantheon including Ares, and his associate Circe. ( main villain= ARES and as a second in command type role…CIRCE, and setas up cheetah post credits.) I would also like a lot more interaction with Athena in this movie as Wonder Woman’s patron god, much like Kratos talks to Athena statues throughout his journey thinks it adds a good dynamic for the god relationship, and also has a realistic interpretation for inner monologue and thoughts. At the start I would like to mimic the excellent animated feature and show the amazons breaking free of Ares slavery, this should be brutal and the subsequent caging of ares. This should then show the setup of Paradise Island and the “creation” of Diana. ( in my version she is still clay) switch to modern day paradise island, As per normal Steve crashed on themyscira. Against a royal decree from her mother, Diana participates in the contest to be the emissary back to mans worlds and wins. Hippolyta is angered, and refuses, as a direct order from the Queen to accompany Steve back to man’s world. Diana disobeys and steals her godly armour and artefacts ( all the while watched by Athena). With the help of Circe in illusion Ares is allowed to escape. Diana leaves to follows Ares and Circe to man’s world eventually Ares is defeated but by the help of Circe who betrays him and steals his power…., Diana is about to kill him, when instead Athena intervenes and takes Ares captive and imprisons him in tarterus for his betrayal. Circe who has been assisting him, is not to be found ( she has slipped away and under an illusion spell is in disguise and has taken Ares powers) Diana returns to Themysica and has a tearful reunion with her mother, who then HAS to follow the law as queen, and against her broken heart, banishes Diana from Themyscira for breaking the law. ( I always love this twist in the JLA cartoon, and thought it would work wonders if done right.) Diana returns to man’s world and decides to take up a new identity. WONDER WOMAN. Post Credits Scene.. the statue of Athena wakes Diana in the middle of the night and forewarns of a terrible danger coming...scene fades… to a person being murdered in a dark alleyway… the silhouette and sounds of a woman laughing along with cheetah growls…

2. 1 year later, focusing on her Current life as Wonder Woman, renown super hero, having to deal with the villainous and dangerous mass murdering psychopath cheetah who has appeared on the scene, as well as online and in the media someone manipulating her "public image" ( Veronica Cale) Diana is also still adjusting to life in the city, and has a best friend ( Etta) and is experiencing turmoil balancing hers and Steve’s relationship and the fact that her moths banished her and how their relationship is now broke. During the movie there should also be a live televised event which is like a talk show where veronica and Diana have exchanges with results in Diana threatening her… and further tarnishing her image…. This stress further distances herself form Steve and Etta … and moves to steve breaking up with her and etta turning away from her…..in the finale after a string of encounters of murders and encounters Cheetah finally does a heinous act and fatally wounds Etta sending Diana into a rage after a massive public fight with cheetah…Diana full of guilt for fighting with etta and regret and rage “kills” cheetah…. This is all being filmed and manipulated by veronica cale, and has been a work in progress to unsettle Diana shopping her rage, and discrediting her, the public turn on Diana and she is taken into custody for murder and deemed too dangerous. All throughout the movie Athena should be reminding Diana of her rage and to be careful of the path she is heading down….and that she is losing ‘that’ which her a champion. ( compassion and love) <post credits> cheetah arrives at a temple and is bruised and bloody but alive…. Veronica Cale enters the room, who congratulates cheetah on a job well done, and shimmers and turns into Circe….. who smiles and says some menacing quote….

3. Full Circle- Hippolyta flips out when she hears that Diana is in jail for killing her murderous cheetah, and under the influence of Circe sends the amazon armada to attack, this should be a “loose” adaptation of amazon attack, and the first animated WW movie. Diana is alone wither best friend critical and braindead….no boyfriend, and banished from her homeland and no mother.. shes has lost hope and is in a dark place but believes she did the right thing. the amazons attack USA, WW is granted freedom to help them defend against the attack she also realises that this is her chance to redeem herself ( this could also have cameos and assistance form Supes and Bats :-D) After a string of battles and tactics she comes into a show down with Hippolyta ( wearing the gauntlet of atlas, girdle and herms shoes) the two exchange words and despite refusing to fighter her mother, under the influence of Circe who is looking on and mocking them….Hippolyta attacks and the two engage in a lengthy battle full of skill and wit, Diana realises Circe is the one who is manipulating her mother and flies to towards her intending to kill her…. The is massive explosion of sorcerous power and everyone is knocked down as the smoke clears… Hippolyta is passed out on the ground… and Circe is comes at Diana attacking with magic, Diana seeing her mother injured flies into a RAGE, the exact thing that got her into trouble and goes beserk fighting Circe and finally runs her through with her sword….who then collapses. WW rushed to her mother’s side, as she rolls Hippolyta rolls over she winks at Diana and says, well done princess… and shimmers into Circe and vanishes…and Diana realises, that Circe cast an illusion and switched places with Hippolyta, who Diana ran through with her sword… Diana is completely broken and cradles her dying mother and they share one last dialogue, before she dies she urges to Diana to remember the truth. The armies with Hippolyta dead return to their ships and themy. Athena appears and says that Circe had planned everything all along, by stealing ARES power, turning everyone against Diana and igniting a war between the amazon and mansworld, she is now uber powerful and is assaulting the gates of Olympus with her armies of Cyclops and harpies. Diana talking the hermes sandals, and with mental assistance from Athena, transverses the borders of the world and heads to Olympus, only to find the gods imprisoned in shackles and kneeling before the throne with Circe atop it. Diana and Circe engage in battle but now that circe has ares power is unstoabble and finally diana reasliees she needs to use other powers other than strength. Instead she taunts Circe into a rage and as Circe comes in for the killing blow, diana ensnares her in the lasso, and shatters all of the illusion circe has built up over her life, and reveals her to be a petty and jealous minor goddess… this undermines the concept of ares power… and circe is reduced to her former self allowing the gods to break free. Zeus banishes Circe to tarterus for eternity….. when she arrives for her eternal torture… her torturer is none other than ares the god she betrayed….he screams of rage and fear echo through out tarterus. Zeus grants diana a boon anything she wishes, although she would like her mother back, Diana ask for her former friend Etta to be saved. Zeus complies and Etta is returned to life. Athena takes WW back to themy and thanks her for hard work and reminds her of how she has come full circle, and is the champion of both battle AND love and compassion and must always balance these things. Before she leaves she says for her selflessness she has one last gift. It is Hippolyta restored to life. Mother and daughter reunite. Final Scene Cuts to 6 months later present day where WW is once again back in the states, Steve is dating Etta and all are friends having coffee at a café… there is an explosion in the distance, they all look at each other knowingly as diana runs into an alleyway and rips off her clothes revealing her amour and flies off to fight crime. END .

Themes

  1. Mother and daughter relationship
  2. Balance between compassionate champion of truth and amazon warrior
  3. Needing friends and support vs being alone and independant
  4. Illusions and truth
  5. Circe is really the main villain of all three movies manipulating everything behind the scene.
  6. Brains vs brawn.
#11 Edited by AmazonWarrior (8 posts) - - Show Bio

^^ sorry guys, my first post and so much to say :-/ ^^

I also typed it SUPER FAST, so there is probably a LOT of typos and errors, my apologies.

I spend wayyyyyyy too much time thinking about WW.

#12 Edited by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

Forget Circe, the Princess vs the Great Evil Witch wouldn't, in my opinion, be the best way to kick this off because it sounds kind of girly. I would love the first movie to take place in Europe during ww2, with her greatest foe being Captain Nazi, who would be a God from the solar system of Aldebaran, and the mastermind behind the war. The movie would basically enact popular ancient alien conspiracies. Shazam would make a guest appearance in this movie because he's awesome. I think a guest appearance from a popular male superhero would help launch Wonder Woman in Hollywood.

#13 Edited by wonderfan409 (26 posts) - - Show Bio

the first movie:WONDER WOMAN- this can be the origin story and i kind of like the whole zeus new 52 thing going but i would change some things around and after watchen man of steel i got a clear vision------------i think we should hav a flash back on how she got to mans world and that means having steve crash on the island and of course diana wants to take him back to london (well she does stay there in the new 52) then the movie cuts to diana on some ARGAS mission ( i know some fans don't like the agent prince thing but lets face it if the people want to know were she gets her money from well thats the best way i guess) were she has to save some hostages on a boat/ship with her partner agent etta (candy) and agent steve (travor) they save the people and go back to base in helicopter.......wen they get to the base we meet barbara minerva, slapper carr(both work in argas) and directer serge steel they all have a chat (i am not typing wat they gonna say) and then diana drives home in a posh car and we find out she lives in a penthouse (ok in the new 52 i do recall seeing that diana lives in central london so way not just some luxury) she enters her house and stairs out the sliding door and we cut to zola now this is taken from wonder woman #1 with the hera killing houses n zola meeting hermes n getting teleported n all then we have n epic action scene and the three go to paradise island and we introduced to the amazons and hippolyta ones again and wat happens in #3 and #4 well happen and of cos hippolyta and hera have n EPIC fight but the queen of the amazons dies in the end and while they were fighting diana,zola,hermes and strife were at the club (u guys know that bunch of scenes yes those ones) and diana decides (thanks to zola) to go back to P island and try and make things work out with mom but to her surprise shes died and of course diana stay there for the whole night and found in the morning by hermes then we cut to olympus were hera is looking in that mirror of hers she has on the floor and telling strife about how she wants to kill zola and diana and that kind of stuff--back on earth the three just found out that hera was the one responsible for the daeth of the amazons and that kind of stuff and of course diana swears revenge and swears to protect zolas unborn baby nomatter wat---next day while three are having breakfast there is a not of noise coming from a far miles away and wen they go to see wats going on they find demois who is revealed to hav been sent hera to kill diana and zola thinking fast diana asks hermes to take zola some were hera will never find and he does leaving diana to face off demois alone and the EPIC fight starts-----at the end of the battle hera show up and threatens diana saying if she does not show her self wiyh zola on mount olympus within 24 hours she will make london feel her wrath(just like in mos steel)----the fight with diana and demois di not go unnoticed by arges and steve knows that diana was the one who took him down( steve is the only one in arges that knows diana is an super powered amazon princess)---he immediately goes to diana's house to find out wats going on and wen he gets there she tells him but wat they don't know is that hera can see them in her mirror and see's steve as diana weak spot-----zola (who is nomore on heras watch)as taken sefaty in her old house with hermes---now diana has no idea were those two are starts to prepear for the worst-----24 hour has now past with no sine of zola or diana so hera unleashes a HUGE storm ---in hera's throne room strife looks into the mirror and sees zola and hermes at the old house and talls hera .....who does not waste one second and makes her way down to earth with apollo, artermis and demeter------hermes who knows there coming teleports zola back to diana's penthouse for sefaty ---the four gods arrive and intergate hermes who would not give zola's location and at that very second hera hears a sonic boom an looks up then BAM diana speedblitz hera into the ground and throw a hell of alot of building wen they crash into a garage(which explodes) then hera teleports back to olympus leaveing diana to go up against appolo,artermis and demeter( EPIC BATTLE) wiyh arges helicopter's shot bullits and missiles at the same time------back on olympus hera makes a deal with hades to unleash millions of creators from HELL to earth----after defeating demeter and artermis apollo teleports them all back to olympus leaveing diana (i forgot to mention that she in her wonder woman armor or costume..watever u want to call it)with the arges agents steve being the one in charge tells them not to shoot her----mean while in london hera opened a portal for all the creators to come out and of course the millitary are trying to fight them off ( trying to but failing hopelessly) the three plus steve make itto the arges base to meet up with barbara ane serge and find out a way to close the portal(plan:they get one HUGE missile and land it in the cantor closing it) the plan works but half the city is gone----wen they think its all over steve graps diana and kisses her (in front of zola,hermes and barbara) but a huge light bolt strikes in the middle of the rumble means only one thing....hera is still alive....and diana fly to her location hera say a few words and battle is ON------they smash into building create sonic booms which smash all the windows flying in the electricuting each flying into space and fight there then falling to earth untill diana manages to stap hera in the heart ending it all-----------the end :) the second movie:WONDER WOMAN THE GODDESS- basicaly this movie will go more into depth with diana goddess powers and introduce lennox,artermis(amazon) and donna troy------the villian is apollo and artermis and if u read the wonder woman new 52 comics u would now wat goes down----------------------------donna's origin is very simple-----she was made to be diana's playmate but since she was made from diana reflection she could not live outside of the mirror until hera came and killed all amazons the goddess gaia took the reflection and brought it to life... but because donna was traped in a mirror for all those years she around diana's age but a bit younger after finding out she was not the the last amazon she set out to find her sister princess diana the third movie:THE GODDESS RISES part 1-this movie brings orion cassie sandsmark(wonder girl) and first born to the table and gets everything rolling-----since donna is in this he kind of falls for her making the, a couple -----cassie's origin is simple-she's lennox's daghter end of story-----------and of course the meany of of the story is first born but since this is a part one not much action happens but the plot is developed-----first born wants to rule olympus forever but inorder to that he must kill all other children of zeus ---- so the people who die in this movie are lennox and zake ---- and deu to lennox death cassie wants revenge so a spaciel armor is made just for her with all the wonder woman bells and wistles the third movie:THE GODDESS RISES part 2-this is were all the action is- due to ares death at the end of part one diana was next in line for the title of god of war but she did not want it and wen first born unleashes an army on london orion is not the lucky one and ends up dieing----------during the course of the battle gaia pulls diana aside n tells the importents of a god of war and diana decides to take the mental but back on earth BF manages to get onto mount olympus and lown all the other gods....demeter being the last one standing runs to the olympien core and selfdestucts olympus leaving only dust and hera and hermes the last gods of olympus but FB survives the blast and after leveling all o them diana cumes back to earth (god mode) and kicks FB ass amazon style and of course FB dies but london is left leveled-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------THE END :) THERE WILL BE SOME SPELLING ERRORS BECAUSE I WAS TYPING REALLY FAST AND MY FINGERS WERE GETTING SORE--------------------and if u guys wanna add any thing u more then welcome_________________by the way i know i am a terrible writer but at least i gave it a shot

#14 Posted by Daiohnysis (128 posts) - - Show Bio

Movie 1: 3 hour long epic adaptation of Gods and Mortals, but with a young Steve Trevor as the "subdued", pepper Potts like love interest. Action scenes of hippolyta vs Heracles, the contest, WW vs thugs, WW vs decay, WW, Steve, and Etta vs Deimos, WW vs Ares. Barbara Minerva is also established as a archaeologist/ grave robber who is defeated by WW for raiding an Athenian temple.

2nd movie: WW learns of the mysterious Bana mighdall, whose city has been sacked by a mysterious she beast known as the Cheetah (who is of course revealed to be Minerva)

3rd movie: new 52 storyline

#15 Posted by Bezza (3723 posts) - - Show Bio

..I'd be happy with just a film, any film man its been a long wait, 38 years since I first watched the Wonder Woman TV show! All the time I see Marvel churning out endless films with mediocre characters like Cap America, just makes me sick that we haven't had a WW film!

#16 Posted by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is not a trilogy worthy character... Just like the Hulk, what villains do u use? Cheetah, I guess... But who after? Nazi's lol

It can't be done

#17 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman said:

Wonder Woman is not a trilogy worthy character... Just like the Hulk, what villains do u use? Cheetah, I guess... But who after? Nazi's lol

It can't be done

Nazi's?

So I guess you are really not familiar with Wonder Woman.

Ares the God of War alone would be enough for a trilogy.

  • Ares
  • Cheetah
  • First Born
  • Strife
  • Veronica Cale
  • Rogue Nations
  • Bana Migdol Amazons
  • Apollo

Are all villains to use

#18 Posted by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

I never heard of any of them.

#19 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman said:

I never heard of any of them.

Thats because you dont read Wonder Woman comics....So how can you possibly know if Wonder Woman is Trilogy material or not?

#20 Edited by Muffin_Sangria (648 posts) - - Show Bio

That's true. I'll probably argue that Flash couldn't pull off a trilogy because of his villains but that might just be because I don't read his comic. I think his villain would work for a TV show though so I guess it's good he's getting one of those.

#21 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman - whether you´re trolling I don´t know, but WW has more than enough villians that can translate into a great trilogy and has better villains than many mainstream heroes who have recently become big.

If you wanted fantasy/fun movie or animated series - version of wonder woman

Easily could have Cheatah, The Nazis and Baroness Von Gunther, Circe, Dr. Cyber, The Gorgan Sisters and more.

If you wanted a more dark one, action thriller that is grittier

She has great villains for that. ARES, Alkyone, Dr. Poison, Dr. Psycho, Maxwell Lord, Veronica Cale, Genocide, and many more. I´ve already done a video discussing this, wonder woman has plenty of villains that would put many rogues galleries to shame, it´s just writers at DC are either too stupid or purposely ignoring their potential. I think if I were to be honest the real problem with WW and her mythos is that it´s too political, philosophical and mystical based for the writers at DC who seem to have scifi and noir as their main comfort zones, that´s why they can´t see how obviously characters like Dr. Poison or Ares or even Alkyone, have all got massive potential as villians.

Dr. Poison - Easily looking at the recent uprise in the use of chemical weapons, the manufacture of biological weapons, could easily be a very relevant character for our time if repackaged correctly. Considering WW is on a quest is for peace, Dr. Poison therefore is an obvious and compelling foil for WW.

Ares is a goddamn no brainer. The fact a graphic novel devoted to WW and Ares, with an update on the character, even since the animated film, has yet to be released is a joke. They clearly have instant chemistry. Why it was decided he would make a better mentor to WW is beyond me. Like everyone thinks Ares is cool in General Audiences, its a cool concept, God Of War, people instantly get thats evil, yet badass, easily in terms of mainstream appeal her best villian.

Alkyone hopefully one day somebody will see clearly is not only one of WW´s most original and cool villains, but one of the best DC villians I´ve ever read, with literally tons of potential for what she could become and do.

Genocide, reworked, great monster baddy.

Veronica Cale - Evil Billionaire. Yeah cause that doesn´t work.

The list goes on. I mean Dr. Psycho is literally a mind rapist. Thats pretty dark, gritty and modern anyway you look at it.

#22 Edited by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw: I admit I'm not the biggest reader of Wonder Woman, but, like Thor, you have to be an absolutely AVID fan of hers to be able to see any of her villains as iconic TRILOGY CARRYING villains.

Thor is my favorite Marvel character by far, and I'd pay hundreds of dollars to see him fight Ulik, the Absorbing Man, and ESPECIALLY Mangog on the big screen, but can I honestly say Ulik or Absorbing Man can do much more than end up as subplots for the much more interesting Loki storyline EXACTLY LIKE WHAT HAPPENED TO MALEKITH. And Mangog would hardly help sell tickets based on name value alone. The movie would have to live up the the potential for it make any kind of serious money like the Dark Knight trilogy.

I mean, I read (past tense) Hulk religiously, and even I couldn't see much past the Abomination and the Leader.

That's how I see Wonder Woman. Honest assessment.
- And I've heard of Cheetah, Ares, Apollo, the First Born, and Doctor Poison (interestingly ONLY from the Golden Age issues), I was just making a point. The movies would be ENTIRELY dependent on the director, and actors, and overall film performance, and have little to do with the villains... In that regard, I can't say if it has a chance of being good, but I can say with confidence they'd have there work cut out for them

#23 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman said:

@wdw: I admit I'm not the biggest reader of Wonder Woman, but, like Thor, you have to be an absolutely AVID fan of hers to be able to see any of her villains as iconic TRILOGY CARRYING villains.

The movies would be ENTIRELY dependent on the director, and actors, and overall film performance, and have little to do with the villains

Dude you don't even read Wonder Woman so how can you even comment about her villians in a meaningful way?

Your statement has no real meaning at all. Only her Avid fans are able to see her villians as iconic Trilogy carrying? well of course!!!

  1. The same could be said about every single superhero movie ever made. Your Statement is entirely subjective and meaningless
  2. What the hell is a trilogy carring villain? You say it like there is a clear definition somewhere.

You just admitted you are not an avid fan so how can you possibly even comment about it... you just stated the obvious and negated yourself.

Realise that 99% of the people that watched batman Ironman captain america man of steel ETC are NOT avid fans sure they may wear a TEE shirt of there favorite superhero.... but all have no idea what goes on in the actual comics and NONE would take the time to even post on sites like comicvine about there favorite heros. They simply enjoy good stories.

The movies would be ENTIRELY dependent on the director, and actors, and overall film performance, and have little to do with the villains

HUH???

If a movie is dependent on the director and actor and overall film performance how can it possibly ignore the villains since the VILLAIN is also an ACTOR who we are depending on?

Superhero movies should always BE ENTIRELY dependent on the director and actors and overall story. Good and believable villains will be a welcome side effect of good movie production the only thing that needs to happen is casting the villains.

Let’s take Batman forever and Batman and Robin as a case study.

Riddler, Poison Ivy Mr. Freeze, Two face, Bane…. All great batman villains’ right? So how come both movies sucked?

Because the movies failed to BE ENTIRELY dependent on the director and actors and overall story

And decided to fill the movies up with icon villains rather than attempt to make a good movie

Same goes for Spiderman 3…. Venom is a great villain so what happened to Spiderman 3? Why did It suck?... same answer.

#24 Edited by wonderfan409 (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw said:

@relloman said:

@wdw: I admit I'm not the biggest reader of Wonder Woman, but, like Thor, you have to be an absolutely AVID fan of hers to be able to see any of her villains as iconic TRILOGY CARRYING villains.

The movies would be ENTIRELY dependent on the director, and actors, and overall film performance, and have little to do with the villains

Dude you don't even read Wonder Woman so how can you even comment about her villians in a meaningful way?

Your statement has no real meaning at all. Only her Avid fans are able to see her villians as iconic Trilogy carrying? well of course!!!

  1. The same could be said about every single superhero movie ever made. Your Statement is entirely subjective and meaningless
  2. What the hell is a trilogy carring villain? You say it like there is a clear definition somewhere.

You just admitted you are not an avid fan so how can you possibly even comment about it... you just stated the obvious and negated yourself.

Realise that 99% of the people that watched batman Ironman captain america man of steel ETC are NOT avid fans sure they may wear a TEE shirt of there favorite superhero.... but all have no idea what goes on in the actual comics and NONE would take the time to even post on sites like comicvine about there favorite heros. They simply enjoy good stories.

The movies would be ENTIRELY dependent on the director, and actors, and overall film performance, and have little to do with the villains

HUH???

If a movie is dependent on the director and actor and overall film performance how can it possibly ignore the villains since the VILLAIN is also an ACTOR who we are depending on?

Superhero movies should always BE ENTIRELY dependent on the director and actors and overall story. Good and believable villains will be a welcome side effect of good movie production the only thing that needs to happen is casting the villains.

Let’s take Batman forever and Batman and Robin as a case study.

Riddler, Poison Ivy Mr. Freeze, Two face, Bane…. All great batman villains’ right? So how come both movies sucked?

Because the movies failed to BE ENTIRELY dependent on the director and actors and overall story

And decided to fill the movies up with icon villains rather than attempt to make a good movie

Same goes for Spiderman 3…. Venom is a great villain so what happened to Spiderman 3? Why did It suck?... same answer.

THANK YOU----at least someone thinks that wonder womans rouge gallery has potential------look dude how doesn't read wonder woman' u clearly have no idea of how EPIC wonder woman villains can be if written correctly and if given the opportunity to be in a movie or even a trilogy they would most likely knock it out of the park

#25 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw - I would love to show you some of what I´ve written for the wonder woman script. I really want your view. Let me know if we can speak, because I´m actually in contact with the quite a few people connected to Warner Brothers and I have to finish this project soon. I know you wrote a script which is why I´m asking...


As for this whole discussion about wonder woman villains, the simple answer to the whole DC problem and this does not just apply to WW is that DC writers are so stuck on Batman and Superman that they can´t see past there own crap.

Flash has an excellent rogues gallery, excellent mythology, really cool powers, if he had a movie people would know that. His Rogues Gallery are cool in the Spiderman sense of being fun, but then some of them are real psychos as well.

Shazam again, why not an animated series. The recent work Geoff Johns did on him shows how easily he can be modernized. He has Black Adam as well who´s cool as hell.

Martian Manhunter, great character, again people love him from the animated show and many want him back, but DC are too stuborn. They are of the view they know better than the fans.

Even with Batman, DC get stuck on a broken record, using Joker and now boring Bane over and over again. Where´s a great Riddler Graphic Novel or Dummy/Scarface graphic novel.

It´s just a crying shame DC easily have the best villains and they diss their own characters openly.

Marvel has done 3 films with Iron Man with not one compelling villain and yet Wonder Woman has Ares the God Of War and they have the absolute gall to come out and say she doesn´t have a great villain. If Ares can´t be a great villian for you, i´m sorry, but you

shouldn´t be writing full stop. If you don´t have the imagination to transform a God Of War into a compelling foe for someone who fights in the name of peace then their something missing synaptically in your logic clearly. I cannot understand, how anyone can look at Batman/Joker, Superman/Lex Luthor or Braniac, Wonder Woman/Ares, and sit there and say that somehow Ares is sillier in concept or less compelling than what Joker or Lex Luthor can be.

Definition Of a Good Comic Villain

1. Multiple Interpretations can be made of the character.

Lex luthor fit that (yes)

Braniac fit that (yes)

Ares fit that (Yes)

Joker fit that (Yes)

2. Can be translated over period of time without feeling silly. i.e. one could make a 70s version of Joker, one could make a 50s version of Joker, one can make a modern version of the Joker. Each interpretation can fit the times seemlessly without seeming corny.

Lex luthor fit that (yes)

Braniac fit that (yes)

Ares fit that (Yes)

Joker fit that (Yes)

3. Has an intrinsic conflict with the protagonist that is psychological, physical, philosophical and spiritual....

a. Batman, Joker is psychologically his match, as Batman master detective, Joker master criminal. Physical: The Joker has thugs as well as various traps he can present for Batman: philosophical Batman represents order and rationality, The Joker Chaos, Spiritual; both are children of tragedy gone opposite ways.

b. Superman, Lex Luthor psychologically represents a threat to Superman because he has the most brilliant mind in the world, Supes can hardly be matched physically so we are only left to outsmart him, Physical, Lex Luthor brilliance allows him to be the soul human being on the planet that can create weapons and plans sufficient to take the boyscout down, Philosophical, here´s where things get at there best with Lex. Lex philosophically speaking is the Superman. The Man Of Tomorrow. His contempt for Superman come precisely because an alien has taken that mantle from him. He should be humanities savior, but instead Superman who has had it all handed him is the one everyone looks up to. Finally spiritually: Lex is close to Superman in the sense there goal is to elevate humanity, however Lex, feels elevating himself is elevating humanity, after all he is our greatest mind. Where as Supes chooses to elevate us all with him, an idea Lex finds sickening, contemptuous and patronizing. This makes Lex and Supes relationship continually fascinating, if not overly complex.

c. Superman Braniac: Now I might be one of the few to think this, but in my opinion Braniac is the natural archnemisis to Superman. Psychologically: Simple beneficentGod vs Malevolent God, one wishes to use his power to benefit that which is weaker than him, the other single mindidly wishes to utilize then destroy everything weaker than him, until he is all that is left, seeing absolutely no contradiction in his mission. Physically Braniac has so many interpretation and ways you can read him depending on the story being told that he matches him both in Brawn and his intellect allows him to develop weapons that are more than a challenge for Superman. Philosophically, Again Braniac wishes to usurp everything in the universe so he can no all things, becoming the ultimate fatalist with concerns his own fate, as the end of his mission only will brings about the end of his purpose. Superman is the one that continually challenges him to see that. Spiritually, Superman cares, Braniac is cold and without soul. Connected by very different types of Godhood.

d. Now on to Wonder Woman and Ares. Psychologically a match for Wonder Woman as he shows her the contradiction in her mission to bring about peace, by the very instruments and tools of War. He flaunts that in her face continuously. Physically Ares, powers, which have been manifold over the years, ranging from technopathy to Necromancy, and grow with his connection to the psychic energies of war, are not only a match for WW, but would be visually spectacular to see them go at it everytime. Philosophical: Ares champions and delights in war and destruction for its own sake and sees humans as just instruments to continue the folly of meaningless and brutal war. WW wishes to be a beacon of peace to the world, giving an example of how we can achieve things by other means. Spiritually, they are connected in so many ways its hard to put down to one single attribute, but I´ll say this, in my version, and Perrez, WW learns she can only defeat the War God, by understanding him, his loneliness, his suffering and pain. Pure fighting him on his own grounds only makes him more powerful.

4. Conceptually can be understood easily.

Ares War God

Joker Clown that kills

Lex Luthor Genius Meglomaniac

Braniac Artificial Intellect become destroyer of all life

5. Duality (Psychologically Complex)

Ares, usually depicted as slick, intelligent, stylish, but beneath a psychopathic animal lurks.

Joker, always a smile, colourful, cheerful, but beneath an anarchic, sadistic and random killer.

Lex Luthor, Genius, Saviour Of Humanity, Turned criminally insane by Narcissism.

Braniac, Once a living being, a scientist, who layer by layer stripped himself of any feeling, emotion, or empathy, now a monster.

6. And Finally What Makes A Great Superhero Villain

Writers.

Any villain is able to be great unless his name is Shitman, Or Piss Poor Or Egg FU :)

You can take any villain whether it be Cheetah, Sinestro, Gorrilla Grodd, whoever and make them compelling. Its up to writers to find something in the character that they relate to and put down. I see no reason in anyway that "Ares" or many of WW villains are discredited apart from lack of exposure to them, especially in other media such as film and television. I assure you if Batman movies and animated films hadn´t come out and superman dominated movies and films etc. and someone went up to a non batman reading general Audience person, and said you know Jokers a better villain than Lex Luthor or that Riddler is cooler than Braniac, or even theirs a villain called Killer Croc who is really good, they´d just look at you funny. Humans have a natural distrust and dislike about what they don´t know. They have to be shown, to understand. That is why WW and so many other DC characters are ridiculed because from the outside looking in technically all Superheroes are silly. Only once you get to know them does it click actaully thats whats great about them.

#26 Edited by Muffin_Sangria (648 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: Awww no Egg-Fu? I just picked up the old comic with him in it I gotta say its hilarious.

#27 Posted by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw You seem really upset, lmao! Chill out homie, it's my opinion. If u don't feel my opinion has merit because I'm not an avid Wonder Woman fan, than ignore it, don't have a cow lol

Dude you don't even read Wonder Woman so how can you even comment about her villians in a meaningful way?

Your statement has no real meaning at all. Only her Avid fans are able to see her villians as iconic Trilogy carrying? well of course!!!

  1. The same could be said about every single superhero movie ever made. Your Statement is entirely subjective and meaningless
  2. What the hell is a trilogy carring villain? You say it like there is a clear definition somewhere.

It's not "of course!!!" with characters like Superman, or Batman, or Spider-Man. You don't have to read comics to know their villains. Find me someone who doesn't know Lex Luthor and I'll buy every Wonder Woman comic you want from now until you die.

  1. Just because you didn't understand it, didn't mean it was meaningless. Maybe if u weren't so emotional about it, you'd be able to concentrate on it.
  2. Lol, really? Smh... So I'm not allowed to use terms like that cause it confuses you, since you can't look it up in websters (even though it's meaning should be pretty freakin obvious)

You just admitted you are not an avid fan so how can you possibly even comment about it... you just stated the obvious and negated yourself.

And I don't really care that I did, oddly enough

Realise that 99% of the people that watched batman Ironman captain america man of steel ETC are NOT avid fans sure they may wear a TEE shirt of there favorite superhero.... but all have no idea what goes on in the actual comics and NONE would take the time to even post on sites like comicvine about there favorite heros. They simply enjoy good stories.

REALIZE that this has nothing to do with anything. We're talking about movies, here. Batman has the most iconic villains of all time and is an easy character to adapt into film. Ironman was carried ENTIRELY by Robert Downey Jr (Not Tony Stark from the comics, ROBERT DOWN JR). Man of Steel is freaking Superman AND used Zod who's hardly a big deal in the comics, but as far as FILM, he's not even knew to the big screen (and it got mixed reviews). And Captain America, with the blandest character, and least interesting villain, made the least amount of money of all the Avengers prequels other than the Hulk, merely emphasizing my point.

#28 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman

1) How Red Skull is a boring villain?

2) How everyone knows Lex Luthor? I have a flammate in Spain, never read or interested in comics. Doesn´t know who Lex Luthor. 24 years old. Can you please now go out and by every Wonder Woman comic. Oh and by the way Lex Luthor and Joker are famous because of the amount of media around them. I can assure you, if Batman hadn´t got a film or animated cartoon, or yet another film, only comic nerds would know his movies.

3) Can you explain to me how Batman is the easiest to adapt? Have you written a script? Can you produce a brilliant Batman script scribed by yourself that shows me how easy it is? Can most people in the world write a brilliant Batman script? Or is Batman easier to write because he has more Graphic Novels that people can steal from. Or even better is the reason because there is so much media around the character that the secret to writing a good Batman script is A - being a good writer and b - liking Batman. Since B, is dependent on exposure to the character, we can assume that B in the case of Flash, Wonder Woman, Shazam and other DC characters is going to be much less. Since if you´re not into comics you won´t know much about them.

I reiterate, The latest Shazam Graphic Novel by Geoff Johns could literally be taken page for page and make just as good a comicbook movie as any Batman movie.

Same goes for Superman Earth One, Some Justice League Graphic Novels, a few Wonder Woman Graphics shifted around a bit.

There are more great comic book characters than Batman and to be honest I don´t even rate him anywhere near in the league of some other JL members in terms of how interesting he is.

#29 Edited by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw

HUH???

If a movie is dependent on the director and actor and overall film performance how can it possibly ignore the villains since the VILLAIN is also an ACTOR who we are depending on?

This here just shows you got too emotional to understand what I meant by that... What I was saying was, do you really think any non-comic book reader went to see Thor because they saw Loki was the villain? Obviously not, but like Robert Downey Jr's Ironman, Tom Hiddleston made the character great; the most interesting pre-Avengers villain by far.

POINT BEING: No one could have predicted that. He could have just as easily been a bust of a villain, e.g. Dr. Doom. In that case, it's not for fans to decide, no matter how avid.

Superhero movies should always BE ENTIRELY dependent on the director and actors and overall story. Good and believable villains will be a welcome side effect of good movie production the only thing that needs to happen is casting the villains.

Let’s take Batman forever and Batman and Robin as a case study.

Riddler, Poison Ivy Mr. Freeze, Two face, Bane…. All great batman villains’ right? So how come both movies sucked?

Because the movies failed to BE ENTIRELY dependent on the director and actors and overall story

And decided to fill the movies up with icon villains rather than attempt to make a good movie

Same goes for Spiderman 3…. Venom is a great villain so what happened to Spiderman 3? Why did It suck?... same answer.

Uhh-Okay?

Anyway, to conclude my point:

  1. No one is going to watch a Wonder Woman movie because "insert here" is the villain
  2. As an avid fan, your views on how the movie could be are simultaneously obscured with biased, and the only one worth listening to. That being said, this is a hypothetical question. You have your views, other people have there own... So unless you plan on hunting me down and kicking my ass over it, relax
  3. If the real life movie turns out good becuz of the casting and writing and directing and whatever, than okay... But could it just as easily turn out bad? Obviously yes... Point being, Wonder Woman's rogue's gallery are 100% dependent on the actor or director's interpretation. Everyone knows Lex Luthor, and how Lex Luthor should behave. It can be played with, but for the most part (in today's day and age anyway) we're talking arrogant, rich, criminal mastermind. But Ares? Cross your fingers Wonder Woman fans...
#30 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman

Seems to me you´re purposely ignoring what I have to say because clearly you´re wrong. You´re trolling and have no idea what you are talking about.

Do me a favor, name 3 villains from the 90s Hitman comic book?

Or from Generation X? Or from Spawn? Or Judge Dredd?

All the above have badass villains that can easily be adapted to film. There are a myriad of reasons why that has not happened. Because you don´t know villains does not mean they´re bad villains. That simple.

#31 Posted by _Atomikill_ (4309 posts) - - Show Bio

1) Mainly, Origin. Meet Steve Trevor here. Not sure about a villain yet.

2) Cheetah as villain, cliffhanger at the end as Cheetah claims she was created by a god, her last breath with her saying Ares.

3) epical battle between WW and Ares.

#32 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman said:

@wdw

HUH???

If a movie is dependent on the director and actor and overall film performance how can it possibly ignore the villains since the VILLAIN is also an ACTOR who we are depending on?

This here just shows you got too emotional to understand what I meant by that... What I was saying was, do you really think any non-comic book reader went to see Thor because they saw Loki was the villain? Obviously not, but like Robert Downey Jr's Ironman, Tom Hiddleston made the character great; the most interesting pre-Avengers villain by far.

POINT BEING: No one could have predicted that. He could have just as easily been a bust of a villain, e.g. Dr. Doom. In that case, it's not for fans to decide, no matter how avid.

Superhero movies should always BE ENTIRELY dependent on the director and actors and overall story. Good and believable villains will be a welcome side effect of good movie production the only thing that needs to happen is casting the villains.

Let’s take Batman forever and Batman and Robin as a case study.

Riddler, Poison Ivy Mr. Freeze, Two face, Bane…. All great batman villains’ right? So how come both movies sucked?

Because the movies failed to BE ENTIRELY dependent on the director and actors and overall story

And decided to fill the movies up with icon villains rather than attempt to make a good movie

Same goes for Spiderman 3…. Venom is a great villain so what happened to Spiderman 3? Why did It suck?... same answer.

Uhh-Okay?

Anyway, to conclude my point:

  1. No one is going to watch a Wonder Woman movie because "insert here" is the villain
  2. As an avid fan, your views on how the movie could be are simultaneously obscured with biased, and the only one worth listening to. That being said, this is a hypothetical question. You have your views, other people have there own... So unless you plan on hunting me down and kicking my ass over it, relax
  3. If the real life movie turns out good becuz of the casting and writing and directing and whatever, than okay... But could it just as easily turn out bad? Obviously yes... Point being, Wonder Woman's rogue's gallery are 100% dependent on the actor or director's interpretation. Everyone knows Lex Luthor, and how Lex Luthor should behave. It can be played with, but for the most part (in today's day and age anyway) we're talking arrogant, rich, criminal mastermind. But Ares? Cross your fingers Wonder Woman fans...

OH I am not upset at all.... You are forming an opinion on something you know nothing about so I found it prudent to school you thats all.

POINT BEING: No one could have predicted that. He could have just as easily been a bust of a villain, e.g. Dr. Doom. In that case, it's not for fans to decide, no matter how avid.

Really your point is you have no point.... you are flip floping your point..... Go REREAD your first post. here I posted it below....

Wonder Woman is not a trilogy worthy character... Just like the Hulk, what villains do u use? Cheetah, I guess... But who after? Nazi's lol

It can't be done

Meanwhile we just listed more than enough villains......

And by your logic Ironman would not be a trilogy worth character because I have NO idea who is villians are..... any yet here we are.... IRONMAN has made 2Billion

You can say that about spiderman, Captain America Thor.... ETC....

So YES it can be DONE and infact... It seems like the NORM

BECAUSE

95% of the superhero movies made have non mainstream villains.....

including Ironman and spiderman ETC..... so why is wonder woman different?

Everyone knows how LEX LUTHOR will behave? the mainstream public knows lex luthor from the GENE HACKMAN version which is VERY different than the one coming in Batman Superman.

You are really misinformed and I am afraid Clueless.... but you are entitled to your opinions

and your whole argument is flawed because people who are die hard Wonder Woman fans are not the only ones going to see the movie. maybe 1% of the people that saw the batman movies actually buy his comicbooks... I dont think you understand the concept of mainstream acceptance vs Comicbook fandom

And as for ARES?.... Dude that villian has had a ton of showing to mainstream public.....From Xena Warrior Princess to the Clash of the Titans movie video games and everything in between. Ares the God of War is known. ....Known for like thousands of years since the times of the Greek hero stories.

#33 Posted by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26

Seems to me you´re purposely ignoring what I have to say because clearly you´re wrong. You´re trolling and have no idea what you are talking about.

Do me a favor, name 3 villains from the 90s Hitman comic book?

Or from Generation X? Or from Spawn? Or Judge Dredd?

All the above have badass villains that can easily be adapted to film. There are a myriad of reasons why that has not happened. Because you don´t know villains does not mean they´re bad villains. That simple.

I've been "ignoring" what you've been saying because all you're doing is agreeing with WDW and I figured I'd kill 2 birds with one stone. I'm sorry you feel left out cause I didn't repeat what I was saying to her to you just to make u feel better

#34 Edited by Bezza (3723 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, I had forgotten what this thread was even about, seems to have got side-tracked into an argument about villains.

Well there's plenty to choose from in the WW world and lets face it before Thor 1, who had heard of half the Thor cast? First Born would be interesting!

#36 Posted by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw said:

OH I am not upset at all.... You are forming an opinion on something you know nothing about so I found it prudent to school you thats all.

I know about film, though... So..

Really your point is you have no point.... you are flip floping your point..... Go REREAD your first post. here I posted it below....

Lmao, emotional you are... That was the point to that paragraph... tl;dr? I mean do I really have to clarify that? Now ur coming off as petty, if anything

Meanwhile we just listed more than enough villains......

And by your logic Ironman would not be a trilogy worth character because I have NO idea who is villians are..... any yet here we are.... IRONMAN has made 2Billion

Smh... They don't have emoticons on this site? Perfect time for a *facepalm emoticon

I already explained this... I notice when you highlight and separate my comments to specifically retort, you skip out on some of the KEY points I was making...

I'll summarize for you right here. I'll even use caps lock so you can't miss it... ROBERT DOWN JR IS WHY THE IRONMAN MOVIES WERE SUCCESSFUL...

You can say that about spiderman, Captain America Thor.... ETC....

You can't say that about Spider-Man because he has iconic villains.

So YES it can be DONE and infact... It seems like the NORM

BECAUSE

95% of the superhero movies made have non mainstream villains.....

including Ironman and spiderman ETC..... so why is wonder woman different?

Maybe when I said it can't be done I was just being vague and over simplifying. But to be fair, I didn't know I was gonna be attacked by overly-emotional fanboys over it.

Of course it can be done.

Everyone knows how LEX LUTHOR will behave? the mainstream public knows lex luthor from the GENE HACKMAN version which is VERY different than the one coming in Batman Superman.

You are really misinformed and I am afraid Clueless.... but you are entitled to your opinions

I'm clueless? I love it when you people pretend to know what the "mainstream public" thinks... You guys aren't casuals, you guys are HARDCORE (in the nerdy way, don't get excited), so how am I suppose to believe you understand what the casual/mainstream public thinks?

Here's my point ON THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE (can't believe I have to add that part for you) Are you telling me that neither the 90's cartoon series, the Smallville TV show, the Justice League/JLU shows, or the video games as examples of Lex Luthor as a Rich, Snobby, Evil Genius businessman have no influence on the mainstream medias perception of him? No... Everyone, from all the little kids, to the teenagers, to the young adults were all influenced by the 1978 Gene Hackman performance, right?

and your whole argument is flawed because people who are die hard Wonder Woman fans are not the only ones going to see the movie. maybe 1% of the people that saw the batman movies actually buy his comicbooks... I dont think you understand the concept of mainstream acceptance vs Comicbook fandom

LMAO!! This one is hilarious for SOOO many reason... Not only did I just debunk the idea that I don't understand the concept of mainstream acceptance above (I'll give u a pass since it hasn't had time to sink in yet)... but THIS WAS MY POINT THE ENTIRE TIME! "The mainstream public don't know any of Wonder Woman's villains, so how can u expect them to get excited about it?" You missed that?? Wow...

And as for ARES?.... Dude that villian has had a ton of showing to mainstream public.....From Xena Warrior Princess to the Clash of the Titans movie video games and everything in between. Ares the God of War is known. ....Known for like thousands of years since the times of the Greek hero stories.

This is reaching...

I mean, there's Hercules, Zeus, even Hades as possible Greek mythological characters to get excited about Wonder Woman fighting, but Ares at best is going to bring up fond memories of the Kratos God of War games. Mars is more famous as the God of War than Ares.

But if they leave it vague as "Wonder Woman vs The God of War", that's not gonna get too many people that don't understand their relationship within the comic book universe especially excited.

#37 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman: Glad your entertained :) arent forums fun!!?

#38 Posted by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman Your argument up there has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever read. Really? I feel like literally wasted some of my existence reading it.

Should I debunk it? Can I be bothered? Why not?

#41 Posted by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26

Why wouldn't u debunk it right away if it's so stupid? Why are you asking if u should, why didn't u just do it? I sense intimidation... Why don't u grow a pair and do it?

#42 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok,

1. Dumb point.

Iron Man was a success because of Robert Downey Jr.

I can´t believe I´m even going to go into this. First off are you trying to tell me good reviews, killer trailers, great script, directing, the fact people like the Superhero genre, word of mouth, all these factors were eclipsed because RDJ was in a movie, that in that point of his career the man had practically been forgotten.

I´m not saying Iron Man was ever the most exciting Superhero amongst the comic reading community, and of course DJ had a great performance. However, clearly the sharply written script had much more to do with it than RDJ. Unless of course you saying Iron Man would have been a huge success, even if the movie was bad.

Hence if Wonder Woman has a great script, director and all the things mentioned above you assuring its success.

2. "Mainstream" I am not a hardcore fan of anything. My friends that I know of which is where all of us get our information from, most of them (my friends) never saw the JL animated show, or play Justice League games, or had any interest in Smallville, or Superman the animated show. To my knowledge, unless you were a kid or comic nerd, or game enthusiast, all those things are pretty random. Some people like it and watched or played avidly. To my knowledge, most people over a certain age have watched the original Superman movies, many more than have seen or played the cartoons and games you are talking about. Smallville might be your best point in all of that, but still, in comparison to the success of the original Superman films or even Lois and Clarke, Smallville is negligible. I

don´t know anyone who watched that show of my age group for instance, as much as people are aware of Breaking Bad, or True Detective or, other such shows. Even Man Of Steel which was not a great success critically in my opinion and from those I know is far more well known than Smallville.

As for Justice League animated show or for anyone who played Justice League Gods Among Us, they do know that Ares is Wonder Woman´s main villain, as well as those who have seen the animated films. Many of them either have Cheetah or Ares in it.

3. The Main Stream Don´t know who WW villains are so how can you expect them to get excited about it

a. Superhero movies are the new Westerns. Alot of people are invested in the genre and she is one of the genres biggest and most enduring names, even if her villains aren´t

b. You answered you own stupid question with Iron Man, good casting choices, great trailer, good director, good word of mouth, good script etc.

c. The internet. People who hear a Wonder Woman movie is coming out, depending on how the marketing goes, who are interested in seeing the film or even just have a broad curiosity about a female lead superhero movie, may be interested in who the villain is. They may look into it. The internet is a great tool like that. Oh or do General Audiences not have the internet, just comic nerds?

d. If it is Ares (Mars is more well known as the god of war LMFAO) that has name value from Greek Mythology and there are those who you´ve pointed out will know him from animated series, or from the Game or from her animated film. I believe there are enough people in the world between the two camps of A1 Know Ares is the god of war and like Greek Mythology and A2 know WW and Ares even if vaguely are archenemies from the internet, games and media.

Another dumb point.

e. How do you know what will and won´t get people excited? We listed off a number of Superhero movies that have been successful with villains who you claim are not even known. WW villian Ares is known even outside the comics, he´s more than a WW villain, so again it may or it may not get people excited and that depends almost entirely on what the take is on him, and her and the quality of the film and trailers in general.

Your points are nonsense bias.

#43 Posted by RelloMan (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26

First of all, you didn't tag me in the comment, so I didn't get to see it... Is that some kind of cowardly moral victory you mastered playing around on these forums? lol

1. Dumb point.

Iron Man was a success because of Robert Downey Jr.

I can´t believe I´m even going to go into this. First off are you trying to tell me good reviews, killer trailers, great script, directing, the fact people like the Superhero genre, word of mouth, all these factors were eclipsed because RDJ was in a movie, that in that point of his career the man had practically been forgotten.

I´m not saying Iron Man was ever the most exciting Superhero amongst the comic reading community, and of course DJ had a great performance. However, clearly the sharply written script had much more to do with it than RDJ. Unless of course you saying Iron Man would have been a huge success, even if the movie was bad.

Hence if Wonder Woman has a great script, director and all the things mentioned above you assuring its success.

Oh, so you're one of those... Take a clearly vague/exaggerated point and turn it literal to help out ur argument. Yeah, the script, directing, etc etc all had something to do with it, congratulations ur right about that...

My point CLEARLY (at least clearly to the mature non-fanboy type) was the normally bland run of the mill IRONMAN CHARACTER was successful (which is obviously a huge part of a superhero movie's success... What's a superhero mvie without an interesting superhero) because of Robert Downey Jr... If they gave the script to an actor without RDJ's charisma, comedic timing, screen presents, would it be as good... NO

2. "Mainstream" I am not a hardcore fan of anything. My friends that I know of which is where all of us get our information from, most of them (my friends) never saw the JL animated show, or play Justice League games, or had any interest in Smallville, or Superman the animated show. To my knowledge, unless you were a kid or comic nerd, or game enthusiast, all those things are pretty random. Some people like it and watched or played avidly. To my knowledge, most people over a certain age have watched the original Superman movies, many more than have seen or played the cartoons and games you are talking about. Smallville might be your best point in all of that, but still, in comparison to the success of the original Superman films or even Lois and Clarke, Smallville is negligible. I

don´t know anyone who watched that show of my age group for instance, as much as people are aware of Breaking Bad, or True Detective or, other such shows. Even Man Of Steel which was not a great success critically in my opinion and from those I know is far more well known than Smallville.

As for Justice League animated show or for anyone who played Justice League Gods Among Us, they do know that Ares is Wonder Woman´s main villain, as well as those who have seen the animated films. Many of them either have Cheetah or Ares in it.

This point is just dumb... So you are clearly over 35, so you were at least a teenager when Superman TAS came out and an adult when Justice League and JLU came out... So yeah, I expect that you and all your adult friends didn't watch too many cartoons... Well, me and my fellow under-12-years-old friends all did... I was the only actual comic book reader, but they all watched the cartoon...

And as far as Smallville? I didn't even watch the show, but most of my friends wouldn't shut up about it... I couldn't tell you which of them saw the original Superman movie. Those kids are now ticket buying adults...

Are you honestly trying to argue that the evil businessman Lex Luthor (which, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that the same Lex Luthor that appeared in the Lois and Clark TV show??) which is how he has been portrayed for going on 30 years now, ISN'T the Lex Luthor people think about when they think of Lex Luthor? Yeah... You're just flat out wrong here

And as for the kids that watched Justice League or played any of the video games... None of them know Ares is her main villain... He showed up in 1 or 2 throw away episodes, and I don't even remember him in any Justice League video games. That was also flat out wrong... Stop guessing, do some research

3. The Main Stream Don´t know who WW villains are so how can you expect them to get excited about it

a. Superhero movies are the new Westerns. Alot of people are invested in the genre and she is one of the genres biggest and most enduring names, even if her villains aren´t

Umm... Okay... So if they made a movie about Wonder Woman stopping a hurricane, that would be acceptable? Where's that face palm emoticon?

b. You answered you own stupid question with Iron Man, good casting choices, great trailer, good director, good word of mouth, good script etc.

Well I did mention that I was just being quick and vague with my first comment, not knowing butt hurt fanboys were gonna take offense to it... Butthurt fanboys like yourself that are almost 40 are the plague of the internet, I should have been prepared

c. The internet. People who hear a Wonder Woman movie is coming out, depending on how the marketing goes, who are interested in seeing the film or even just have a broad curiosity about a female lead superhero movie, may be interested in who the villain is. They may look into it. The internet is a great tool like that. Oh or do General Audiences not have the internet, just comic nerds?

Yeah, I think I missed the part where I said anything about the internet not existing or whatever...

But one thing you don't understand, becuz ur a comic book nerd and a fanboy, is that MOST PEOPLE don't look up comic book characters for any reason. I am the only comic book reader in my family, and even after everyone loved the Avengers, nobody cared to look up who that purple guy at the end was... Not a single one... In other words, some people might, most people won't... So, yeah the OPTION is totally there, and I hope you treasure that fact you stated... However, in relation to the argument you're trying to make... It didn't work, sorry :(

Though to be honest I don't even know what point ur trying to make, cause this is just a random point thrown in a long list of random points... You suck at arguing lol

d. If it is Ares (Mars is more well known as the god of war LMFAO) that has name value from Greek Mythology and there are those who you´ve pointed out will know him from animated series, or from the Game or from her animated film. I believe there are enough people in the world between the two camps of A1 Know Ares is the god of war and like Greek Mythology and A2 know WW and Ares even if vaguely are archenemies from the internet, games and media.

Yeah, see I know you haven't had the chance to read it yet, people that know him from the animated series don't know enough about him to care if he's in the movie. Like I said, in the animated series, he's in a few forgettable episodes. In the game, apparently he's in a brief scene (I don't even remember it) And as for the Greek mythology scholars (cause there's so many of those running around right? Lmfao, jackass) outside of knowing their relationship in the comics, why would they get excited that Wonder Woman's fighting one of the lesser known Greek Gods? The Ghost Rider fought the freakin DEVIL, how much did that help? Lol, nice try...

e. How do you know what will and won´t get people excited? We listed off a number of Superhero movies that have been successful with villains who you claim are not even known. WW villian Ares is known even outside the comics, he´s more than a WW villain, so again it may or it may not get people excited and that depends almost entirely on what the take is on him, and her and the quality of the film and trailers in general.

Well first of all, you and your partner in crime listed Superhero movies that have been successful without notable villains (why did you add "you claim" as if there's any argument of what I'm saying? If the villains aren't known, they're not known, it's not arguable),and I EXPLAINED WHY THOSE MOVIES WERE SUCCESSFUL DESPITE THE UNKNOWN VILLAIN. You can argue it all you want, but I have zero faith in knowledge of the subject, so have fun

And to answer ur question... I know becuz I'm one of them. Even as a comic book reader, I wouldn't be excited about Wonder Woman vs Ares in a movie becuz I don't follow their relationship in the comics. I'd be excited about a Wonder Woman movie, but the villain wouldn't be the reason. And I'm still a geek; imagine people that aren't geeks... The ones that watched the JL/JLU cartoons but forgot everything they saw (as most non-geeks tend to do)... I didn't even watch that Wonder Woman animated movie, do you really think any other non-geek watched it? Lmao...

In conclusion: All of your points are dumb, you did a terrible job, thank you for wasting my time

#44 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman

Actually there something wrong with my account which is why I didn´t put your name in.

2- I am 30 years old and from Britain. So maybe that´s what the difference in interest in these programs are for our age group.

3. I think you´re not really understanding my point.

I don´t want to go into a big one over this.

1. Any actor who is good would have made Iron Man a success. Any character actor could have done it. Its an easy role, where you get to be a smart allick the whole way through. So again I put the main importance on script, marketting, trailer, word of mouth etc...

I got what you were saying. ofcourse I knew you were including to a degree all the things I mentioned, but AGAIN I repeat, Iron Man with the script it had would have been a success with Matt Damon or hell even Jared Leto had he beefed up an gone for it.

I.E. If Wonder Woman for some reason has the right trailer, word of mouth blah blah blah blah blah, then your argument is null-and-void, because you´re guaranting her success. She doesn´t even need a good villain for a GREAT TRILOGY. She just needs something that appeals. Plus she´s more famous than Iron Man, at least take away his films and she was, so there´s instant interest. Where as Iron Man NEEDED all the catergories above to even get people to notice, if he had have failed in even one area we would be talking about IRON MAN as a cult classic or that rip off Batman film.

2. I agree people know who Lex Luthor is these days. You know why? Because of the internet. NOT BECAUSE OF THE SHOWS YOU MENTION.

Justice League animated show didn´t do the rating X-Men did. It was not that kind of phenomena. Niether did superman animated show do the ratings Batman did. The best rated shows have been Smallville, which was no way as big as Lois and Clark, which at the time every one watched, and no Lex Luthor was once again not portrayed as an Intellectual Genius. He was just a sinister billionaire. So in terms of how people know Lex the way I agree with you people know Lex and what he stands for, I´d say the internet has alot more to do with that. Watching shows we missed while they were happening online, looking up stuff cause we´re interested in films etc.

3. LOOKING UP SUPERHEROES ON THE INTERNET: Apparently according to you if you don´t search for something on the internet you´ll never find out about it. Is that the next idiotic presumption you´re coming up with.

Know there is such a thing called marketting. There is such a thing as websites and companies aggressively going after consumers to get them interested in their product. For instance how do I KNOW Ares is WW main villain. I didn´t a year and a half ago. Its because I´m into cartoons, and when I started watching old X-Men online, guess what popped up, Justice league cartoon. Cool I thought, I like Batman, I like comics. I´ll give it ago. And guess what popped up once I started watching a few episodes, yeah a DC animated movie. So I liked that and I got another suggestion, all the way till I got to the WW animated film a character I knew nothing about and didn´t care for before. That´s how the internet and marketting work. It doesn´t passively wait for you to type in what you want, it works out patterns in peoples behavior, via complex algarythms, so you are taken to what you might be interested in.

Hence if a WW film was to come out. If you were looking up the movie Alien or Silence of the lambs, for instance (Boop) it would figure out you like female action leads. Then slowly, you won´t notice at first but information relating to that field will keep coming up. New WW film will keep coming up. Trailer. Articles. And one day just because it takes your fancy you might click on the article. Maybe its not even to do with WW perse. Its to do with your favorite actor being cast in her movie, and you wonder what he/she is up to. You read the article. Maybe just maybe you´re a Greek Mythology buff and you never knew WW had anything to do with Greek Mythology and there it is Ares is the villian. Ooh you think. Do they mean the God Of War Ares or something else? You click to find out more casually or you watch a trailer on youtube, or sometimes a trailer automatically comes on when you click on the article to make sure you take notice. See how it works.

The same thing would happen if you are someone who searches for Superheroes. Say you´re someone into Ancient Greek and Roman based films and WW has a heavy Greek or Roman bent to it, same thing happens. That´s how this stuff works. That´s how sites keep you coming back to them. Thats why when you buy a book from Amazon you get emails suggesting other books you might like. So yeah, I´m pretty sure if a Wonder Woman movie comes out, not so long after people will care who the villian is, especially if its someone with THE NAME VALUE OF ARES, since as I´ve stated now a million times ARES IS MAJOR FAMOUS. Not for being a WW villian, but in his own right. Just like Loki and Thor are famous in their own right even outside the comics. Plus ARES GOD OF WAR cool concept, so I think it will be exciting for people if it seems like its being done well.

There you go.

#45 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@relloman Oh and just to finish my point, because you seem like a smart guy just trying to be obnoxious and stupid. Sorry because quite frankly your points are idiotic.

What are the first few things people care about when they decide to go watch a superhero movie? What might they do?

Whose acting in it?

Whose directing it?

Whose the villain?

Whats the trailer like?

Now WW clearly has an advantage with the third question if they go with Ares as the villain for her first movie. God knows what the morons at WB might go with. But praying on my knees for there own sake that the people at DC/WB have one braincell between them, they will put Ares as the centerpiece of the movie with WW. Why do I say that creates more buzz.

OK, lets take Captain America, who has one of the most famous comic book villains in the Red Skull. Even Red Skull is not as well-known as Ares to general audiences, especially before the movie came out…

Yes I think if WB did something dumb, like try and save Ares for the second film or choose Cheetah or even Circe (who is also famous outside comics, but not with the name value of Ares) then I think your point actually stands. I think peoples eyes would role back in there head and they wouldn´t care about WW many great villains if they started a trilogy off with Cheetah or Baroness Von Gunther. It would mean as much to them if not less than many of the villains in superhero movies that aren´t Batman or Superman. However Ares, does mean something to many people. No not everyone knows Ares is the greek god of war, just like not everyone knows Mars is the Roman God Of war. But most people with even a superficial level of education are aware or are friends with groups of people who are aware this is the case, and if they are interested in the genre, discussion sparks over the trailer, that conversation is going to come up at some point. Like "Yeah shit man, didn´t know WW was into all that Greek Myth stuff. Trailer looks epic. She´s up against the God Of War or something. Defo going to see that" Either that or "WW tits look epic in that trailer, looking sexy, yeah I´m going to watch that with my girl. see if I can get her the costume... duh" :)

#46 Posted by Daiohnysis (128 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, especially considering how $hitty the marvel movie villains have been , do you REALLY think the general audience gives a damn about who the villain is?

#47 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@daiohnysis - Yes I do because DC are known for having better villains. Lex Luthor, The Joker, Scare Crow, Ras Al Ghul, Zod have all been big parts of DC´s campaign in there movies. Marvel don´t do that because they rarely have good villains. Although Red Skull is one of my favorite villians of all time and I think was wasted in Captain America. They should have made alot more of him, they made him silly when in fact in comics he´s been a hell of a lot more sinister than The joker. The problem with WW and Ares, I don´t think DC recognize how much they have good chemistry. Nearly Everyone who saw the animated film seems into him and take a look at all the Fanmade Trailers of WW or all the WW fanfic screenplays Ares is always the villian. There´s a reason for that.

#48 Edited by Daiohnysis (128 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: yeah but that's fans and not the general audience. Hell most of the ppl who claim to be her fans just talk about the actress's boobs determining the quality of the movie.

#49 Posted by ComicNerd105 (66 posts) - - Show Bio

I got a question, I'm trying to find a wonder woman comic that redefines her, like with John Bryne's The Man of Steel, or Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, and Batman: Year One. Does anyone know the name of a wonder woman comic that redefines her?

#50 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicnerd105 - It depends on what you mean. I think WW has had a strained history in comics. Has she 4/5 stories, yes. But for some reason she´s always fallen short of absolute classic and in my opinion that is not the fault of the her character, but either the writers or DC.

I personally love The Circle/and then the end of that series War Killer. But again not perfect 4.5/5 I´d give it.

Ruckas run was great and he was going to do an Earth One comic but DC decided to go with another writer... Which majorly pisses me off, because he really got the character in a way that no one else did. Too bad. But his whole run, though he focused on villians I wouldn´t have was fantastic. 4.4/5

But unfotunately, even as a massive fan, I have never seen anyone do justice to WW the way Earth One or Superman Birth Right or Batman Dark Knight does for them. It´s unfortunate because it could easily be done.

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