Hippolyta's reputation as a Woman and Amazon Queen

#1 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

We all know that Hippolyta is the mother of Wonder Woman and the Queen of the Amazons but her reputation in comics has been bad this a list of her bad portrayal as Woman and Queen of the amazons when it comes to men in comics and other apperance.

1.First the writers portray Hippolyta as weak when it comes to men or easily gives in to them. In the George Perez reboot she the amazons were raped by Hercules and other men and then she had a romantic affair with her rapist Herc.

2.In JLU it was revealed that she had a romance with Hades and he trick her to opening the gates of tartarus and the reason for the amazons to stay in the island guarding the gates. She and Hades sculpted Diana together from clay but it was Hippolyta the one gave life to her.

3.Hippolyta also didn't escape the bad reputation in Wonder Woman animated movie she and Ares had a Son that she also killed. She said that Ares force himself to her.

4.In the recent reboot we learn that Diana's clay origin was Hoax spread by Hippolyta to protect her daughter from Hera. The thing about this is that she knew that Zeus was married and the consequences she will face if Hera finds out yet continued to sleep with Zeus as Queen of the Amazons it looks like she has no self-control, and her history with Herc and now Zeus sounds like Hippy has a fetish for Olympian Gods.

What are your thoughts on Hippolyta?

#2 Edited by Hazlenaut (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

She wants to make sure every Amazon learns her roots. I feel that she seem forceful and does not want to see any of them reveal any weakness. Not fun to be around with.

Anyone knows any good stories of her? I read the one with demon hand and chat too much and none of it was fun.

#3 Edited by Delete me (65 posts) - - Show Bio

As one of the few prominent mothers in comic book her portrayal is always weak or negative,silver age hippolyta is a liar, bronze age was raped and with the reboot now participates in adultery.

#4 Edited by WDW (1520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delete me:

As one of the few prominent mothers in comic book her portrayal is always weak or negative,silver age hippolyta is a liar, bronze age was raped and with the reboot now participates in adultery.

This is not the case. You should delete this post yourself since I cant do it

@Evil_Dog:

1.First the writers portray Hippolyta as weak when it comes to men or easily gives in to them. In the George Perez reboot she the amazons were raped by Hercules and other men and then she had a romantic affair with her rapist Herc.

I disagree. I think you WAY over simplified the situation. Hercules and his army begin a conflict with the Amazons. Hippolyta challenges Hercules and defeats him in single combat Hercules concedes that he is beaten and honerably accepts defeat and Hippolyta welcomes him as a friend. Hercules tricks her poisons her and rapes her. and his army imprisons the other Amazons. Hippolyta prays to Hera for strength to escape. Hippolyta and the amazons fight off Hercles and his army and proclaim to never trust men again. This is when the Amazons decide to isolate themselves from mans world.

3000 years later Hippolyta on a mission to find her daughter Diana in tarturus, discovers that Hercules has been punished for his actions against the Amazons and has been forced to hold up themysicra for the past 3000 years as punishment. Hercules is clearly remorseful for his passed deads and Hippolyta forgives. They have a brief romantic affair.

The rape of the Hippolyta was the central reason for the Amazons isolating themselves from mans world. Hippolyta's forgiveness of HERC is one of the central reasons why Hippolyta decides to reestablish communication with mans world. How can Hippolyta ever trust men again if the can not learn to forgive them? Without these events Wonder Woman and the Amazons as we know then would not exist. The Theme is powerful.... and the gesture is powerful.

2.In JLU it was revealed that she had a romance with Hades and he trick her to opening the gates of tartarus and the reason for the amazons to stay in the island guarding the gates. She and Hades sculpted Diana together from clay but it was Hippolyta the one gave life to her.

JLU does not share the same continuity as the DC Comic universe the hercules story never happend.... in JLU the story, Hades simply replaces the the Perez version of the Betrayal of Hippolyta. The theme is still the same as in the Perez version. Hippolyta trusts Hades and Hades eventually betrays her. The circumstances of there relationship is never explored.

3.Hippolyta also didn't escape the bad reputation in Wonder Woman animated movie she and Ares had a Son that she also killed. She said that Ares force himself to her.

Again this is an entirely seperate continuity this time using ARES as the betrayer. The same theme applies.... Ares betrays Hippolyta by forcing her to have his SON. Again this is central reason for Amazons isolating themselves from mans world for 3000 years without it Wonder Woman does not exist amazons as we know do not exist... in the context of that movie

4.In the recent reboot we learn that Diana's clay origin was Hoax spread by Hippolyta to protect her daughter from Hera. The thing about this is that she knew that Zeus was married and the consequences she will face if Hera finds out yet continued to sleep with Zeus as Queen of the Amazons it looks like she has no self-control, and her history with Herc and now Zeus sounds like Hippy has a fetish for Olympian Gods.

Again you are way over simplifying the situation.

How do you know Hippolyta knew it was Zeus when the first met? if you look at the panels of them fighting, time is clearly passing and the setting is CLEARLY not theymisciara. That being so, it's obvious the Amazons have not isolated themselves from mans world yet. NOW, since current Wonder Woman is only about 25 years old and the Amazons isolated themselves 3000 years ago, logic would have it that this whole courtship between Hippolyta and ZEUS's happend over the period of 3000 years or more and it could have even started the minute Hippolyta was reborn as an AMAZON (assuming that canon still is intact) Finally, they only slept together once a maximum of 25 years ago (Wonder Womans current AGE). Hippolyta refuses to go into details about what actually happend during that time. but the fact is that it was not some quicky affair that much is certain. IN ZEUS canon non of the women he cheats on Hera with actually know its zeus untill its to late. he normally disquises himself

In all 4 versions and in fact all versions of the story Hippolyta is compromised not because she is WEAK but because she trusted these men and they all betrayed her... with the acception of the NEW 52 story. That betrayal is the central reason why the amazons and Wonder Woman are they way they are today.

You seem to be listing these events like they all happend in one single continuity. They are clearly not. they are simply different takes on the same betrayal theme which is responsible for the existance of the Amazons as we known them for the past 70 years

#5 Edited by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW: First read my post again I never said that all of those happened in a single continuity second I made a list of Hippolytas portrayal and relationship with men that she always get betrayed or trick and third I never meant that she was weak physically her portrayal is weak for an Amazon Queen instead of being an example she always end up falling for a man or god.

#6 Edited by Mutant God (3075 posts) - - Show Bio

she also did it with Wildcat

#7 Edited by WDW (1520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil_Dog said:

First read my post again I never said that all of those happened in a single continuity

I never said that you said that... I said you SEEM to be listing this all like it happened in a single continuity since you did not mention in your post that you are aware they are different I wanted to make it clear to other readers that this is all seperate.

Second I made a list of Hippolytas portrayal and relationship with men that she always get betrayed or trick

Well your list is simply variations of the same THEME/event which result in a betrayal and the eventual creation of Wonder Woman and the Amazons as we know them today. So she is not "always" being tricked she only has been "tricked" once in each separate continuity. I am not sure why you need a list which just points to different writer's interpretation of the exact same betrayal/trick. It's kind of like listing the different people who have been said to have killed Batman's parents in the movie and comics and JLU and saying Batman's parents are "always" getting killed.

and third I never meant that she was weak physically her portrayal is weak for an Amazon Queen instead of being an example she always end up falling for a man or god.

Again your words make it sound as if you are lumping all the continuities together. In your own words you said "instead of being an example she ALWAYS ends up falling for a man or god." This only happens ONCE in each separate continuity and in each continuity it takes place 3000 years prior to Wonder Woman's birth when the Amazons are fully involved with men anyway.

as Queen of the Amazons it looks like she has no self-control, and her history with Herc and now Zeus sounds like Hippy has a fetish for Olympian Gods.

This statement makes no sense unless you are combining continuities

her reputation in comics has been bad this a list of her bad portrayal as Woman and Queen of the amazons when it comes to men in comics and other apperance.

This is the central point of your post but as I said before your 4 item list is simply 4 different interpretations of 1 central theme. Not to beat a dead horse but in order for this statement to make sense you have to merge all 4 continuities. For someone to develop a positive or negative "Reputation" similar actions generally need to be repeated more then once. This is not the case with Hippolyta.

#8 Posted by WDW (1520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mutant God said:

she also did it with Wild Cat

Well, It's her right to sleep with whom ever she wants :)

#9 Edited by Mutant God (3075 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually I rather see Wildcat as her father than Zeus

#10 Posted by WDW (1520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mutant God said:

Actually I rather see Wildcat as her father than Zeus

The book probably would not sell as well if that was the case.

#11 Posted by Mutant God (3075 posts) - - Show Bio

why

#12 Edited by WDW (1520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mutant God said:

why

Generally because very few people would buy the book past issue #1

#13 Posted by KingofMadCows (345 posts) - - Show Bio

At least she didn't peer into the beginning of time and release evil and entropy into the universe, or create a race of genocidal machines, or constantly lie to her own people about their history with disastrous consequences, or get tricked by a giant yellow space parasite that almost gained control of one of the most powerful entities in the universe.

#14 Posted by RazzaTazz (8968 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil_Dog: I think in JLU that was only hinted at and didn't necessarily happen.   
 
In terms of the actual portrayal of Hippolyta, it makes sense as not only villains can serve as antagonists
#15 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz:Thank you I wonder if the amazons are planning on something I mean Hippolyta lied to them?

@WDW: Don't you get it I made a list I know that all of them are set in different continuity your the one insisting that i made them look like the happen all at the same time. The "fetish" was a joke if you didnt get it I dont blame you Im not good at telling one. Now I'm asking what are your views on her?

#16 Posted by RazzaTazz (8968 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil_Dog: She has misled them a lot in the past, not really new here either.  
#17 Edited by WDW (1520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil_Dog said:

Don't you get it I made a list I know that all of them are set in different continuity

I know they are set in different continuity and now I know you know that all of them are set in different continuity. However, this is an open forum for everyone to read. Not everyone knows the the list you made is 4 different versions of the same thing. I am not attacking you. By pointing the continuity issue out in my post I am simply trying to clarify to other people that read your post and do not know because you do not indicate that it is different continuity. Is it not my right as a reader to clarify certain aspects of a posts before I answer? I am not attacking you.

The "fetish" was a joke if you didnt get it I dont blame you Im not good at telling one

Well I still dont get the joke :P Again this is an open forum people that are not familiar with Wonder Womans origin probably wont get it either. Also I am sure alot of Wonder Woman fans who do know her origin find it insulting. Its very hard to convey jokes properly in open forum settings

Now I'm asking what are your views on her?

Well to answer your question in the context of your post which suggests that she has a bad reputation as Amazon Queen and a Woman when in comes to MEN. I disagree

1. As a Woman with regard to the men in her life. Hippolyta can be passionate, honorable, forgiving, unforgiving, loving, caring and stubborn. She can also be naive but I would hardly say she has a bad reputation by any means.

2. As an Amazon Queen and mother of Wonder Woman. Since Hippolyta is pretty much the only Amazon Queen in the history of Amazon queens, we can hardly comment about her performance VS other Amazon Queens but I would say she is tolarant, fair, and highly respected. Her subjects seem very happy with her.

As Wonder Womans mother she is highly protective, loving, caring, stubborn, paranoid, overly concered and fair tolarant.

#18 Posted by RazzaTazz (8968 posts) - - Show Bio
@WDW said:

@Mutant God said:

why

Generally because very few people would buy the book past issue #1

I am not sure about that, but it wouldnt get new readers for sure
#19 Posted by Kagome - Twilight (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I agree with Evil_Dog. I don't think Hippolyta is that great of a queen and also a bit of a hypocrit. In every one of the continuties I've read about her, she falls for a man who is clearly not the smartest of choices and then, not surprisingly, is betrayed by them. Hercules, Hades, Ares, and Zeus (but not the betrayal part, but still not the smartest choice.) Then, after isolating themselves from man's world, she expects them not to falls in love if they ever do meet a man. Now the one that I am most familiar with is JLU(Justice League Unlimited: Animated Series), in which in response to Wonder Woman bringing men to the the island and having them help, Diana is banished. I always thought that was ridiculous. I felt that at least the men she associated herself with were good honest men.

That being said I'm not a fan of the Zeus story. I felt that Hippolyta should have known better. When in history has a woman who has slept with Zeus ever had a happy ending?! Never. Hippolyta selfishly jeporidized(don't know if I spelt that right) herself, her queendom, and her future child for her own selfish needs. At WDW who says "what if she didn't know it was Zeus?" Well obviously she had to have known. I re-read the panels and it's pretty obvious that the man she's fighting is some sort of god. Lightning coming out of his eyes kind of gives it away.Just saying

#20 Edited by WDW (1520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kagome - Twilight:

So who do you consider a Great Queen? I am curious Who is your favorite Queen?

It's very easy to look back in hindsight and and judge people on there choices. Everyone makes bad choices its human nature. Most people make bad relationship choices before they find a soul mate. Hippylyta made a choice 3000 years prior to current events and in her point of view the choice would have been seen as very innocent and in some cases honorable. Her orignal motive for her choices should be judged not the end result. Also Ares, Heracles, Hades and Zeus are not inherently evil gods or demiGods They have conflicts of interest which sometimes cause bad outcomes just like in real life... in each continuity Hippolyta is an innocent victim who rises to sucsessfully confront the betrayal done to her..... Thats a classic hero story.

I felt that Hippolyta should have known better. When in history has a woman who has slept with Zeus ever had a happy ending?!

Are you assuming that Hippylyta has the same third person perspective as the readers of the comic that know Zeus history? Hippylyta is the character in the story she has a first person view. She not does not have an omiscient view of history like the readers do. Besides this is a comic book story Making Zeus the father provides the much needed conflict that will shape Wonder Womans character. Its to early to see how it plays out. I think your comments are premature.... lets revisit this when we know a bit more.

At WDW who says "what if she didn't know it was Zeus?" Well obviously she had to have known. I re-read the panels and it's pretty obvious that the man she's fighting is some sort of god. Lightning coming out of his eyes kind of gives it away.Just saying

In original greek history Zeus always transforms into something the woman he is after would find irresistable for example, One story I remember is when Zeus transforms himself into a SWAN in order to make love to Leda.... Leda later had 2 children with him....That Theme has been reconneted in the Wonder Woman comics since we know know that Zeus transformed into a truck driver or something in order to make himself irresistable to Zola so she slept with him. Its not a great leap to see that the same thing happend to Hippolyta. All indications point to her not knowing it was Zeus until around the time they slept together.

I re-read the panels and it's pretty obvious that the man she's fighting is some sort of god. Lightning coming out of his eyes kind of gives it away.Just saying

There are literally 100's of Demi-Gods, Titans and other mythical beings that could display the same power. I am sure she is aware that the guy in an immortal but there is no indication that she knew it was Zeus and in all likelyhood based on Zeus previous history he was disguising his identity.

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