@brunnhilde ´- You say she was a walking contradiction, but to me it made her interesting. I never saw the amazons as innocent or noble or her mission of peace as inherently valid. what was cool about it was it was a clash of ideas. her world held a miror up to the flaws and contradictions of our society, just like Man´s World held a mirror up to hers. Maybe I read it differently, but I saw Simone and Rucka´s books as books of ideas, clashing the ideals of two flawed social ideologies up against each other and
seeing what happened.
This is what I never get about peoples critique of ww´s mythos. They always say the Amazons are painted as perfect, when they aren´t. Atleast in Rucka and Simone, the Amazons have noble qualities about them but they are also deeply flawed and I think that is made very clear, so I never understand why people take ww or the amazons to be depicted as too perfect. Even in Perrez this is the case. I would say only of WW´s most acclaimed runs only in Marstons original conception were the Amazons supposed to be taken as literally the saviors of the world. In Perrez, Rucka, Simone, Jimminez and certainly now in Azzerello they´ve always been painted as having an astrix over their ideology. A grey zone, where there are inner flaws to their logic as well as Diana´s.
@csg_cl said:
@jphulk26 said:
By the way before I get hate for the title, I actually wrote a much less inflammatory title, but it was too many characters, so I had to reduce the title down to the basics.
This isn´t me hating on the New 52 origin. It´s just something that occurred to me.
If Zeus is WW father and she knows it from the beginning, then Ares will be her half-brother. Now presuming a large majority of people expect Ares to show up as one of her major villains, in his pre-52 villainous guise, does it not completely ruin their dynamic if they´re siblings. Where as there could have been some sexual tension between them and all other manners of layers to their relationship, now it can only be reduced to envious older brother. Which is a death nail of a motivation for a villain like Ares. They could try and ignore the sibling relationship, but that still isn´t going to be very helpful.
Also I realized that most stories of myth concerning demi-gods or the bastard children of Zeus in particular are always stories of the children of Zeus discovering they are the children of Zeus and responding to that revelation. A story doesn´t usually start out with the child knowing all along they are half human, half god. In fact even in Azzerello´s new origin that is how the story goes. WW discovers she´s Zeus´s child and the adventure that proceeds is about her dealing with that revelation.
I assume in the movie, they cannot possibly waste screen time explaining to the audience that Diana first thought she was clay, then it was revealed she was Zeus´s daughter. I also assume the sex-pirates and all that stuff is going to be dropped as well. So I´m just wondering what is WW´s epic origin going to be if she is just daughter of Zeus. I´m guessing her origin is going to be Zeus screwed Hippolyta, the end. Because that is all one can take from the new 52 origin without alienating audiences from the Amazons and by association Diana.
Anyway, I just wondered your thoughts on this. Again I want to reiterate I am not just trying to hate on the new 52 origin. I´m just trying to work out how fitting the Zeus as dad thing is going to work.
discuss
It's an interesting point you bring up, but I see no reason to incorporate sexual tension between Diana and Ares ... it's already clear that Steve Trevor will be in the movie so one would assume he will play love interest since it seems unlikely that WW/SM will be a thing in the DCCU under Snyder.
I actually hope they focus more on her journey to Man's World and why she is there rather than yet another origin story ... quick setup of who/what the Amazon's are, give us some Zeus daddy moments, and maybe a quick tournament montage then move on to an adventure in Man's World. I agree with you that the DoZ birth could easily suck, because it's not interesting as a story on it's own and honestly people have seen Heracles movies a million times.
Problem. This is most peoples first introduction to wonder woman lore. You can´t just assume they know what what´s going on and the importance behind it. Even with Man Of Steel, with superman no less (and everyone knows supermans origin), people were irritated and pissed off at how much of his origin they skipped and it affected the movie critically, which is why Batman had to be put in the sequel.
This is also a fact of superhero franchises. All the top grossing and most critically acclaimed solo superhero flicks started with an origin. Ones that don´t start with an origin have always failed, unless they are team superhero stories.
Secondly, if she is already familiar with men i.e. daddy zeus, then the whole aspect of her coming to mans world and encountering men for the first time, loses a lot of it´s oomph. It simply rips the heart right out of the ww origin without that unique encounter. If she´s met and been personable with a man before steve, I´d say, forget about it. whether it be zeus or ares as male mentor, it´s just not going to work. it´s one thing meeting ares briefly in prison, before meeting steve, but having a full on relationship`with a male, one that is her brother no less, was the same problem man of steel ran into by having ALL krypton capable of space aviation and exploration. On paper it sounds good and the right way to go, but in execution it´s illogical and destroys the story at it´s very center.
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