Does Wonder Woman's clay origin make her unrelatable?

Posted by SayaOtonashi (198 posts) 8 months, 19 days ago

Poll: Does Wonder Woman's clay origin make her unrelatable? (30 votes)

Yes 10%
No 67%
Maybe 23%

From my understanding her not having a father is unrelatable. However Superman's and Batman's basic origin of One coming from another planet and is raised by the Kents and Batman's parents dying is kept.

#1 Posted by Pokeysteve (8558 posts) - - Show Bio

Not having both parents is kind of a superhero staple.

  • Batman
  • Hal Jordan
  • Barry Allen
  • Peter Parker
  • Daredevil
  • Dick Grayson
  • Elektra
  • Johnny Blaze

All of these people have lost parents which directly or indirectly led to them being superheroes. If Wonder Woman not having a dad makes her unrelatable than these people are unrelatable too. For me personally, relating to characters in comics seems ridiculous. I don't have superpowers and I'm not rich.

#2 Posted by CaptainTightpants12 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always been perfectly content with her clay origin, but I love her new Daughter of Zues origin much more. Her connections to the Greek Gods make for a much fuller story and gives her a much richer cast of supporting characters.

#3 Posted by Farkam (5011 posts) - - Show Bio

Lot's of real life people don't have their fathers.

#4 Edited by SayaOtonashi (198 posts) - - Show Bio

@captaintightpants12:

I know what your saying but my only problem is the whole why Zeus why not Hecrules.

#5 Edited by CaptainTightpants12 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

@sayaotonashi I wouldn't be against Hercules, or any of the others, though there is a kind of a value in Hermes, Apollo, etc being her half-brothers. And Hera being her step-mother and all of that. It's one degree closer, and there's value in that because they can't discard her as a niece or a grand-daughter or whatever. Being Zeus's daughter thrusts her directly into the affairs of Olympus, which has proven to be rich story potential.

#6 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

Relating is overrated.

#7 Posted by Super-Wonder (97 posts) - - Show Bio

Saying that any character is unrelatable is an excuse used by those lacking in creative vision.

#8 Posted by BloodyNights (181 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really think it matters too much. It's a little bit strange, but most people just care about the character I'd say. However the new origin imo is way....better. Much more interesting, and gives her more depth.

#9 Posted by Primebonnick (2737 posts) - - Show Bio

i didn't mind it hell thats like saying superboy was unrelate able because he was a clone.

#10 Edited by dshipp17 (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

Not having both parents is kind of a superhero staple.

  • Batman
  • Hal Jordan
  • Barry Allen
  • Peter Parker
  • Daredevil
  • Dick Grayson
  • Elektra
  • Johnny Blaze

All of these people have lost parents which directly or indirectly led to them being superheroes. If Wonder Woman not having a dad makes her unrelatable than these people are unrelatable too. For me personally, relating to characters in comics seems ridiculous. I don't have superpowers and I'm not rich.

I don't think keeping her clay origin is a logical comparison to these and the Batman and Superman origins; one set of examples is based entirely on a type of fact (e.g. having knowledge that you're an orphan) while the other is based entirely on fiction and still is subject to change. As I've previously stated, there's is no real fundamental change in Wonder Woman's origin, because it's the equivalent of finding out that the people who raised you had made you think they were your biological parents, but turned out to either have adopted you, and concealed that truth for your protection, or people who turned out to have kidnapped you as a baby, and concealed that truth from you, obviously to protect themselves, two concepts that real people can relate to and envision very easily. Essentially, Batman and Superman both lost their known biological parents; any change to that would be an actual change in their origin. In the case of Wonder Woman, her origin is subject to change yet again, as she has to have been born at some point in the past. I'd like to see it changed to her father either having been one of sailors on a one of the Amazon's raids or her father being a man that Hippolyta had a fling with and who she abandoned in order to return to Paradise Island; and than, bring back the concept from Marston of the Amazons having acquired their powers through hard work and training; such a change would be satisfactory for fans who may be Jewish, Christian (e.g. myself included), or Muslim, by far, the largest total existing religious group; it would support the picture of the Amazons as a group of idolaters, among other adjectives, and would be much more reliability to real life reality, since you bring up the issue of reliability. So, I'd go with the current origin as a bit more relatable, although it can become even more relatable if a human man/existing male entity turns out to be her father.

#11 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is not a relatable character regardless of her origin.

Moderator
#12 Edited by RustyRoy (13554 posts) - - Show Bio

Relating is overrated.

@saren said:

Wonder Woman is not a relatable character regardless of her origin.

#13 Posted by Super-Wonder (97 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really think it matters too much. It's a little bit strange, but most people just care about the character I'd say.

By and large, this is what it's all about.

#14 Posted by Muffin_Sangria (678 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think her clay origin was an issue, but I also don't think relatable is that big of an issue. A character doesn't have to relate to you for you to care about them. Although her point of relatability has always been her role as an outsider which I guess is still intact with the new origin. I don't mind her having a father now but my issue is with the changing of her source of power. Wonder Woman is very much a character built around the idea of female empowerment. As such the source of her powers should have remain as coming from a feminine source.

#15 Posted by 90mv (105 posts) - - Show Bio

Her relationship with her mother and other people makes her relatable.

#16 Posted by Pokeysteve (8558 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

As I've previously stated, there's is no real fundamental change in Wonder Woman's origin, because it's the equivalent of finding out that the people who raised you had made you think they were your biological parents, but turned out to either have adopted you, and concealed that truth for your protection, or people who turned out to have kidnapped you as a baby, and concealed that truth from you, obviously to protect themselves, two concepts that real people can relate to and envision very easily.

This is pretty ridiculous. It's a massive change. What you describe here is her current demi-god origin. Her previous Perez origin had her unique and one of a kind. Hippolyta's yearning for a child lead to the goddesses giving her one. Diana was a symbol for the Amazons. She was special. Her being Zeus' kid now takes all that away from her history and makes Hippolyta less interesting too.

and than, bring back the concept from Marston of the Amazons having acquired their powers through hard work and training; such a change would be satisfactory for fans who may be Jewish, Christian (e.g. myself included), or Muslim, by far, the largest total existing religious group; it would support the picture of the Amazons as a group of idolaters, among other adjectives,

I'm sorry to be harsh but changing her origin to please the Jewish, Christian and Muslim people is amazingly dumb and makes no sense. The Amazons don't need support as a group of idolaters because they already are. Religion can never influence comics since damn near every group's god exists and in many religions you're only supposed to recognize one. If we cater to those groups the world is in serious trouble. A change like that would also mean that ANYONE can gain superhuman stats through hard work and persistent training.

And like I said before, relatability in comics seems a little ridiculous to me. Lots of people read to escape their lives. To each his own with that though.

#17 Edited by deaditegonzo (3690 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont think it make her unrelatable, I think it is just less interesting than her being the daughter of Zeus.

#18 Posted by WonderWomanFan8 (219 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think her clay origin was an issue, but I also don't think relatable is that big of an issue. A character doesn't have to relate to you for you to care about them. Although her point of relatability has always been her role as an outsider which I guess is still intact with the new origin. I don't mind her having a father now but my issue is with the changing of her source of power. Wonder Woman is very much a character built around the idea of female empowerment. As such the source of her powers should have remain as coming from a feminine source.

I think the biggest problem I have when people discuss if WW is relatable or not, is how 'relatable' is being defined. I've always found WW's outsider quality compelling. I'm sure we've all been in that position, where we were in a place that felt foreign to us. And I totally agree with you about her source of power. WW used to draw her power from the Olympian Goddesses (and Hermes), and she had them, as well as her mother and sister Amazons as positive female role models. But now, Hippolyta's image has been tarnished further as a lying adulteress. Hera, the Goddess who Diana used to call on for strength, has been stripped of her powers. WW's source of power now comes from Zeus. And even though it's implied that she spent much more time training with the Amazons, it's also been suggested that War, another male, has provided her with superior training that the Amazons couldn't offer.

The encroachment of that male influence in her life now seems to have masculinized her character a bit too much.

#19 Edited by Marionettegeist (1912 posts) - - Show Bio

A character doesn't have to be realistic or resemble you in order to be "relatable", they just need to have relatable personalities.

#20 Edited by dshipp17 (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

@dshipp17 said:

As I've previously stated, there's is no real fundamental change in Wonder Woman's origin, because it's the equivalent of finding out that the people who raised you had made you think they were your biological parents, but turned out to either have adopted you, and concealed that truth for your protection, or people who turned out to have kidnapped you as a baby, and concealed that truth from you, obviously to protect themselves, two concepts that real people can relate to and envision very easily.

This is pretty ridiculous. It's a massive change. What you describe here is her current demi-god origin. Her previous Perez origin had her unique and one of a kind. Hippolyta's yearning for a child lead to the goddesses giving her one. Diana was a symbol for the Amazons. She was special. Her being Zeus' kid now takes all that away from her history and makes Hippolyta less interesting too.

and than, bring back the concept from Marston of the Amazons having acquired their powers through hard work and training; such a change would be satisfactory for fans who may be Jewish, Christian (e.g. myself included), or Muslim, by far, the largest total existing religious group; it would support the picture of the Amazons as a group of idolaters, among other adjectives,

I'm sorry to be harsh but changing her origin to please the Jewish, Christian and Muslim people is amazingly dumb and makes no sense. The Amazons don't need support as a group of idolaters because they already are. Religion can never influence comics since damn near every group's god exists and in many religions you're only supposed to recognize one. If we cater to those groups the world is in serious trouble. A change like that would also mean that ANYONE can gain superhuman stats through hard work and persistent training.

And like I said before, relatability in comics seems a little ridiculous to me. Lots of people read to escape their lives. To each his own with that though.

It's not ridiculous at all; you're just fighting your ability to understand the logic or want to be in denial about the logic; for example, changing Batman from facing the tragic loss of his family to say being raised by a warm, rich set of parents, as if they never died, where Batman did not experience the trauma of losing his family could have a profound effect on his drive and focus to his line of superhero work; obviously, Superman growing up with his parents and losing Kypton as an adult is going top profoundly change his approach to superhero; on the other hand, Wonder Woman, finding out that she has parents at 23 and was not some fantasy come to life does not affect her focus and drive to being a superhero; it just momentarily affects her emotions, at least momentarily as compared to the case of Batman; one group is a clear and legitimate origin change.

There's is no equivalence between Jews, Christians, and Muslims, since this group makes up more than 75% of the global population; discarding this group for one of the more obscure religions or for the non-religious is just bad business sense. And, if you were understanding my comments to any degree, than you understand that it was not necessarily saying that she should become monotheistic instead, just more distant from making the Olympians appear real or closer to having not decided on rather to become religious, just like a lot of people tend to be as opposed to apathetic to becoming religious like the atheists; making her face the fact that her father was one of the sailors or a man that Hippolyta decided to abandon to return to Paradise Island goes a long way in that direction.

#21 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

Changing her origin took it (her origin) from unique to a female hercules inho.

I'm just glad azz run has being well writing to avoid falling into that trap.

#22 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

Not in the slightest, some moron said it once and a bunch of sheep, continued to repeat it because they haven´t a mind of their own.

#23 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

Wonder Woman is not a relatable character regardless of her origin.

#24 Posted by Pokeysteve (8558 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

It's not ridiculous at all; you're just fighting your ability to understand the logic or want to be in denial about the logic; for example, changing Batman from facing the tragic loss of his family to say being raised by a warm, rich set of parents, as if they never died, where Batman did not experience the trauma of losing his family could have a profound effect on his drive and focus to his line of superhero work; obviously, Superman growing up with his parents and losing Kypton as an adult is going top profoundly change his approach to superhero; on the other hand, Wonder Woman, finding out that she has parents at 23 and was not some fantasy come to life does not affect her focus and drive to being a superhero; it just momentarily affects her emotions, at least momentarily as compared to the case of Batman; one group is a clear and legitimate origin change.

There's is no equivalence between Jews, Christians, and Muslims, since this group makes up more than 75% of the global population; discarding this group for one of the more obscure religions or for the non-religious is just bad business sense. And, if you were understanding my comments to any degree, than you understand that it was not necessarily saying that she should become monotheistic instead, just more distant from making the Olympians appear real or closer to having not decided on rather to become religious, just like a lot of people tend to be as opposed to apathetic to becoming religious like the atheists; making her face the fact that her father was one of the sailors or a man that Hippolyta decided to abandon to return to Paradise Island goes a long way in that direction.

I think maybe you're confused about the word "origin".

Insisting that writers change a character that's over 70 years old to appease a religious group is stupid. Just plain and simple. What about Shazam, Black Adam, Cheetah, Circe, Thor, Odin, Loki, and ALL the other characters in comics that exist because of other religions? Should we change all those too?

If I'm understanding you correctly you're saying we should leave the Olympians mythical figures, yes? The problem with that is, in Diana's world, they ARE real. Superman is often compared to Jesus and is one of the most popular superheroes in the world. Iron Man is an atheist and is also one of the most popular heroes in the world. Altering the Olympians is unnecessary and the number of Christians that are devout enough for it to be a factor in them not reading her isn't big enough for DC to care about.

#25 Edited by dshipp17 (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

@dshipp17 said:

It's not ridiculous at all; you're just fighting your ability to understand the logic or want to be in denial about the logic; for example, changing Batman from facing the tragic loss of his family to say being raised by a warm, rich set of parents, as if they never died, where Batman did not experience the trauma of losing his family could have a profound effect on his drive and focus to his line of superhero work; obviously, Superman growing up with his parents and losing Kypton as an adult is going top profoundly change his approach to superhero; on the other hand, Wonder Woman, finding out that she has parents at 23 and was not some fantasy come to life does not affect her focus and drive to being a superhero; it just momentarily affects her emotions, at least momentarily as compared to the case of Batman; one group is a clear and legitimate origin change.

There's is no equivalence between Jews, Christians, and Muslims, since this group makes up more than 75% of the global population; discarding this group for one of the more obscure religions or for the non-religious is just bad business sense. And, if you were understanding my comments to any degree, than you understand that it was not necessarily saying that she should become monotheistic instead, just more distant from making the Olympians appear real or closer to having not decided on rather to become religious, just like a lot of people tend to be as opposed to apathetic to becoming religious like the atheists; making her face the fact that her father was one of the sailors or a man that Hippolyta decided to abandon to return to Paradise Island goes a long way in that direction.

I think maybe you're confused about the word "origin".

Insisting that writers change a character that's over 70 years old to appease a religious group is stupid. Just plain and simple. What about Shazam, Black Adam, Cheetah, Circe, Thor, Odin, Loki, and ALL the other characters in comics that exist because of other religions? Should we change all those too?

If I'm understanding you correctly you're saying we should leave the Olympians mythical figures, yes? The problem with that is, in Diana's world, they ARE real. Superman is often compared to Jesus and is one of the most popular superheroes in the world. Iron Man is an atheist and is also one of the most popular heroes in the world. Altering the Olympians is unnecessary and the number of Christians that are devout enough for it to be a factor in them not reading her isn't big enough for DC to care about.

Let me spring this little surprise on you: Thor, Odin, Loki, Shazam, and Circle actually represent their religions, so any logic you thought that you made just falls apart. In the cases of Cheetah and Wonder Woman, only small parts of their histories have tried to integrate them into the ancient Greek religion that is the Olympians; we just happen to be in a pocket of that small history where the current writer was given free rein to saturate us with his learning of the Olympians. Since Wonder Woman is just integrating Greek Mythology, at times, such can easy be reduced to a point where Wonder Woman can be non religious and speculate about all of the world religions, particularly Christianity. Doing my suggestion would pull Wonder Woman from a specialized niche market and place her into general niche market that is vastly larger and increases her prospects for greater success; oh course, with some of the suggestions I've made, turning Wonder Woman into a Christian would spoil those suggestion, also; maybe after Wonder Woman has undergo this baptism I suggest, but not quite, just yet; sorry, but her entire 70 year history has not so integrated her into the Olympian religion as the current writer is so focused; this comment appears to be that of someone who's very new to Wonder Woman, someone who's forgetful, or someone who is in denial about a good point and is trying to confuse the new. And the writer has made a change to Wonder Woman's beginnings; the discussion is whether that change is as profound as you suggest, to which I said nay, especially putting Batman in the mix to suggest changing the trauma he experienced with the loss of his parents spurring him into taking the mantle of Batman. Put it this way: I would find a Superman who just recently witnessed Krypton blown up much more frightening than a Superman that was sent away from Krypton by his parents as a baby, just before it blew up; the former would probably be a much more ruthless character with great powers, clearly different than we know Superman; the former would probably have at least stalemated Doomsday. And to point out something else: the comparison of Superman to Jesus is a recent extrapolation from the most recent movie; the one before that was comparing him to Moses; interesting, tell me some of the comparisons you make between Jesus and Superman? I'd like to read those comparisons.

#26 Posted by PowerWoman (3576 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: @saren: @tdk_1997: WW's life is a never ending drama,she was brought to life by gods,and her life as a princess in nothing more than a life full of women that bully her and misjudge her all the time,she is literally an impposible princess,being the only woman born on paradise island,the only one with divine blessings,the other amazons constantly make her feel out of place,and it doesn't help that she also is the only amazon with an open mind realizing that amazon and gods world is not perfect,they just make her feel like a rare bug because of that,she trys to connect her world with the human world,she trys to make the amazons regain the bond with their humanity,to stop all the judgement,try to make them stop blaming the men for everything,making them see their own mistakes and imperfections,she also has to deal with the gods treating her like a tool to do the dirty job for them,so dealing with finding her true identity is a flaw for her,because we have seen many times before that she doesn't feel confortable with the way amazons,humans and gods see her,they don't look at her for who she is,they look at her and only see what they want her to be,it's hard when you are around people that don't care about you,people that only see you as a tool to use when times get rough and can be replaceable,and yes that makes her feel like she doesn't belong to any place,even in the human world she is unfairly judged by the people she wants to protect,it takes a lot of strength to be herself when nobody cares to see beyond the surface,it takes a lot of strength to overcome those odds,to know she is more than what some people see,more than what they reduce her to be,she refuses to be an stereotype,she never had anybody to look up to,even her mother misunderstands her concern about the outside world,so she found inside the strength to stand up for herself and be confortable in her own skin,and here we have somethig that makes her relatable,fictional characters don't have to be realistic or resemble you to be relatable,they just need to have relatable personalities,WW lived a life where countless times other amazons made her feel out of place,when she got the oportunity,she goes against her mother's words and leaves the island to see the world,experience new things,taking the chance to leave a luxurious life where she ionly has one duty,take her mother's place as a queen,but she leaves it all ehind because she wants more than that,right there that part of her personality makes her relatable to anybody in real life that had a similar situation,problems at home,having to deal with parents thatwant you to do what they want,like takeing over the family business,and taking the desicion of leaving to live your own life,folow your own ambitions,and of course the them about female empowerment,that shows females tha they can be more than what society wants them to be,and to think of themselves as equals next to men,another part of WW's pesonality that makes her relatable,so yes,WW has flaws related to an identity crisis,related to prejudices and gender and personality about takling control of your own life and following your own ambitions,these things make her relatable.

#27 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: @saren: @tdk_1997: WW's life is a never ending drama,she was brought to life by gods,and her life as a princess in nothing more than a life full of women that bully her and misjudge her all the time,she is literally an impposible princess,being the only woman born on paradise island,the only one with divine blessings,the other amazons constantly make her feel out of place,and it doesn't help that she also is the only amazon with an open mind realizing that amazon and gods world is not perfect,they just make her feel like a rare bug because of that,she trys to connect her world with the human world,she trys to make the amazons regain the bond with their humanity,to stop all the judgement,try to make them stop blaming the men for everything,making them see their own mistakes and imperfections,she also has to deal with the gods treating her like a tool to do the dirty job for them,so dealing with finding her true identity is a flaw for her,because we have seen many times before that she doesn't feel confortable with the way amazons,humans and gods see her,they don't look at her for who she is,they look at her and only see what they want her to be,it's hard when you are around people that don't care about you,people that only see you as a tool to use when times get rough and can be replaceable,and yes that makes her feel like she doesn't belong to any place,even in the human world she is unfairly judged by the people she wants to protect,it takes a lot of strength to be herself when nobody cares to see beyond the surface,it takes a lot of strength to overcome those odds,to know she is more than what some people see,more than what they reduce her to be,she refuses to be an stereotype,she never had anybody to look up to,even her mother misunderstands her concern about the outside world,so she found inside the strength to stand up for herself and be confortable in her own skin,and here we have somethig that makes her relatable,fictional characters don't have to be realistic or resemble you to be relatable,they just need to have relatable personalities,WW lived a life where countless times other amazons made her feel out of place,when she got the oportunity,she goes against her mother's words and leaves the island to see the world,experience new things,taking the chance to leave a luxurious life where she ionly has one duty,take her mother's place as a queen,but she leaves it all ehind because she wants more than that,right there that part of her personality makes her relatable to anybody in real life that had a similar situation,problems at home,having to deal with parents thatwant you to do what they want,like takeing over the family business,and taking the desicion of leaving to live your own life,folow your own ambitions,and of course the them about female empowerment,that shows females tha they can be more than what society wants them to be,and to think of themselves as equals next to men,another part of WW's pesonality that makes her relatable,so yes,WW has flaws related to an identity crisis,related to prejudices and gender and personality about takling control of your own life and following your own ambitions,these things make her relatable.

Very much this. A true Wonder Woman fan. If only the new 52 fans could understand this is the superior version over the one the ones thats a female version of Hercules/Kratos.

#28 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (12269 posts) - - Show Bio

Because having a Greek God for a father is more relatable?

#29 Posted by PowerWoman (3576 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

Because having a Greek God for a father is more relatable?

She's not relatable because she's cloyingly perfect and everything was handed to her on a silver platter. Rucka's Wonder Woman was a beardless Jesus. Put Jesus, Snow white and Hercules in a food processor and you've got Wonder Woman. She's privileged, she's beautiful and every one of her enemies is jealous. Being the God of War, having that to deal with, a burden can bring so much to this character in my opinion.

#31 Posted by Super-Wonder (97 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the biggest problem I have when people discuss if WW is relatable or not, is how 'relatable' is being defined.

This is the greater question. With so many different perspectives on what Wonder Woman's challenges are, there cannot be a definitive answer. The true challenge is not within the character but the writer's vision and ability to execute the character. Relateble is only relative to the creative team's vision and ability to make Wonder Woman "relatable". Any incarnation of her does not mean that she's not a person, who has to deal with and resolve situations like a any person would have to, powers or not.

She's not relatable because she's cloyingly perfect and everything was handed to her on a silver platter. Rucka's Wonder Woman was a beardless Jesus. Put Jesus, Snow white and Hercules in a food processor and you've got Wonder Woman. She's privileged, she's beautiful and every one of her enemies is jealous. Being the God of War, having that to deal with, a burden can bring so much to this character in my opinion.

Wow, I had to look up the word "Cloyingly". LOL.
My ignorance aside, I don't think this is a definitive reason/explanation/proof for why Wonder Woman "is" unrelatable. My feeling is that she isn't unrelatable at all but has been mired in this notion as an excuse for the lack of development of peripheral stories, multimedia projects and merchandise, that everyone has simply chosen to subscribe to.

Wonder Woman's 2009 animated movie was a story worthy of live action treatment, she and her culture are laid bare for the audience to associate with on different levels. Totally relatable.

#32 Posted by Super-Wonder (97 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: @saren: @tdk_1997: WW's life is a never ending drama,she was brought to life by gods,and her life as a princess in nothing more than a life full of women that bully her and misjudge her all the time,she is literally an impposible princess,being the only woman born on paradise island,the only one with divine blessings,the other amazons constantly make her feel out of place,and it doesn't help that she also is the only amazon with an open mind realizing that amazon and gods world is not perfect,they just make her feel like a rare bug because of that,she trys to connect her world with the human world,she trys to make the amazons regain the bond with their humanity,to stop all the judgement,try to make them stop blaming the men for everything,making them see their own mistakes and imperfections,she also has to deal with the gods treating her like a tool to do the dirty job for them,so dealing with finding her true identity is a flaw for her,because we have seen many times before that she doesn't feel confortable with the way amazons,humans and gods see her,they don't look at her for who she is,they look at her and only see what they want her to be,it's hard when you are around people that don't care about you,people that only see you as a tool to use when times get rough and can be replaceable,and yes that makes her feel like she doesn't belong to any place,even in the human world she is unfairly judged by the people she wants to protect,it takes a lot of strength to be herself when nobody cares to see beyond the surface,it takes a lot of strength to overcome those odds,to know she is more than what some people see,more than what they reduce her to be,she refuses to be an stereotype,she never had anybody to look up to,even her mother misunderstands her concern about the outside world,so she found inside the strength to stand up for herself and be confortable in her own skin,and here we have somethig that makes her relatable,fictional characters don't have to be realistic or resemble you to be relatable,they just need to have relatable personalities,WW lived a life where countless times other amazons made her feel out of place,when she got the oportunity,she goes against her mother's words and leaves the island to see the world,experience new things,taking the chance to leave a luxurious life where she ionly has one duty,take her mother's place as a queen,but she leaves it all ehind because she wants more than that,right there that part of her personality makes her relatable to anybody in real life that had a similar situation,problems at home,having to deal with parents thatwant you to do what they want,like takeing over the family business,and taking the desicion of leaving to live your own life,folow your own ambitions,and of course the them about female empowerment,that shows females tha they can be more than what society wants them to be,and to think of themselves as equals next to men,another part of WW's pesonality that makes her relatable,so yes,WW has flaws related to an identity crisis,related to prejudices and gender and personality about takling control of your own life and following your own ambitions,these things make her relatable.

Wow! These have to be the most articulate couple of run-on sentences that I have ever seen in defense of the "relatable" question. Nicely done :)

#33 Edited by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

Alot people don't have both parents how is that unrelatable ?

#34 Posted by PowerWoman (3576 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizoom: fictional characters don't even have to be realistic or resemble you to be relatable,they just need to have relatable personalities,WW lived a life where countless times other amazons made her feel out of place,she had everything handed to her on a silver plate but she never felt complete and free to be herself,because nobody cared about how she felt or what she thinks,when she thinks of the outside world the other amazons want to pretend that it's not there,they refuse to think outside the box while diana has broadmindedness,so when she got the oportunity,she goes against her mother's words and leaves the island to see the world,experience new things,she leaves a luxurious life behind,she left it all to go to an strange world,willing to make something out of herself,something more than a princess inside an isolated paradise,where she only has one duty,take her mother's place as a queen,but she leaves it all behind because she wants more than that,right there that part of her personality makes her relatable to anybody in real life that had a similar situation,problems at home,having to deal with parents that want you to do what they want,like takeing over the family business,and taking the desicion of leaving to live your own life,follow your own ambitions,wanting to do something out of yourself,taking control of your own life,take the initiative,and of course the theme about female empowerment,that shows females tha they can be more than what society wants them to be,and to think of themselves as equals next to men,another part of WW's pesonality that makes her relatable,so yes,WW has flaws related to an identity crisis,related to prejudices and gender and personality about takling control of your own life and following your own ambitions,these things make her relatable.

#36 Posted by Pokeysteve (8558 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

Let me spring this little surprise on you: Thor, Odin, Loki, Shazam, and Circle actually represent their religions, so any logic you thought that you made just falls apart. In the cases of Cheetah and Wonder Woman, only small parts of their histories have tried to integrate them into the ancient Greek religion that is the Olympians; we just happen to be in a pocket of that small history where the current writer was given free rein to saturate us with his learning of the Olympians. Since Wonder Woman is just integrating Greek Mythology, at times, such can easy be reduced to a point where Wonder Woman can be non religious and speculate about all of the world religions, particularly Christianity. Doing my suggestion would pull Wonder Woman from a specialized niche market and place her into general niche market that is vastly larger and increases her prospects for greater success; oh course, with some of the suggestions I've made, turning Wonder Woman into a Christian would spoil those suggestion, also; maybe after Wonder Woman has undergo this baptism I suggest, but not quite, just yet; sorry, but her entire 70 year history has not so integrated her into the Olympian religion as the current writer is so focused; this comment appears to be that of someone who's very new to Wonder Woman, someone who's forgetful, or someone who is in denial about a good point and is trying to confuse the new. And the writer has made a change to Wonder Woman's beginnings; the discussion is whether that change is as profound as you suggest, to which I said nay, especially putting Batman in the mix to suggest changing the trauma he experienced with the loss of his parents spurring him into taking the mantle of Batman. Put it this way: I would find a Superman who just recently witnessed Krypton blown up much more frightening than a Superman that was sent away from Krypton by his parents as a baby, just before it blew up; the former would probably be a much more ruthless character with great powers, clearly different than we know Superman; the former would probably have at least stalemated Doomsday. And to point out something else: the comparison of Superman to Jesus is a recent extrapolation from the most recent movie; the one before that was comparing him to Moses; interesting, tell me some of the comparisons you make between Jesus and Superman? I'd like to read those comparisons.

Looks like you completely missed my point about the others. You're implying that I'm " someone who's very new to Wonder Woman, someone who's forgetful, or someone who is in denial about a good point and is trying to confuse the new." and yet you don't realize Greek mythology and the Olympians have been an integral part of her origin, story and universe since her creation. Amazing. They've explored other religions pre 52. as far as I know, the Christian god and Jesus have never made an appearance in any DC comic, in continuity. All of a sudden you want Wonder Woman to be a Christian. Just wow. I didn't read you're whole paragraph because, honestly, I don't enjoy talking to you in the least and I'm sure I'm not alone. I could elaborate but really now, if you want to take the Greek out of a Greek character, what can I really say you know haha. We're done.

#37 Edited by dshipp17 (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

@dshipp17 said:

Let me spring this little surprise on you: Thor, Odin, Loki, Shazam, and Circle actually represent their religions, so any logic you thought that you made just falls apart. In the cases of Cheetah and Wonder Woman, only small parts of their histories have tried to integrate them into the ancient Greek religion that is the Olympians; we just happen to be in a pocket of that small history where the current writer was given free rein to saturate us with his learning of the Olympians. Since Wonder Woman is just integrating Greek Mythology, at times, such can easy be reduced to a point where Wonder Woman can be non religious and speculate about all of the world religions, particularly Christianity. Doing my suggestion would pull Wonder Woman from a specialized niche market and place her into general niche market that is vastly larger and increases her prospects for greater success; oh course, with some of the suggestions I've made, turning Wonder Woman into a Christian would spoil those suggestion, also; maybe after Wonder Woman has undergo this baptism I suggest, but not quite, just yet; sorry, but her entire 70 year history has not so integrated her into the Olympian religion as the current writer is so focused; this comment appears to be that of someone who's very new to Wonder Woman, someone who's forgetful, or someone who is in denial about a good point and is trying to confuse the new. And the writer has made a change to Wonder Woman's beginnings; the discussion is whether that change is as profound as you suggest, to which I said nay, especially putting Batman in the mix to suggest changing the trauma he experienced with the loss of his parents spurring him into taking the mantle of Batman. Put it this way: I would find a Superman who just recently witnessed Krypton blown up much more frightening than a Superman that was sent away from Krypton by his parents as a baby, just before it blew up; the former would probably be a much more ruthless character with great powers, clearly different than we know Superman; the former would probably have at least stalemated Doomsday. And to point out something else: the comparison of Superman to Jesus is a recent extrapolation from the most recent movie; the one before that was comparing him to Moses; interesting, tell me some of the comparisons you make between Jesus and Superman? I'd like to read those comparisons.

Looks like you completely missed my point about the others. You're implying that I'm " someone who's very new to Wonder Woman, someone who's forgetful, or someone who is in denial about a good point and is trying to confuse the new." and yet you don't realize Greek mythology and the Olympians have been an integral part of her origin, story and universe since her creation. Amazing. They've explored other religions pre 52. as far as I know, the Christian god and Jesus have never made an appearance in any DC comic, in continuity. All of a sudden you want Wonder Woman to be a Christian. Just wow. I didn't read you're whole paragraph because, honestly, I don't enjoy talking to you in the least and I'm sure I'm not alone. I could elaborate but really now, if you want to take the Greek out of a Greek character, what can I really say you know haha. We're done.

You completely missed everything I said; it's very clear that you didn't read everything that I said; I didn't say that the Olympians were not apart of Wonder Woman; I didn't say Jesus made an appearance in the Wonder Woman comics; I clearly know Greek myth is apart of Wonder Woman; you missed a lot of key points and didn't answer a question to clarify what was clearly an extraordinary assertion about Superman; I don't mind you being done after an incoherent babble, created by not reading before making a response. If you're not new or one of those things that I mentioned, than I'd suggest not commenting further about Wonder Woman with anyone outside of the latest published Wonder Woman issue.

#38 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: Tell gokuwarrior to be a little less obvious next time.

Moderator
#39 Posted by LyraFay (2536 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I think its adds to her Greek mythological background but DC whilst does have relatable characters, those characters have always been mythological regardless of their origin.

#40 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (772 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#41 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: @saren: @tdk_1997: WW's life is a never ending drama,she was brought to life by gods,and her life as a princess in nothing more than a life full of women that bully her and misjudge her all the time,she is literally an impposible princess,being the only woman born on paradise island,the only one with divine blessings,the other amazons constantly make her feel out of place,and it doesn't help that she also is the only amazon with an open mind realizing that amazon and gods world is not perfect,they just make her feel like a rare bug because of that,she trys to connect her world with the human world,she trys to make the amazons regain the bond with their humanity,to stop all the judgement,try to make them stop blaming the men for everything,making them see their own mistakes and imperfections,she also has to deal with the gods treating her like a tool to do the dirty job for them,so dealing with finding her true identity is a flaw for her,because we have seen many times before that she doesn't feel confortable with the way amazons,humans and gods see her,they don't look at her for who she is,they look at her and only see what they want her to be,it's hard when you are around people that don't care about you,people that only see you as a tool to use when times get rough and can be replaceable,and yes that makes her feel like she doesn't belong to any place,even in the human world she is unfairly judged by the people she wants to protect,it takes a lot of strength to be herself when nobody cares to see beyond the surface,it takes a lot of strength to overcome those odds,to know she is more than what some people see,more than what they reduce her to be,she refuses to be an stereotype,she never had anybody to look up to,even her mother misunderstands her concern about the outside world,so she found inside the strength to stand up for herself and be confortable in her own skin,and here we have somethig that makes her relatable,fictional characters don't have to be realistic or resemble you to be relatable,they just need to have relatable personalities,WW lived a life where countless times other amazons made her feel out of place,when she got the oportunity,she goes against her mother's words and leaves the island to see the world,experience new things,taking the chance to leave a luxurious life where she ionly has one duty,take her mother's place as a queen,but she leaves it all ehind because she wants more than that,right there that part of her personality makes her relatable to anybody in real life that had a similar situation,problems at home,having to deal with parents thatwant you to do what they want,like takeing over the family business,and taking the desicion of leaving to live your own life,folow your own ambitions,and of course the them about female empowerment,that shows females tha they can be more than what society wants them to be,and to think of themselves as equals next to men,another part of WW's pesonality that makes her relatable,so yes,WW has flaws related to an identity crisis,related to prejudices and gender and personality about takling control of your own life and following your own ambitions,these things make her relatable.

She is a symbol that you should be strong no matter everything that happens to you but writers show us everything she represents in a weird way that not every single person would understand and will see the secret,hidden meaning you should get.

#42 Posted by dshipp17 (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd consider what JMS did as an origin change, if that were cannon; however, that was not cannon; Azzarrello did nothing close to as drastic as what JMS did with her origin.

#43 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

This is getting us no where lets just settle with New 52 fans hate the Clay origin and true Wonder Woman fans hate the demigoddess daughter of Zeus origin and leave at that.

#44 Posted by herrweis (437 posts) - - Show Bio

No super heroes orgin is relatable because THEY ARE SUPER HEROES

#45 Posted by SayaOtonashi (198 posts) - - Show Bio

One think Marston's had her not be the only child from clay. I wouldn't mind the amazons having children but the thing is unless the Island was completely magic and is larger on the inside than outside than yes but adoption of shipwreck children is better.

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