Do people here like Azz's current run on WW?

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#51 Posted by Crimson_Butterfly (33 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it at first now its just meh. Some of the designs of the Gods are ugly like Hades, Poseidon and Ares. The book should be called "Wonder Woman and the Olympians" the Gods are more interesting than the lead character.

#52 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

Not the best WW run but I'm learning to like it.

#53 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reginleif said:

I recently came from a place that hated this current run calling it an abomination and believing it should be cancelled. It was really bad, even the mods hated the run. Is this how people feel here?

I personally think its a bunch of crap, but some people around here seem to like it as its their first intro to WW, so I can understand from their point of view, because they don´t really know what the character has been in some of her best runs. But personally I think its less than garbage, I don´t think I´d even like it if I´d never read WW. I just think its awful. Most of the time it hardly has any dialogue, the character are lame and its supposed to be a horror, but Its not scary in the slightest. The supposed family drama at the centre is about as exciting for me as an episode of Big Brother.

#54 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goddessa:

Please don´t learn to like it, you seem really cool and I don´t want you subjected to such poor writing. :)

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE said:

@Katie24 said:

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE: I don't think at is new Wonder Woman is cold, stupid or inhuman. Wonder Woman is currently alot younger and inexperienced that the old Wonder Woman was. On top of that, she is very new to the world out side of Paradise Island. If she comes of as cold, it's probably because she feels like a fish out of water. I think that Azzarello's plan for Wonder Woman is to have her evolve and develop as a character into the old Wonder Woman in the Wonder Woman series. The readers just need to be patient and enjoy the awesome stories till then.

This story takes place five years after the events depicted in Justice League's first issues. She's been a hero for quite some time and she's not really dealing with the general public in Azz's run. Zola is the only human she's talked to in 9 issues so she's hardly been a fish out of water. We're told she's having fun at the rock concert but you'd never know it by the icy look on her face. In #1 she rudely snatched Zola thirty feet and let her land on the ground. The real Wonder Woman would have caught her.

She's told point blank the gods are untrustworthy yet she blindly trusts Lennox and follows his plan. She grew up on the island and had no idea how Amazons procreate. She owns a lasso of truth and had no clue the story she was told of her birth was a lie. She acts without thinking to rescue her "brothers" and doesn't even ask if they want to be rescued and stood there with egg on her face when they sided with their "father". Then she stupidly makes the same mistake in the next issue regarding the souls in Hades' realm. She's pledged to protect Zola but she's dragged off to hell while Diana is busy patting herself on the back. These are lapses in judgement pre-flashpoint Diana wouldn't have made while green as grass on her first day off Themyscira.

I couldn´t agree more, she´s pretty niave in this version, how on earth she didn´t know about what the Amazons were doing and how they had children is beyond me. Whats even more puzzling is why they´d lie to her about it. The lie about the clay birth is explained as a way to stop Hera from trying to kill her, but why lie about how the amazons have children? It doesn´t protect her from anything, further more surely that would have been a simpler way to explain Diana´s birth than the myth she was made from Clay. the whole story is a a shambles.

@Katie24: @Katie24 said:

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE: I thought the Wonder Woman title took place 5 years before Justice League. Anyway, I like the new Wonder Woman. The old one had zero personality, you could never get a feel for who she was as an individual. Wonder Woman is a warrior from an ancient culture she has killed and been in brutal battles, and it never made sense to me that she would be so bright and cheery all the time with that background. I think people who are so negative about this new Wonder Woman are just knit-picking and would hate it know matter what just because its new and a little different.

See this just show an absolute ignorance of the character. Its one thing to say you don´t like her, but base it on facts. When on earth did you hear that WW came from a brutal culture and killed and fought battles. Before she left Paradise Island (paradise might give you a clue) she was living in a utopian society, the only child of that society, and yes they were warriors, but they had long since the days of being abused by men, and therefore given their own Island, dedicated themselves to peace. They only trained as warriors because thats all they knew, and thats the warrior training WW got. So having come from a utopian society, you´d imagine maybe you would have a cheery and optimistic disposition. What doesn´t make sense on the other hand is Diana in Azz´s version, now comes from a blood thirsty, brutal and viscious society, and yet somehow being raised solely in this manner, she´s come to be so kind and virtuous. added to that they´ve lied to her for some bizarre unexplained reason as to the nature of this society her whole life. It is bad writing. A deus ex machina, is central the very essence of Azz´s Wonder Woman. I am seriously at a loss to see how people are unable to see this.

#55 Edited by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: Hahaha I know exactly how you feel. I've felt that before under Messner-Loebs. I was devastated, only my love and loyalty for WW made me buy it till he left the title. I felt he degraded Diana to mud level, imagine her working in taco whiz?! There were more WW action outside her very own title during Loebs run....but to be totally fair, Perez was a tough act to follow.

#56 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Loebs run was the one of the only ones where I started to see what people were saying about WW costume. It was so overtly sexualised it was ridiculous.

#57 Posted by Hoenhime (137 posts) - - Show Bio

I for one really like the new Diana. I like all the new 52 titles really. But maybe the reason I like the new WW is because I never really read a pre-flashpoint WW story, I really wasn't into dc so much. Though I did read batman and the flash and superman to some extent but I hater the charector and his stories, but I do seem to like the new 52 superman, but again that must be because I wasn't really reading all the stories so maybe I just read all the bad story arcs. But the new 52 was ment to be for new reader and it did please me and now I read several new 52 titles regularly, and I loved WW but again maybe thats because I am a new dc comics reader.

#58 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hoenhime: @Hoenhime said:

I for one really like the new Diana. I like all the new 52 titles really. But maybe the reason I like the new WW is because I never really read a pre-flashpoint WW story, I really wasn't into dc so much. Though I did read batman and the flash and superman to some extent but I hater the charector and his stories, but I do seem to like the new 52 superman, but again that must be because I wasn't really reading all the stories so maybe I just read all the bad story arcs. But the new 52 was ment to be for new reader and it did please me and now I read several new 52 titles regularly, and I loved WW but again maybe thats because I am a new dc comics reader.

I respect that, I like quite a few of the new titles as well.just got in Perrez on Superman and thought that was pretty good.

#59 Posted by MrArrogant (149 posts) - - Show Bio

I absolutely love the run. I was never a WW fan, and picked it up due to the strength of the art. I have always been a fan however, of Greek mythology, so it was really awesome to see these clever ideas and turned out to be exactly the sort of comic I wanted to read about. Currently feels like one of the only "fun and light" DC books have going for it. If more DC books were like this Id start buying more DC books again. (fun marvel books like dardevil, FF and hawekeye have lead to me dropping a lot of DC)

#60 Posted by KZR (487 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I prefer her portrayal in justice league. She seems completely different in her own series.

#61 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been a Wonder Woman fan since the late 70s and I find Azzarello's run to be the most dis-interesting ever. I've read several issues of it and found every issue to be boring, perverse, and/or offensive. Never have I felt such animosity towards a writer for a comic book. I really hope that Azzarello and Wonder Woman part ways soon and forever.

#62 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2639 posts) - - Show Bio

It's AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#63 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@KZR: I agree!

#64 Posted by Katie24 (488 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: Wonder woman has changed. Who she was or who you thought she was is not who she is in the New 52. Get over it. And stop stating your opinions like they are facts. I am not ignorant of the character, I was refering to the new version of Wonder Woman. And the title has been doing better than it has in a long time and it has been getting great reviews.

#65 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Katie24: @Katie24 said:

@Katie24: @Katie24 said:

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE: I thought the Wonder Woman title took place 5 years before Justice League. Anyway, I like the new Wonder Woman. The old one had zero personality, you could never get a feel for who she was as an individual. Wonder Woman is a warrior from an ancient culture she has killed and been in brutal battles, and it never made sense to me that she would be so bright and cheery all the time with that background. I think people who are so negative about this new Wonder Woman are just knit-picking and would hate it know matter what just because its new and a little different.

See this just show an absolute ignorance of the character. Its one thing to say you don´t like her, but base it on facts. When on earth did you hear that WW came from a brutal culture and killed and fought battles. Before she left Paradise Island (paradise might give you a clue) she was living in a utopian society, the only child of that society, and yes they were warriors, but they had long since the days of being abused by men, and therefore given their own Island, dedicated themselves to peace. They only trained as warriors because thats all they knew, and thats the warrior training WW got. So having come from a utopian society, you´d imagine maybe you would have a cheery and optimistic disposition. What doesn´t make sense on the other hand is Diana in Azz´s version, now comes from a blood thirsty, brutal and viscious society, and yet somehow being raised solely in this manner, she´s come to be so kind and virtuous. added to that they´ve lied to her for some bizarre unexplained reason as to the nature of this society her whole life. It is bad writing. A deus ex machina, is central the very essence of Azz´s Wonder Woman. I am seriously at a loss to see how people are unable to see this.

@jphulk26: Wonder woman has changed. Who she was or who you thought she was is not who she is in the New 52. Get over it. And stop stating your opinions like they are facts. I am not ignorant of the character, I was refering to the new version of Wonder Woman. And the title has been doing better than it has in a long time and it has been getting great reviews.

See katie, I presume your name is Katie; what opinion of mine in my statement isn´t a fact.

1. So you said before the New 52 WW had 0 personality.

That is an opinion. You may well be right, and I would be willing to grant you that.

2. But here´s where your point began to crumble, and where I began to take offense and suspect you had very little knowledge and probably had read very little if anything at all of WW before the New 52. You stated and I quote, after claiming you thought she had zero personality, that the character didn´t make sense for the following reasons: " Wonder Woman is a warrior from an ancient culture she has killed and been in brutal battles, and it never made sense to me that she would be so bright and cheery all the time with that background."

My reply to you, was to correct you on her origin; now I don´t know if you know the difference between an opinion and a fact, but my correction is fact when I retorted "When on earth did you hear that WW came from a brutal culture and killed and fought battles? Before she left Paradise Island (paradise might give you a clue) she was living in a utopian society, the only child of that society, and yes they were warriors, but they had long since the days of being abused by men, and therefore given their own Island, dedicated themselves to peace. They only trained as warriors because thats all they knew, and thats the warrior training WW got. So having come from a utopian society, you´d imagine maybe you would have a cheery and optimistic disposition." Now this statement is a fact, and shows your whole critique to be eroneous and probably based on no prior knowledge of the character, but instead pure prejudice. You´ve adopted a public opinion because its easier than you actually doing the research yourself. By the way WW has been often depicted as optomistic or at least trying to be, but I doubt since the silver age has she been depicted as being cheery. I think you´re thinking of the TV show maybe when you say that, which is quite different from the comic.

I´m not saying you´re wrong that she´s was a boring character; because that´s your opinion. What I take exception to is Azz fans, not just saying hey, I like this new take, but I haven´t read anything of WW before hand. Instead they try and justify Azz work by dissing what came before it, having never even bothered to read it. That is duplicitous.

3. As stated above I have no problem with you enjoying the current WW run. It´s unfortunate because I think its not very good and you´d be better off collecting some of her other critically acclaimed runs but that is your choice; but again, if you are going to argue argue from facts rather than fiction; and stop lying to yourself and circling round your own points " I am not ignorant of the character, I was referring to the new version of Wonder Woman." So here you are saying what I corrected you about, when I said your reasoning was false about the society she grew up in, you were in fact talking about the new WW? Because if you are then I´m sorry, I think you´re absolutely correct Azz´s WW is boring. But if as I suspect this is your attempt to slime your way out of the fact you were talking out of your ass, then you really need to grow a bit more character, cause your only lying to yourself honey.

"And the title has been doing better than it has in a long time and it has been getting great reviews." This has also been shown to be false, the title is level with pre-crisis WW. Its selling about the same, and looks to be on a downward turn. There was simply a spike in readership when the first volume came out, and recently simply because Orion was introduced. The rest of her comic sales as I´ve said have been on a downward spiral. You can check the sale reports for the year which I have put up in a seperate thread. The book is crap, spend your time reading better material is the only advice I have left for you. And finally please work out the difference between fact and opinion.

Happy New Year

@Power_Guy said:

I've been a Wonder Woman fan since the late 70s and I find Azzarello's run to be the most dis-interesting ever. I've read several issues of it and found every issue to be boring, perverse, and/or offensive. Never have I felt such animosity towards a writer for a comic book. I really hope that Azzarello and Wonder Woman part ways soon and forever.

I can´t wait for the day they announce his departure. Which should be soon if his sale keep going in the direction they going. I´ll be so happy, I´m not sure what I´ll do. Who would you like to take over writing duties on the title ideally?

@Goddessa:

Also can one of you explain to Katie, why this statement is wrong "The old one had zero personality, you could never get a feel for who she was as an individual. Wonder Woman is a warrior from an ancient culture she has killed and been in brutal battles, and it never made sense to me that she would be so bright and cheery all the time with that background. I think people who are so negative about this new Wonder Woman are just knit-picking and would hate it know matter what just because its new and a little different." (This is a quote from her about WW pre new 52)

Just so she understands I´m not just nit picking.

#66 Edited by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@Goddessa:

Also can one of you explain to Katie, why this statement is wrong "The old one had zero personality, you could never get a feel for who she was as an individual. Wonder Woman is a warrior from an ancient culture she has killed and been in brutal battles, and it never made sense to me that she would be so bright and cheery all the time with that background. I think people who are so negative about this new Wonder Woman are just knit-picking and would hate it know matter what just because its new and a little different." (This is a quote from her about WW pre new 52)

Just so she understands I´m not just nit picking.

I hope I am not assuming that she's a new WW reader. I will only state my opinion base on the fact that I have been reading the WW title since the reboot in Crisis On Infinite Earths, I wouldn't claim that I have the complete issues of all her comic books. Like any regular collector I have dropped some of her run, particularly when Artemis took the mantle of WW, and came back on board again just before the Omac saga, primarily due to shift in interest. I tried as much as I can to collect merchandises (from shirts, action figures, heroclix, Graphic Novels, Further Adventures of Wonder Woman, Justice League and JLU complete DVD series, complete WW Lynda Carter TV series to name a few) so that I have the feel of still being connected to my favourite fantasy super hero.

In saying the old WW or pre-New 52 Wonder Woman had zero personality is a false statement. Depending on how you define personality, but if I have to compare all the writers who have written Diana since after the Crisis of 86, I would say George Perez was the person who obviously captured the total embodiment of Wonder Woman. A technically capable and fierce warrior, trained since birth but only was able to engaged in a real battle when she left Paradise Island, she's naive yet very assured and confident. Her grand entrance to man's world in the LEGENDS series was probably the perfect way she was introduced with the rest of the Superhero community in the DCU. I would never forget when she bolted in the battle and lifted one of the robotic dogs from Apokolips and smashed it while the rest of the Justice League and other heroes where just in awe! Compare that to the TV Justice League series which was very lackluster for my taste.

To be fair, Azzarello has a very different take on Diana, I am slowly seeing her personality as the series progresses. I really like WW no 14, there was definitely a moment there that I saw the old Diana. What actually annoys me in the new series is the artwork! Probably one of the worst artist for Diana, the details is horrendous, lazy blank backgrounds, and very poor in using perspective!

In my personal opinion @Press Oblivion can do a much better job in the art department!

#67 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@Power_Guy said:

I've been a Wonder Woman fan since the late 70s and I find Azzarello's run to be the most dis-interesting ever. I've read several issues of it and found every issue to be boring, perverse, and/or offensive. Never have I felt such animosity towards a writer for a comic book. I really hope that Azzarello and Wonder Woman part ways soon and forever.

I can´t wait for the day they announce his departure. Which should be soon if his sale keep going in the direction they going. I´ll be so happy, I´m not sure what I´ll do. Who would you like to take over writing duties on the title ideally?

Well, my favorite runs on Wonder Woman were by Phil Jimenez, Alan Heinburg, and John Byrne so I'd be happy with any of them coming back to the title. As for newbies, I'd love to see Geoff Johns, Jeff Lemire, or James Robinson take a stab at this book. I love what Geoff is doing with Diana in Justice League and feel that he's developed her far more in his team book than Azzarello has done in his solo book.

As for the artist, Phil Jimenez(again), Terry Dodson, Don Kramer, Ivan Reis, or Nicola Scott all draw a very nice Wonder Woman IMO.

#68 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

Phil Jimenez is my 2nd favourite WW writer and one of my top WW artists of all time! Thanks for that info

#69 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goddessa said:

Phil Jimenez is my 2nd favourite WW writer and one of my top WW artists of all time! Thanks for that info

I haven´t read Jimminez, I have some on my computer that I skipped through, but I didn´t like so much. What should I read of his?

#70 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: If memory serves me right, that's where she battled the amped Silver Swan and the male Cheetah, I think also that's the series where Diana and Circe fought (the witch was showing great fighting and strength skills). Sorry I can pinpoint which issues because all my books from George Perez till up to the Maxwell Lord fiasco was left in a box in my parents house in another state. :)

#71 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goddessa: @Goddessa said:

@jphulk26: If memory serves me right, that's where she battled the amped Silver Swan and the male Cheetah, I think also that's the series where Diana and Circe fought (the witch was showing great fighting and strength skills). Sorry I can pinpoint which issues because all my books from George Perez till up to the Maxwell Lord fiasco was left in a box in my parents house in another state. :)

Alot of WW fans don´t like her killing Maxwell Lord. I thought it was cool, it didn´t bother me. It fitted for me and was consistent with the character and that battle with Superman was awesome. What didn´t you like about it?

#72 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: I loved it when she killed Maxwell Lord, I was like 'FINALLY she snapped!!!" Some fans don't like her having blood on her hands, might as well be Mother Teresa forever then. If I was Diana and Maxwell told me that there's actually no chance of stopping Superman's rampage aside from actually killing Superman...I'll break Superman's neck in a heartbeat! Hahaha

#73 Posted by darkman61288 (752 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Johns writing of her is terrible. She is so flat in JL.

#74 Posted by Wboy (442 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that people mention it, Azz's run is getting really stale. I mean I was looking forward to Orion but after reading it and having nothing happen..ugh

#75 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (741 posts) - - Show Bio

This is an excerpt from Tim Hanley's review, he says things I feel much nicer than I would put them..

Wonder Woman #13 Review OR Wonder Woman Gets Played AGAIN (This Is Becoming A Theme)

I didn’t hate Wonder Woman #13 by any means, but it was a LOT of setup that continued the “Wonder Woman getting fooled” motif I’m really getting bored with. While I knew the Orion stuff was a few issues off, and that Azzarello tends to save the good stuff for when Chiang is drawing the book, this issue was still pretty uneventful. Let’s dig into it, but first:

SPOILER ALERT!!

If you did not read this issue yet, I am about to RUIN it for you.

I mean, not much happened, so really it’s not THAT big of a deal this time.

But still.

SPOILERS!!

Wonder Woman sets off in search of Siracca, her half-sister and another of Zeus’ many illegitimate children. She’s got cool wind powers that let her hear everything that gets said, so she could be helpful in tracking down Hermes. She is, however, a little skittish.

Wonder Woman takes off to Libya to meet her and runs into some soldiers that she dispatches easily, and then she meets a little girl. Here’s where things went off the rails for me. The first half of the book was fairly uneventful, apart from that guy getting his head bit in half, but now Wonder Woman gets to both fail and be duped, so win-win.

She meets a little girl that had been hiding among the soldiers, and promises to keep her safe. The soldiers always hurt the little girl and her fellow visitors, but Wonder Woman says: "Not when I'm around, and I'm here."

They set off to the secret place where the villagers hide, which turns out to be Siracca’s palace. Siracca bombards Wonder Woman and the little girl with swords and knives, all of which Wonder Woman deflects, except for one that kills the little girl.

So Wonder Woman isn’t super great at being Wonder Woman. For six pages she was all “don’t worry, I’ll protect you” and then BAM the first thing they come across kills the kid with a sword right through the heart. I’m not super pleased about that. Wonder Woman doesn’t have to be perfect all the time, of course, but a lot of this run has involved Wonder Woman screwing up. She got all angry and stormed off and her mom got turned into a statue, Zola got nabbed a few times even though Wonder Woman had sworn to protect her… that sort of thing.

But don’t worry, because it was all an elaborate ruse!! That child was actually Siracca, who has lured Wonder Woman into her lair!! OH NO!! Cliffhanger.

It seems that Wonder Woman has been bamboozled yet again. This version of Wonder Woman just isn’t very bright. From “WHAT? Zeus is my father?” to “WHAT? My Amazon sisters raped and killed sailors?” to “WHAT? This fight was a distraction so you could take Zola?” TWICE to “WHAT? Hermes was playing us?”, people pull the wool over Wonder Woman’s eyes ALL the damn time in this series. It’s getting really old. Even when Wonder Woman has a rare moment of triumph, there’s usually a trick involved to pull the rug out from under her and spoil the victory.

When I reviewed the last issue, I talked about how the Amazons have been diminished and how the sources of Wonder Woman’s various strengths are all men now. At the same time, Wonder Woman’s been shown to be kind of a dope. She’s trusting and naïve to a degree that you just have to be concerned about the woman. This is not a particularly strong Wonder Woman. It’s not blatantly bad or anything like that, nor do I think it’s intentional, but the stories so far are adding up to a Wonder Woman who owes far more of her abilities to men than to women and who, on her own, isn’t all that bright. And that’s just not Wonder Woman to me.

Now, I still like this book. Not this issue particularly, because nothing of any real consequence happened, but the series as a whole. When it’s good, it’s REALLY good, and it’s capable of fantastic moments and great characters. But more and more I’m finding that I have to divorce this take on Wonder Woman from MY Wonder Woman, if that makes any sense. My smart, skilled Wonder Woman would have had this all wrapped up in a few issues, someone suitable would have been on the throne of Olympus, her mom would be alive, and Zola would have her baby. This Wonder Woman is a little more impulsive, a little more reckless, and far less clever. And that’s the only Wonder Woman we’ve got right now, apart from the one hooking up with Superman in Justice League and lord knows that’s not better. It’s a different take on the character, and I love the world that’s been built around her… it’s just sort of a bummer that Wonder Woman herself is one of my least favourite parts of that world.

Anyway, it was a dull issue and my Wonder Woman-related problems continue. But hopefully Wonder Woman #14 will have some more exciting things going on, and at the very least we’ll be one step closer to Orion!! I’m very curious to see what Orion’s up to. The supporting cast of this book is always spectacular.

Yeah, that was sort of a backhanded compliment.

#76 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@Goddessa said:

Phil Jimenez is my 2nd favourite WW writer and one of my top WW artists of all time! Thanks for that info

I haven´t read Jimminez, I have some on my computer that I skipped through, but I didn´t like so much. What should I read of his?

The whole run was golden! The first arc featured a team-up between Wonder Woman, Donna, Cassie, Batman, Nightwing, and Robin vs. the Joker and several other Bat-villains who were possessed by Ares' dead children. Later, Wonder Woman takes on the new Silver Swan, male Cheetah, Villainy Inc. along with Circe and just about every female villain ever in a giant team-up with virtually all of of DC's female heroes. What I liked about this run was the large variety of villains, guest-stars, and Phil's over-all characterization of Diana. The art was the best ever to boot!

#77 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@Power_Guy said:

@jphulk26 said:

@Goddessa said:

Phil Jimenez is my 2nd favourite WW writer and one of my top WW artists of all time! Thanks for that info

I haven´t read Jimminez, I have some on my computer that I skipped through, but I didn´t like so much. What should I read of his?

The whole run was golden! The first arc featured a team-up between Wonder Woman, Donna, Cassie, Batman, Nightwing, and Robin vs. the Joker and several other Bat-villains who were possessed by Ares' dead children. Later, Wonder Woman takes on the new Silver Swan, male Cheetah, Villainy Inc. along with Circe and just about every female villain ever in a giant team-up with virtually all of of DC's female heroes. What I liked about this run was the large variety of villains, guest-stars, and Phil's over-all characterization of Diana. The art was the best ever to boot!

Yes all this happened in Phil's run. I think this was also the run where Hippolyta went back in time to be the first Wonder Woman in the 40's that joined the Justice Society.

Again Phil's art is superb!!!

#78 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (741 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goddessa said:

@Power_Guy said:

@jphulk26 said:

@Goddessa said:

Phil Jimenez is my 2nd favourite WW writer and one of my top WW artists of all time! Thanks for that info

I haven´t read Jimminez, I have some on my computer that I skipped through, but I didn´t like so much. What should I read of his?

The whole run was golden! The first arc featured a team-up between Wonder Woman, Donna, Cassie, Batman, Nightwing, and Robin vs. the Joker and several other Bat-villains who were possessed by Ares' dead children. Later, Wonder Woman takes on the new Silver Swan, male Cheetah, Villainy Inc. along with Circe and just about every female villain ever in a giant team-up with virtually all of of DC's female heroes. What I liked about this run was the large variety of villains, guest-stars, and Phil's over-all characterization of Diana. The art was the best ever to boot!

Yes all this happened in Phil's run. I think this was also the run where Hippolyta went back in time to be the first Wonder Woman in the 40's that joined the Justice Society.

Again Phil's art is superb!!!

Nope, Hippolyta went back in time in Byrne's run. Phil's was super dope though. You could tell a real fan was writing it because he was the ONLY writer to fully embrace past continuity. He brought in Fury, costumes from the tv show, the Kingdom Come armor, reinvented the Cheetah, Silver Swan, Angle Man and Villainy Incorporated, as well as made Themyscira a group of magically floating islands which included Reformation Island and the Isle of Healing.

#79 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE: Man I need to get his stuff.

#80 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE said:

@Goddessa said:

@Power_Guy said:

@jphulk26 said:

@Goddessa said:

Phil Jimenez is my 2nd favourite WW writer and one of my top WW artists of all time! Thanks for that info

I haven´t read Jimminez, I have some on my computer that I skipped through, but I didn´t like so much. What should I read of his?

The whole run was golden! The first arc featured a team-up between Wonder Woman, Donna, Cassie, Batman, Nightwing, and Robin vs. the Joker and several other Bat-villains who were possessed by Ares' dead children. Later, Wonder Woman takes on the new Silver Swan, male Cheetah, Villainy Inc. along with Circe and just about every female villain ever in a giant team-up with virtually all of of DC's female heroes. What I liked about this run was the large variety of villains, guest-stars, and Phil's over-all characterization of Diana. The art was the best ever to boot!

Yes all this happened in Phil's run. I think this was also the run where Hippolyta went back in time to be the first Wonder Woman in the 40's that joined the Justice Society.

Again Phil's art is superb!!!

Nope, Hippolyta went back in time in Byrne's run. Phil's was super dope though. You could tell a real fan was writing it because he was the ONLY writer to fully embrace past continuity. He brought in Fury, costumes from the tv show, the Kingdom Come armor, reinvented the Cheetah, Silver Swan, Angle Man and Villainy Incorporated, as well as made Themyscira a group of magically floating islands which included Reformation Island and the Isle of Healing.

Ah yeah, thanks for clarifying that. It's been a while since I've read my old issues and I won't be able to re-read all of them for a few more years till I get the chance to get that box from my folks house :)

#81 Edited by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@SCORPIO_CASSADINE said:

@Goddessa said:

@Power_Guy said:

@jphulk26 said:

@Goddessa said:

Phil Jimenez is my 2nd favourite WW writer and one of my top WW artists of all time! Thanks for that info

I haven´t read Jimminez, I have some on my computer that I skipped through, but I didn´t like so much. What should I read of his?

The whole run was golden! The first arc featured a team-up between Wonder Woman, Donna, Cassie, Batman, Nightwing, and Robin vs. the Joker and several other Bat-villains who were possessed by Ares' dead children. Later, Wonder Woman takes on the new Silver Swan, male Cheetah, Villainy Inc. along with Circe and just about every female villain ever in a giant team-up with virtually all of of DC's female heroes. What I liked about this run was the large variety of villains, guest-stars, and Phil's over-all characterization of Diana. The art was the best ever to boot!

Yes all this happened in Phil's run. I think this was also the run where Hippolyta went back in time to be the first Wonder Woman in the 40's that joined the Justice Society.

Again Phil's art is superb!!!

Nope, Hippolyta went back in time in Byrne's run. Phil's was super dope though. You could tell a real fan was writing it because he was the ONLY writer to fully embrace past continuity. He brought in Fury, costumes from the tv show, the Kingdom Come armor, reinvented the Cheetah, Silver Swan, Angle Man and Villainy Incorporated, as well as made Themyscira a group of magically floating islands which included Reformation Island and the Isle of Healing.

How did I forget to mention all of that other good stuff? :)

He also brought Giganta more in line with her iconic Super Friends' version by turning her from an ape into a red-headed woman who could grow up to 50 feet tall. I loved his portrayals of Queen Clea and Dr. Poison as well.

Wonder Woman has so many good villains that most writers seem to be afraid to touch, which is why I believe so many fans that are not familiar with them think that she has no good villains beyond Cheetah, Circe, Giganta, Ares, and Dr. Psycho.

One of the major things about Azzarello's run that I don't understand is why he(and DC) would chose to focus the book on the Greek pantheon who are not even exclusive DC characters, especially in today's day and age when Greek mythology is long dead. Marvel, Dark Horse, Image, etc. could all put out a book similar to Wonder Woman featuring these characters given how little the book is actually about Diana, her familiar supporting cast, and rogues. I mean seriously, if you asked 20 common people on the street who Wonder Woman associates with, many of them would say "Steve Trevor", some of them would say "Etta Candy" but I"ll bet less than 2%(if any) of them would say "Strife".

#82 Posted by darkwingdan (189 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm really digging this current run by Azzarello. It's a very mature approach to the character in terms of characterization, themes, and storytelling. At the same time, it isn't afraid to revel in the outlandish elements of Wonder Woman's canon. It might be the best take on the character since JLA: A League of One or The Hiketeia.

#83 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to give it till the end of this year before I can finally say if Azzarello did a good run with WW. I would rather base my conclusion in comparison to all the other writers since I have read almost all her run post-COIE rather than compare Azz's run with just a couple or few writers. :)

#84 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkwingdan said:

At the same time, it isn't afraid to revel in the outlandish elements of Wonder Woman's canon. It might be the best take on the character since JLA: A League of One or The Hiketeia.

How? I´m not being argumentative but I´m at a loss to how you´ve come to this conclusion. he´s not enhanced any elements of her mythology from what I´ve seen, he´s just invented his own character instead.

#85 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@darkwingdan said:

At the same time, it isn't afraid to revel in the outlandish elements of Wonder Woman's canon. It might be the best take on the character since JLA: A League of One or The Hiketeia.

How? I´m not being argumentative but I´m at a loss to how you´ve come to this conclusion. he´s not enhanced any elements of her mythology from what I´ve seen, he´s just invented his own character instead.

Agreed. With the exception of the Greek Pantheon, he's jettisoned most of Diana's supporting cast, rogues, and familiar elements. Hippolyta is dead, Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Nemesis, Artemis, Cassie, Julia & Vanessa are MIA in Diana's solo book as are her rogues gallery, Invisible Jet, Diana Prince ID, and her job with the U.S. government.

#86 Posted by xtremekidx (576 posts) - - Show Bio

It wasn't in my initial pull list and i avoided it for a while....one day i was bored out of hell and read "one" issue and turns out the series has something to do with orion!!!that was when i had to read it...

#87 Posted by darkwingdan (189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Power_Guy said:

@jphulk26 said:

@darkwingdan said:

At the same time, it isn't afraid to revel in the outlandish elements of Wonder Woman's canon. It might be the best take on the character since JLA: A League of One or The Hiketeia.

How? I´m not being argumentative but I´m at a loss to how you´ve come to this conclusion. he´s not enhanced any elements of her mythology from what I´ve seen, he´s just invented his own character instead.

Agreed. With the exception of the Greek Pantheon, he's jettisoned most of Diana's supporting cast, rogues, and familiar elements. Hippolyta is dead, Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Nemesis, Artemis, Cassie, Julia & Vanessa are MIA in Diana's solo book as are her rogues gallery, Invisible Jet, Diana Prince ID, and her job with the U.S. government.

First, because this is a reboot/relaunch/whateveryouwanttocallit, just because these characters haven't shown up doesn't mean they don't exist. Secondly, that quote of mine doesn't make much sense without the sentence before it, where I said, "It's a very mature approach to the character in terms of characterization, themes, and storytelling." I've read quite a few WW stories, and most either (a) fully embrace the fantastical elements of the character, including the Greek mythology, but fall short in terms of tying it all together and telling a strong, cohesive story or (b) can tell a strong, tight story but shy away from the crazy Greek stuff. For example, look at The Hiketeia. Let me preface this by saying I absolutely love this story. However, once the premise of the story is established, you don't get a whole lot of the craziness that is part of the WW canon. Rather, you are faced with a battle of ethics between WW and Batman. It makes for a great dynamic and excellent storytelling, but largely ignores a lot of the mythology stuff.

In my experience reading Azz's WW, the strong, compelling story elements are there, but at the same time she's fighting monsters and regularly interacting with the gods of the Greek pantheon. It's hitting a nice balance there and, for that, I think this is one of the better takes on WW. Steve Trevor, Cheetah, the Invisible Jet and all that other stuff haven't shown up because the story doesn't call for them right now. It would feel very much forced and the quality of the story would suffer for it.

#88 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkwingdan: what examples of WW stories are you talking about. cause I think exactly the opposite. WW has had inconsistent writing, but the runs that have been good have dealt with both areas you´re talking about and more:

(a) fully embrace the fantastical elements of the character, including the Greek mythology, but fall short in terms of tying it all together and telling a strong, cohesive story or (b) can tell a strong, tight story but shy away from the crazy Greek stuff.

Rucka, Perrez, Simone, all far more mature and interesting takes on both the elements you´re talking about. The Greek Pantheon and Greek Mythology are featured, as well as her supporting cast and villains. It also manages to be consistent with her origin, mythology and maintains her powers and doesn´t change Wonder Woman into another character, like Azz is doing.

I also did not quote you out of context, you said this is a deeper more mature take on WW. My point was this might be a deep mature story (personally I don´t agree, but I´ll give you that) but it isn´t a wonder woman story. a) If you went to buy a superman comic, and found that in fact the story was that of Judge Dredd or James Bonds Skyfall, you could hold two things to be the case at the same time, you could say yeah this story is deep and mature, and even enthralling, but b) nonetheless it isn´t a superman comic which is what I paid for. Or to make it simpler, you ask for steak from a resteraunt and the waiter brings you a really nice chicken dish, even though the chicken is nice, that doesn´t mean the service was good and you could rightly complain as you didn´t get what you ordered. This is my problem with the story.I understand people who like it, but I can´t see why they can´t see how WW fans are dissapointed. That to me is just crazy. It just depends on who you are, are you the type who doesn´t mind having ordered steak but receiving a nice chicken dish, or are you the type who in fact was jonesing for a Steak and is pretty pissed of you didn´t get what you asked for.

By the way I say this not being a purist, but the elements as has changed just are too much, and I think broadly speaking unnecessary to tell his story; they don´t improve, expand, modernize, meditate on or examine WW character or mythology, instead they transform it into something that has little or no relation to the character.

#89 Posted by darkwingdan (189 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: Well, it's ultimately a matter of opinion. I happen to feel one way about it and you feel another. I think one thing we can agree on is, regardless of what people think of Azz's run, it (along with a certain romance in JL) has people talking about WW and increasing her exposure, which is ultimately a good thing for the character.

#90 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkwingdan: I suppose, but DC need to follow this up with stern action. If Azz´s run has a hardcore fanbase, fine, keep it running, but they need to bring out a second ww title. Bring back rucka, if he´ll ever work for them again and get him to do the story he was going to for ww earth one. which will be able to attract new readers cause it will start from the beginning.

But thanks for understanding and I respect your reply, most Azz fans don´t seem to get it; its not that I don´t like any of Azz´s stuff, I just don´t think this is his finest hour.

#91 Posted by Power_Guy (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkwingdan said:

@Power_Guy said:

@jphulk26 said:

@darkwingdan said:

At the same time, it isn't afraid to revel in the outlandish elements of Wonder Woman's canon. It might be the best take on the character since JLA: A League of One or The Hiketeia.

How? I´m not being argumentative but I´m at a loss to how you´ve come to this conclusion. he´s not enhanced any elements of her mythology from what I´ve seen, he´s just invented his own character instead.

Agreed. With the exception of the Greek Pantheon, he's jettisoned most of Diana's supporting cast, rogues, and familiar elements. Hippolyta is dead, Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Nemesis, Artemis, Cassie, Julia & Vanessa are MIA in Diana's solo book as are her rogues gallery, Invisible Jet, Diana Prince ID, and her job with the U.S. government.

First, because this is a reboot/relaunch/whateveryouwanttocallit, just because these characters haven't shown up doesn't mean they don't exist. Secondly, that quote of mine doesn't make much sense without the sentence before it, where I said, "It's a very mature approach to the character in terms of characterization, themes, and storytelling." I've read quite a few WW stories, and most either (a) fully embrace the fantastical elements of the character, including the Greek mythology, but fall short in terms of tying it all together and telling a strong, cohesive story or (b) can tell a strong, tight story but shy away from the crazy Greek stuff. For example, look at The Hiketeia. Let me preface this by saying I absolutely love this story. However, once the premise of the story is established, you don't get a whole lot of the craziness that is part of the WW canon. Rather, you are faced with a battle of ethics between WW and Batman. It makes for a great dynamic and excellent storytelling, but largely ignores a lot of the mythology stuff.

In my experience reading Azz's WW, the strong, compelling story elements are there, but at the same time she's fighting monsters and regularly interacting with the gods of the Greek pantheon. It's hitting a nice balance there and, for that, I think this is one of the better takes on WW. Steve Trevor, Cheetah, the Invisible Jet and all that other stuff haven't shown up because the story doesn't call for them right now. It would feel very much forced and the quality of the story would suffer for it.

I never implied that Azzarello made Wonder Woman's familiar supporting cast, rogues, Invisible Jet, etc. nonexistent, I simply said he jettisoned them from her solo book meaning they are not appearing in it. It would be like someone writing Superman and instead of having him interact with Lois, Jimmy, Perry, Lex, Metallo, Mr. Myx, Bizarro, etc., they only had him interact with other Kryptonians and he never appeared in the book as Clark Kent. Azzarello is concentrating on only one aspect of Wonder Woman's world and to me, that is very boring for starters.

#92 Posted by Wboy (442 posts) - - Show Bio

but like...ZOLA'S BABY. This better be a really good storyline.

#93 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish Superman would show up at least in one comic....Because so far it looks like WW is the only hero out there. Plus...in Azz Superman the JL was present.

#94 Posted by Target_X (379 posts) - - Show Bio

Currently one of my favorite comics.

#95 Posted by TheCannon (18906 posts) - - Show Bio

Currently my second favorite ongoing comic (right behind Thor: God of Thunder), though it had a one year reign as favorite.

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