Diana's duds

#1 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, I know. This topic had been done to death, but I want to give my own opinion. Also keep in mind that I'm still kinda confused about writing stuff on this site outside of messages. I'm not even sure if this is going in the right forum! Anyways, here's my two cents. 

There's been a lot of controversy surrounding Wonder Woman lately, be it the recently shelved tv series, or the "bold new direction" of the monthly comic book.One of the recurring complaints from fans seems to be the handling of the costume. What's even more shocking is that some are claiming that the apparent genericization of Wonder Woman's costume is an improvement! Ok, maybe that remark was a bit opinionated, but I just feel like some of the criticism is unfounded. My three main rebuttals against this argument are:

1. Is the costume really that demeaning?
A lot of people have compared Diana's costume to a swimsuit. Quite frankly, I don't see how a one-piece bathing suit it really that raunchy. In the world of women's beachwear, it's probably the most modest you can find besides a suit of armor or a body cast. It's also very similar to what ballet dancers wear for performances. You don't see any soccer moms going, "This is too sexy for mah daughter!" when it comes to those, so why in this case?

2. Genericization
My friend's and many others' common complaints with the new costumes is that it takes away the awe and "wonder" of the character, resulting in a generic Lara Croft/Manhunter/Black Canary/90s Biker Chick design. Could you imagine if they got rid of Superman's costume and instead he went around wearing a red biker jacket.............wait.......Ok, maybe you can pull that crap in Smallville, where they get NOTHING right, but would it "fly" in the comics? Quite frankly, I believe No tights, No flights(yeah, i went there).  How come Wonder Woman can not get similar respect? Why get rid of that recognizable outfit to simply "appeal to today's youth". Every other time they tried similar ideas with the character, THEY FAILED! 

3. Wonder Woman is an easy target
Characters like Witchblade, most of Gen13, and anyone Ed Benes draws( I still love you) are all overtly sexualized to the point of hilarity, particularly the former. How come none of these characters receive such flack for their "very family-friendly" short skirts, cleavage shots, and thong panties? Because they aren't as well known, even to comic fans. Thus, they're less of an easy target. Wonder Woman get's picked on because a lot of people know about her. No one wants to dig deep for something to complain about, otherwise it's not worth the energy. 

I'm gonna go ahead and cut this short, cuz I know I'm not that great at this( or maybe I'm shy, idk). Anyway, these are my thoughts, so like, discuss and such.
#2 Posted by MrDirector786 (43390 posts) - - Show Bio

You do make some good points.

#3 Posted by PowerHerc (81458 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems WW is a constant target of people who want to change her to suit their own politically correct idealism.   
She looks great and is great in her iconic togs, imo.
#4 Posted by joshmightbe (24597 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc: I'm not one for political correctness but if people ever want to see Wonder Woman in a good movie that people will take her seriously in she's gotta lose the swim suit look, also David E. Kelly's shiny latex is not the way to go unless they happen to be making a porn in which case its perfect 
#5 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmm

#6 Posted by Sydpart2 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

hmm Idk, with all the hints they've been dropping in the newest book I really think we should expect some kind of blend between the new and old look so I think that covers the first and second point to some degree, personally I like the argument JMS made which is the same one I made when people complained about Harley Quinns costume change for the games "What woman wears the same outfit for decades?"

#7 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't the swimsuit look closer to Greek dress of the past? Like so?

#8 Posted by Eet Mor Puppee (103 posts) - - Show Bio
@gravitypress: Really? That's authentic greek historical garb? Really? 
 
 
The reason that people think Wonder Woman's old costume is overly sexualized is because... (drum roll)... it is. Her sex appeal is a large part of why some men love her, and why I've got a tattoo of her. I love her classic outfit. It's iconic, it's revealing, and it's awesome. But if you want to create a female hero that females can enjoy, she should be dressed a bit more modestly. Women can be sexy without showing 70% of their skin. It's possible, really. A bit more boring for guys like me, but I'll live.   
 
If we're going to try and convince the Powers That Be to bring Wonder Woman's old costume back, we should also lobby for the arms and legs to be taken off of every male superhero's costume and for them to all suffer from Persistent Atomic Wedgies. Fair is fair.
#9 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol Honestly I have no clue. I just Googled it.

#10 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio
@jointron33 said:
Yes, I know. This topic had been done to death, but I want to give my own opinion. Also keep in mind that I'm still kinda confused about writing stuff on this site outside of messages. I'm not even sure if this is going in the right forum! Anyways, here's my two cents. 
There's been a lot of controversy surrounding Wonder Woman lately, be it the recently shelved tv series, or the "bold new direction" of the monthly comic book.One of the recurring complaints from fans seems to be the handling of the costume. What's even more shocking is that some are claiming that the apparent genericization of Wonder Woman's costume is an improvement! Ok, maybe that remark was a bit opinionated, but I just feel like some of the criticism is unfounded. My three main rebuttals against this argument are:

1. Is the costume really that demeaning?
A lot of people have compared Diana's costume to a swimsuit. Quite frankly, I don't see how a one-piece bathing suit it really that raunchy. In the world of women's beachwear, it's probably the most modest you can find besides a suit of armor or a body cast. It's also very similar to what ballet dancers wear for performances. You don't see any soccer moms going, "This is too sexy for mah daughter!" when it comes to those, so why in this case?

Well, I have to admit, I've OFTEN ASKED why anyone would want to fight crime or go to battle in a bathing suit... However, you raise some good points...   As for point 1 here:
 
Bathing suits AREN'T considered to be raunchy (at least by most people) when at the beach or a swimming pool... They are designed for 'swimming' after all...  But that doesn't mean they're appropriate for all occasions...  A woman wouldn't likely wear a bathing suit to say Church (I don't think), or a formal dinner.  Wearing a bathing suit to a P.T.A. meeting might be considered inappropriate...  But it is very much a question of taste...
 

2. Genericization
My friend's and many others' common complaints with the new costumes is that it takes away the awe and "wonder" of the character, resulting in a generic Lara Croft/Manhunter/Black Canary/90s Biker Chick design. Could you imagine if they got rid of Superman's costume and instead he went around wearing a red biker jacket.............wait.......Ok, maybe you can pull that crap in Smallville, where they get NOTHING right, but would it "fly" in the comics? Quite frankly, I believe No tights, No flights(yeah, i went there).  How come Wonder Woman can not get similar respect? Why get rid of that recognizable outfit to simply "appeal to today's youth". Every other time they tried similar ideas with the character, THEY FAILED! 
 
Agree with you here, although a biker outfit makes more sense in terms of fighting... Then again, the Amazons dressed very much like the greeks and their mode of dress would be more like her bathing suit outfit...

3. Wonder Woman is an easy target
Characters like Witchblade, most of Gen13, and anyone Ed Benes draws( I still love you) are all overtly sexualized to the point of hilarity, particularly the former. How come none of these characters receive such flack for their "very family-friendly" short skirts, cleavage shots, and thong panties? Because they aren't as well known, even to comic fans. Thus, they're less of an easy target. Wonder Woman get's picked on because a lot of people know about her. No one wants to dig deep for something to complain about, otherwise it's not worth the energy. 
 
 
Again, gotta agree with you here... I suspect those characters are getting the complaints as well, but Wonder Woman is the most well known...
 
Now, SHE is bullet proof and has a high level of invulnerability, so it does her no harm to expose skin... What doesn't make sense is characters that ARE NOT BULLET PROOF going into a battle scantily clad... Yes, they do look sexy, but sexy doesn't stop bullets... I don't think....
#11 Posted by SC (12670 posts) - - Show Bio

Just to randomly state upfront my preferences, I like her classic look, and her new look. Her armored look, and her bikers look, and I even have a few ideas about modifications I think I would like to see. I like them all pretty much. 
 
I think the issue of whether the old suit is demeaning must consider the fact that, often its not the suit, its the artist. Huge detail, since an artist can exploit anything to look demeaning, or gratuitously over sexualized. I would say the potential for her old suit to be more exploited and over sexualized is greater, and hence many peoples issues with it. Quite a bit of subjectivity enters the picture though, I mean I like the old uniform, and I like Wonder Woman the character even more. To me I imagine her standing tall in it, muscles tensed, looking up at the screen with a stern look and she looks like a pacifist warrior who is the embodiment of feminine power and general strength, glory and intelligence. Her old costume helps emphasis these details. Then again, if I pick up a book where she is bent over, and contorted in awkward poses to allow her butt and boobs to be seen in the same panel (its actually a pretty stock standard thing in comics that pose, must be hell on the spine) and her suit has shrunk a bit, and these things are done to emphasis her sex? Not that is to imply there will never be a situation where she would be required to twist in such a way, like in the heat of a battle, but again, its an exploitation/pander to audiences/demographics issue. If she is just standing around the JLA watchtower though? Its not a matter of trying to eliminate smaller outfits or sexiness from comics, its more a matter of what is appropriate and gratuitous. Imagine if Ballet class was taught by a teacher wearing what that uh lady from Eric Prydz music video. I am sure mothers would just yeah... lol Also on the flip side, another poster has already pointed out that in her new suit, there has been quite an emphasis.. well there was much talk about Jazz.  
 
I don't think the outfit was redesigned to appeal to todays youth. I know many long term fans of the character happy and many older non traditional Wonder Woman fans quite positive with her new look. Remember Diana's very first look and art style? Superman's as well? They evolved over time. I mean, what is it with these artists and their new art designs that take away the doll like look of the very first Wonder Woman panel? Of course I don't mean to imply that making the character more accessible to new people wasn't a large part of the plan as well. Big differences between Superman and Wonder Woman traditionally, is that he and Batman were a lot more successful financially and profitable. Why change something that ain't broke? Wonder Woman though? Aside from being iconic and a lot of non comic fans knowing who she is and what she looks like? Unfortunately beyond merchandizing sales, hasn't had quite as healthy a time with comic sales. Considering how well known she is, so her potential audience vs her actual audience, I'd say DC is doing pretty poorly. Might be a fan thing too. Point is, she will be subjected to change to try and promote growth. Funny thing is, DC has reached a point in their comics, where they actually feel they could be selling more with big changes and now Superman's look is indeed being likewise changed. Biker look Diana done reasonably well as well.  
 
Wonder Woman is an easy target because Wonder Woman reaches more people, influences more people, is more popular, has more potential to inspire. Its a downside sure, I don't like when she is criticized by anyone, then again, here is a line between criticizing the character and criticizing what has been done to the character. No one wants to dig deep for other examples, because no one cares (relatively) plus Witchblade for example has had a huge push in recent years to be less cheesecakey, and say a character like the Pro? She isn't made or drawn to be put on children's lunch boxes. For Pillow Cases? You won't see DC hire Ed Benes to do that design. Unless its a pillow case for am entirely niche set of customers... and the pillow won't be flat and oblong, possibly two round mounds. Wonder Woman has a broader appeal. That has pros and cons. I think this isn't really something that directly influences her outfit though, as per paragraph one. I would be down for a MAX style Wonder Woman mini series, which should not be intended for children, because it would cover important topics such as rape and abuse, and violence. Still its a matter of balance and what is appropriate.  
 
Great thread and great points. 

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#12 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

The Original Skirt/top would be my first choice, I find it tasteful...

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