Diana & Captian Marvel.

#1 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

Does it bother anyone else that the Gods that power Diana are either equal or stronger than Marvel's but, he's portrayed as stronger, faster, etc? Which one is really second to Superman?

#2 Posted by Shadowdoggy (3815 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate:
wait....Captain Marvel of Marvel (meaning Mar-vell or Noah-varr or one of those guys) or Captain Marvel of DC (meaning SHAZAM!!!)?
#3 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8736 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate said:
" Does it bother anyone else that the Gods that power Diana are either equal or stronger than Marvel's but, he's portrayed as stronger, faster, etc? Which one is really second to Superman? "
no, not at all why would it bother anyone? Their powers don't work the same way and Marvel's blessing from the lords of magic are much greater since he is their champion.
#4 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3742 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach: 
 
It's always irked me.
#5 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8736 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate: Why?
#6 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

huh?

#7 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3742 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @Evil Incarnate: Why? "
It never made sense to me. It like saying if I was was light as air and you were light as a breeze yet you're heavier than I am. Does that make sense od do I need a better example?
 
@Primmaster64 said:
" huh? "

Que?
#8 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate:









#9 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8736 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate said:
" It never made sense to me. It like saying if I was was light as air and you were light as a breeze yet you're heavier than I am. Does that make sense od do I need a better example?"
I see what you mean by the statement, but the problem is it doesn't apply to the situation you are asking about...
#10 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3742 posts) - - Show Bio
@Primmaster64 said:
" @Evil Incarnate:








"
WTF? lol
#11 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8736 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate: elseworld, don't ask...
#12 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate: @Crom-Cruach: 
lol
#13 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3742 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @Evil Incarnate said:
" It never made sense to me. It like saying if I was was light as air and you were light as a breeze yet you're heavier than I am. Does that make sense od do I need a better example?"
I see what you mean by the statement, but the problem is it doesn't apply to the situation you are asking about... "
How not? If he has the speed of Mercury and she the speed of Hermes how could he be faster? The enchantment by the lords of magic argument makes no sense. While yes he may be their champion she's a champion to her gods as well. Also wasn't it determined that the Greek gods were more powerful than their Roman counterparts who were in fact lesser avatars of them?
#14 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3742 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @Evil Incarnate: elseworld, don't ask... "
Oh okay. Oddly enough the thing that made me go wtf was Superman's hair. lol
#15 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8736 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate said:
"How not? If he has the speed of Mercury and she the speed of Hermes how could he be faster? "
Having the "speed of Hermes" in itself is a meaningless statement, because it has been show in that Wonder Woman cannot outrun the real Hermes... It's just a clever way to say "she has super-speed" 
 
@Evil Incarnate said:
" @Crom-Cruach said:
" @Evil Incarnate said:
" It never made sense to me. It like saying if I was was light as air and you were light as a breeze yet you're heavier than I am. Does that make sense od do I need a better example?"
I see what you mean by the statement, but the problem is it doesn't apply to the situation you are asking about... "
How not? If he has the speed of Mercury and she the speed of Hermes how could he be faster? The enchantment by the lords of magic argument makes no sense. While yes he may be their champion she's a champion to her gods as well.  "
Yes they do, they drew upon the all-powerful source of the rock of ages and gave him the ability to champion the power of good and magic. You can't compare that to Diana who is an amazon princess who receives relics forged by Hephaestus to allow her to represent her world in the greater earth. Captain Marvel's source of power if both different and much more powerful.
 
@Evil Incarnate said:
 Also wasn't it determined that the Greek gods were more powerful than their Roman counterparts who were in fact lesser avatars of them? "
You're mixing the differentiation between roman and Greek gods of Marvel with how DC is set up. The lords of Magic are not the same as the Greek gods.
 
And yes, before we get off track. This is one part of DC that is really complicated and would need clean up.
#16 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3742 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:

" @Evil Incarnate said:

"How not? If he has the speed of Mercury and she the speed of Hermes how could he be faster? "

Having the "speed of Hermes" in itself is a meaningless statement, because it has been show in that Wonder Woman cannot outrun the real Hermes... It's just a clever way to say "she has super-speed" 
 
That would make sense if it wasn't given to her by the actual Hermes...


 
@Crom-Cruach said:

" @Evil Incarnate said:

"How not? If he has the speed of Mercury and she the speed of Hermes how could he be faster? "
Having the "speed of Hermes" in itself is a meaningless statement, because it has been show in that Wonder Woman cannot outrun the real Hermes... It's just a clever way to say "she has super-speed" 
 
@Evil Incarnate said:
" @Crom-Cruach said:
" @Evil Incarnate said:
" It never made sense to me. It like saying if I was was light as air and you were light as a breeze yet you're heavier than I am. Does that make sense od do I need a better example?"
I see what you mean by the statement, but the problem is it doesn't apply to the situation you are asking about... "
How not? If he has the speed of Mercury and she the speed of Hermes how could he be faster? The enchantment by the lords of magic argument makes no sense. While yes he may be their champion she's a champion to her gods as well.  "
Yes they do, they drew upon the all-powerful source of the rock of ages and gave him the ability to champion the power of good and magic. You can't compare that to Diana who is an amazon princess who receives relics forged by Hephaestus to allow her to represent her world in the greater earth. Captain Marvel's source of power if both different and much more powerful.
 
The were given essentially the same powers from the same people. Only Diana's power was given to her by the actual gods and not a third party. Just because the people who gave him his may be more powerful doesn't mean their spells can't be outdone. If he has the strength of Hercules and she's given strength literally to surpass that why would he be stronger? That's like saying if we both had the exact same gun but, yours was more powerful because it was given to you by a soldier than won every award a soldier could win while mines was off the rack.
 
@Crom-Cruach said:
@Evil Incarnate said:
 Also wasn't it determined that the Greek gods were more powerful than their Roman counterparts who were in fact lesser avatars of them? "
You're mixing the differentiation between roman and Greek gods of Marvel with how DC is set up. The lords of Magic are not the same as the Greek gods.  And yes, before we get off track. This is one part of DC that is really complicated and would need clean up. "
They gave him the powers of the Roman gods they didn't give him their powers. If they had given him their own powers and they themselves were greater than the Greek gods it would makes sense but, they gave him the powers of gods that some of which are lesser than her own.
#17 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8736 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate said:
"That would make sense if it wasn't given to her by the actual Hermes..."
Doesn't matter who gave it to her. It's just the boon of super-speed. It's not Herme's speed otherwise she would be as fast as him, she is not.
@Evil Incarnate said:
"The were given essentially the same powers from the same people. Only Diana's power was given to her by the actual gods and not a third party. Just because the people who gave him his may be more powerful doesn't mean their spells can't be outdone. If he has the strength of Hercules and she's given strength literally to surpass that why would he be stronger? "
Because the Rock of Ages is the source the nexus of all good magic in the DC universe and the remnant of the God wave and he receives much more power because he is the champion of good magic. He doesn't get it from the gods, he gets in from the Rock of Ages. Strength of Hercules is not the strength of Hercules, it's invoked through the name of Hercules it is not his strength. Therefore he can be stronger because the investment in power he gets is superior. He receives more power the Diana that is why he is more powerful, period.
 
@Evil Incarnate said:
They gave him the powers of the Roman gods they didn't give him their powers. If they had given him their own powers and they themselves were greater than the Greek gods it would makes sense but, they gave him the powers of gods that some of which are lesser than her own. "
The lords of Magic are not the Roman gods in DC, they are totally different entities. And they can draw upon the Rock of Ages who's keeper is Shazam who chose Billy. He gets a bigger investment in power, he is more powerful.
 
Honestly how is that hard to understand?
#18 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3742 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach said:
" @Evil Incarnate said:
"That would make sense if it wasn't given to her by the actual Hermes..."
Doesn't matter who gave it to her. It's just the boon of super-speed. It's not Herme's speed otherwise she would be as fast as him, she is not.
@Evil Incarnate said:
"The were given essentially the same powers from the same people. Only Diana's power was given to her by the actual gods and not a third party. Just because the people who gave him his may be more powerful doesn't mean their spells can't be outdone. If he has the strength of Hercules and she's given strength literally to surpass that why would he be stronger? "
Because the Rock of Ages is the source the nexus of all good magic in the DC universe and the remnant of the God wave and he receives much more power because he is the champion of good magic. He doesn't get it from the gods, he gets in from the Rock of Ages. Strength of Hercules is not the strength of Hercules, it's invoked through the name of Hercules it is not his strength. Therefore he can be stronger because the investment in power he gets is superior. He receives more power the Diana that is why he is more powerful, period.
 
@Evil Incarnate said:
They gave him the powers of the Roman gods they didn't give him their powers. If they had given him their own powers and they themselves were greater than the Greek gods it would makes sense but, they gave him the powers of gods that some of which are lesser than her own. "
The lords of Magic are not the Roman gods in DC, they are totally different entities. And they can draw upon the Rock of Ages who's keeper is Shazam who chose Billy. He gets a bigger investment in power, he is more powerful.  Honestly how is that hard to understand? "
I completely understand you but, you don't understand me.
#19 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8736 posts) - - Show Bio
@Evil Incarnate said:
"I completely understand you but, you don't understand me. "
Then explain because so far, you're arguments have all been accounted for.
#20 Posted by Batcrow (232 posts) - - Show Bio

    hmmmm....:)

#21 Posted by weaponx (1566 posts) - - Show Bio
@Primmaster64:  Show me more :). I want to see Superman confront Billy!
#22 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponx: I'm sorry but that's the only scans I got . The elsewhere story is Called Superman: Distant Fires
#23 Posted by weaponx (1566 posts) - - Show Bio
@Primmaster64:  Its all good dude, thanks for letting me know where it is from though :). 
#24 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponx: =)
#25 Edited by Batcrow (232 posts) - - Show Bio

well, here's my two cents on:
 
Diana: The gods duplicated their own powers into Diana. She has been able to race Mercury and outwit Athena - who is the very embodiment of wisdom and knowledge and absorbs knowledge constantly. She has the strength of Gaea, so basically her punches pack the power of the Earth itself. She is supposed to be strongER than Hercules. Remember the line: "As beautiful as Aphrodite, wise as Athena, stronger than Hercules and swifter than Mercury..." ? 
  
 
Captain Marvel (Shazam): 
As you said his powers source from the Rock Of Ages. But can't the same be said for the Rock of Ages that it's just a "fancy" word for a source of powers, similar to how you said the speed of Hermes is a fancy way to say super-speed? And howcome the strength of Hercules suddenly turns into just an invocation? 
If the wisdom of Athena and strength MORE than Hercules is just a joke...howcome the wisdom of Solomon (who is a king, not a god) and strength EQUAL to Hercules, are not? 
 
But when it comes to durability...OF COURSE Captain Marvel is superior. Diana's durability does not extend to piercing projectiles either (the bracelets are another topic). 
@Crom-Cruach said:

" @Evil Incarnate said:


Diana who is an amazon princess who receives relics forged by Hephaestus to allow her to represent her world in the greater earth.   
 
Diana is much more than that . You forgot that the gods duplicated their powers into her. They gave her their own features and/or qualities so she could represent them and their culture outside Paradise Island in "Man's World". Because if you just say Rock of Ages and compare that to relics forged by Hephaestus, that swings things way towards Captain Marvel. So the whole story should be clarified first. SOMEONE hasn't been brushing up on their knowledge about Wonder Woman. But please, dont give people that are reading the wrong or incomplete idea, iz all. 
  
Diana does not go around reminding people about her powers. Captain Marvel does. By the strength of Hercules, I lift this rock. Jeez! We get it. Which is what has implanted the idea that he is more powerful overall. For the 1 millionth time (still counting) Diana has strength greater than the EXACT SAME DC GOD HERCULES, yet she doesn't say so. 
Thus, people completely forget and underestimate her powers. People need to keep this in mind before saying that Superman and Captain Marvel are equals and Diana isn't.
#26 Posted by BloodyFlix (30 posts) - - Show Bio

To each his own. In this case, your opinion.  
 
I still believe WW to be "stronger," but I won't spend any time explaining myself, because quite frankly everyone seems to be pretty adament in their opinion and whatever I have to say won't change anything.  
 
#27 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Billy is more powerful

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