when asked about writers NOT building on past wonder woman ideas Gail Simone responded

Yeah, absolutely true. I think part of it is that editorial hasn’t really found a version they believe in 100%.

Like, I was not allowed to use Greg Rucka’s brilliant version of the gods. Similarly, I’m sure writers were asked not to refer to my additions to the myth. Or maybe they just didn’t like them or didn’t read it, I don’t know.

But my entire plan was, EVERYTHING HAPPENED. My idea was that ever version of Wonder Woman was in the myth somewhere. So I tried not to negate previous stories, even if I thought those stories were awful.

In retrospect, I don’t know if that was a worthwhile idea. It took tremendous effort and it might have been baffling to newer readers. But I was proud that I didn’t tear things down to try to tell my stories.

There are two things I really wish new writers kept, maybe it’s vanity or maybe it’s because I think they are solid ideas.

One is, I think the origin story I had for Diana’s costume was very tight, and less convoluted than the previous one (which I still tried to keep in continuity). And I think having the island guarded by megalodons is a fun idea that makes a lot of sense. I can certainly see not keeping the gorillas, that could get tiresome over time, maybe.

The cool thing is, David Finch says he’s promised to bring the megs back, so THANK YOU, DAVID!

http://gailsimone.tumblr.com/post/125298509105/i-think-you-really-got-the-cookiness-that-marston

apparently DC has trouble finding how to approach her which is why i think there is so much of a problem trying to figure out who she is

Discuss.

@agent41: idk i think they definitely have a hard time trying to be consistent with her character and tone. maybe this film will help enlighten them though because i feel that having multiple mediums to work with is what helped develop bats and supes

@agent41: i dont think rucka really focused on her character but moreso how other people looked at her. Simone on the other hand had a very character driven storyline. Azarello sorta made her a lot rougher and violent, just the use of the sword as her go to weapon flies in the face of most of the other characterizations you've mentioned. Not to mention all those characterizations conflict with the very original idea of marston's wonder woman and after him her character with through a number of changes so i think its really hard to say she's had a consistent characterization, granted no hero from the 40's had but i think she has had the most changes to her character and mythos compared to her other golden age counterparts who are still around today

I like Gail's writing, but something about what she says rubs me the wrong way. Maybe not in this quote, but in previous statements she more or less shows she has little respect for the time period concepts she was created in (and the characters that were created specifically for Wonder Woman). I'm not saying that every Wonder Woman writer has to hold the Marston originals on the pedestal, but with nearly every other A-list character, writers have done exactly that and stuck with it for the most part.

Nothing against Simone's writing, but something about her just gets on my nerves, like she thinks that her origin ideas and her characters should be the status quo for the definitive Wonder Woman, and I guess it turns moderate Golden Age and so-on fans like me off as I think that attitude only exacerbates the problem Diana consistently has. Every writer thinks that THEIR rendition of Wonder Woman is right, and all past ones are just scrap. Past renditions are worthy of brief mention, but apparently not worthy enough to build upon. In this instance that Simone is talking about, that's more or less on DC, but there's still a lot she and other writers since Azzarello or Rucka could've used, but decided not to for some reason.

In other words: I think Wonder Woman has some of the most egotistical writers to date, Simone included. In addition to really wishy-washy editors, it all has hurt Diana in constructing her world.

Diana's character is not the problem, as so far (barring wtf the Finches are doing) her portrayal has been somewhat consistent if not evolving. The huge problem is building upon her world and support system, which means, yes, you're going to have to use characters and concepts from the past.

@alsummers: i mean writers are going to think there way is right tho.....or they would have written it that way

i think rucka did the best job in building a solid foundation for ww amongst modern writers. I like simone, but she did better building up Themyscira. Rucka built a logical foundation for her in OUR world. I prefer her being Ambassador far more than spy. I thought her as a spy sucked.

I'm suprised Simone didn't throw salt on Finch's work. I'm sure she gets a good kick out of reading this current run.

@alsummers: Except Simome states that there were things she wanted to use but was not allowed to do. So how is she being egotistical?

@agent_z: I did specifically state that in this instance DC is mostly to blame. But in other interviews I've read, Simone has come off as a bit arrogant. It could be just me though.

I mean I love her work. She's a fantastic writer and certainly has a presence within the comic book community, but it's just the way she comes off rubs me the wrong way. Similar to how I feel about Grant Morrison.

I think the problem with Wonder Woman is that they want her to be every woman. She has to be the fierce warrior who doesn't balk at killing as well as the spirit of true unconditional love as well as the product of a dystopian society of women that thinks its a utopia, as well as an avatar for a hodge podge of ancient greek myth, as well as a classic golden age-y superhero. No one version of Diana sticks because it comes at the cost of all the other versions. To be crass: she can't be every man's fantasy if she's a single fantasy or even just two different fantasies. What Gail Simone is sharing is not that she, or Finch or any other writer was so egotistical that they decided not to use the past, but that they were specifically mandated by DC to not be consistent with Wonder Woman, to not build up the past. Not use those same supporting characters, the whole nine. Everything flows from that.

So have they found her? Well... maybe they don't want to find her? Maybe she works better when she can be Cersei Lannister in Injustice and Xena in New 52 and Rosie the Riveter in New Frontier. We can have pin ups of Wonder Woman and not ask 'would Diana do that?' because Diana is whoever we need her to be by definition. If we give Wonder Woman a specific voice, a specific stance beyond what every Superhero has, then we start to see how Wonder Woman by herself doesn't keep the JLA from being a sausage fest, you need other women in there, with different voices, to make things seem normal and not weird. Zatanna, Vixen, Hawkgirl all need to be A-listers all of a sudden. Because otherwise it looks like only women like Wonder Woman are allowed to be important.

Or you could just keep doing things the way they are, with Wonder Woman being a mutable character. It certainly is the easiest route, and it seems to be working still, right?

@hypester: I like you already

wow

Wonder Woman is the least developed out of the trinity while Batman is the most. Everyone has a relatively consistent idea of Batman's mentality and personality. Superman is going through some changes but that's mainly tapping into earlier existing ideas. With Wonder Woman, she hasn't evolved or been modernized much. People don't have a consistent idea of her personality or world. Batman and Superman change a little once and a while but it always goes back to the core idea. People aren't settled on what the core of Wonder Woman is.

Batman is generally detective stories fighting criminals. Superman is generally sci-fi fighting monsters. So Wonder Wonder should be fantasy/adventure fighting social conflicts but that's the easy part. The bigger debate surrounds the meaning and nature of her mythos and her character.

The main reason why this hasn't happened for Wonder Woman is that she hasn't had a vehicle to leave a widespread impression. The best she's gotten was the 70s TV show which is more of a cult favorite on the level of Adam West's Batman. It's not publicly defining like Christopher Reeve's Superman or the Batman movies. Writers come from all sorts of backgrounds so for there to be any kind of consensus, there needs to be a rock they they could all reference and work off from. Her development has been stunted but at least it's getting more activity recently.

This was very enjoyable to read. Nicely done.

@hypester: Some of what you say makes sense but I'd question how much of it is working. The Finches run is the most critically panned run on the book yet.

This isn't even a problem of Diana being different in alternate continuities. It's how writers can't even keep her and her world consistent within the same continuity. I'm not a fan of Injustice Diana but that version has the excuse of not being the mainstream Diana. But the mainstream version has gone through a recycle of having everything about her taken apart and put back together only to have the next writer and editor team rip her apart to the detriment of the book. And yes, I say it has negatively affected her in the long run as both fans and non-fans alike have complained about it.

What puts you off Grant Morrison? He seems to be following Marston's Golden Age WW nearly religiously from interviews for his upcoming WW graphic novel.

@maccyd:

Actually, I love his ideas about Wonder Woman so far, we'll see how his graphic novel goes. His personality comes off as abrasive, especially when he jumped the gun on the Wonder Woman movie topic recently. That doesn't mean I can't agree with him or think he's done good work.

But I guess he has some humility if he's really wanting to go right back to Wonder Woman's roots instead of trying to "reinvent" her like so many authors have.
Perhaps, since this circles back to the topic on hand, his Earth One can restart a trend when it comes to Wonder Woman writing.

All DC has to do is focus on the words to the Wonder Woman theme song and everything would be okay.

Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman.

All the world's waiting for you,

and the power you possess.

In your satin tights,

Fighting for your rights

And the old Red, White and Blue.

Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman.

Now the world is ready for you,

and the wonders you can do.

Make a hawk a dove,

Stop a war with love,

Make a liar tell the truth.

Wonder Woman,

Get us out from under, Wonder Woman.

All our hopes are pinned on you.

And the magic that you do.

Stop a bullet cold,

Make the Axis fold,

Change their minds,

and change the world.

Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman.

You're a wonder, Wonder Woman.

Dude... your post was so on point.

I think that Superman character is more defined because you have Bruce's persona, Hal's shoot first/ask question later, Arthur's regalness, and Barry's optimism to box him in.

Like you said, Wonder Woman lacks other STRONG female characters so she has to become female versions of Batman, Flash, Hal Jordan and Aquaman to be a good character.

Bravo!

@agent41: i mean wonder woman is a lot of things and she should be alot of things and capable of alot but she cant be everything and she cant represent every woman. i mean if she exists to represent every woman then you either have to believe that every woman has to be or is capable of being only warriors AND diplomats AND leaders AND lovers AND compassionate....etc Or wonder woman is a walking contradiction because you cant represent every woman with one character, but DC has her be that because they wont give other female characters more attention and a-list spots(which isnt a surprise sense they barely give ww that respect).

Its not even about any one writer but the people who told the writers what to do and didnt allow them to create a collective focused concept but told them that they could NOT build on past ideas or concepts. So, thats why you get so many different wonder women (and a tangled mythos/world surrounding her)because the wonder woman in the Justice League cartoons isnt really the same woman in her solo comics and isnt the same woman in injustice and isnt the same person in the wonder woman animated film or the same woman in JL war or the same woman in brave and bold or the same woman in that failed pilot(god bless it did fail). No one is saying she doesnt have qualities that we mostly agree to be who we see her as and ideas she should hold near to her(compassionate warrior leader who values love and truth above all else and seeks to help even those that hurt her or try to kill her) but the people in charge often take extreme liberties with her character so much so that she becomes whatever female character they need her to be to fill a role

" Writers that can't really show the different transitions she goes through in her life, the different aspects of her character, have only themselves to blame. Their lack of vision i the problem. The fact they want to simplify her character is the proof. Real life is not black and white and neither are people and their emotions. So why should WW when she is supposed to represent an statement about society and life?. She shouldn't be just one specific thing. Because her character has multiple themes that represent a different side of her. And all of the sides put together define who she is."

Simplify the character because everything that has every cross the character path they have tried to attach to her.

And by trying to be everything, she becomes nothing or unrealistic parody.

Its also saying look I am the THE WOMAN of earth and all those other women here are meaningless.

Look at me..look at me.

The ultimate "stuck up" chick at a beauty pagent with other women looking on.

The goddesses have Artemis, Hera, Aphrodite, Athena, Eos, Hestia, Gaea, Leto, Nike, etc

She doesn't have to be all those different personalities and aspects of the goddesses. Save some for Vixen, Huntress, Black Canary, Mary Marvel, Power girl, Hawk Girl.

The character never really grasped her original power set and make it work.

Constantly fulfilling her "precieved" inadequencies and bolting on new powers to compare or become other super heroes.

She started off with 4 gifts from the gods and goddesses that gave her powers.

To be a great warrior, she doesn't have to do Flash tricks to measure up, be a great warrior and try to duplicate stories of catching planes out of the sky bare handed because a certain Kryptonian and his cousin does all of the time.

Let Spiderman be Spiderman, Let Captain America be Captain America. Let Wolverine be Wolverine.

When you see Spiderman try to be Wolverine that's modern day Wonder Woman and "wtf" starts to fly. And why non WW fans roll their eyes.

@julez4001: thats not exactly what we are getting at....her powerset isnt the problem esp since she's always been considered around kryptonian levels of power since inception the problem we are talking about is personality and story and mythos

In a sense it is.

Xena would be a different TV show if she flew around or had swords breaking off her arms and legs.

Xena isn't a warrior any more she's Superman, not herself.

Xena fighting ability would look and act different.

And she did to pull a sword and shield out ..it would be bullcrap, she doesn't need that stuff.

WW has had upgrades and powers created for garbage reasons to plug a hole in a story.

Her best stories always the better when there are constraints in place to create conflict.

She had a slew of weaknesses and constraints that created possible drama and she should stay with her roots.

Also you didn't mention any of the other things I stated about her personality.

In trying to be every woman, she becomes "meh and uninteresting.

I also do not like when Batman (and family) dabbles in scifi and NEW GOD territory.

Its really not Batman.

Why?

Darkseid should just boom tube into Gotham and blowup Wayne mansion, Batcave , Gotham Police and boom tube out ..all in 30 seconds. Its a plausible storyline within the simplistic narrative and power levels of Jack Kirby's invention that doesn't fit into Batman's world.

Wonder Woman was not invulnerable until her big upgrade and expanded god/goddess add-on.

Originally, she can take a brunt force attack and survive.

Piercing weapons, fire, poison gas, under water while enhanced was in the invulnerable range and she was not here. Now she is...boring and not really Wonder Woman.

That's a little more than a little upgrade.

Actually...

Green Lantern power level have went down. PreCrisis Hal Jordan could take out the entire modern GL Corp.

Shazam/CM they included power sharing to weaken him.

They did all this to give them more conflict actually.

"And Wonder Woman multifaceted. She is a noble warrior, a defender of truth, an ambassador and philosopher."

Yes but of late, she also Mrs. Superman, goddess of war, world leader wannabe, generic superhero, with new powers that contradicts her classic abilities and iconography.

The lasso just need to be Truth diviner and not a mind control device.

It's not just DC but the fans also

@agent41:

And DC fans in general don't like what New 52 did with many of the characters.

here's to hoping that DCYou can fix that even though Didiot said that there would be no more reboots

@agent41: Well their new address is in Burbank if you want to hire a hitman

@agent41: yeah but you keep saying her "best stories" and ofc her best stories represented her the best but overall DC lacks consistency from the top down....this isnt even about personal opinion anymore its straight from a writer who said that executive tell them that they cant keep consistency between the character because they are still looking for the right version, whatever their right version is.....

@julez4001: Diana is not Xena. She predates the character by decades and does not need to be anything like the character to work.

Furthermore, why is returning her to her original power level accpetable to you, but the Lasso should not be allowed to be a mind control device.

Finally, how does writing Diana to be a multi-faced character with different traits in any way negatively impact other female characters? How does acknowledging her as a soldier and a diplomat affect Vixen, Black Canary, Batgirl etc. It's not like she'll be interacting with those characters much outside of crossovers or Justice League books. I've read a lot of WW and not once did I think she was stealing anything from other female characters. Hell, the case could be made that it's the other way around.

Co-signed

@agent41: im not talking just about her characters. what about her enemies and world around her. there was a reason ares was more two dimensional in simone's run because she wasnt allowed to use ruckas version of the gods and there is a reason her villains either get continually remade or totally forgotten about