@agent41: She was near equal in the beginning. She's not now. And even then she wasn't that strong. I'm not even gonna read your entire rant about blaming bad writing.

I'll make an analogy for you. If I get punched in the face, everything's all right in my body but my jaw feels like it's on fire, that counts as hurting me right? Does this mean that me getting jumped and beat up to the point where I can barely stand, am koed and have several broken body parts, count as hurting me? Sure, but my parents and friends will probably think that the people who attempted to jump me were aiming to kill me. Which is what it looked Diana tried doing twice IIRC.

I'm pretty sure a peak human, maybe near Spiderman's class could hurt her with a punch, but anyone in Diana's weight class will down right kill her. Even if that punch doesn't ko or kill her point is, it still hurt her. And my bad, if the punch koes or kills Cheetah and that character has the feats to show he's in at least Diana or Kara's strength class, then yes, it shows that they're physically stronger.

You keep telling me that I have double standards, that it was bad writing to blame and that she can take Wonder Woman level hits even though they down right nearly killed her. I'm pretty sure it takes less then a Wonder Woman level punch to hurt her.

uau you're totally underestimating how much stronger than humans Wonder Woman and Superman are, the difference is unfathomable. Superman benched 5.972.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 kilos for 5 consecutive days. The strongest olympic weightlifter managed 472 kg for like 2 or 3 seconds. Suppose Wonder Woman can only bench half as much as Superman, she's still literally gazillions of times stronger than the strongest of humans so yeah Cheetah shouldn't feel a damn thing.

Yeah she should feel a faint tingle, I image it to hurt as much as being hit by a marshmallow, or less

Looks like Cheetah and Arrow are both appearing in that Batman Unlimited feature. Fingers crossed that Ollie has a chance to defeat her once again. :p

@agent41: I'd say she's probably 2x spiderwoman. ... Maybe a 30-tonner ... But there's nothing to show even that level of actual strength. But I'd be unsurprised if she could pick up and throw a large SUV or bus ... I would be surprised to see her able to lift an airplane though ... But again, that's MY interpretation of the character. It's much like the Cheetah in nature. Fast and agile, but smaller and weaker than other cats. They rely on ambush hunting using their speed to take down larger prey. She doesn't require massive strength, she had claws and speed.

@agent41: Naah. She'll probably job and Ollie'll one shot her with a boxing glove arrow. :)

@saint_sophie: I don't understand. Why did this thread turn into such a flamewar?. Things like this shouldn't happen. it ruins the purpose of having a forum to debate.

It's obvious that Cheetah isn't on WW's level. But it's also obvious that Cheetah wouldn't be hurt by a punch from a peak human. There are characters that are way above peak human level but still not on the top tier level. Cheetah is one of them. Some real logic is needed here. And all characters are victims of bad writing sometimes. Cheetah is no exception so her fans can't complain about that. And in fact many charcters have had way more bad writing moments than her. Her trackrecord may not be breathtaking. But it is not as bad as some people are making it out to be either. I agree with the user entropy_aegis. Going by feats Cheetah is a mid tier. So she can take a couple of hits from WW's level of strength and wouldn't be hurt by peak human strength but she is not as strong as WW either. This ranking is accurate.

Cause some people weren't shocked that this happened given how it's happened multiple times in the past. Then Cheetah fans started getting up in their faces saying to blame it on bad writing even when she can be a jobber sometimes.

Then when it was brought up that Cheetah could give Diana a good fight, even though Diana should've gone to prison for animal abuse. So, people started arguing that she's faster than Diana and is strong enough to hurt her, even though she only blitzed her when she was weak in the knees (and Diana still beat her) and it was brought up that Cheetah is superhuman in strength, but no where near Diana's strength class, and that her claws are the only reason that make her of any use as a threat to Diana.

Then I wagered that cause Diana level hits would down right kill her, and that a stronger version was promptly one shotted by someone in Diana's weight class, combined with the fact that Cheetah's been koed by street levelers before, that a peak human could at least hurt her, maybe not ko or kill her, but hurt her. And for record, a Diana level punch would destroy a peak human like Cap so she wins both ways.

Cheetah's just not as impressive as people make her out to be. And given how she wasn't expecting it, not so sure how this got so out of hand.

@saint_sophie: I can understand that you don't like Cheetah but you going a bit too far. If we going to have Cheetah getting oneshotted by street levelers then there is no point in making her a threat to Wonder Woman. That makes Diana looks bad and that explains why she get baited so much in the Battles Forum. I think Cheetah should be as powerful as a enemy of Wonder Woman should be. You wouldn't want Diana getting beat by street levelers although she has been in every panel so why should her villains be?

@saint_sophie: I see. So basically both sides did their part to crete this flamewar.

I have seen Cheetah blitz WW even during fights were WW was at full power. So Cheetah's speed is up there. Many powerful characters have been defeated by street levelers many times. And that is still bad writing. A peak human punch can't hurt Cheetah based on her showings against +100 tonners. Balance is needed here. Both sides of this debate need balnce. Cheetah fans must understand that Cheetah is not on WW's level. But the other side of the argument must understand somthing too. Not being WW level in durability doesn't mean that peak human level of strength will hurt her. Cheetah can take a couple of blows from WW that we know. Based on her trackrecord taking hits from +100 tonners. It's accurate to say that Cheetah won't feel a punch from a peak human. But she won't match a WW level character either.

She might not match them in strength but that doesn't mean she can't seriously wound characters like Wonder Woman, if the writer so desires. Cheetah is not that far below Wonder Woman in the food chain

Let's break this down shall we?

I can understand that you don't like Cheetah but you going a bit too far. If we going to have Cheetah getting oneshotted by street levelers then there is no point in making her a threat to Wonder Woman.

I didn't say that a street leveler could one shot her. That's just putting words in my mouth. I said they could hurt her, even if it doesn't ko or kill her they still made her feel pain. It has happened in the past, even if some jobbing was involved, she's still not as durable as she's made out to be.

That makes Diana looks bad and that explains why she get baited so much in the Battles Forum.

With that said in mind, Ares shouldn't be a Wonder Woman villain then should he? Given how Diana's needed amps to beat him in the past and he's shown to be more powerful than her. So go figure.

And since when was Diana baited in the battle forums because of her set of villains? Any proof of this? Quite frankly, some people overhype Cheetah. I mean, some of you guys (maybe not you) think that she has the durability to take a shot from someone like Gladiator just because she takes hits from Diana, even though Diana has once again left her in a pool of her blood in the past.

I think Cheetah should be as powerful as a enemy of Wonder Woman should be.

And what would you define "as powerful as a Wonder Woman villain should be"? Given how Circe with prep during the War Of the Gods caused freaky stuff to happen around the earth and needed DC earth's mystics to focus a spell through Wonder Woman and Geoforce IIRC.in order to defeat her, Ares has shown to be superior to WW, First Born's been a pretty formidable foe who was on a mission to kill the Olympian Pantheon and then you have someone like Cheetah who seemingly wants to kill herself at the hands of Wonder Woman.

You wouldn't want Diana getting beat by street levelers although she has been in every panel so why should her villains be?

Well, if you think that I'm taking my Cheetah hate too far, then the same could be said about you. If you're referring to Diana, she hasn't been beat by street levelers in "every panel".

She really shouldn't be a Wonder Woman villain unless she has a death wish. Diana's almost killed her in the past. Cheetah's never been a match for Wonder Woman, save for maybe early Post Crisis. In fact, it's already been proven that Diana was in bad shape in one of her fights while Cheetah was "revitalized" and Diana still put the smack down on her. The only impressive thing I recall from her was the time when she blitzed Diana, albeit, Diana was weak in the knees. And the only thing that makes her relevant to Diana is the fact that Diana skin's and sharp objects don't mix.

I'm not even going to waste my time. I was doing agent41 a favor but I don't even have the time for you.

Well, considering how you took some time out of your day to respond to me, then I guess you do have some time for me. And that's fine by me. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

@saint_sophie: Ok it seems that i have become part of this mess already with users responding to me from both sides of the argumen. Seriously why are people debating over bad writing?. This is not a difficult concept. Bad writing happens. Cheetah is not exception. That is what her fans must understand. And the other side of this argument must understand that It's extreme case of PIS for a character like Cheetah to be hurt by peak human level of strength. I mean i have seen WW being hurt and defeated by peak human strength. Poison Ivy,Cherise,Batman(3 times),Deathstroke,Robin,even canon fodders like a normal karate man. I even remember one time when a random person on a train just punched her and KO her. I'm sure we agree all this is PIS. Peak humans would break their bones hitting WW. The same would happen to them if they hit Cheetah. Cheetah is not as durable as WW. But literally 90% of her showings include taking hits from WW. So her consistent showings prove that Cheetah can withstand way more damage than what a peak human can dish out. Which means that Cheetah will not feel a punch from a peak human at all.

Folks need to take a deep breath. I've been rereading quite a bit of this thread and there are general agreements going on too.

For instance ... It doesn't look like anyone things Cheetah is physically "peak human" also no one seems to think that Cheetah is incapable of harming WW. Most agree that Cheetah being injured by a peak human street leveler is PIS.

We're arguing details like how strong Cheetah is based in how hard she can hit Diana ... An exercise in futility since her strength isn't what makes her hit hard. That's her speed and her mass. We're arguing if she is actually faster than Diana, which seems debatable as in some stories she's been enhanced enough to probably qualify as faster, but that's by no means solid proof. What this really boils down to is that there is enough wriggle room for a writer to easily increase her or decrease her to a significant degree. Love or hate the character, she's easy to show on either end of the spectrum.

@agent41: @foamborn: @csg_cl: Just wanted let you guys know that I love and have much respect for y'all. I am leaving, might not be permanent, but it is for a while for the very least. I can't deal with all the buffoonery on here these days. I love Comicvine and have had a great experience. Y'all might have a lot of issues on this board but always live to fight another day. Stay strong and be positive for Wonder Woman. Never lower yourselves to the standards of the slums of this forum or the ignorant hooligans in the Battles section.

@agent41: I will. I just have to focus on some positive things. Thanks for your support.

@zhurong: Don't go now, I have a pretty good feeling that Geoff will finally do Wonder Woman justice, the tides might be turning. Take a day off and come back wednesday ;)

@foamborn: I don't know where Cheetah ranks in strength. As i said i agree with the people that rank her as a mid tier in strength and durability. That seems accurate.

@linkjt: All I know is that villains are supposed to be challenging so the gap between her and Wonder Woman can't possibly be insurmountable.

don't let the haters keep you down ... we may not have always agreed on things, but I'll miss you on here!

@agent41: I love Cheetah as a villain, she's powerful, ferocious and is the polar opposite of wonder woman. However, just to clarify, She-Hulk is no longer 85 tons, but 100+. Her strength has grown far past CM's. I wanted to just clarify after reading through all this.

In this sort of situation shouldn't the editors have a handy list of who is and who isn't too strong to be taken down this easily?

lolol some scrub on here once tried to tell me cheetah was high tier +

@agent41: i dont really have a favorite so i cant pick one, how about firestorm?

That is what I meant, the editor should step in and tell the writer that it doesn't work and that he should re-write it.

Strange

It is very strange considering how she single handedly had her way with the JL.

True

Someone post that Perez lasso stalemate picture. Now!!!!

@agent41: stupidity shud b mocked, not justified

green arrow can beat anyone😎😎