@gokuwarrior: I don't think Azzarello's run is a flop, and this thread is evidence enough that other people don't think it's trash. I love the old runs (Rucka's in particular), but I can appreciate what Azzarello is doing with the character.

@divingfalcon713: it's a flop,she doesn't sale anymore,let's have a writter changing batman,his parents never died,or superman,krypton was never destroyed,let a writter change their core and see if fans are happy,someone of you talk about batman and superman chaging,but they never got their origin and cast changed the way azzarello did to wonder woman,her heroic side,the amazons,her villans,all of that is missing and she hasn't comerciak success either,nothing is right for wonder woman these days.

Her cast still exists. The Amazons exist, despite their petrified states. The Amazons regularly die or disappear in the old stories. I highly doubt Azzarello will leave them out of her book forever. Her supporting cast also still exists. There was no reason for Azzarello to start off his run repeating how WW met Etta Candy or Steve Trevor since those are stories we've already seen. I, personally, am enjoying seeing someone do something different with Diana.

I understand that you don't like the fact that she hasn't lifted/pushed/pulled/whatevered something of a specific weight that's high enough for you to be happy with her feats, but she is still heroic to me. She doesn't need to be fighting a spandex-wearing, ranting super villain to be heroic to me. Her dichotomy in being a warrior who strives for peace comes through. Her compassion and empathy for others still comes through.

The core backgrounds of Superman and Batman haven't been changed because everyone knows them, whereas WW was not nearly as well known. I get that you don't care for Azzarello's run, and you're entitled to that, but I happen to like it.

@divingfalcon713: people know many things about wonder woman's core,her amazonian roots,paradise island,the lasso,the bracelets,steve trevor,wonder woman being made off clay and the gods bringing her to life,cheetah her nemessis,this stuff is known by millions of people around the world,and many of that changed and not in a good way,and going around the drama of a baby for 2 years is not something different either,it's boring.

@divingfalcon713: “A fan asked if Wonder Woman's relationship with Superman, described by the audience member as "gravitating towards the one man stronger than her," goes against WW's ideals. "Who says he's stronger than her?" Azzarello answered.

gokuwarrior and me just hope she still needs more feats and it looks like DC are underestimating her.They should give her in the near future more strenght feats rather than combat skill feats.

@darknightspideyfanboy: those aren't big changes in the origin of the characters,cast and villans like azzarello did to wonder woman,DC doesn't promote wonder woman,they don't get things right,and azzarello writtes her as completely different character,and she lacks presence and leading role in her own book.

THAT'S WHY IT?S A COMERCIA FLOP.

@gokuwarrior: I'm not saying people don't know things about her at all. The people who know about her just aren't as large a group as people who know about say, Batman for instance. And four of the things on your list of things people know her for are still acknowledged in the book.

Again, I get that you don't like the book, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on it.

@gokuwarrior: commercial flop? wow it was must selling 10,000 then anyway actually for batman changing the killer from joe chill to some guy is a big deal why because you wont get this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNiMsRVDFGQ it was a great character development for batman on the no kill policy golden age batman would have smoke him.as for Diana omg her dad zeus how did it change her it didn't why because Zeus wasn't there he didn't raise her but her mother did

@darknightspideyfanboy: batman and superman have killed several times after golden age,so what?,they didn't change their origin,their cast and villans,and they aren't as inconsistent with showings and big victims of bad writing as often as wonder woman.

and yes azzarello's run is a flop,comics are a flop in general nowdays because companies live and die with 3 titles and don't know how to use the full potential of other characters and promote them properly,specially females,the ultimate proof,sailor moon,the sailor moon manga and anime destroy all of batman comics and cartoons combined from the last 35 years in terms of sales,ratings and popularity,nowdays comics only have the live action movies,but it's a matter of time before mangas destroy them in that area too,because manga writters know how to handle and promote their characters and they are working alone in the creation proccess,not like comic companies that have a writter or 2 for every title and still get miserable sales for 70% of their titles and 70% of their cartoons nowdays get cancelled,they don't do good promo and support for most of their characters and don't do a good job at creating stories and being consistent with the characters feats,that's why nobody cares anymore,and that's why they flop so hard.

@divingfalcon713: she lacks presence in her own book,it lacks action too,it lacks diana's struggles with other topics in life,her villans and how they represent wonder woman's antithesis,it lacks her heroic side,there are too many issues with just talking,it's just awful.

@gokuwarrior: Someone says New 52 wonder woman story is very good better than before,though..

@gokuwarrior:o why in god name are you comparing manga sales to comic sales please don't bring up manga up dont get me wrong i like anime/manga code geass, attack on titan, deathnote inuyasha,naruto(i have love/hate thing going on),one piece,fairy tale,Fullmetal i can go on and list more but i don't want to derail the thread but were talking about comic in term of comic sale wonder woman is doing good

@darknightspideyfanboy: no,wonder woman is not doing good in sales, and i comare mangas to comics,because comic companies should take some notes from mangas and learn how to promote their characters properly and be consistent with their showings instead of water them down in some stories for the sake of an stupid plot,they should start to be more profesional,they can learn a lot from manga writters.

@powerwoman: well i don't agree with those people,perez,ruka and simone are the best wonder woman's runs from the last 30 years,which is your favorite run?.

@gokuwarrior: I'm agree with you....

But I think almost all of comic's charater has PIS.....you real cant changed it.....

@gokuwarrior: no derr manga have the same writer and only have to worry about.. you know what make a thread about it call it manga or comic i have that discussion there and yes it doing good not great not amazing but good

@darknightspideyfanboy: I'm think his stroy is fine,but I dont like his art

@darknightspideyfanboy: false,for comic writters is easier to handle their work,they only have to worry about the character they have to writte,but they can't be consistent,a character is supposed to have super durability,speed and all of a sudden is KO by a human,tagged by someone without super speed,are you telling me they can't avoid inconsistencies?,please,they just need to know the power set of the characters and put them against people in the same league,they can't come up with good match up 70% of the times,they just water down characters for the sake of a certain plot and ruin the whole issue,that's one of the reasons why they flop,people are tired of seeing inconsistencies and contradictions in power level between one issue and the other,from one title to the other.

second,comic companies don't know how to handle strong females,they always ruin them,and no,wonder woman is not doing good,she is supposed to be an A-list character,part of the trinity,one of the most famous characters in the world and you think her current sales represent that?,no,she is having miserable sales,because of the reasons i already mentioned.

@powerwoman: lol yeah if there one problem cliff chiang work is that he doesn't draw great feat it not his thing

@darknightspideyfanboy: again for comic writters is easier to handle their work,they only have to worry about the character they have to writte,but they can't be consistent,a character is supposed to have super durability,speed and all of a sudden is KO by a human,tagged by someone without super speed,are you telling me they can't avoid inconsistencies?,please,they just need to know the power set of the characters and put them against people in the same league,they can't come up with good match up 70% of the times,they just water down characters for the sake of a certain plot and ruin the whole issue,that's one of the reasons why they flop,people are tired of seeing inconsistencies and contradictions in power level between one issue and the other,from one title to the other.

second,comic companies don't know how to handle strong females,they always ruin them,and no,wonder woman is not doing good,she is supposed to be an A-list character,part of the trinity,one of the most famous characters in the world and you think her current sales represent that?,no,she is having miserable sales,because of the reasons i already mentioned.

@gokuwarrior: Like batman beat wonder woman,or...

That always happen..bad writer

@powerwoman: BAHAHAHA thanos going to jail

@powerwoman: comic writters can't be consistent because they are lazy,a character is supposed to have super durability,speed and all of a sudden is KO by a human,tagged by someone without super speed,are you telling me they can't avoid inconsistencies?,please,they just need to know the power set of the characters and put them against people in the same league,they can't come up with good match up 70% of the times,they just water down characters for the sake of a certain plot and ruin the whole issue,if we want better stories and see more of the comic characers in and outside comics,writters need to be consistent,it's possible,it's really not that hard.

@gokuwarrior: I know...they are just think can't be consistent is could be cool or something?or think about,if batman fanboys see batman beat wonder woman,they are would be happy,and buy this comic....you know what i mean

@darknightspideyfanboy: Yes,that real silly,I dont know what happen in marvel..but...

@powerwoman: actually being consistent would make them be more successful.

@gokuwarrior: I think....if they are real did it,superman would be beat any enemy in a few seconds....wonder woman would be do it too....

@powerwoman: they would beat weak enemies in seconds,the writters have more than enough characters powerful enough to fight superman and wonder woman and have a long fight,there is no need to water them dfown and put them against street level charcters or mid-powerhouse when they have countless of powerhouses that they can use.

@gokuwarrior: I'm not sure...but that looks like DBZ.....

@powerwoman: no it doesn't look like dbz,it's the only way that makes sense,wonder woman and superman have villans powerful enough to fight them,and there are many other villans powerful enough to fight them,so there is no need to create crappy issues where a human tag and hurt characters like superman and wonder woman,they have a lot of powerhouses that they can use.

@gokuwarrior: eh...........yeah,at least dont "batman beat wonder woman"happen again...and give her real powerful feats

if even Azzerello himself says wonder woman at least as strong as superman

@gokuwarrior: Again, we're obviously not going to agree on this. I understand you have your reasons for not liking the book. I clearly don't agree with you. Continuing to tell me why you don't like it isn't going to change my mind.

@divingfalcon713: Yeah..i think he just too impatient,because waiting over years wonder woman no any Impressive feats

that's the point,we know that street level characters and low level monsters and demonds can't do anything against superman,wonder woman,etc,so they need to use characters that actually have enough power to fight them,there are more than enough characters in DC that have enough power to fight superman and wonder woman,so they need to remember that and make fights properly.

@gokuwarrior: I agree it..I dont think people love to see batman one shotted superman or beat wonder woman thing.....just too bad

but i think we can compromise,Azzerello himself says wonder woman at least as strong as superman and better figher than batman,so,skills and strength both is equally important

@powerwoman: well the quality of the story is very important,but since we are tyalking about feats,to be honest i don't care if she is as powerful as superman or not,even if she was weaker she is still supposed to be very powerful,so i just want the characters to be consistent with their feats,fighting people in their league so we can have great stories and nt the stupid stories where they water down some characters.

@gokuwarrior: PIS always happen in the comic books...that real cant changed it...

though,we all know that was bad, Even in the pre-52,wonder woman has great feats,she still has a lot of low showing,to be honest, what consistency is almost impossible to achieve

Azzerello himself says wonder woman at least as strong as superman,so,yes,even you dont care it that still already achieve

@powerwoman: thought i let you know this is from superman and wonder woman comic that coming out you might c that feat you so crave for as for i'm going to enjoy two badass women duke it out

@darknightspideyfanboy: Yes,I know this,nice battle

I'm complete understanding,Azzerello not show us wonder woman feats,because writer wants to show off her warrior aspects rather than her female superman aspects. but if Azzerello himself says wonder woman at least as strong as superman,that no any reason dont belive it,because this is Writer promises,not perfunctory,not a troll answerd

@powerwoman: yeah i know i thought i just let you know as comic fan to another that is all no trolling

@darknightspideyfanboy: lol

A lot of people I've talked to say his run improved WW.

True or false, thread?

I say stay, because I've not been able to read a story arc of Wonder Woman's before I started Azzerello's. I've tried many. Even Perez's one. Which for a while I enjoyed, but I just didn't care for the character. Az's I've enjoyed reading. I'm almost up to date. My next stuff is Orion. Which is the reason why I'm reading WW.

@innervenom123: I think you are right,I'm just want to wonder woman has some good feats.....

@supreme_marvel: I'm glad to see Orion is bringing people in. Also do you like how he is being portrayed?

perez's run is the real defination of WW,that's her true core as a character,if you didn't like it is because you never wwere a true fan,which is fine,not everyone has the sama taste,but that's why azzarello must leave,there is no point in keeping him to writte for the few new fans of his run that never cared about WW before,there is no point in that,he keeps ruining her character.

azzarello must leave,there is no point in keeping him to writte for the few new fans of his run that never cared about WW before,there is no point in that,he keeps ruining her character.

@gokuwarrior: correct me if im wrong but i thought perez run had lower sales than azzarello? also this nothing against you but i hate this true fan thing it for some reason piss me off again nothing against you

@darknightspideyfanboy: perez's run sold more specially worldwide.

The market for comics was bigger back then.