Azzerello? Leave or Stay

Posted by lilben42 (2563 posts) 1 year, 3 months ago

Poll: Azzerello? Leave or Stay (172 votes)

Stay 65%
Leave 15%
I don't care 20%

I personally think his book is amazing, and can't wait to see where he takes us. At the beginning I had some complaints but I easily got over it by the 11th issue.

#451 Posted by WhineHaus (84 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: Good points. I think too many define heroes based on their power level, strength, and feats/accomplishments. Also, I've been so interested in Zeus and his fate since the first issue. I can't wait to see how the story unfolds.

@gokuwarrior: I don't mind that she's not being defined by her feats and fights. I like a good story, and I think Azzarello is writing a good story. It's going slow, I agree with you, but that doesn't make the writing bad. Just ...slow. It all comes down to personal preference.

#452 Posted by lilben42 (2563 posts) - - Show Bio

@whinehaus: Yeah, and it's not really slow just long. I think Zeus will return soon but I'm really not sure.

#453 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: Thank you

But might I add why do you want Diana to be close to Clark in power levels?

#454 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: wonder woman has always been much more powerful than aquaman and more powerful than supergirl and powergirl,i want her to stay that way,i hate the logic of some people saying that she shouldn't be a superman clone,she is not a superman clone,she was moving planets before superman,so get your facts right,and even if she doesn't move planets now,she should still be a powerhouse way above aquaman and above powergirl and supergirl,and be able to fight and beat top tier characters.

and i hate the lack of action and feats,because it's been almost 2 years and we haven't seen a highlinght moment in her book in terms of feats and fights,and the slowe motion of the story arc makes it even worse.

by the way,i can't see my notifications,what is going on?.

#455 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: Wonder woman always is moving planets level strength, you dont know?I just want to keep up her tradition

#457 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2246 posts) - - Show Bio

Back when Azzerello was writing the Joker and Lex Luthor books, I wanted him to do one for Cheetah or Ares.

#458 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: @gokuwarrior: I know she has always been a powerhouse and She may be one of my favorite super heroes. But thats been something I always had a problem with. Superman is annoying strong because he is a kryptonian and he gets his power from our yellow sun right? So why would Power Girl and Super Girl be weaker than him. Do they absorb less sunlight than him ? Wonder Woman should be just an amazing warrior were her power level is building toppling or spaceship throwing but not tossing a planets at other planets. It doesn't fit her background to me. I know she is a demi god now but the gods themselves don't seem too strong. If anything I would think her being a demigod would enhance her magical abilities not as should become a caster like Zatanna. But maybe she could have a greater variety of mythical weapons. I see that you two prefer tradition. I prefer tradition in some situations too. Like I would rather have the Steve Trevor relationship. But sometimes change can great it just that DC seems to toss away the great changes like Zatanna and her new Goth Princess(although she was depowered to near uselessness) and Harley on what I assume was her path to becoming an anti-hero with a healing factor. I seem to be drifting so Ill wrap it up. I don't think it would be a bad thing if Wonder Woman was depowered to me just a tad better than Aquaman its not as if her villians require Superman level strength

#459 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: wonder woman should always be way more powerful than aquaman,and her main villans are gods and avatars,cheetha is an speeder with enough strength to incapasitate aquaman with one attack like she already proved,silver swan has super trength,super speed and sonic attacks that can blow un entire cities,etc,etc.

wonder woman was moving planets way before superman,but even if she doesn't move planets,she should still be powerful ernough to fight planet busters.

#460 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: Supergirl and Powergirl weaker than superman for sure,but not too much,so if superman beat supergirl is because he has more experience

#461 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: superman has been absorbing the sun light for many many yrears more than supergirl,he is more powerful than supergirl by a considerable marging.

#462 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: No,supergirl absorbing sunlight also many many years

#463 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman:but superman have been on earth much longer than supergirl.

#464 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: It's same thing,supergirl absorbing sunlight many years,and it will maximize supergirl exposure prior to landing,also Yellow sunlight works faster on Kara than on Clark, suggesting her system is more efficient at processing sunlight than his.

so,superman is stronger than supergirl,General grounds Superman is MAN,he has MORE muscle,he has more solar energy,he has more feats,but the scans show superman isnt has more solar energy than supergirl,by the feats,a tons charater who can beat superman or at least as strong as him,but they are isnt has too much strength feats,like Darkseid,we never see Darkseid moving a planet,but it's dont mean he was weaker than wonder woman,so,Feat is very important, but it also needs context

#465 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio
#466 Edited by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: @gokuwarrior: I know she has been strong as superman man. But in my opinion her story doesnt support her strength level. She may fight gods but they don't seem like planet busters to me. Also they are immortal and can more than often only be harmed by some mythical weapon. So why does she need to be planet buster. When did Cheetah take down Aquaman. Silver Swan may have super strength but shes not even close to superman.I they should focus on her skills as a warrior instead of sheer power.

So Clark is stronger because he has absorbed more yellow sunlight, right?. So the more sunlight he absorbs the more powerful he gets(like the hulk and anger). Well that's boring. But I do have a question about the red son dilemma. They are depowered when under a red son correct? Does all the sunlight they have absorbed leave their bodies immediately like some sunlight purge or does it leave gradually? When they are back under a yellow son are their power levels returned to the previous state or do they have to re-absorb their way back up

#467 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: Superman isnt absorbed more yellow sunligh,read my scans

as for you question, Some of the stories superman can store yellow sunlight,some of the stories isnt, bodies immediately for sure

#468 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: wonder woman should at least be close to superman like she has always been most of her career,they can still focus on her skill without depowering her.

#469 Edited by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: Wonder woman is superman strength level,but she always has bad writter

#470 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: @gokuwarrior: I see were you both are coming from. But I think if she is to be that at strength level they should change her origin story a little bit. I know it has been a tradition but it doesn't make sense to me. There is no point in focusing on her weaponry and warrior skills if she can punch through anything.

#471 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: her strength used to come from geat,mother earth,the earth itself,and her other powers were divine too,i think that origin is perfect,and she can'ty punch through everything and doesn't matrter how powerful she is because there are characters more powerful and she doesn't overpower her opponents no matter how powerful she is,she always uses skills to outfight them.

#473 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: This is first of wonder woman strength level:

SA superman family(supergirl etc),GA shazam family(mary marvel etc) Wonder woman these charater strength level is infinite

#474 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I prefer her new origin where she is a demigod and think her power levels should correspond accordingly with that. Why does she need to be so powerful she isn't out carrying planets with invisible jet anymore

@powerwoman: I know how powerful she is. What Im saying is that I don't think she should be.

#475 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: i didn't talk about moving planets,but before 52 she was strong enough to move 1/3 of the earth,light speed,very,very high level of combat speed and reflexes,and huge durability against everything except piercing weapons that are her weakness,i think her power level shout at least be the same as before 52,but not lower,never lower than that,so i'm still waiting to see at least the type of feats she had before new 52.

#476 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Don't you think great feats achieved at a lower level are better. Like whats better Superman beating Darkseid or Batman beating Darkseid.

#477 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: batman beating darksied is pure crap,like batman beating wonder woman WITH HER POWERS,please don't even try to argue about that,BAD WRITTING MOMENTS=BIG THE HEADACHE.

i want wonder woman to be a powerhouse like she has always been and fight gods,avatars and powerful demonds like she used to,the power level before 52 is the least that i can tolerate,lower than that i won't accept.

#478 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I think he says wonder woman dont should be that strong,she need weak

#479 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: i know,but i don't agree,wonder woman should be at least as powerful as before 52,never less than that.

#480 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: No,If superman bench earth five days,wonder woman need bench sun a week!like GA wonder woman she did it!!lol

though i agree with you

#481 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: i know what you mean,but considering the feats that she has right now,i would be happy if at least she gets the feats that she used to perform before new 52.

#482 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Up,DC should be make superman depowered and give wonder woman good showing

#483 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: It was an example.What I was say it feats are better when they present an almost impossible challenge. Wonder Woman beating Ares when she is stronger than him or at same power level is power is boring to me. Now a weaker Wonder Woman fighting a stronger Ares makes a better story to me because she has to give her all push her limits and it seems convincing .She could still fight gods without being as powerful as you want her to be. I don't want her to be a powerhouse because it downplays her skills a a warrior. Why would she use a sword and shield when her fists are better whats the point of all the amazon training if she is on supermans level of power her villians aren't even that strong in terms of physical strength.

#484 Posted by Mr_Zatura (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: Why does she need to keep up with Clark thats what makes him so bland to me.

#485 Posted by PowerWoman (3465 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: New 52 superman EASILY bench earth weight five days,this just a silly plot,DC just suck again,so,superman need depowered,wonder woman always super-powerful,but new 52 wonder woman even not as powerful as pre-52 wonder woman,she get depowered just like you think,she isnt need super-power,new 52 wonder woman just a warrior,almost 0 powerful strength/speed feats

#486 Posted by prettywonderboy (24 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read a lot of wonder woman stories but i have to say that im loving this one by brian azarello so far. Sure, it doesn't have a lot of "insane strength" feats but it's a great story nonetheless. I wasn't a fan of the art at first but i got fond of it after a few issues.

#487 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_zatura: she can't beat an opponent if she is way weaker than the opponent she is fighting,so your example is bad,and i don't agree that being weaker makes the stories more interesting,i can see great fights where she is very powerful and still has to go to her limits against certain opponents like ares,in the past she was near superman's power level and she still struggled against different opponents that were more powerful than her,cheetah is an speeder faster than WW and almost as strong and durable as WW,ares was more powerful than her,silver swan had powers that came from ares,circe was also a WW thread level character,etc,so we don't need her to be weaker,she always had convincing fights with these villans.

she has always used skills in her figths,she uses skills to outfight her opponents whatever they are weaker,as powerful or more powerful than her,she has always used skills and not raw power alone,she never used swords and shields as her main weapons before so i don't care about that.

so she shouln't be weaker than before new 52,PERIOD.

#488 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

lol! Stay! even when Azarello's WW still so masculine for me, reading your posts and how ya guys get enraged at the possibility that WW could needs help for to finish her missions, or better, to be "depowered" lol, to not grind her enemies by bare hands, this could be a start for a finally a Wonder Woman that makes me proud: a true feminine one.

#489 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:nobody wants to see a WW that needs help all the time,and she shouln't be depowered,your concept that she should be using sex appeal,that she has to be weaker and be with a strong man is irrelevant here,this is about WW,she has to be the star of her own title,there can be many situations where she can team up with others,but she also must have her moments to shine on her own,and she doesn't grind her opponents,you don't even care to read enough stuff from her to understand her character,the way she treats people and how she fights,and you complain?,if you think that when WW fights alone or when she isn't with a strong man makes her masculine or whatever is your oppinion,nobody has to change her for you to find her and make her a magical girl for you to find her "more femenine",you can read something elae if you don't like WW,you obiously don't like her comic.

#490 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: "you can read something elae if you don't like WW,you obiously don't like her comic." Yeah i dont like the comic how, so far, it be showed/offered to the public. That doesnt means that she has no need for a change, and as you say so, its my opinion, but i has the rigth to express it, as ya guys has the rigth to express your opinions: thast what Diversity it means. I like her, because i likes female Brunettes with blue eyes, and i likes her showing her goodies in a tiny uniform, im a hetero man, dont blame me for it. What you stands for , from my point of view, its to promote violence against women. Wonder woman , as a warrior that has no need of help, as you claims, are always in the front of battle, being the primary target of their enemies for to be punished, forced, tied, and much more things that a PG forum doesnt lets to mention. You are promoting violence against women using WW as an excuse that all women has no need of men's protection.

Also, for a female superheroine, just take a look how a feminine woman just handled the thread using no phsycal violence or showing a masculine behavior: Barbarella comic from Jean-Claude Forest

#491 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles: and why would WW need a man's protection?,the title is WW not WW and,that's like asking batwoman to be batman's protector,and nopbody says WW never needs help,that is not true,she has had helps in certain occasionsfrom females or males and it's ok,but just like batman,WW will be the star of her own comic,like any character with a solo title,they will have their moments to fight and shine on their own because they are the stars of their comics,and there is nothing wrong with that,and there is nothing wrong with WW being a melee fighter.

you said before that she should be like sailor moon,maybe WW should be a galaxy buster like saior moon,like sailor moon,she could release an energy attack that destroy everyone in the whole galaxy but it'd be ok,it'd be in a femenine way because she wouldn't be using her fists,LOL.

#492 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles: and why would WW need a man's protection?,the title is WW not WW and,that's like asking batwoman's to be batman's protector,and nopbody says WW never needs help,that is not true,she has had helps in certain occasions and it's ok,but just like batman,WW will be the star of her own comic,like any character with a solo title,they will have their moments to fight and shine on their own because they are the stars of their comics,and there is nothing wrong with that,and there is nothing wrong with WW being a melee fighter.

you said before that she should be like sailor moon,maybe WW should be a galaxy buster like saior moon,like sailor moon,she could release an energy attack that destroy everyone in the whole galaxy but it'd be ok,it'd be in a femenine way because she wouldn't be using her fists,LOL.

well, i just released some ideas lol. Im not against her power, im against her masculine power. Whats the metaphor inside this: That she controls a masculine that does her job: the masculine thing that she controls for to defeat her enemies are her bare hands, her biceps and her warrior attitude. Its almost the same than witchblade with her amazing arm. If what Marlston tried and intended to do its to make a popular/powerful Mistress/Dominatrix for to fullfill his BDSM fantasies, he is achieveing it.

PS. To rely to a man will proves me that she is so far from feminism, its simple.

#493 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:there is nothing wrong with her powers being physical,like in real life many women like to train in martial arts,and she has had the help from men and she doesn't reject it,so i don't know where are you getting this concept that she doesn't like help from men,she is not the kind of fighter that likes to show her abilities by defeating somebody to a pulp and she is always willing to colaborate with other people,women and men,that's how she is in 80% of her comics through a career spanding 7 decades.

#494 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:there is nothing wrong with her powers being physical,like in real life many women like to train in martial arts,and she has had the help from men and she doesn't reject it,so i don't know where are you getting this concept that she doesn't like help from men,she is not the kind of fighter that likes to show her abilities by defeating somebody to a pulp and she is always willing to colaborate with other people,women and men,that's how she is in 80% of her comics through a career spanding 7 decades.

7 decades, but she were not the same within that 7 decades. Actually: 70 yeats within humans, and she even bought s fancy dress for her? 70 years and no pregnancy and birthchild? i knows even feminists that are mothers! something must be wrong

"there is nothing wrong with her powers being physical", well its your opinion , and i respect it, My opinion its she must not deploys masculine strenght/behavior/language/attitude and look. its simple.

#495 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:how could she be a mother and face the danger that she faces regularly?,you know that the rerason why heros like batman,superman and WW don't have children and family is because it's too dangerous and they don't want anything bad to happen to them,they sacrifice their own happiness to fight for a world where all the other people can live a better life.

she doesn't display masuline behavoir,language and attitude unless you're talking about the terribler work from johns.

wonder woman is much more than being femenine,she is an example of life,she never trys to beat someone to a pulp,she never overpowers her opponents she uses skills with her powers to outfight them,while someone like hulk uses raw power alone and crushes everyone,wonder woman uses skills to outfight her opponents trying to cause the less amount of damage possible.

she always trys to talk things out,and that leads us to what george perez said,"even an ambassador of peace has a limit",wonder woman only fights as the last resort,she always trys to talk things out,even letting herself getting hit over and over trying to talk and reaon,so she is much more than someone who has to look sexy figting her opponents and look femenine,she an ambassador of peace that consistently shows how the violence should never be the first answer for anything,she is never going for the fists as the first answer,never,she gives and lives the example of somebody that believes that talking is much more useful than brut force.

#496 Edited by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: how could she be a mother and face the danger that she faces regularly?,you know that the rerason why heros like batman,superman and WW don't have children and family is because it's too dangerous and they don't want anything bad to happen to them,they sacrifice their own happiness to fight for a world where all the other people can live a better life.

This one are my point: you guys sacrifice her maternity for to see her beating villains. Its a very selfish attitude from yours, to dont let her to be a mother, because "is her duty".

"she always trys to talk things out,and that leads us to what george perez said,"even an ambassador of peace has a limit",wonder woman only fights as the last resort,she always trys to talk things out,even letting herself getting hit over and over trying to talk and reaon,so she is much more than someone who has to look sexy figting her opponents and look femenine,she an ambassador of peace that consistently shows how the violence should never be the first answer for anything,she is never going for the fists as the first answer,never,she gives and lives the example of somebody that believes that talking is much more useful than brut force.!

This still must be confirmed.

#497 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:selfish?,she is a fictional character dude,she is portrayed as a hero,heros sacrifice their own lives for other people,the fact that WW sacrifices her life,happiness and chance to be a mother to dedicate herself to the world is another thing that makes her a true heroine.

she always trys to talk things out,and that leads us to what george perez said,"even an ambassador of peace has a limit",wonder woman only fights as the last resort,she always trys to talk things out,even letting herself getting hit over and over trying to talk and reaon,so she is much more than someone who has to look sexy figting her opponents and look femenine,she an ambassador of peace that consistently shows how the violence should never be the first answer for anything,she is never going for the fists as the first answer,never,she gives and lives the example of somebody that believes that talking is much more useful than brut force.!

THIS HASN'T TO BE CONFIRMED,BECAUSE THIS IS THE WAY THAT SHE IS PORTRAYED IN ALMOST ALL HER VERSIONS,YOU STILL DOUBT IT?,THEN YOU OBIOUSLY DIDN'T READ PEREZ,RUKA,AND SIMONE RUNS,READ THEM AND PUT AN END TO ALL YOUR DOUBTS.

#498 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: selfish?,she is a fictional character dude,she is portrayed as a hero,heros sacrifice their own lives for other people,the fact that WW sacrifices her life,happiness and chance to be a mother to dedicate herself to the world is another thing that makes her a true heroine.

Even fictional characters are allowed to give up, to show their feelings. I saw it in Nolan's Batman and in The man of Steel. She has the right to feel doubts about her own motives, i thinks that that will makes rich her comic and the character.

#499 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles: she has had doubts and we had a vision of her future in the simone run where she got married and have a child,but in the mainstream comics,batman,superman and wonder woman never form a familty,their jobs don't allow them to do it,it's part of being a hero,maybe a writter could try to make them have children and family,but seeing what 95% of the writters do,obiously most of them don't want to get even more work by having to writte batman,superman,wonder woman and their children,family,their regular lives,etc,that means more work,that most writters don't want as you can see.

#500 Posted by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: "wonder woman never form a familty,their jobs don't allow them to do it,it's part of being a hero,maybe a writter could try to make them have children and family,but seeing what 95% of the writters do,obiously most of them don't want to get even more work by having to writte batman,superman,wonder woman and their children,family,their regular lives,etc,that means more work,that most writters don't want as you can see.

This its an issue that i discussed with jphulk: are the writers the ones that commands that heroes has no rigth for families? Or are the fans? Think very well your answer. Besides. Goku is a Hero, the savior of Universe, and he has family, devoted wife, 2 kids. So, your argument about no family for heroes arent very accurated.

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