Azzarello's run: Your likes and dislikes

#1 Posted by r2datu (715 posts) - - Show Bio

With Azzarello's run finishing soon, it seems about time to take a look back at a run that became one of, if not the single most critically acclaimed runs of the New 52 but was also highly divisive affair among fans. In many ways it was truly a love it or hate it affair.

Let's see what the fans thought. What did you like about the run? What didn't you like about the run?

And just out of curiosity, what previous experience, if any, did you have with Wonder Woman before this run? Are you a new fan brought into the fold by this run? Are you an old veteran who liked what he saw despite the changes? Or are you a long time fan who was turned off by the reboot?

I'll start us off:

I was first introduced to Wonder Woman through Gail Simone's The Circle some years ago and quickly fell in love, soon devouring the entire run. Hungry for more, I soon stumbled upon Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman which became one of my favorite comic runs of all time, even if the ending stumbled due to editorial interference. It's a shame since I firmly believe that if Rucka had been allowed to finish his story the way he wanted, it would have been one of the greatest comic runs of any company ever. Since then, I read through George Perez' run and over time, consumed essentially the entire Wonder Woman catalogue post-Crisis, only missing an issue here and there.

Now, onto Azzarello's run. Overall, I have enjoyed it immensely thus far despite the changes to the origin. I tolerate the changes as it remains similar enough to the original (daughter of the Amazons with powers given to her by the gods) and it got Wonder Woman's personality right, which is what is most important to me. However, the run is not perfect by any means.

What I liked:

1. Wonder Woman's personality:

Hers is a very difficult personality to nail down and a select few have succeeded. Writers like John Byrne, William Messner-Loebs and Geoff Johns have stumbled in this regard, but Azzarello joins the select few such as George Perez, Greg Rucka and Gail Simone, who gets it right.

His Wonder Woman has all of the character traits that I love in the character and the combination of which makes her unique in my eyes:

  • Her compassion as shown when she helps friend and foe alike

  • The irony that she is a warrior for peace, as shown by her constant attempts at taking the path of non violence. This is taken to a further level by making her a God of War who only wants peace.

  • Her struggles with the idea of truth and the notion that there can be multiple truths

  • Her tendency to adopt patchwork families like the embassy staff in Rucka's run and the Gorilla Knights in Simone's run

  • Her pragmatism as shown by her killing of Ares and her willingness to submit to Moon

  • Her deep seated issues with anger and keeping her emotions in check, a story that was touched upon by Gail Simone in Ends of the Earth and Rise of the Olympian. It was brought into the fold once more with the removing of her bracelets.

2. The art:

Good god, the art. Cliff Chiang is perfect for Wonder Woman. He manages to make her beautiful and statuesque without sexualising her in the slightest. His art reminds me of Greek paintings and all of the characters and monsters look great and unique.

3. The characters:

It's a sin of so many WW writers that they throw out the previous supporting characters, maybe keeping one or two of them and setting up their own cast. Byrne, Messner-Loebs and even Rucka all did this. But much like Rucka's embassy staff, it helps that Azzarello's cast are all very interesting. Zola, Hera, Hermes and Apollo are all multifaceted and intriguing characters who I hope stick around after all is said and done.

4. The story:

The structure and development of the story is very unique and surprisingly sophisticated. It's one, long unbroken tale that would most likely read better in trades, but the way it's set out is very interesting. Rather than being plot driven, it's the various themes that drive the story forward and inform the decisions of the characters. It also takes an interesting approach to character development as the development of Wonder Woman seemed to happen externally as her makeshift family formed and developed around her. It was a similar approach to that taken by Greg Rucka with Punisher where the titular character served as something of a nexus point for the rest as they developed through her and she developed through them.

What I disliked:

1. The new origin:

I flip flop on this one. Sometimes I like the new origin since it ties in with the idea of Diana struggling against her conceptions of truth and gives her a more tangible link to the gods. But most of the time, I just think the old origin was far cooler and more unique. It really set her apart from other heroes, not just in comics but in literature in general.

2. The Amazon man-hunting backstory:

This is probably the worst thing about the new run and really left a bad taste in my mouth. It just came off as somewhat tasteless and made the Amazons seem like little more than savages. It's something that I hope gets retconned at a later point. Maybe Hephaestus was lying? Wouldn't be the first time an Olympian has lied through his/her teeth. I tolerate this particular change because not only is it a part of the mythology, it's also a part of Marston's run where his Amazons were depicted as hunting men for sex several times throughout his run. However, just because something is from Marston's run doesn't mean that it meshes with the character today and I hope that this particular piece of history gets cast to the side.

3. The lack of old villains:

I quite like the new villains Azzarello has created and favoring new villains is something that so many Wonder Woman writers are guilty of. But I really would have loved to see how some of her old rogues gallery would fit into this epic. I think Cheetah could have been a great addition as the champion of another pantheon and Circe fit perfectly considering her goals and origins.

4. The toned down action sequences:

Don't get me wrong, there are some fantastic battles such as Wonder Woman's first two fights with moon and First Born vs Apollo. I don't believe that the fights in this make Wonder Woman appear weak since all of her opponents are clearly on her level of strength. I do miss however the sheer craziness of battles from Rucka and Simone's run. In particular, I miss Rucka's fight choreography and the way he would mix superpowers with martial arts.

So yeah those are my thoughts on this run so far. As long as they don't royally mess it up, it should slot firmly into fourth place in my top 5 Wonder Woman runs.

What are your thoughts?

#2 Edited by r2datu (715 posts) - - Show Bio

I also want to note that this is set up for opinions and civilized discussion so while I realise this is a touchy topic for some, please keep it civil! So, fans of the run, please try to refrain from insulting the opinions of detractors and people who dislike the run, please refrain from insulting fans. Also, let's try to keep the silly phrases like "Flopparello" out of this discussion. Keep it clean, guys!

#3 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34369 posts) - - Show Bio

Likes: Everything.

Dislikes: It's Ending.

#4 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1424 posts) - - Show Bio

@r2datu: don't know about how original her origin was is since it remind me of Pinocchio both Hippolyta and Geppetto pray to some god for a child of course both Pinocchio and Diana were made of some thing.But if there was something i did like about diana old origin was that she was bless with power from each different gods.I seriously need to find a copy of marston run i need to check out this sexual innuendo he put in there.agree with 3 wish there was more of her old villain also everything in your like i agree.

#5 Posted by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

I think before Wonder Woman was a servant to her Gods, an obsequious creature especially designed to serve and worship them. I didn't like that very much, her personality was not her own. Rucka's particularly was only second to Jesus Christ. Azzarello's is zestier and a bit less sanctimonious, she made mistakes. Unfortunately, she's also horribly naive. I also miss the Cheetah but I do think Wonder Woman needs new foes, preferably male from far away galaxies because her enemies tend to be jealous women with no better purpose than hurting her.

Needless to say, I'm a big fan of Chiang and I'll miss him dearly. I feel like he understood the character of Wonder Woman. His character designs are fresh and crisp save Hades and Poseidon.

#6 Posted by Muffin_Sangria (678 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I was trying to write something up for this thread but I ended up with a billion thing I didn't like and one thing I did so I'll just say that I though First Born was pretty cool.

#7 Posted by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

I dislike his replacement.

#8 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

Very Intelligent Analysis My Friend. Very Intelligent. I haven´t read this run for a long time. Read first 14 issues and just thought, slow, boring, uninteresting, not even wonder woman. Also Rucka did not drop Diana supporting cast, he just added to it. To be fair. I believe Steve, Etta and a number of others all appeared in Ruckas runs, especially her Amazon supporting cast. All in All it wasn´t the worst WW I´ve read, that goes to Loeb, but it is in someways the one I hated most.

#9 Edited by Primebonnick (2740 posts) - - Show Bio

Like

Character devlopment

art

new villains

ares

Dislike

Design of the Gods

Lack of new 52

lack of classic rogues

new ares (seems more like a mars than an ares)

lack of cersei

#10 Posted by r2datu (715 posts) - - Show Bio

Great thoughts and ideas guys!

#11 Edited by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been a long-time fan of the character and have read a lot of old and new versions alike. I thought Azzarello's run was solid - there were some real high points but also some sections where it dragged a bit. His characterization of Wonder Woman was strong, though, again, there were stretches where she didn't really do much of interest and sometimes felt superfluous in her own book. Here are my official like and dislikes:

Like:

  1. The use of Greek mythology. This has always been one of the aspects of the character that I find intriguing and Azzarello and Chiang did a marvelous job with it. The designs of the gods are great - it was so nice to see some creativity in this regard rather than just a bunch of white people in togas. Hades in particular stood out to me as a great design, and I loved the moment when Poseidon showed up. Dionysus was a bit of a disappointment - I felt like there was a lot more they could have done with that design, but overall the mythology was excellent.
  2. The art. Chiang is great and his style really fit the subject matter. I agree that the art was reminiscent of Ancient Greek art - it kind of reminded me of Greek urns.
  3. The scope. Though it dragged at times, I like that they told a really long, epic story, and I'm glad D.C. didn't interfere.
  4. The isolation. I was glad the book didn't tie into the larger D.C. Universe - it allowed Azzarello to tell his story and to keep the character consistent. Tie-ins always feel like a money grab to me and they disrupt quality story-telling, so I was glad that my favorite character was free of that for a while.
  5. The action. And by this I mean that I like that action wasn't always the focus of the book. There were some big battles, but even then they focused on the role that the battle played in the story rather than a bunch of splash pages just for the sake of it. They gave us what we needed to know to understand how the fights played out, and didn't waste time with anything more.
  6. The sophistication. Azzarello refused to dumb this book down and, in giving his readers the credit they deserve, ended up with a great book. I wish more writers would treat the characters and, more importantly, the readers with that kind of respect more often.

Didn't Like:

  1. The changes to her origin. Her being Zeus's daughter makes her just like all of Zeus's other offspring and thus a lot less interesting/unique. I can live with that, though. The notion of the Amazons sleeping with and murdering sailors, though, is appalling and unnecessary. It didn't add anything to the story and changed the nature of the Amazons in a way that was only harmful. One of Marston's goals was to recast the Amazons, who had always been seen as violent man-haters, as peace-loving and beautiful. Azzarello undid all of that and turned the Amazons back into symbols of society's fear of powerful women. Forget about a future writer retconning this away - Azzarello aught to do the decent thing and retcon it himself before he leaves.
  2. The non-pantheon supporting cast. I might be in the minority here, but I thought the supporting cast was too much of a distraction at times. All the Greek mythology stuff was great, but Zola, Lennox, and Orion weren't nearly as interesting to me. Zola was just too helpless most of the time and it felt like she was just tagging along. Lennox was okay, but Azzarello's love of dialect (even though he's terrible at writing it) derailed the character for me. Orion was the worst. I don't know why he was in the story and when he showed up it almost felt like he was the star of the book rather than Wonder Woman. Orion is, in my mind, Azzarello's biggest misstep.
  3. The other artists. Some of the fill-ins did a good job, but in general it was pretty obvious when someone other than Chiang handled the art and it was always a step down. Akins, in particular, seemed like a stylistic shift in all the wrong directions.
  4. The slow periods. The story seems to be split into 12 issue "acts." The first few issues were always interesting and set up an interesting premise, and the final issues were always suitably epic, but in between there were some real snoozer issues. I'm fine with taking some time to character build, but there were a few issues where I felt that nothing had happened plot or character-wise by the end of the book. As much as I like the massive scope of the story, I still think it could have been about 25% shorter without losing anything.
  5. The word-play. All of Azzarello's books show his love of language and the extent to which he enjoys playing with it. Unfortunately, he isn't very good at it. I wish he'd stop resorting to puns and bad attempts at dialect - they are distracting rather than clever.

In the end, I'm not sorry to see Azzarello go, but not because I didn't like his work, but because I think he's gotten all he can get out of the character and it's time to move on. I just hope the next writer doesn't blow it (though I'm not optimistic).

As I've said on these forums before, I'm ambivalent about this run. It's definitely in the pantheon of good Wonder Woman runs, and there have been frighteningly few of those. It's not as good as Perez, Rucka, or Simone, and while it's hard to compare runs from different eras, I'd also rank it behind Marston's originals. But it's a huge step above most of the Wonder Woman runs out there, and was better than almost every other superhero book on the stands at the time of its publication. I looked forward to the book each month and always read it first on the weeks that it came out.

#12 Posted by Experio (16961 posts) - - Show Bio

Liked everything apart from the change in the origin and the varying in art.

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#13 Posted by r2datu (715 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer

Wow, fantastic analysis! Really loved reading that. Though in terms of the rape-Amazons that was actually something taken from Marston's run. There were multiple references and depictions of them "husband hunting".

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p664/Pinsir/Wonder%20Woman/Classics/AmazaonRape1_zps30a6f9b0.png

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p664/Pinsir/Wonder%20Woman/Classics/AmazaonRape2_zps06df6fda.png

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p664/Pinsir/Wonder%20Woman/Classics/AmazaonRape3_zps04cdb6b0.png

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p664/Pinsir/Wonder%20Woman/Classics/AmazaonRape4_zps76a0e2f1.png

Which is why I dislike it, there are certain aspects of Marston's run that really don't mesh with the modern interpretation of the character.

#14 Posted by Bezza (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

Like: The art, the story, the full cast of greek mythology characters from legend, the "proper" storylines..

Dislike: not enough WW action, not enough WW power feats, lack of stories told in a relatable environment.

...love it or loathe it, certainly has been a very notable period of story telling in WWs history.

#15 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8160 posts) - - Show Bio

Ilike almost all of it except the Cheetah Villains issue I fail to see how it effects WW

#16 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecheesestabber: I agree about the villains issue - and I would put Firstborn's in there as well.

But this also reminds me of another "like": the 0 issue. So many of DC's 0 issues in 2012 were awful, but Wonder Woman's was not only excellent in its own right, but ended up being very important to the larger story arc. What at first seemed like an entertaining but inconsequential diversion turned out top be a crucial plot/character device. The foresight involved was impressive.

#17 Edited by TheCheeseStabber (8160 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: But at least First Born had a story arc going, Cheetah for some reason had WW working a job at a muesum and everything and she wasnt mentioned once through out the series and with Azza's run coming to a close soon I don't see a way she could be involved

#18 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio

DISLIKED

The book comes out monthly.... I hate waiting that long for Wonder Woman.

LIKED

EXPANDED ORIGIN

The new Origin is hands down the best thing that happened to Wonder Woman (Actually its not a "new Origin" Its an expanded origin) is the best part of the whole book. Without it the book would not work at all.

The clay origin does absolutely NOTHING for the character aside from bringing a whole lot of confusion to the character. She is made of CLAY.... now what? it really served no purpose other than it was unique.

Some argue that Wonder Woman should not have been created with any male seed. However, with the clay origin Wonder Woman ALSO does not have a real mother. Hippolyta is only a foster mother at best with the clay origin. Meanwhile every being in greek mythology had some kind of connection to a mother / father. Why not Wonder Woman.

Simone tried to make the clay origin relevant by saying her clay was taken from the cave of Cottus a slimy monster living under Theymisciara. So what? does that make Cottus her father? because thats how Gail Simone left it before the New 52.

The Clay origin creates way to many issues.

Azzarello masterfully fixed Wonder Womans convoluted origin and at the same time preserved the clay origin in Wonder Woman history. He did not just "change her origin" he added to it and in the process fixed a lot of problems with Wonder Woman and used it to create a very entertaining story.

AMAZONS MERGED

Not all Amazons are created equal. There are have been Bana Migdol Amazons and Theymisciara Amazons in the past. Rather than do away with one type in favor of the other Azzarello averaged the two and now we have Amazons that are not TOO GOOD and not TOO BAD. Azzarello. has not fully explained the morals of the Amazons but I like the new Amazons much more than the old. They seem much more like Warriors. in a functioning society. They all have there different personalities and flavors.

FOCUS ON STORY rather than "FEATS"

Wonder Woman is an ongoing story that needed serious help. I have loved the character for a long time and have always seen the potential in the character of Wonder Woman in the DC universe. Azzarello crafted a story which give Wonder Woman a solid personality and infrastructure for future stories. Wonder Woman's world feels real, exciting and dangerous now. The foundation has been set for other writers now that a solid origin has been established for her.... I am glad Azzarello stuck with it and crafted this amazing run....For those of you that read comics books for "FEATS" to take on the battle thread I am sure that new writers will focus on that once Azzarello is done... Now that we have a solid back story for writers to build on... don't much care if the next writer goes "FEATS" crazy

#19 Edited by NukeA6 (518 posts) - - Show Bio

Likes

  • Wonder Woman feels a bit more like the pre-Flashpoint WW than the rest of the New 52 where she's almost like Red Sonja. I hate how she's become outside of Azarello's run.
  • I really like the design of the Greek gods and it makes them more original and noticeable. Before, the only god that mattered was Ares.
  • Being one of the top three ongoings in DC really put Wonder Woman on the spotlight.
  • The new villains introduced are pretty good and aren't campy.
  • Greek mythology was better implemented than in previous runs.
  • No tie-ins with any of the lame DC events. The story was just left alone and the relationship with WW and Orion is much more interesting than the forced relationship with Superman. The Batwoman team-up would be the only exception because that was pretty good and even had Medusa from Greek mythology.
  • That one fight with the Fallen One is one of the best fights in the New 52 by far.

Dislikes

  • Hades redesign is just horrible. Why is he a little boy?
  • Why does Apollo look more evil than Hades? He's supposed to be a sun god.
  • It would be nice to see some of her old villains. I know most of them sucked but I'd like to see what Azarello might have done with Cheetah or Circe.
  • There's a lack of feats for Wonder Woman. Feats are something known in Greek mythology especially with those who have Zeus as a father.
  • It's ending and will probably be mixed in with the rest of the New 52. This is really bad news for me because I really dislike how Wonder Woman has become in Justice League. Before, she was like Superman but wasn't afraid to go aggressive when needed. Now she's so prideful and spoiled and nobody likes the seemingly forced relationship with Superman.
#20 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

Everything about his run was amazing.There are only two things that I disliked a little and those things were:the fact that when Chiang wasn't doing the art it was so obvious and whoever was doing the art duties wasn't doing such a good job as him and the other thing was that sometimes it felt like a story that can be told a lot shorter is dragged a little bit too much.But apart from thse two minor complaints I have nothing else.

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#21 Posted by dmessmer (368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw said:

EXPANDED ORIGIN

The clay origin does absolutely NOTHING for the character aside from bringing a whole lot of confusion to the character. She is made of CLAY.... now what? it really served no purpose other than it was unique.

I suppose there's some truth to that, but I don't see that having Zeus as her father adds much either. That is a VERY common occurrence in Greek Mythology, and makes Wonder Woman just another of Zeus's many, many illegitimate offspring. She's basically just a female Hercules.

The clay origin spoke to how much Hyppolita wanted a child. I think it also emphasized what the Amazons had to give up in order to be a race of exclusively women. They fled "man's world" but in doing so gave up the possibility of motherhood. Wonder Woman therefore acts as both a reminder of what they've lost and a small consolation that all of the Amazons can share. It also makes it all the more meaningful that she becomes the bridge with the rest of the world since she is a symbol of what the Amazons could gain by making contact with men again. I always thought there was some real beauty in all of that, and Azzarello wrecked it with his two big retcons.

#22 Edited by WonderWomanFan8 (219 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw

"The new Origin is hands down the best thing that happened to Wonder Woman (Actually its not a "new Origin" Its an expanded origin) is the best part of the whole book. Without it the book would not work at all."

That's a pretty substantial claim to make. Also, it says a lot about the book if the best thing is a very simplified take on her origin, as opposed to the actual plot. So if Azz stuck to the pre-52 origin, that would've ruined the story for you? Wow wow wow...And technically, since Azz made out Diana's previous origin to be noting more than a LIE, it can't really expand on it since it isn't true anymore so...

"The clay origin does absolutely NOTHING for the character aside from bringing a whole lot of confusion to the character. She is made of CLAY.... now what? it really served no purpose other than it was unique."

And what's wrong with unique? Or do you prefer the more common, generalized 'bastard child of Zeus' approach?

"Some argue that Wonder Woman should not have been created with any male seed. However, with the clay origin Wonder Woman ALSO does not have a real mother. Hippolyta is only a foster mother at best with the clay origin. Meanwhile every being in greek mythology had some kind of connection to a mother / father. Why not Wonder Woman."

That's not entirely true. From the animated film, not only did Hippolyta sculpt Diana from the land of Themyscira, she also took a place, pierced her skin, drew blood, and wiped it on the clay forehead, so Diana technically was the blood daughter of Hippolyta. I also think it's unique that she was formerly not created with male heritage, seeing as how Diana used to have a sufficient supply of positive female role models in her creation. Unfortunately, she doesn't have that anymore due to the encroachment of male influence in her life from the new 52. Besides, if Hippolyta was the reincarnated pregnant cavewoman, I've began to think that perhaps it was an ancient Vandal Savage who got her pregnant, and ultimately killed Hippolyta before she gave birth. Now THAT would be more interesting that being another bastard of Zeus.

The clay origin creates problems for you, but the zeus baby origin actually creates more problems for her to deal with! Also, sex pirate amazons is "not too bad"? Diana should be aware of things like that, and she should confront them as opposed to running to avoid it in London. Her mother is now a lying adulteress who betrayed the trust of the main patron goddess Diana used to call on for strength. She's trained with the amazons her whole life, but it's implied that the 'better' training was with War. The main source of Diana's strength is no longer from a select group of goddesses and a god, but one god. Her feats of strength are underwhelming, despite the fact that she's supposed to be the daughter of the greek god of the heavens.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if most of this stuff were retconned away (as some of it probably will, and should) as I can't see these redundant changes having much staying power.

#23 Edited by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

@wdw said:

EXPANDED ORIGIN

The clay origin does absolutely NOTHING for the character aside from bringing a whole lot of confusion to the character. She is made of CLAY.... now what? it really served no purpose other than it was unique.

I suppose there's some truth to that, but I don't see that having Zeus as her father adds much either. That is a VERY common occurrence in Greek Mythology, and makes Wonder Woman just another of Zeus's many, many illegitimate offspring. She's basically just a female Hercules.

The clay origin spoke to how much Hyppolita wanted a child. I think it also emphasized what the Amazons had to give up in order to be a race of exclusively women. They fled "man's world" but in doing so gave up the possibility of motherhood. Wonder Woman therefore acts as both a reminder of what they've lost and a small consolation that all of the Amazons can share. It also makes it all the more meaningful that she becomes the bridge with the rest of the world since she is a symbol of what the Amazons could gain by making contact with men again. I always thought there was some real beauty in all of that, and Azzarello wrecked it with his two big retcons.

The clay origin spoke to how much Hyppolita wanted a child.

However the Zeus origin showed how much Hippolyta LOVED Diana and would do anything to protect her

I think it also emphasized what the Amazons had to give up in order to be a race of exclusively women. They fled "man's world" but in doing so gave up the possibility of motherhood. Wonder Woman therefore acts as both a reminder of what they've lost and a small consolation that all of the Amazons can share. It also makes it all the more meaningful that she becomes the bridge with the rest of the world since she is a symbol of what the Amazons could gain by making contact with men again

The clay origin "tries to do this" however in my opinion its missing one thing LOVE. In the clay origin Hippolyte wanted to have a child and would do anything to get it accept establishing a relationship with a man which would have been the easiest route to take.

. In Azzarello's version Hippolyta falls into a forbidden love or lust with Zeus. She gets pregnant and keeps the baby knowing full well the consequences if Hera found out. She loves Diana so much she and a few of her Trusted Generals concoct the elaborate clay origin to protect Diana.

Hippolyta's forbidden love of Zeus, the resulting child and the lengths she goes to protect that child..... is way more powerful in my opinion compared to Hippolyta simply preying to the GODS for a child because she is TOO stubborn to bridge the gap with men.

Eitherway Diana's birth in both situations could become the catalyst that becomes to bridge with the rest of the world.... The symbol is much more powerful in Azzarello's version because Hippolyta actually took the first step by giving birth to the only AMAZON on the island who was born as a result of a consensual trusting relationship rather than a forced one. Or as in the case with the CLAY origin.... a selfish desire for a child without having to trust any man to get it.

When you take a hard look at the Clay origin there is no real beauty or sacrifice or Trust involved with Diana's birth. Relative to Azarello's version The original Clay origin just seems like a selfish way out for the Amazons.

that is a VERY common occurrence in Greek Mythology, and makes Wonder Woman just another of Zeus's many, many illegitimate offspring

And why does Wonder Woman's birth need to be special? What makes Wonder Woman special, or anyone for that matter, is what she does as a person. Not the circumstances of her birth.

And being born from clay makes her even MORE illegitimate. Add to that the clay Hippolyta took to make Diana was from a Cave Beast that lives under Theymisciara.

I don't think it matters one bit that its a common occurrence in greek mythology.

Relative to the rest of humanity its a Spectacular Occurrence. Also Zeus is 1000's of years old so its not like there are a whole bunch of his children running around with the same abilities as wonder woman. She is still very unique.... and lets not forget. She is now Biologically Hippolyta's daughter which makes WAY more sense then Hippolyta making her out of clay.

These are my observations and opinions

#24 Posted by fodigg (6148 posts) - - Show Bio

Off the top of my head, I liked:

  • the art, especially how Diana's proportions are drawn (in comparison to the typical pinup silhouette in JL),
  • the use of mythic elements,
  • the introduction of new villains,
  • the new designs for the gods and demi-gods,
  • the new simpler-for-the-general-audience origin,
  • the childhood mentorship from Ares,
  • the various outfit designs we saw throughout the run,
  • the gathering of a new supporting cast,
  • the redemptive arc with Hera,
  • her relationship with her mother,
  • the development of a personal arsenal of weapons, not just the lasso,
  • the "to eleven" new aspects of her powers,
  • the non-crossover nature of the narrative,
  • the distance from JL characters, allowing her to do her own thing,
  • the introduction of Orion to mix in a wildly alternate concept of godhood (would have actually preferred more like this),
  • the willingness to put her in a new role (god of war) that embraces rather than evades the core tension of her archetype (warrior of peace),
  • the emphasis on personal courage,
  • the emphasis on compassion and love (not every fight won through punching).

And was not crazy about:

  • the darker aspects of the new Amazons, which I think was overstated even if I can accept its inclusion,
  • the uniformity of the new Amazons, I would've preferred to see factions within the larger group (would have been a better way to show the "dark amazon" aspects IMO),
  • how the Hephaestus' sons thing was presented left me feeling unsatisfied,
  • how at times Diana seemed overly quiet and broody when I wanted her to be active and bold,
  • how her power level fluctuated a little too wildly,
  • some slower pacing, especially when the baby narrative started to really drag (Rot World all over again).

#25 Edited by wondergirl26 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Likes: the art, the focus on Greek mythology, and Wonder Woman’s personality.

Azzarello’s run is my first experience reading a WW series. With that said, I can’t compare what I liked and didn’t like compared to previous runs. However, I can say this run has definitely made me a fan and I can’t wait to read more and get a better grasp of the characters history.

#26 Posted by WDW (1516 posts) - - Show Bio

Likes: the art, the focus on Greek mythology, and Wonder Woman’s personality.

Azzarello’s run is my first experience reading a WW series. With that said, I can’t compare what I liked and didn’t like compared to previous runs. However, I can say this run has definitely made me a fan and I can’t wait to read more and get a better grasp of the characters history.

If you can try to read Greg Rucka's run Wonder Woman Volume 2 Comic#195 - 226 It will probably make you more of a Fan :)

#27 Edited by ArchiZoom (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

@wdw said:

@wondergirl26 said:

Likes: the art, the focus on Greek mythology, and Wonder Woman’s personality.

Azzarello’s run is my first experience reading a WW series. With that said, I can’t compare what I liked and didn’t like compared to previous runs. However, I can say this run has definitely made me a fan and I can’t wait to read more and get a better grasp of the characters history.

If you can try to read Greg Rucka's run Wonder Woman Volume 2 Comic#195 - 226 It will probably make you more of a Fan :)

His greatest gift to us imo was having her beat Superman otherwise I didn't love his run so so much. She was dangerously close to Jesus Christ as far as kindness goes, apart from killing a man, and her enemies were all so jealous, it didn't show women in a very good light. Wonder Woman truly seemed like a faultless obedient machine engineered by the Gods, a little too nauseatingly perfect for my liking. She even spoke to animals and everything. Rucka had lots of maudlin moments such as when Superman was like "I'll never forgive you for saving my life and possibly that of thousands of people, UNFORGIVABLE!" and the Justice League was like "you killed a man, we're not talking to you bitch", or when Wonder Woman told the Amazons "NO! those are innocent bystanders, you mustn't kill them, let them obliterate you instead" and "let the forest burn, Flash". I have to say I was more than a little intrigued by those moments.

#28 Posted by Pokeysteve (8558 posts) - - Show Bio

I hated Azz's run and it doesn't deserve to be mentioned along with the likes of Perez, Rucka and even Simone.

  • He made her a supporting character in her own book.
  • The family problems angle has been overdone to death.
  • There's only been one decent villain.
  • What they did with Ares.
  • The extreme lack of anything interesting happening be it fights or plot twists.
  • The generic origin is the worst. I could have overlooked everything else but not that.
  • I thought he nailed her personality better than the other two that are writing her (Johns/Soule). Soule is close though.
  • I like how her and Hera are sort of buds now. Zeus' one bastard kid Hera doesn't hate is kind of refreshing.
  • The introduction of First Born is excellent! Love him and want to see more.

I mostly agree with the OP's likes and dislikes aside from that. I'm happy he's done.

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