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    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8718 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    Alternatives to the Clay/Demi-Goddess origins?

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    dernman

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    #1  Edited By dernman

    There is the heated debate over the two origins. To be honest I feel there are problems with both even though I lean heavily on the Demi-Goddess side. So it got me thinking about alternatives.

    There is the one where she gained her powers through Amazon training though that never sat well for me for problems I saw

    So I was thinking. What if they left it ambiguous or vague. Say Hippolyta was praying on the beach for a child in the middle of a storm when a baby in a basket washes ashore.

    From there you could have many different scenarios that will only be hinted at, misled for a story, or be a mystery.

    Here are just a few examples.

    Was it from the gods?

    • They saved the baby and gave it to her.
    • They created the baby gave it to her.
    • The baby is a new born goddess and gave it to her for whatever reason.

    Was it from a shipwreck?

    • A ship sink off the coast either from an attack passing through the barrier because she was an innocent child.
    • A ship sink off the coast either from he storm passing through the barrier because she was an innocent child.

    Was she stolen?

    • An Amazon knowing the Queen's pain took a baby from somewhere and pushed the baby there to be discovered.

    Amazon Armageddon?

    • In the future the Amazons who are going though devastating events use a spell to insert the best qualities (not power) from each of the Amazons into a newly born child. They magically send that child back through time to avoid or be there to face it.
    • The Gods Oracle have a prophecy about the Times of Troubles prompting the gods to use their power to insert the best qualities (not power) from each of the Amazons into a newly born child to avoid or be there to face it.

    Whatever the scenario. She grows up, eventually meets Steve Trevor, and enters the competition to become Wonder Woman to go to the man's world. She completes different challenges from individual gods gaining an ability each from them.

    I literally thought this up while I was typing so forgive the quality. What do you think about mine and what would you think of? The point being lets talk about alternatives that are workable.

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    Muffin_Sangria

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    I don't really like her having an origin that's left intentionally vague like that. That works for some character like the Joker, or the Phantom Stranger, but I don't think it's right for her. She's always had a definitive origin, and just taking that away for some mystery would seem weird. Starting her off not knowing where she came from but eventually finding out is an interesting way to start things though

    As for alternatives to the two current origins I think there are a few.

    A lot of people seem to hate the idea of clay specific as the medium that was used to create her, but there are a few other options there. She could be carved from ivory, or marble. She could be created out of thin air, or Hippolyta could have her through immaculate conception.

    I've said it before but a great alternative to the demi-god origin would have been for her to be the daughter of Athena, and probably leaving the father a mystery. I think this would fit the character a lot better, and would also let her join the orphan club with Clark, and Bruce.

    I guess there's also these also the option of cutting out the gods entirely and having her born through science like it sounds like Morrison will be doing with his Year One comic.

    I'm trying to think of some more options that don't tie as closly to the ones that already exist but at the moment I'm drawing a blank.

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    ArchiZoom

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    @muffin_sangria: Morrison will what? A genetically engineered Wonder Woman, how does that sound to you? It sounds preposterous and incredibly off-putting to me, knowing she's a product of science, one that can be mass-produced plus the lingering notion that a strong female is a creature so peculiar that it cannot occur in nature.

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    CSG_CL

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    I don't really like her having an origin that's left intentionally vague like that. That works for some character like the Joker, or the Phantom Stranger, but I don't think it's right for her. She's always had a definitive origin, and just taking that away for some mystery would seem weird. Starting her off not knowing where she came from but eventually finding out is an interesting way to start things though

    As for alternatives to the two current origins I think there are a few.

    A lot of people seem to hate the idea of clay specific as the medium that was used to create her, but there are a few other options there. She could be carved from ivory, or marble. She could be created out of thin air, or Hippolyta could have her through immaculate conception.

    I've said it before but a great alternative to the demi-god origin would have been for her to be the daughter of Athena, and probably leaving the father a mystery. I think this would fit the character a lot better, and would also let her join the orphan club with Clark, and Bruce.

    I guess there's also these also the option of cutting out the gods entirely and having her born through science like it sounds like Morrison will be doing with his Year One comic.

    I'm trying to think of some more options that don't tie as closly to the ones that already exist but at the moment I'm drawing a blank.

    clay, Ivory, bronze ... it's all the same in the long run ... I don't mind her being born of such a substance, I just didn't like the blessings of the gods as the sole source of her powers that Perez went with ... I prefer her when she trained to become what she was.

    Immaculate conception is almost the same thing as Zeus as her father, just without the sex part and with a Messianic feel to it ... would seem appropriate if there was some good "child of prophecy" stuff added into that too!

    I like the concept of the daughter of Athena, but I don't really love kicking Hippolyta out of her world ... she wouldn't feel like an Amazon anymore and that's one of the most differentiating things about her. She's not an orphan, but she's still a stranger in a strange land and a warrior, I've always seen her as the bridge between SM and BM.

    The whole science thing doesn't mesh well with the character IMO ... she's a magic and mythology based character ... being a lab experiment feels off, but we'll see how they handle it.

    Personally I don't think we need to know all that much beyond she's the daughter of the Queen of the Amazons ... clay birth stories, gods blessings or demi-goddess love child really don't add that much to her in the long run ... ultimately she boils down to Amazon training a connection to the Greek gods and her Lasso and Bracelets. Almost everything beyond that is just filler story, not really critical information, but nice for specific stories.

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    Muffin_Sangria

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    @csg_cl: I agree that it wasn't a great move on Perez's part to do her powers like that. I'd like it if the focus was put more on her training as well, but maybe use something like a divine connection to explain how she pushes these abilities beyond what a normal Amazon can do. Maybe some more mundane blessings from three of the Goddesses. The divine connection would work with the demi-goddess origin as well, and as far as I know there hasn't been anything yet that would directly contradict this. It would be nice if the 52 went in that direction.

    To me that daughter of Athena thing is still the most preferable of the possible demigod origins. She would still be raised by Hippolyta. Although even this I'd prefer as an out of continuity story.

    @archizoom: I said that he won't be using the clay origin, but still won't have a father. I think there was something about Amazonian science as well, but I'm having trouble finding all the interviews. Although he did say that he's not going with the clay origin because he thought it was "creepy" so it wouldn't make much sense for him to make her into some science experiment instead.

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    Malachi_Munroe

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    #6  Edited By Malachi_Munroe

    @muffin_sangria: so Diana is a demigod now? .. i liked the sculpted from clay origin so much .. what if like in JLU Hippolyta and Zeus(Hades) sculpted her together, would you have liked that or do you prefer the new one?

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    CSG_CL

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    @muffin_sangria: I don't love the idea of her not being the daughter of Hippolyte ... That's one of the few constants that no one has ever changed about WW. I've never cared much about how Hippolyte ended up having her, but I do like that the demigoddess thing made her the natural born daughter ... That to me strengthens her bonds to all Amazons and since they have stayed away from exploring any relationship with Zeus or "daddy issues" I prefer it to taking her mother away. But in the end I've never cared all that much about how she was born so much as about how she was raised... Amazon first everything else after that :)

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    Muffin_Sangria

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    @malachi_munroe: Lol where have you been? The new origin is pretty much all anyone talks about on here. Myself not excluded. I preferred the old origin. And in JLU I always assumed Hades was lying.

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    Malachi_Munroe

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    @muffin_sangria: honestly ..i don't venture to far from anything storm,starfire,hawkgirl or vixen related .. but its a bit confusing lmao i also think Hades could've been lying also.

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    CSG_CL

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    @malachi_munroe: I always assumed he was lying too... Trying to get inside Diana's head

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    Spidey_Jackson

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    Daughter of Batman.

    Beata.

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    Malachi_Munroe

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    @csg_cl: whether he was lying or not she shot him down XD

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    CSG_CL

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    kidstandout

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    noting to see here just another redundant origin thread

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    dernman

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    ^^-------Nothing to see here just another useless post that contributes nothing to a thread.

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    kidstandout

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    seriously what about this thread warrants not being discussed in the origins thread already up? mods asleep or something

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    dernman

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    #17  Edited By dernman

    It's specific to coming up with alternatives that work within the mythos for fun. The other is about what you like most and mostly focuses on the two debated origins.

    Still see nothing that contributes from you. Mods still haven't acted which should tell you something. Feel free to flag the thread if you're so confident it should be locked.

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    Netshyster

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    @archizoom: Don't you folks ever get tired of your feminist buzzwords?

    Why is strength always equivalent to brute physicality with you people? If a woman is strong somehow she has to display it physically or it doesn't exist or count.

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    ArchiZoom

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    @netshyster: What's wrong with you. Women's tolerance to pain in childbirth is irrelevant on these boards unless her goal as a superheroine is to crank out the next crop of super babies. You don't see me whining about Wonder Woman not benching a planet but she won't very well defeat a powerful opponent with the strength of her uterus. There's no such thing as a "female strength" in the dcu, men top women in everything.

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    dshipp17

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    Some good alternatives; just say Diana was a child of Hippolyta and one of the sailors who developed her abilities through Amazon training.

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    CSG_CL

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    @dshipp17 said:

    Some good alternatives; just say Diana was a child of Hippolyta and one of the sailors who developed her abilities through Amazon training.

    Is that any better than an affair with Zeus? "Hey Diana, btw, you're the product of mommy raping a sailor then killing him ... good thing you turned out female, otherwise I'd have sold you to Hephaestus for a new sword!"

    Snideness aside, I think her Golden Age (aka original) origin has always been her best one ... given life by the gods, earned her powers through her own hard work.

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    fodigg

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    #22  Edited By fodigg

    If you're going for different, I think the full-on golem approach from this fan-art by Aaron Diaz was pretty interesting.

    No Caption Provided

    The downside, of course, is that undercuts the humanity of a character who for many exists solely to represent the fact that women are also human. You could use that to create an interesting story, but if you make that question a fundamental part of the origin it kinda weakens the message. The question shouldn't have to be asked. So I like the concept, but I wouldn't want them to go with it.

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    MakkyD

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    #23  Edited By MakkyD

    Any origin could be used if written right.

    One I'd suggest would be that Diana was created by the gods as their perfect representative in a modern world. It has a lot of potential (like the demi-goddess origin) and deals with themes like the loss of spirituality in the modern world, examination of modern culture and how Diana deals with her humanity (she was made, not born etc).

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