A New Rogues Gallery (made up of classic villains)

#1 Posted by RideASpaceCowboy (539 posts) - - Show Bio

I've long held the opinion that a large part of Wonder Woman's inability to garner greater acclaim or sales is that she has few, if any, iconic foes, especially in the eyes of the non-comic reading public. My proposal to DC would be to take fairly well known femme fatales (better known, at least, than Cheetah or Circe), and make them the primary antagonists in future Wonder Woman tales. My proposals for specific characters follow, but I am hoping to here additional ideas from all of you as well.

4) Fatality

3) Talia al Ghul and Lady Shiva

2) Isis

1) Granny Goodness and the Female Furies

#2 Posted by TheCannon (19391 posts) - - Show Bio

@RideASpaceCowboy: I like your idea, though I don't care for the villains you listed.

#3 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@RideASpaceCowboy: no, wonder womans villains need to be given prime spots in long running jla stories. She actually has more than a few good ones and some that could do with an update. The problem is the lack of use outside of her own publication. So I agree with your first statement, but making Taliah Al Ghul one of WW villains is absurd as are the rest, when WW villains are even better than the ones you´ve mentioned.

They should set a DC writer who likes her the task of updating her core villains (Ares, Circe, Dr. Psycho, Dr. Poison, Cheetah Veronica Cale) for crossovers with JLA, reusing some of her secondary or newer villains in her own comic that are good like (The Crow Children, Alkyone, The Gorgon sisters and Genocide) and creating a few new bad ass ones, which is what I thought and hoped the New 52 would do.

I don´t like your idea, but good topic. I´d like to know why you think this, and do you think all WW villains are bad. I´d say alot are, but she has some potentially great ones. By the way part of her problem and why she doesn´t have iconic villains is because every time someone starts a run they start making new villains. Unfortunately Loebs and Bryne, the guys who wrote the absolute worst runs ended up being the only guys who actually focused on her villains and give her her own city. But their runs were so terrible everyone after just scrapped everything they did, which I honestly think was a mistake. They should have kept her in her city, estabished a supporting cast, how that cast related to eachother, and finally focused on the villains. That is what New 52 should be doing and it will do wonders for her publication I think.

#4 Posted by RazzaTazz (8968 posts) - - Show Bio

@RideASpaceCowboy: They have done too much to redeem Fatality and Isis is a pretty good heroine as well. I think it would be better to use the ones that they do have already, and ones that they might have forgotten a little about - like Deva.

#5 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@RideASpaceCowboy: no, wonder womans villains need to be given prime spots in long running jla stories. She actually has more than a few good ones and some that could do with an update. The problem is the lack of use outside of her own publication. So I agree with your first statement, but making Taliah Al Ghul one of WW villains is absurd as are the rest, when WW villains are even better than the ones you´ve mentioned.

They should set a DC writer who likes her the task of updating her core villains (Ares, Circe, Dr. Psycho, Dr. Poison, Cheetah Veronica Cale) for crossovers with JLA, reusing some of her secondary or newer villains in her own comic that are good like (The Crow Children, Alkyone, The Gorgon sisters and Genocide) and creating a few new bad ass ones, which is what I thought and hoped the New 52 would do.

I don´t like your idea, but good topic. I´d like to know why you think this, and do you think all WW villains are bad. I´d say alot are, but she has some potentially great ones. By the way part of her problem and why she doesn´t have iconic villains is because every time someone starts a run they start making new villains. Unfortunately Loebs and Bryne, the guys who wrote the absolute worst runs ended up being the only guys who actually focused on her villains and give her her own city. But their runs were so terrible everyone after just scrapped everything they did, which I honestly think was a mistake. They should have kept her in her city, estabished a supporting cast, how that cast related to eachother, and finally focused on the villains. That is what New 52 should be doing and it will do wonders for her publication I think.

agree,and cheetah,ares,circe and silver swan(veronica),dr psycho have much more potential,she doesn't need new villans,her villans need more development and have time on the spotlight outside her title.

#6 Posted by krspaceT (1509 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. Doctor Psycho (Make a victim of the amazons New 52 behavior and the father of my pet idea 'Wonder Boy'
  2. Cheetah (Use New 52 version)
  3. Giganta (Have her be connected to magic)
  4. Genocide (Try to adapt pre New 52 version)

Have Poison Ivy guest star every so often

#7 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

How about we get Giganta, Silver Swan, and Circe back first?

#8 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@krspaceT said:

  1. Doctor Psycho (Make a victim of the amazons New 52 behavior and the father of my pet idea 'Wonder Boy'
  2. Cheetah (Use New 52 version)
  3. Giganta (Have her be connected to magic)
  4. Genocide (Try to adapt pre New 52 version)

Have Poison Ivy guest star every so often

@OutlawRenegade said:

How about we get Giganta, Silver Swan, and Circe back first?

I really like the ones you guys have mentioned and good work was done by Rucka to make them really great villains, so I agree they need to bring those guys back. But the villians I think need to be focused on by writers because I think they´ll fit a general audiences taste, they are original and could work in film and TV more than any of her villains are: Dr. Psycho, Alkyone, Ares, Crow Children, Genocide maybe Veronica Cale, Circe and Dr Poison.

Giganta and Silver Swan are too much like a silver age villain, even their names. Their powers and look are not sufficient to present an interesting threat to WW. its hard for me to think how people who don´t like WW won´t use them as an example of how bad WW´s rogues are. They don´t have that modern gen x coolness about them. Cheetah is the same. And trust me I love Cheetah, I think she´s a fantastic villain, but again if you don´t know much about her she sounds lame and she isn´t really a real match for WW.

Anyway thats my view. But the OP right she needs some new villains as well, about 5 more good ones and I think she´ll be fine as long as they work on the ones we´ve mentioned.

#9 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (799 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been saying for years that I want to see Diana Prince go up against Lady Shiva without the use of her Wonder Woman powers. However I also believe Wonder Woman's standard villains are good enough when written well. If we've just gotta stray off the farm, your list is a good one, but I'd also add Superwoman, Maxima and Knockout as Genocide.

#10 Posted by theOVOXO (94 posts) - - Show Bio

Would love if Big Barda teams up with Diana to slaughter Granny Goodness and the Female Furies.

#11 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (799 posts) - - Show Bio

@theOVOXO said:

Would love if Big Barda teams up with Diana to slaughter Granny Goodness and the Female Furies.

#12 Posted by 4_color_image (220 posts) - - Show Bio

@RideASpaceCowboy said:

I've long held the opinion that a large part of Wonder Woman's inability to garner greater acclaim or sales is that she has few, if any, iconic foes, especially in the eyes of the non-comic reading public.

I disagree. First off Cheetah may be the only 'Icon' Wonder Woman Rouge thanks to the Super Friends, Giganta a close second; though, those who watched Super Friends would not have know she was a Wonder Woman Rogue. Wonder Woman has great villains, the problem is that every writer used the same ones over & over or tries to create the 'Next Big Threat' that is not (Alkyone, The Morrigan & the worst Genocide)! What DC needs to focus on is the Rogues she already has that have potential... Including:

  • Angle Man
  • Baroness von Gunther ('Nazi' Wonder Woman)
  • Minister Freeze & the Blue Snowmen (Cult worshipers of Boreas bent on returning the planet to a new Ice Age)
  • Captain Wonder/ Red Panzer (Male counterpart to von Gunther)
  • Cheetah
  • Circe
  • Crimson Centipede
  • The Crows
  • Cyborgirl
  • Dark Angel
  • Decay
  • Devastation/ Genocide (merged into one character)
  • Doctor Cyber
  • Doctor Poison
  • Doctor Psycho
  • Duke of Deception/ White Magician (AKA The Duke - Master of Disguise & Illusion)
  • Giganta
  • The Mask (Dominatrix/ sadistic man hater following the 'Amazonian' way & feels Diana is a failure to her people)
  • Medusa
  • Queen of Fables
  • Shim'Tar
  • Silver Swan
  • Veronica Cale
#13 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@4_color_image said:

@RideASpaceCowboy said:

I've long held the opinion that a large part of Wonder Woman's inability to garner greater acclaim or sales is that she has few, if any, iconic foes, especially in the eyes of the non-comic reading public.

I disagree. First off Cheetah may be the only 'Icon' Wonder Woman Rouge thanks to the Super Friends, Giganta a close second; though, those who watched Super Friends would not have know she was a Wonder Woman Rogue. Wonder Woman has great villains, the problem is that every writer used the same ones over & over or tries to create the 'Next Big Threat' that is not (Alkyone, The Morrigan & the worst Genocide)! What DC needs to focus on is the Rogues she already has that have potential... Including:

  • Angle Man
  • Baroness von Gunther ('Nazi' Wonder Woman)
  • Minister Freeze & the Blue Snowmen (Cult worshipers of Boreas bent on returning the planet to a new Ice Age)
  • Captain Wonder/ Red Panzer (Male counterpart to von Gunther)
  • Cheetah
  • Circe
  • Crimson Centipede
  • The Crows
  • Cyborgirl
  • Dark Angel
  • Decay
  • Devastation/ Genocide (merged into one character)
  • Doctor Cyber
  • Doctor Poison
  • Doctor Psycho
  • Duke of Deception/ White Magician (AKA The Duke - Master of Disguise & Illusion)
  • Giganta
  • The Mask (Dominatrix/ sadistic man hater following the 'Amazonian' way & feels Diana is a failure to her people)
  • Medusa
  • Queen of Fables
  • Shim'Tar
  • Silver Swan
  • Veronica Cale

some of these guys are useable. alot of them not. The Nazi guys were good villains for the time, but it would be hard to translate them into todays context, although I´d like to see an attempt. Alot of these guys are a bit goofy, but I´ve enboldened the ones I think can be used from a modern readers point of view. where´s Ares?

#14 Posted by 4_color_image (220 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

some of these guys are useable. alot of them not. The Nazi guys were good villains for the time, but it would be hard to translate them into todays context, although I´d like to see an attempt. Alot of these guys are a bit goofy, but I´ve enboldened the ones I think can be used from a modern readers point of view. where´s Ares?

I have never liked Ares as a Wonder Woman Rogue & now he is her Father Figure so I say keep him in that context. The Nazi characters could easily translate in to White Supremacists or some other wacko faction of society. Crimson Centipede could be reinterpreted into a 'The Fly' type mad scientist who turns himself into a human/ insect hybrid monster or again a cult calling themselves the Crimson Centipede kinda like Kobra. I like the idea of Diana taking on various cult groups since she is herself Pagan.

#15 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@RideASpaceCowboy: thats not very fair. fatality is a gl villain. talia and lady shiva is a batman villain.

if wonder woman have to steal some villains, she should only take it from batman.

granny goodness and female furies are all for grabs.

#16 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting thread. I don't know a lot of these rogues but some of them sound cool. Not crazy about new Cheetah turning other people into Cheetahs -- it is kinda like Lobo's cloning. Just too much. For one arc, maybe, then has to be dialed back.

#17 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@4_color_image said:

@jphulk26 said:

some of these guys are useable. alot of them not. The Nazi guys were good villains for the time, but it would be hard to translate them into todays context, although I´d like to see an attempt. Alot of these guys are a bit goofy, but I´ve enboldened the ones I think can be used from a modern readers point of view. where´s Ares?

I have never liked Ares as a Wonder Woman Rogue & now he is her Father Figure so I say keep him in that context. The Nazi characters could easily translate in to White Supremacists or some other wacko faction of society. Crimson Centipede could be reinterpreted into a 'The Fly' type mad scientist who turns himself into a human/ insect hybrid monster or again a cult calling themselves the Crimson Centipede kinda like Kobra. I like the idea of Diana taking on various cult groups since she is herself Pagan.

I´m at a loss to people who say they don´t like Ares. But that in all honesty is irrellevant to me. The reason I picked the ones I did is because I was thinking of the reception of a general audience. Ares is by far the easiest of WW villains that a modern audience could swallow and get behind. The others as they are a bit whacky. Ares is quite easliy modernized and he´s a concept that everyone can get, plus he opposes the very thing that it is WW mission to spread i.e. peace. So, I think any WW fan should see why pushing Ares as one of her main villains at the moment, when her popularity and her legacy is so under threat would get that as an idea. He was a great villain and foil in the animated film, and he just makes more sense to a contemporary audience than Minister Freeze or the Snowman. I mean truly, what is more likely to get people to tune into a TV show of WW? or watch a film? or, pick up a comic? a villain who is the God Of War or a villain called the Snowman. Once she´s established with some villains that are more friendly to modern sensibilities then of course they can start bringing in some of her more colorful rogues.

By the way what comic have you read with these guys as the main villains that you like? just curious: cause I´ve never even read a WW comic with Minister Freeze or The Snowman in it.

Oh, I like your idea about the White Supremacist´s. Like they could make Red Panza the head of a white supremicist group, maybe he was a Nazi scientist brought over to the states after WW2, he was working on some metagene project. While their he figured out how to use the meta-gene to acquire powers including immortality, which has allowed him to live so long. They could develop something out of that and bring in Von Gunther as well.

OH AND THEY NEED TO GIVE HER BACK HER OLD ORIGIN. I HATE THE NEW ONE, ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT ARES BEING A FATHER FIGURE TO HER.

@sethysquare said:

@RideASpaceCowboy: thats not very fair. fatality is a gl villain. talia and lady shiva is a batman villain.

if wonder woman have to steal some villains, she should only take it from batman.

granny goodness and female furies are all for grabs.

She doesn´t have to steal any villains. DC just need to get their act together.

@Joygirl said:

Interesting thread. I don't know a lot of these rogues but some of them sound cool. Not crazy about new Cheetah turning other people into Cheetahs -- it is kinda like Lobo's cloning. Just too much. For one arc, maybe, then has to be dialed back.

I don´t know, I was pretty impressed by Johns use of Cheetah. I hope he develops upon that idea a lot more, because it will finally make her match for WW. Maybe the affect could be temporary, but while they are like that she controls them. It makes her much more of a menace. See what Johns dud with Cheetah, is what the New 52 should be doing with all of WW rogues. Like @4_color_image said WW has a great list of rogues that just need to be given some development and modernized.

#18 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

Since Ares in the New 52 (at the moment) is not as bad as he used to be, I wanna see these villains in WW pages again and soon...

1. Circe and Cheetah together

2. Giganta - with new origin as a titan, permanent size, ripped, and with titan level strength.

3. Egg Fu with amore hi-tech Villainy Inc. - Veronica Cale (leader), Doctor Cyber, Silver Swan, Mayfly, Cyborgirl, Trinity

4. Queen Clea with Shim'Tar, Gudra, Alkyone (Representing the different regions/mythology)

5. Doctor Poison team up with Dr. Psycho

6. Deva

7. Genocide

I wouldn't mind seeing Rampage go toe to toe with Diana as well :)

#19 Edited by 4_color_image (220 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

I´m at a loss to people who say they don´t like Ares. He was a great villain and foil in the animated film, and he just makes more sense to a contemporary audience than Minister Freeze or the Snowman. I mean truly, what is more likely to get people to tune into a TV show of WW? or watch a film? or, pick up a comic? a villain who is the God Of War or a villain called the Snowman. Once she´s established with some villains that are more friendly to modern sensibilities then of course they can start bringing in some of her more colorful rogues.

By the way what comic have you read with these guys as the main villains that you like? just curious: cause I´ve never even read a WW comic with Minister Freeze or The Snowman in it.

OH AND THEY NEED TO GIVE HER BACK HER OLD ORIGIN. I HATE THE NEW ONE, ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT ARES BEING A FATHER FIGURE TO HER.

Hades replaced Ares as the Villain in the animated film, I assume TPTB felt Hades would be a better fit.

I am not saying to re-introduce Minister Freeze & Blue Snowman as they were in the Golden Age but use the names to create a 'Cult of Cold'. Kinda like the way Mister Freeze was used in Justice league: New Frontier. Same thing goes for Crimson Centipede, use the name to create a more iconic villain or group.

I am hoping once Azz leaves the book we discover that his entire run has been the handy work of The Duke of Deception & we get Diana's fatherless origin back!

#20 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Just as Green Lantern has been fighting mostly space villains and earth villains no longer seem strong enough to fight Green Lantern, I expect Wonder Woman to be fighting mostly mythology villains for a while.

#21 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@4_color_image: How was Hades the main villain in the WW animated film? I agree with the rest of what you´re saying, but I think they should work on the villains I mentioned as well. Especially Ares, Alkyone, The Crow Kids and Genocide.

#22 Posted by Goddessa (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: I don't know which animated film that is from. lol

#23 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goddessa said:

@jphulk26: I don't know which animated film that is from. lol

Yeah, I´m unsure as well. I was totally confused by 4colorimage´s comment, hopefully she/he will enlighten us.

#24 Posted by 4_color_image (220 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@4_color_image: How was Hades the main villain in the WW animated film? I agree with the rest of what you´re saying, but I think they should work on the villains I mentioned as well. Especially Ares, Alkyone, The Crow Kids and Genocide.

maybe I am getting my Justice League cartoon mixed up with my Wonder Woman animated film.

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