Why does everybody hate Wonder Man?

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#1 Posted by Loki9876 (3039 posts) - - Show Bio

Title explains it all. I'm no Wonder Man expert at all, but he seemes an okay charachter (I just read avengers childeren's crusade with him).

I mean his powers aren't lame, he isn't a jerk. He was a major member of the west coast avengers.

So why do so many people hate him?

#2 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

His powers are lame, he is a jerk sine Revengers, WC Avengers in itself is a joke.

I like him, but he's reached his potential in the 80s/90s. He's not going to do much more.

#3 Posted by Loki9876 (3039 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: I don't really know much about his character so maybe he is a jerk (he didn't look like one) but why do you find his powers lame?

#4 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@Loki9876: He got Bendis-d. So it may not count. His powers are generic tbh.

#5 Posted by Loki9876 (3039 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: ohhhhhhhh he got bendis-d that might explain it, lol thanks.

It really isn't fair if you got bendis-d.

#6 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

WC Avengers in itself is a joke.

¬_¬

#7 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

Who? B)

#8 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

@ReVamp said:

WC Avengers in itself is a joke.

¬_¬

I'm sorry, I loved it, but Marvel fcked it up as bad as they could have. They eventually ran out of characters to put in it and many characters that were there, people didn't care about.

#9 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34934 posts) - - Show Bio

I like him, the writers don't !

#10 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Uhm, are you kidding? There was a long period where the line-up was like: Hank Pym, Wasp, Iron Man, Wonder Man, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Tigra, the original Human Torch and US Agent. That's like an actual classic line-up.

#11 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

@ReVamp: Uhm, are you kidding? There was a long period where the line-up was like: Hank Pym, Wasp, Iron Man, Wonder Man, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Tigra, the original Human Torch and US Agent. That's like an actual classic line-up.

A lot of tehm are people that weren't popular enough for the Main Team. Instead they should have split popularity. Pym wasn't a Costume at the time IIRC, nobody really cared about Wasp, Wonder Man never had an active fanbase IIRC, Human Torch and US Agent don't need an explanation.

Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Iron Man are the only truly popular members of the team.

#12 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: The way you speak of popularity of characters as if its any indication of quality makes me think you must love Bendis' Avengers. ¬_¬

#13 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

@ReVamp: The way you speak of popularity of characters as if its any indication of quality makes me think you must love Bendis' Avengers. ¬_¬

I absolutely abhor it. I also love West Coast Avengers and was exaggerating for effect in the previous post. I tried to incorporate unbiased review on it and WC Avengers kinda fell short, somewhat like a lot of Marvel properties with potential do. Hell, Avengers was falling short at one point, no idea how Marvel let that happen.

#14 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: well if you look at it in comparison to the main Avengers book at the time......... line-up on the main team was even less "popular": sersi, hercules, black widow, black knight and crystal.

personally i think wc avengers was the better avengers book of that time.

and on topic, during this exact period, wonder man was "Popular" enough to have his own series that lasted 25 issues! although a lot of avengers had on-goings and minis around the time. Quasar had one that lasted 60 issues!

#15 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35: Yeah, I know.

#16 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34934 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Wonder Man so much he stars in my new fan fic. Shameless plug here:  Marvel Genesis: The Champions #1! Marvel really suck at what to do with power houses, see Sentry, Blue Marvel, Hyperion.

#17 Posted by CapFanboy (5366 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said: .

and on topic, during this exact period, purple man was "Popular" enough to have his own series that lasted 25 issues! although a lot of avengers had on-goings and minis around the time. Quasar had one that lasted 60 issues!

Fixed

#18 Edited by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, look at the image you posted. A picture says a thousand words. Wonder Man is a character who is written in a way that the reader is supposed to love to loathe him. Not unlike Quicksilver, Norman Osborn, Eric O' Grady, Johnny Cage, ect.

#19 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

He was pretty annoying during Ms. Marvel's series. He kept trying to make romantic advances on Carol and Carol was like " No!".

#20 Posted by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

They hate him because he stole all their sweet rolls

#21 Posted by primepower53 (5591 posts) - - Show Bio

@CapFanboy said:

@X35 said: .

and on topic, during this exact period, purple man was "Popular" enough to have his own series that lasted 25 issues! although a lot of avengers had on-goings and minis around the time. Quasar had one that lasted 60 issues!

Fixed

LOL #you'llonlygetthisifyou'repartofMarvelGenesis

#22 Posted by WarMachineMarkV (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

- I think it is less hate and more no one takes him seriously anymore

- Simon used to be a near Thor level powerhouse but in the past decade or so he has become a world class jobber where he is pummeled by characters so much weaker than him he is viewed as a joke

- I remember seeing Vindicator beating him in a H2H fight and Green Goblin taking him out with pumpkin bombs, this is sad when he should be able to one-shot both of them blindfolded

#23 Posted by Loki9876 (3039 posts) - - Show Bio

@WarMachineMarkV: So, he should have a proper story that is more respectfull for the character.

#24 Edited by sesquipedalophobe (4763 posts) - - Show Bio

What I basically liked about Wonder Man comic in the nineties was his "I hate my life but it's manageable" attitude. He had a B-grade acting career, he had to jump to his destination at times and he had a lot of snarky mooches. Now I don't know what's going on with him and his powers. His unitard is fairly up to date from tank top to muscle shirt, but I absolutely hate arm bands and gauntlets. He's a mixed bag.

#25 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38789 posts) - - Show Bio
I used to like him.
#26 Posted by Leliel (1452 posts) - - Show Bio

@sesquipedalophobe said:

What I basically liked about Wonder Man comic in the nineties was his "I hate my life but it's manageable" attitude. He had a B-grade acting career, he had to jump to his destination at times and he had a lot of snarky mooches. Now I don't know what's going on with him and his powers. His unitard is fairly up to date from tank top to muscle shirt, but I absolutely hate arm bands and gauntlets. He's a mixed bag.

I think there needs to be some very ground basics on his character, what his personality like, what he dislikes and believes and no more of 'he's gone crazy' or like Scarlet Witch or 're-program' to kill like Wolverine and many others character it poor excuse for the writer to have a character do something they wanted

#27 Posted by funkyfiction (43 posts) - - Show Bio

The only good thing that ever came from Wondy is the Vision.

#28 Posted by geodoc (270 posts) - - Show Bio

Since the original Vision is back, they could start right there. Build a story. Either rediscover life, brotherhood, or bring the Scarletwitch into the picture.

#29 Edited by Satyrix (2 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been a WonderFan since the Black Talon resurrected him - but it's not been easy lately. Simon's real appeal was that he was A Regular Guy. He was a good engineer - but no Tony Stark. He was committed to his family - but they weren't the Fantastic Four. When things in his life came apart, he didn't have Aunt May to console him or Professor X pop up and whisk him off to a private school - he was already a grown up, with people depending on him, and got desperate.

So Zemo turned him into a weapon - one with an expiration date, because while your Average Guy might want revenge right after he loses everything, he'll usually get his emotions under control pretty quickly, something Zemo didn't want happening.

Still, when life puts him in a position to make a difference on the Grand Scale, a Regular Joe often does the right thing... and pays the price for it. Which Simon did.

He was still an average guy years later, when they brought him back - except an indestructable average guy that could bench press the Baxter Building all day without sweating. He stood out because he wasn't a God, Mutant or Monster; his everyman attitude made him the ultimate backboard for the Beast's sense of humor and led to a string of great understatements: "Huh? Oh, I'm fine... all the Blob did was hit me." "This way (the doorway he's blocking) isn't your best choice." "Because it's Wabbit Season."

This made the confrontations where Simon decides to drop the facade of genial, mildly confused flying brick great fun: "No, you won't wear me down. I don't get tired. I don't sleep. I don't eat. I don't age. I can keep this up literally forever. [THUMP - then speaking to unconscious villain] Besides, I'm faster than you are anyway."*

The problem started with Glowing Eyes - shades on or off, it cut his expressiveness. He became a recalcitrant character; he hid, really, both as a character or in-story. Then there were years of clumsy handling, which pushed his persona of an indestructable, superstrong Regular Guy further out of reach... and he became a prick.

I have a theory, though, that when Simon was nearly killed by the Nega-bomb, and his particulate mass was scattered, a doppleganger was created: ever see the carbon outlines of bodies on buildings left by atomic weapons? Something along that line...

Which means that Simon could very well still be out there - probably working on a 2nd string space station, repairing Star Cruiser engines, and working toward a very, very long flight home.

At least that's where my storyboard for him begins. Need to find an artist, though.

*This quote is from memory; I remember it wasn't in an Avengers title, though. Maybe a guest shot or team-up? If anybody knows, please comment: I'd like to get my hands on that issue.

#30 Edited by OmegaHans (209 posts) - - Show Bio

Simon Williams is one of the greatest Avengers of all time, if you don't believe so check your Avengers history he's got the feats, has been on the team through some of the best Avenger stories and deserves his due respect. He's a powerhouse and a movie star and should be written as such. Current writers don't like him nor know how to write him like the older guys back in the day did it seems, and I disagree with the poster who said he was annoying to Ms. Marvel I think they would have made a great couple.

Revengers story was an awful idea that came out of nowhere and should have stayed like that: nowhere, they want us to hate Wonder Man but blindly not consider that he may have had a valid point, especially now come to think of it.

#31 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4165 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmegaHans said:

Revengers story was an awful idea that came out of nowhere and should have stayed like that: nowhere, they want us to hate Wonder Man but blindly not consider that he may have had a valid point, especially now come to think of it.

In all fairness to Marvel it didn't really come out of no where, in the first or second Avengers issue after Siege when Cap asks Simon to join the Avengers he pretty much tells Cap that he is going to be watching them and waiting for them to screw up so he can take the Avengers apart. Now with that being said I am not exactly sure what was going on with the Revengers.. although anything that let's D-Man out is okay in my book. So basically the idea didn't come out of no where, it just came out of a place people don't normally look for them.

#32 Posted by Ralph Slatton (5 posts) - - Show Bio

This may be way off, but I wonder (no pun intended) if it could have anything to do with his name. If you think about it, the name Wonder Woman has been around for a long time. Maybe Wonder Man might place too many associations with a female superhero. I know it's crazy speculation, but there's power in an old trademark.

#33 Edited by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio

He's one of the most generic members of the Avengers their ever was and he whines far too much.He's also one of the weakest and least developed Superman clones.Sentry was better.

Moderator
#34 Posted by CanadianCrusader (10 posts) - - Show Bio

I never understood why people hate him either. He is no means a great character, but he isn't a bad character, he is okay.

#35 Posted by TAneT62 (1071 posts) - - Show Bio

His name ...

#36 Posted by Mutant God (3075 posts) - - Show Bio

Hes half man and no wonder

#37 Posted by Blackxenos (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

I like Wonder Man so much he stars in my new fan fic. Shameless plug here: Marvel Genesis: The Champions #1! Marvel really suck at what to do with power houses, see Sentry, Blue Marvel, Hyperion.

You are on POINT! You nailed a triple out the park with one hand!

#38 Posted by FearTheLiving (4127 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked him in AEMH other than that I really wasn't to aware of his character.

#39 Posted by Blackxenos (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@ Satyrix

I"m with that assessment as well. The first half of your post summed it up. But it is a strong case and I love what you said! What do you think about a reboot, with his classic costume from his first appearance?

#40 Posted by The_Soverighn (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

TOO GENERIC !

#41 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12273 posts) - - Show Bio

@funkyfiction said:

The only good thing that ever came from Wondy is the Vision.

@Mutant God said:

Hes half man and no wonder

@WarMachineMarkV said:

- I think it is less hate and more no one takes him seriously anymore

- Simon used to be a near Thor level powerhouse but in the past decade or so he has become a world class jobber where he is pummeled by characters so much weaker than him he is viewed as a joke

- I remember seeing Vindicator beating him in a H2H fight and Green Goblin taking him out with pumpkin bombs, this is sad when he should be able to one-shot both of them blindfolded

@The_Soverighn said:

TOO GENERIC !

All of these.

#42 Posted by joshmightbe (24689 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Wonder Man, not one of my favorites but he has his moments

#43 Posted by joshmightbe (24689 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get the too generic line, he has a fairly unique origin, at least it was when he first came out back in the 60s, his power source is something their are 2 maybe 3 other characters who share it, I'm not going to say he's a completely unprecedented character or anything but he's far more original than like 90% of Image comics from the 90s and anyone whose a fan of Superboy, Supergirl, Power girl, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Miss Martian, Aqualad, Skarr, Speed, Patriot, US Agent, War Machine, Beta Ray Bill etc, etc really have no room to call Wonder Man unoriginal.

#44 Posted by geodoc (270 posts) - - Show Bio

If his name is the problem, maybe it's time for his upgrade to Hollywood.

#45 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@geodoc said:

If his name is the problem, maybe it's time for his upgrade to Hollywood.

That name is even worse.
Moderator
#46 Posted by Satyrix (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackxenos:

Something like that - the reboot, I mean - but more; working on a storyline (part-time, more lucrative stuff has to be priority) where Simon goes back to his business roots. Here's some dialogue:

[Panel series of Simon and a very apprehensive Iron Man, in flight and having a 'serious talk' at Simon's request]

Simon: "Went to the bank today. Found a lot of money in an old savings account."

Silent panel, Tony obviously uncomfortable. Then:

Tony: "Yep. A lot of money."

Simon: "Len Sampson got me to finally read the settlement agreement. What were you thinking? You had controlling interest and still gave up uncapped royalties, stock reimbursement, payout on splits. Best of all, you had every payment, every freakin' bit channelled to a single Credit Union Savings Deposit account? For over a Decade?"

Tony: "Your brother named that as your Estate Account, so that's what I used."

"Jeez, Tony... it's ... I just... how do you stay rich doing business like this?"

"I got better at it. You know, while we're on the subject - "

Simon: "Oh, here we go..."

"- why do you think I went after Williams Innovations in the first place? My designs changed the game, put all my competition out of business - except you. I cut your sales by over half -"

Simon: "64%"

"- and still you outmanuevered every consultant I hired. Remember the Forbes piece? 'Boardroom Boxer - If Simon Williams were a prizefighter, the boardroom would be his ring.' I wanted your skill for Stark International, but the only way to get it was to make your company *my* company."

"Didn't work."

Tony: "It would have. But you died."

Simon: "That'd be a problem, alright."

Tony: "Then, when you came back... well, you'd changed. No offense, but you'd become a lightweight."

Panel of silence, Tony looking at Simon, who isn't looking back. Then:

Simon: "I'm fifteen years older than you are, Tony. I spent those years fighting to build faster than life could tear me down. That's how normal people do it, but you wouldn't know that. And when super powered genius comes along and they can't compete, they resent it. I did, at least.

So, with the little company my Dad started and my years of experience, my outdated line of kitchen appliances and my two Air Force contracts, I took you on. I couldn't win. I knew that. But. I. Did. Not. Lose.

Of course, then Zemo and the other vicious, superpowered children came along and that was that. Still, when I had a chance at redemption, I took it - and died for it. Because that's what grown-ups do.

#47 Posted by Strman123 (193 posts) - - Show Bio

@geodoc

said:

If his name is the problem, maybe it's time for his upgrade to Hollywood.

That name is even worse.

Lets name him Vance Astro :D

#48 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

@geodoc

said:

If his name is the problem, maybe it's time for his upgrade to Hollywood.

That name is even worse.

Lets name him Vance Astro :D

Name taken LOL.

Moderator
#49 Edited by flazam (2533 posts) - - Show Bio

He should be rebooted

#50 Posted by Lion_Heart22 (444 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't knew he was hated. If he is it's only because they've done nothing but misrepresent his character since the Civil War. I got into Avengers during the Busiek/Perez era and Wonder Man was absolutely awesome in that. I prefer his purple Kirby crackle form they gave him during that time. He is a flying brick but it's his visual that makes him interesting along with the nature and further potential of his ionic powers. He was always one of my favorite avengers and I loathe what they've done with him lately in a half-assed story.

His origins with the Avengers main team, his early West Coast Avengers stuff, his short series and the Busiek Wonder Man are the best renditions of the character. This is a guy who can match Mjolnir with his fists and fight Count Nefaria single-handed. Respect should be given.

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