Wolverines strength

#1 Posted by sxgt (239 posts) - - Show Bio

So in my 1988 King Sized Spider man Annual there is an index as a special feature that shows how the marvel heros rank in strength; Hulk, Thor etc being at the top, spider man in the upper middle and Wolverine was listed with Daredevil and Captain America as having Peak normal human strength for their build.  
 
Wikipedia says he has super human strength and a lot of people seem to think he does as well but I can never remember him being super strong, picking up cars, punching people through walls. 

#2 Posted by sxgt (239 posts) - - Show Bio

OK so i edited the wiki myself to remove super strength and got support from the site when the consulted http://marvel.com/universe/Wolverine

#3 Posted by lectriccolossus (436 posts) - - Show Bio

good on you
#4 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio
@sxgt said:
OK so i edited the wiki myself to remove super strength and got support from the site when the consulted http://marvel.com/universe/Wolverine
Eh...That site is terribly out of date. Still says Warpath can fly. 
 
Wolverine has a level of increased strength as he can lift no more than 2 tons. Which is above human peak. He isn't a Colossus or a Thor but he does have a degree of strength above the capabilities of a human being. 
 
Wolverine knocking someone through a steel wall btw: 
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6172/1005393mr5.jpg
#5 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio

It's power creep. Fans, especially those overly obsessive about battle board type debates, big up their favourite characters. They exaggerate the levels to what they believe they should be. Sometimes (and only sometimes) they'll find some evidence to back themselves up, but usually in those cases they'll take one or two instances where the character has been written more powerful than normally (writers and artists vary the levels and sometimes go over the top for effect or because they don't know the characters as well as they should), and then the character's uberfans latch on to those couple of atypical examples, insisting them to be proof positive that the character is always that powerful. And Wiki sites, where anyone can edit, and where, despite moderation, stuff is going to slip through, are prone to be victims to these uberfans trying to big up their pet characters.
#6 Posted by cattlebattle (12585 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Edited by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle said: 


lol mega outdated ;p
#8 Posted by cattlebattle (12585 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kallarkz said:
@cattlebattle said:
lol mega outdated ;p
I know, I was just posting as it was what he's talking about. I love how the Thing is pretty pissed he's second rate LOL
#9 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kallarkz said:

Wolverine knocking someone through a steel wall btw: 
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6172/1005393mr5.jpg


Which doesn't prove superhuman strength. Iron Fist or Captain America, neither of whom have superhuman strength, can both still hit someone hard enough (Iron Fist without using his Iron Fist) to smash them through a metal door.
#10 Edited by cattlebattle (12585 posts) - - Show Bio
@lokiofmidgaard said:

@Kallarkz said:


Wolverine knocking someone through a steel wall btw: 
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6172/1005393mr5.jpg
Which doesn't prove superhuman strength. Iron Fist or Captain America, neither of whom have superhuman strength, can both still hit someone hard enough (Iron Fist without using his Iron Fist) to smash them through a metal door.
Daredevils lifted a car before (not over his head), his strength is just peak human
#11 Edited by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio
@lokiofmidgaard said:

@Kallarkz said:


Wolverine knocking someone through a steel wall btw: 
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6172/1005393mr5.jpg
Which doesn't prove superhuman strength. Iron Fist or Captain America, neither of whom have superhuman strength, can both still hit someone hard enough (Iron Fist without using his Iron Fist) to smash them through a metal door.
Doesn't Iron Fist have an energy enhanced strike?..if i'm not mistaken. 
#12 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle
Ever seen any of the World's Strongest Men competitions? Really strong people can lift cars - as you say though, Daredevil didn't lift it over his head. There's a big difference between someone straining and pushing themselves to support part of a car while the majority of the weight is still on the ground, and being able to actually lift one clear off the ground. And if Daredevil was depicted doing the latter, and wasn't somehow temporarily boosted above his normal levels, then it's bad writing or bad art, because he's not meant to be that strong.  
 
@Kallarkz: 
I did say "without using his Iron Fist." Yes, Iron Fist does have an energy enhanced strike when he summons the power, but he doesn't use it every time he hits someone. And even without that enhancement, he'd still be able to smash someone flying through a metal door. It's dramatic license, the kind of thing you'd see in an Arnold Schwarzenegger film, and that includes the ones where he is playing just a normal, albeit muscular, human.
#13 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio
@lokiofmidgaard said:
@cattlebattle: Ever seen any of the World's Strongest Men competitions? Really strong people can lift cars - as you say though, Daredevil didn't lift it over his head. There's a big difference between someone straining and pushing themselves to support part of a car while the majority of the weight is still on the ground, and being able to actually lift one clear off the ground. And if Daredevil was depicted doing the latter, and wasn't somehow temporarily boosted above his normal levels, then it's bad writing or bad art, because he's not meant to be that strong.   @Kallarkz: I did say "without using his Iron Fist." Yes, Iron Fist does have an energy enhanced strike when he summons the power, but he doesn't use it every time he hits someone. And even without that enhancement, he'd still be able to smash someone flying through a metal door. It's dramatic license, the kind of thing you'd see in an Arnold Schwarzenegger film, and that includes the ones where he is playing just a normal, albeit muscular, human.
mmmm well i wasn't actually using kicking people through doors as a testament that one had super strength. was just answering part of the ops question with it as he stated he never saw it before.  
This too me however would suggest a superior strength though: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/161/elevatorliftqe9.jpg
#14 Posted by sxgt (239 posts) - - Show Bio

nice, you saved a copy of my scan !

#15 Posted by cattlebattle (12585 posts) - - Show Bio
@lokiofmidgaard said:
@cattlebattle: Ever seen any of the World's Strongest Men competitions? Really strong people can lift cars - as you say though, Daredevil didn't lift it over his head. There's a big difference between someone straining and pushing themselves to support part of a car while the majority of the weight is still on the ground, and being able to actually lift one clear off the ground. And if Daredevil was depicted doing the latter, and wasn't somehow temporarily boosted above his normal levels, then it's bad writing or bad art, because he's not meant to be that strong.   @Kallarkz: I did say "without using his Iron Fist." Yes, Iron Fist does have an energy enhanced strike when he summons the power, but he doesn't use it every time he hits someone. And even without that enhancement, he'd still be able to smash someone flying through a metal door. It's dramatic license, the kind of thing you'd see in an Arnold Schwarzenegger film, and that includes the ones where he is playing just a normal, albeit muscular, human.
No he was straining himself, and I'm aware of men being able to realistically doing this, i was just supporting the "you don't have to be super human to punch someone through a door" debate
#16 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallakz: The elevator shaft does demonstrate a level of above average strength. However, it's clearly not meant to be something he normally does - he's in agony from it, it's clearly him making a truly herculean effort, and it's not clear how long he could continue to hold it. It's the equivalent of Spider-Man lifting the rubble of Doc Ock's base off himself - he's pushing himself way above his normal limits. 
 
@cattlebattle: Sorry, I misread what you said.
#17 Posted by God_Spawn (37346 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine is peak human without the adamantium, with it he has superhuman strength, i do have a bunch of scans of his strength its nothing higher than 2 tons though, just based off feats.

Moderator
#18 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
Wolverine is peak human without the adamantium, with it he has superhuman strength, i do have a bunch of scans of his strength its nothing higher than 2 tons though, just based off feats.

The Adamantium doesn't change his strength level, though it might allow him to support a bit more weight than normal bones could handle, and it, combined with his ability to heal, would allow him to hit opponents harder - he's effectively always wearing knuckledusters and has no fear of injuring his hands, so he doesn't have to hold back with his punches.
#19 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
Wolverine is peak human without the adamantium, with it he has superhuman strength, i do have a bunch of scans of his strength its nothing higher than 2 tons though, just based off feats.
comic narration states wolverine with enhanced or superhuman strength if i recall correctly in his intro page.

 
 
he is as enhanced slight superhuman as Captain America only difference he can push himself slightly more due to his skeleton and HF
 
so if you are going to be editing wiki bio's make sure to go back and fix your mistake and use comic panel statements
#20 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

I would think many Mutants would have slightly above human strength and durability, probably because their mutation would cause an unnatural strain on their bodies so their mutations develop increased strength/durability to accommodate for this.

#21 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

some mutants are born physically superior to the average human as a byproduct of being a mutant, its bn stated more then once some mutants having natural olympic stats as their baseline attributes. that means they could join the Olympics like a regular person goes off to a jog.

#22 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

Handbooks states he has normal level strength.

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#23 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio
"
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#24 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

and panel narration and description says he has enhanced and or superhuman strength in his introduction

#25 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
@god_spawn said:
Wolverine is peak human without the adamantium, with it he has superhuman strength, i do have a bunch of scans of his strength its nothing higher than 2 tons though, just based off feats.
comic narration states wolverine with enhanced or superhuman strength if i recall correctly in his intro page.
  he is as enhanced slight superhuman as Captain America only difference he can push himself slightly more due to his skeleton and HF  so if you are going to be editing wiki bio's make sure to go back and fix your mistake and use comic panel statements
comic panel, showings, statement, narration, and examinations >> handbooks
#26 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
comic panel, showings, statement, narration, and examinations >> handbooks


Not necessarily. I know battle board types like to dismiss handbooks out of hand, insisting that only in panel evidence counts, but where do those people think the handbooks get their information to begin with? Handbooks aren't done in isolation from the comics, just randomly assigning levels. Sure, they can be wrong, but so too can comic panels. The handbooks take into account all the appearances and statements, not just isolated ones - a distillation of ALL the "comic panels, showing, statement, narration and examinations" then additionally balanced for conflicting accounts and run past editorial for arbitration. So if some stories say enhanced, and others say peak level and not enhanced, then it is down to the handbooks to rule which is right. And so Handbooks >> than individual comic panels.
#27 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

if you want the official marvel bio handbook of their characters here you go: 


  logan's profile from OHOTMU master edition entry :


 
 

 


 
 
  Wolverine - Inside the World of the Living Weapon

Hard Cover Wolverine Handbook.

 


#28 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

 it list wolverine with enhanced strength and it is not the only time it states it as such as there are many more where Wolverine is listed as a four which is above peak and places him in superhuman category.
but bio's should never solely  be used for any character especially in debates but requires more then one source each backing one another up especially and preferred panel showings and statements which are automatically canon which bio's are not. but, if you want to use bio's i just provided you with three and the ohotmu supersedes  fesaks lil blurps as it is the official stance and there are more then the one's i posted to counter what you might find and even then all it means is that is all unreliable and again comics supercedes bio's always has always will its why we have the term canon in comics.

 
They have him in the chart as a level 4 which is super human, in the Hulk encyclopedia it states wolverine with superhuman strength, in wolverine the liveing weapon it states he has superhuman strength several times and in the newest wolverine guide to come out forgett the name also stated his has superhuman strength, the master edition states him with enhanced human strength, oh and DC vs Marvel bio states him with super human strength. Not that it matter since comics>>>>any type of hand book
 
 
 
anymore questions? 
 
Captain America(Steve Rogers)  lvl 3 
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4834/130557-125764.jpg

Black Panther prior to the loss of the herb attributes lvl 3
 http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/howlettjames/all-images/108-67742/181863/105-130531/
 
also for cheap laughs:
 
 
superhuman in the DC/Marvel bio stats

#29 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't count that last example, as it's from an unofficial guide book. However, the two handbooks are valid, albeit out of date. Here's the relevant text of his most recent entry: 
 
" His healing factor prevents the Adamantium from interfering with his bones’ normal generation of blood cells, and his reinforced skeleton enables him to withstand heavy physical pressure, giving his muscles sufficient force to briefly lift 800 pounds or more." 
 
So, he is enhanced (peak is 800 lbs. and he can "briefly" lift more than that), though only just above normal human maximum. Enhanced goes from 800 lbs to 2 tons - Wolverine is nearer the bottom end of that than the top.
#30 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

and yet it still puts him at superhuman since it is above peak. = /
 
i think i made my case with the various bio's and the panel showing to support my view using actual evidence along with your argument logic.
 
now if you want to dismiss full history and large majority for the one single bio that is fine but be aware that it will change later with a new bio. i go with the  comics lore feats  and the majority view and evidence from bio's and comics..
 
i also like to say that the X-men handbook also has Wolverine as a 4 for superhuman. another bio supporting his strength. 
again anything above 800 lbs is automatic superhuman and just for your info wolverine has relatively recent feats showing him lifting things in excesses of 800 lbs.
 
also for your bone statements that is not how it works in comics and Wolverine has bn dissected and scanned and guess what scientist said on panel?:
 
 
 
Wolverine possesses Beta Adamantium and is organic like and it does not inhibit his bones in anyway.. you need to start reading wolverine comics and stop getting your information from bio's since writers are not experts on character history  and have even screwed up power lvls like accidently placing 100+ tonners in the 30 ton range and even acknowledging their mistakes.
 It was shown on panel through a full analyzed of Wolverine's samples that the adamantium does not inhibit his bone function in anyway and the doctor wanted wolverine to allow samples of his blood so he could replicate the process to help create new procedures for certain people since it would allow the bones to function normally. the only think that adamantium did to wolverine was that it made his HF treat is as foreign object and attack it redirecting his healing factor and of course the poison thing which popped up later in comics but was later removed by apocalypse in the perfecting of the bonding process.
 
i find you the scan but i am too annoyed to be looking for it after gathering the previous scans.

#31 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

another bio lvl 4 superhuman strength.
 

#32 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:

 it list wolverine with enhanced strength and it is not the only time it states it as such as there are many more where Wolverine is listed as a four which is above peak and places him in superhuman category.  
 
 
4 is above peak, yes, but it's a very wide range, from only just above peak to 2 tons. Wolverine is at the lower end of that. 
 

@castleking said:
but bio's should never solely  be used for any character especially in debates  
 
Agreed. Any more than individual panels.
 
@castleking said:
but requires more then one source each backing one another up especially and preferred panel showings and statements which are automatically canon which bio's are not.  
 
Incorrect on both counts. First, bios are canon. "OFFICIAL" handbook. Second, panel showings and statements are not "automatically canon" - sometimes writers and artists make mistakes, outright contradict established information and so on. In those cases, panel showings and statements are suspect. People make mistakes, be they artists, writers, handbook writers, etc.  
 
 
@castleking said: 
comics supercedes bio's always has always will  
 
Not always. Case in point - Marvel Team-Up #28 depicts Hercules pulling Manhattan by a set of chains. That was later addressed in handbooks, which confirmed that this was an exaggeration by the boastful Hercules, not actually what happened. Official bios can supercede comics, though they rarely choose to do so; more often though, they can be the arbiter of which account is accurate when stories conflict.  
 
@castleking said: 
in the Hulk encyclopedia it states wolverine with superhuman strength,  
 
The unofficial Dorling Kindersley one? Or the Marvel one where the writer, who never wrote another such book before or since, admitted in his foreword that he'd read perhaps a couple of Hulk books in his entire life?
 
@castleking
said: 
in wolverine the liveing weapon it states he has superhuman strength several times and in the newest wolverine guide to come out forgett the name also stated his has superhuman strength,  
 
Since there's no recent Wolverine handbook from Marvel, I assume that comes from an unofficial source, just like Wolverine: The Living Weapon. These bios are not approved or edited by Marvel, unlike the official handbooks, so they carry no authority. 
 
@castleking
said: 
the master edition states him with enhanced human strength, oh and DC vs Marvel bio states him with super human strength. 
 
DC vs Marvel isn't accurate, or, at best, is using the term superhuman very loosely. Master Edition says Enhanced, which I have already said I agree with. 
 
@castleking
said:
Not that it matter since comics>>>>any type of hand book 
 
And again, not always. Again, you act like the handbooks are written in a vacuum, without reference to what actually happens in the comics. That isn't the case - the handbooks are written after referencing EVERY appearance. They take conflicting depictions of how strong the character into account, and have to arbitrate the level most consistently depicted.  

   

#33 Posted by lokiofmidgaard (332 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
and yet it still puts him at superhuman since it is above peak. = /  i think i made my case with the various bio's and the panel showing to support my view using actual evidence along with your argument logic.  
 
The official bios all say enhanced, which backs what I said.  
 
@castleking said: 
now if you want to dismiss full history and large majority for the one single bio that is fine but be aware that it will change later with a new bio. i go with the  comics lore feats  and the majority view and evidence from bio's and comics..  
 
Which is what the handbooks do - they go through all the appearances, they see all the feats, they find the majority view, and they go to editorial for arbitration if there's any uncertainty. They have reached a different conclusion from you, but they have Marvel saying they are right on top of all the gathered evidence. 
 
 
@castleking said:
you need to start reading wolverine comics and stop getting your information from bio's since writers are not experts on character history  
 
The writers of the handbooks are experts. They read every appearance of any character that is getting a bio.  
 
@castleking said: 
and have even screwed up power lvls like accidently placing 100+ tonners in the 30 ton range and even acknowledging their mistakes. 
 
Let's have specifics, rather than vague generalities on that first. As for the latter, yes, the handbook writers do acknowledge when they make mistakes, and they fix said mistakes. That doesn't invalidate all the work they do; if anything it strengthens it, because they are willing to admit when they've made an error, something everyone does from time to time. 
 
#34 Posted by Dakens son (433 posts) - - Show Bio
@sxgt said:
So in my 1988 King Sized Spider man Annual there is an index as a special feature that shows how the marvel heros rank in strength; Hulk, Thor etc being at the top, spider man in the upper middle and Wolverine was listed with Daredevil and Captain America as having Peak normal human strength for their build.   Wikipedia says he has super human strength and a lot of people seem to think he does as well but I can never remember him being super strong, picking up cars, punching people through walls. 
To be honest his strength is not a factor.It's the combination of  practice as a samurai,soldier and weapon that matters,if his bestiality and rage moves him to an other level,that's the question.
I think puting him in a list of super powered heroes is pointless cause you have to include other aspects,
for example I believe Logan is stronger than iron-man,spider-man,daredevil,colosus,ghost rider or beast in feral rage due to the fact that he is unstopable but being calm they can be evenly matched.
#35 Posted by Edgeworth_11 (4656 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle said:
 

If the top grade is 100 tonners, Namor and Colossus need to be higher this is out of whack!

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